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OnBaseMachine
02-26-2007, 07:35 PM
Notes: Hamilton awaits game action
Reds outfielder making up for lost time in Spring Training
By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com

SARASOTA, Fla. -- So far this spring, everything seems to be going well for outfielder Josh Hamilton. But his ultimate baseball test has yet to really begin.

The batting practice strokes have often been impressive. The fielding drills appear to be going well. Not bad for a guy that hasn't played for most of the past four years.

Those factors aren't quite a full barometer to answer the questions weighing highly on everyone's mind at Reds camp this spring:

Can Hamilton still play at a high level? Can the outfielder really break camp on the 25-man roster?

Those answers will start to formulate when the Reds' Grapefruit League schedule starts on Thursday against the Pirates. Hamilton can't wait to see how it goes.

"I'm really excited about games starting up and getting back into game situations," Hamilton said on Monday. "I got a brief glimpse of it last season. It's good to be back, and I know I'll get a lot more games."

The first overall draft pick by the Devil Rays in 1999 as the ultimate five-tool player, Hamilton's story has been well-chronicled. Injuries and suspensions for drug use derailed his once promising career from 2003-2006. The only 15 games he played in that four-year span came at the Class A level last summer.

An early arrival to camp, Hamilton wowed onlookers with some long drives over the fences. The only big-league pitchers the 25-year-old has faced were his own teammates during live BP sessions this spring. Hamilton looked and felt comfortable in the batter's box there, too.

"I actually feel better during the live pitching than the coach's batting practice," Hamilton said. "It's weird. I think I'm more relaxed and just trying to hit line drives in live BP. I'm still trying to tell myself in coach's batting practice to work on things, but it's kind of hard to when the wind is blowing out. You want to see how far you can hit it. That's where inexperience comes in on my part. I just need to watch the veteran guys, see what they're doing and do it."

It won't be unexpected if any rust remaining in Hamilton's swing shows once he encounters the opposition. Reds manager Jerry Narron plans to battle that by giving Hamilton plenty of at-bats.

"I'm looking forward to seeing him play," Narron said. "He's going to play a lot. I'm going to try and speed this thing up as quickly as we can for him and see if he's up for that challenge."

Narron plans to use Hamilton a lot in center field this spring. At one point with Tampa Bay, he reportedly rated better at the position than stars Rocco Baldelli and Carl Crawford. Hamilton can also play both corner spots.

"He was a very good center fielder. He's a very good athlete," Narron said. "His throwing arm is outstanding."

As a Rule 5 Draft pick of the Cubs who was dealt to the Reds in December, Hamilton must remain on the 25-man roster all season or be exposed to waivers. If he clears, he must be offered back to Tampa Bay for $25,000.

That puts the Reds in an intriguing situation. Narron plans on carrying five outfielders and at the moment, already has four of those spots locked up for Ken Griffey Jr., Adam Dunn, Ryan Freel and Jeff Conine. Hamilton is vying against Chris Denorfia, Norris Hopper and Bubba Crosby for consideration at the fifth spot. Narron also didn't rule out carrying a sixth outfielder if Freel was moved to the infield.

Because of his layoff and his past, Hamilton can be considered a long shot to break camp with the Reds. A lot will depend on if the Reds carry 11 or 12 pitchers, two or three catchers and injuries. Not wanting to risk losing someone with Hamilton's ability, Cincinnati will likely give him every opportunity to make the team.

There isn't exactly a long list of players that have returned to baseball from several years away from the game. Those who did were already accomplished players that served in the military at war time. Hamilton, who has never played above Double-A, tries not to burden himself over his long odds.

"If I think about time and that I haven't done this in so long, more than likely I won't be able to do it," he said. "If you talk yourself into something long enough, you believe it and you'll probably do it. I have to put the past behind me and put the time issue behind me. I'll just look at each day and each at-bat as a new at-bat."

Plethora of pitchers: A tentative list of pitchers to be used in Wednesday's 12 p.m. ET intrasquad was revealed by Narron. Bronson Arroyo, Calvin Medlock, Michael Gosling, Kerry Ligtenberg, Phil Dumatrait, Homer Bailey, Brad Salmon and Jon Coutlangus are among those expected to see action.

"That is definitely subject to change," Narron said.

Seen and heard: Reds players were ushered into the press room for photographs and body image shots taken for the 2008 edition of Sony's Major League Baseball video game on Monday. ... New Reds broadcasters Thom Brennaman and Jeff Brantley are scheduled to arrive in Sarasota on Tuesday. ... Reliever Gary Majewski celebrated his 27th birthday on Monday.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070226&content_id=1816891&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

WMR
02-26-2007, 08:18 PM
Jeez, what's the proper analogy for going from A-ball to major league pitching after a 4 year hiatus from baseball?


Even with his once vaulted prospect status, it really is mind-boggling when you think about it.

reds44
02-26-2007, 09:36 PM
That puts the Reds in an intriguing situation. Narron plans on carrying five outfielders and at the moment, already has four of those spots locked up for Ken Griffey Jr., Adam Dunn, Ryan Freel and Jeff Conine. Hamilton is vying against Chris Denorfia, Norris Hopper and Bubba Crosby for consideration at the fifth spot. Narron also didn't rule out carrying a sixth outfielder if Freel was moved to the infield.
WOW, if Hamilton shows anything in Spring Training Denorfia is going to start 2007 in Louisville. That's very odd.

It's going to be interesting to see how Hamilton is used in April if he lites it up in Spring.

Caseyfan21
02-26-2007, 09:54 PM
Narron plans to use Hamilton a lot in center field this spring.

Interesting, hopefully that means Griffey will be in right field.

BRM
02-26-2007, 10:21 PM
Narron plans on carrying five outfielders and at the moment, already has four of those spots locked up for Ken Griffey Jr., Adam Dunn, Ryan Freel and Jeff Conine.

Wow. The Reds actually consider Jeff Conine to be the 4th outfielder. That's scary. Also, if this tidbit is indeed true, Deno is most certainly ticketed for Louisville. His best hope is an injury to one of the four names above or Josh Hamilton. Or a trade obviously.

pedro
02-26-2007, 10:24 PM
Wow. The Reds actually consider Jeff Conine to be the 4th outfielder. That's scary. Also, if this tidbit is indeed true, Deno is most certainly ticketed for Louisville. His best hope is an injury to one of the four names above or Josh Hamilton. Or a trade obviously.

That's just criminal.

BRM
02-26-2007, 10:28 PM
That's just criminal.

No doubt. The Reds should be looking hard at Deno as a starter in CF, not as the 5th outfielder. He should be a lock for this team.

Aronchis
02-26-2007, 10:40 PM
Beware of fluff. This article is one big fluff piece.

dougdirt
02-26-2007, 10:48 PM
If there is any validity to Chris Denorfia having to fight for the 5th outfield spot, Wayne Krivsky and Jerry Narron are officially morons. It is as simple as that.

edabbs44
02-26-2007, 11:04 PM
If there is any validity to Chris Denorfia having to fight for the 5th outfield spot, Wayne Krivsky and Jerry Narron are officially morons. It is as simple as that.

100% accurate. It's almost to the point that you can only laugh. I hope this article is an effort to liven up the papers a bit.

I would say this is a ridiculous thought, but with Narron's history with this guy and last year's roster shenanigans, I'd say we're at about even money.

KronoRed
02-27-2007, 01:20 AM
I'm hoping Deno can get traded to a team that will give him playing time, would be sad for the kid to waste high talent years sitting in AAA waiting for Conine to bomb.

dougdirt
02-27-2007, 01:34 AM
I'm hoping Deno can get traded to a team that will give him playing time, would be sad for the kid to waste high talent years sitting in AAA waiting for Conine to bomb.

I am not sure its possible for Conine to bomb.... he OPS'd last season at the age of 40 to the tune of .724, so Krivsky signs him to a contract. There isnt much more bombing to happen from a 41 year old. The fact that the Reds seriously signed a guy who turns 41 in May to a contract when the season before he OPS'd .724 makes my brain hurt.

Ron Madden
02-27-2007, 03:38 AM
How can Wayne & Jerry preach Pitching and Defense when they lack the ability to identify good pitching and defense when they see it?

Ltlabner
02-27-2007, 07:14 AM
How can Wayne & Jerry preach Pitching and Defense when they lack the ability to identify good pitching and defense when they see it?

Yea, I mean they only brought Arroyo to town and then turn around and locked him up for a reasonable amount of money to extend his time in Cincy. It only gave us a solid 1-2 combo at the front of the rotation for the first time in years.

And they extended Harrang so we'd avoid losing him to FA and did so for what was widely regarded as a "very good deal". I mean, he only was at the top of the league in strike outs and innings pitched last year.

They've only taken a kid glove approach with the most highly regarded pitching prospect in the farm system (and one of the highest ranked in all of baseball) to ensure we'd be able to get the most mileage out of him when he is ready. They didn't draft him, but they only are taking percautions to make sure we protect a valuable asset.

After the horrific defense at SS from Lopez and Clayton, they brought in Gonzo, widely regarded to be very good at defense (not top tier, but very good). So they've improved the position that sees the most percentage of plays on the field from horrific to very good defense.

There's been a lot of chatter about moving Jr to RF this offseason, more so than any other offseason. While it remains a big test to see if they actually move Jr over, that we are even hearing the rumblings of it, and Hamilton is seeing time in CF tells me the odds of it happening are increasing daily.

So yea, you are right. Dispite all of their legtimate mistakes and misteps they've never once shown any ability to identify pitching or defense. Ever.

BRM
02-27-2007, 09:10 AM
Don't get so defensive there Ltlabner. I didn't see the word "never" in Ron Madden's post. ;)

From where I sit, I see exactly one offseason move that has improved the defense. Gonzalez. That's it. Conine doesn't improve the team defense anywhere he plays and he likely downgrades the defense when steps into the OF grass. The simplest, most logical improvement the team can make without making any trades is moving Junior to RF and playing Deno in CF. Hopefully that takes place soon and everyone's worries will be put to bed. However, you'll have to forgive folk's impatience when they keep reading stories claiming Conine is the 4th outfielder and Deno is fighting for a seat on the bench. It seems like a no-brainer move to most of us but every article we read makes us feel like it simply won't happen. It's just got people a little crazy, that's all. :)

Ltlabner
02-27-2007, 09:51 AM
Don't get so defensive there Ltlabner. I didn't see the word "never" in Ron Madden's post. ;)

From where I sit, I see exactly one offseason move that has improved the defense. Gonzalez. That's it. Conine doesn't improve the team defense anywhere he plays and he likely downgrades the defense when steps into the OF grass. The simplest, most logical improvement the team can make without making any trades is moving Junior to RF and playing Deno in CF. Hopefully that takes place soon and everyone's worries will be put to bed. However, you'll have to forgive folk's impatience when they keep reading stories claiming Conine is the 4th outfielder and Deno is fighting for a seat on the bench. It seems like a no-brainer move to most of us but every article we read makes us feel like it simply won't happen. It's just got people a little crazy, that's all. :)

He didn't say 'never' just that they lacked the ability to do it at all. ;) That's why I rattled off a list of moves regarding pitching and defense where they have been able to recoginize them.

I agree totally that the team seems to take 2 steps forward and 1 step back with a lot of moves. Why Deno hasn't really been given a chance? Why Conine is even being talked about in the OF when he should simply be in a 1B platoon with Hatte? Why do they not make it clear Jr is going to RF (although I think that he ultimatley will, but they have to play to his ego)? I agree with you and Ron Madden that there are lots of questions up in the air, some of which I wonder why we're even asking.

Wayne seems to favor putting a lot peices, some good, some bad in a bag and just shaking them up to see what works. That's not the best approach, but it's one that could work assuming you have the right tallent evaluator in a manager. That's where I think the "bring in a bunch of players to give the manager lots of choices" approach in spring training falls apart...our manager.

OnBaseMachine
02-27-2007, 06:29 PM
Hamilton not worried about rust
Suspensions and injuries have limited the Reds outfielder's play since the 2003 season.
Click-2-Listen
By Hal McCoy

Staff Writer

Tuesday, February 27, 2007

SARASOTA, Fla. It isn't true that Josh Hamilton drinks Rust-Oleum for breakfast, but after being out of baseball for three years, it might work.

Ted Williams came back from two wars during which he missed nearly five full seasons and showed no signs of rust. But while Hamilton was considered the best player in the country when the Tampa Bay Devil Rays drafted him in 1999, it is unfair to put him in the same chair with Teddy Ballgame.

Cincinnati Reds manager Jerry Narron is optimistic about Hamilton's comeback and said, "With somebody of ordinary talent, I'd say it wouldn't be possible to come back after being out of the game for three years, but Josh Hamilton is no ordinary talent."

Narron pointed out that before Hamilton disappeared into a drug and alcohol stupor, he was considered ahead of Tampa Bay outfielders Rocco Baldelli and Carl Crawford, budding superstars.

During the first two weeks of spring training, Hamilton has drawn the most oohs and aahs during batting practice against live pitching by making baseballs disappear into trees and onto streets beyond the outfield fences.

With exhibition games beginning this week, Hamilton gets to face opposing pitchers in game situations, and he is poised, cocked and aimed.

"Everybody seemed to worry about me seeing live pitching," said Hamilton. "The main thing I have to realize is that I've had time off, yes, but I can't look at it as a daily thing. I can't remind myself that I've had time off, or that just makes the grind worse. I have to act as if I've been playing the last three years."

Hamilton was suspended by Major League Baseball from February 2004 through half of 2006 and was reinstated June 30. He played 15 games for Class A Hudson Valley.

"I told the guys when I was in New York (Hudson Valley) that I felt better hitting there than I ever did before," he said. "I was calmer in the box, and maybe it was because nobody had any expectations and I didn't have any expectations on myself because I hadn't played for so long.

"Now it is kind of the same way," he added. "And actually, right now I feel better against live pitching than I do against the coaches. It's a reaction thing, and I don't have as much time to think about hitting. The worst thing you can do in baseball is think too much."

As Yogi Berra once said, "You can't think and hit at the same time."

Said Narron of Hamilton, "Defensively, he is a very good outfielder, a very good athlete. His arm is outstanding, and a lot of times Tampa Bay would move him to right field.

"He has great instincts in the outfield, and I'm looking forward to seeing him play," Narron added. "He is going to play a lot (in exhibition games) so we can speed things up for him, see if he is up for that challenge."

http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/reds/2007/02/26/ddn022707reds.html

dsmith421
02-27-2007, 06:41 PM
I just don't understand what Chris Denorfia has to do to get a fair shake from this organization. I really don't.

KronoRed
02-27-2007, 07:44 PM
I just don't understand what Chris Denorfia has to do to get a fair shake from this organization. I really don't.

Be in his 30's or have 5 tools.;)

Ron Madden
02-28-2007, 03:18 AM
I just don't understand what Chris Denorfia has to do to get a fair shake from this organization. I really don't.

This is just my honest and humble opinion how Jerry Narron values talent. He looks at players something like this.......

1. He has done it before, so he can do it again. ( even if he hasn't done it for years)

2. He has never done it before and because he is young and unproven he can't be counted on to ever do it.

If eighther David Ross or Brandon Phillips failed to get off to a good start last season, they would be in the same boat with Chris Denorfia this season.

I'll duck and cover now. ;)

oneupper
02-28-2007, 06:37 AM
I predict Denorfia will be starting in CF on opening day...


for the Florida Marlins.

Falls City Beer
02-28-2007, 09:20 AM
I predict Denorfia will be starting in CF on opening day...


for the Florida Marlins.

Not a bad guess.

But I cringe at the thought of what we'd get in return for him. Talk about trading Denorfia low at this point.

BRM
02-28-2007, 09:53 AM
Not a bad guess.

But I cringe at the thought of what we'd get in return for him. Talk about trading Denorfia low at this point.

A better return would likely be had by trading Freel.

dsmith421
02-28-2007, 11:52 AM
That Conine acquisition is the baseball version of a stale beer fart on a hot day.

BRM
02-28-2007, 11:53 AM
That Conine acquisition is the baseball version of a stale beer fart on a hot day.

:laugh:

Good stuff dsmith!

KronoRed
02-28-2007, 01:29 PM
A better return would likely be had by trading Freel.

Agreed and I'd love to see the Reds move him before anyone else, but he's going nowhere.

Razor Shines
02-28-2007, 04:16 PM
I just don't understand what Chris Denorfia has to do to get a fair shake from this organization. I really don't.

That article didn't say anything about Deno not getting a chance. It was about Hamilton. I know people are talking about the depth chart on reds.com but who puts that up there? Maybe everybody else knows that Narron is the one updating the reds.com depth chart, but I don't. I'm seriously just asking if anyone knows, if it is Narron or the coaching staff then ignore the first part of my post.

oneupper
02-28-2007, 04:54 PM
A better return would likely be had by trading Freel.

The choice is clear. Either Narron and Krivsky give up on their pet project (Hamilton) or they ship an OF somewhere.
Only an injury can defer that decision.

Kind of like the Cody Ross situation last year, where Ross was shipped out so we could keep McQuacko on the roster.

MaineRed
02-28-2007, 05:21 PM
That article didn't say anything about Deno not getting a chance. It was about Hamilton. I know people are talking about the depth chart on reds.com but who puts that up there? Maybe everybody else knows that Narron is the one updating the reds.com depth chart, but I don't. I'm seriously just asking if anyone knows, if it is Narron or the coaching staff then ignore the first part of my post.

I doubt if it is Narron. Just someone's assumption.

dsmith421
02-28-2007, 05:50 PM
That article didn't say anything about Deno not getting a chance.

He's keeping five outfielders. I'm not a rocket scientist, but I know that Dunn, Griffey, Conine and Freel are going to be on the team.

Therefore, it's between Hamilton, who has never had an at-bat over A-ball, and Denorfia, who just hit .350 at AAA.

MaineRed
02-28-2007, 11:10 PM
I am not sure its possible for Conine to bomb.... he OPS'd last season at the age of 40 to the tune of .724, so Krivsky signs him to a contract. There isnt much more bombing to happen from a 41 year old. The fact that the Reds seriously signed a guy who turns 41 in May to a contract when the season before he OPS'd .724 makes my brain hurt.

The guy who you were looking up who "bombed" with that OPS of .724 is Denorfia.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=6431

But I suppose you'll argue that his limited number of at bats was the issue.

Only problem is he had six more ABs than Conine who actually OPSed at .717.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=2443

Here is the funny thing with this argument, Conine and Denorfia were essentially the same player last year with roughly the same number of ABs, though Conine was the much better run producer. The obvious question becomes, how can Deno be so adored while it is a joke to sign Conine?

I could see the anti-Conine sentiment if there was also sentiment that Deno belongs back in AAA if the 2006 Major League numbers are the factor. You can't say Conine bombed last year and then not say the same exact thing about Deno. You just can't.

If you want to bring defense and the CF spot into the discussion that is another thing but I think Conine was signed to pinch hit as much as anything and I don't think Conine will be any factor in whether Deno is our starting CF.

And if he isn't the starting CF or starting somwhere do we want him sitting on the bench? Maybe he has proved all he can at AAA but what does he gain from being the fourth or fifth OF? That is a role for a guy like, oh, I don't know, Jeff Conine. If someone gets hurt, Deno is only a car ride away.

dougdirt
02-28-2007, 11:38 PM
The guy who you were looking up who "bombed" with that OPS of .724 is Denorfia.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=6431

But I suppose you'll argue that his limited number of at bats was the issue.

Only problem is he had six more ABs than Conine who actually OPSed at .717.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=2443

Denorfia had 106 at bats last season. Conine had 489 at bats last season. With that said, Chris Denorfia posted a similar OPS as Conine, with 106 at bats spread across 5 months, while Conine did it with consistant playing time.
Also, what does Conine bring to the other side of the ball? Chris Denorfia is a top notch defender. We cant say that about Jeff Conine.


Here is the funny thing with this argument, Conine and Denorfia were essentially the same player last year with roughly the same number of ABs, though Conine was the much better run producer. The obvious question becomes, how can Deno be so adored while it is a joke to sign Conine?
Again, I dont know what you are looking at, but Conine had nearly 500 at bats last season. As far as run production, that is a team stat in which factors are never comparable between two players. What I do know is that Chris Denorfia was given 1 month where he had more than 30 at bats. He put up a .352/.407/.463 line for an .870 OPS. The fact is that Conine was poor, consistantly all of last year. Chris Denorfia, when given playing time consistantly, in AAA hit .349. When given consistant time in the majors he put up the line I previously stated. I dont expect Denorfia to hit .352 if he is given consistant playing time in the majors, but .300 surely isnt out of the question. The problem I have with signing Conine is that 1, he will be 41 in May and his skills are obviously declining at this age, and 2, they werent that good last year. Oh and 3, there is no reason he should be anywhere near the outfield given the situation we have. If he is going to play, let him be part of a first base platoon.


I could see the anti-Conine sentiment if there was also sentiment that Deno belongs back in AAA if the 2006 Major League numbers are the factor. You can't say Conine bombed last year and then not say the same exact thing about Deno. You just can't.
I can. I already explained it. When given consistant playing time, Chris Denorfia put up great numbers both in Louisville and in Cincinnati. It is when he had 50 at bats spread out over 4 months in Cincinnati that he struggled...


If you want to bring defense and the CF spot into the discussion that is another thing but I think Conine was signed to pinch hit as much as anything and I don't think Conine will be any factor in whether Deno is our starting CF.

And if he isn't the starting CF or starting somwhere do we want him sitting on the bench? Maybe he has proved all he can at AAA but what does he gain from being the fourth or fifth OF? That is a role for a guy like, oh, I don't know, Jeff Conine. If someone gets hurt, Deno is only a car ride away.
I agree that Conine should be used only as a pinch hitter or maybe part of the 1B platoon, but when Narron starts talking about him being the 4th outfielder, it rubs me wrong in so many different ways. While the Reds have a problem in viewing him as a 4th or 5th outfielder, he still at worst is the Reds 4th outfielder, becuase there is no way that Jeff Conine is a better outfield option than Denorfia is... but the Reds are treating him like that is not true.

MaineRed
02-28-2007, 11:46 PM
My bad. I was only looking at his stats with the Phils last year. I didn't see that he also had 2006 numbers with the Os. The 100 ABs came with the Phils. Click on the Conine link and you'll see what I mean.

I probably should know a little more about our 4th OFer, eh?

Nugget
02-28-2007, 11:58 PM
I reiterate what I said earlier but I don't think the issue is Griffey or Conine v Deno but Deno as an everyday player v Freel as an everyday player. I don't think the REDS think they can have both on the same team. That being said they will probably see how it works in ST.

Razor Shines
03-01-2007, 01:18 AM
He's keeping five outfielders. I'm not a rocket scientist, but I know that Dunn, Griffey, Conine and Freel are going to be on the team.

Therefore, it's between Hamilton, who has never had an at-bat over A-ball, and Denorfia, who just hit .350 at AAA.

I still haven't seen where Narron is counting Conine as an outfielder. Narron's quote of "Except Dunn they can all play centerfield" is what makes me believe that he's not counting Conine. And no I don't think he thinks Conine can play centerfield, he's never played a single game there in his career.

KronoRed
03-01-2007, 01:40 AM
If Conine can play CF then Dunn can play SS

BRM
03-01-2007, 09:03 AM
I still haven't seen where Narron is counting Conine as an outfielder. Narron's quote of "Except Dunn they can all play centerfield" is what makes me believe that he's not counting Conine. And no I don't think he thinks Conine can play centerfield, he's never played a single game there in his career.

See Hal's article below. It claims Narron has Conine listed as one of the four.


Cincinnati Reds manager Jerry Narron says four outfield positions are occupied by Ken Griffey Jr., Adam Dunn, Ryan Freel and Jeff Conine, and that at this moment, he leans toward keeping only five outfielders.

That leaves Denorfia to argue with Josh Hamilton, Norris Hopper, Bubba Crosby and a few other outsiders for that one spot.

Highlifeman21
03-01-2007, 09:07 AM
Jeff Conine will be our Opening Day starting RF thanks to Jerry Narron.

Jerry Narron = the gift that keeps on giving....

BRM
03-01-2007, 10:49 AM
Jeff Conine will be our Opening Day starting RF thanks to Jerry Narron.

Jerry Narron = the gift that keeps on giving....

We are an injury to Griffey away from seeing just that I expect.

KronoRed
03-01-2007, 01:28 PM
Freel is to valuble on the bench to start ;)

dsmith421
03-01-2007, 01:30 PM
Freel is to valuble on the bench to start

Denorfia is too valuable to Louisville to be on the Major League roster.

dougdirt
03-01-2007, 02:01 PM
Freel is to valuble on the bench to start ;)

Well there is that....and the fact that there are 3 better options in the ouftield than him in Dunn, Denorfia and Griffey.

TeamSelig
03-01-2007, 02:39 PM
EDIT : Hey, sorry Krono, I just read the quote from the 3rd page, missed the wink smiley.

Too valuable for the bench to start?

Sorry, but that makes NO sense.

What has Denorfia done in the majors or even minors that has showed that he will be a better player than Freel? Nothing. Freel is a good fielder, great base stealer, and most importantly, he has a good OBP. Not to mention, he is our ONLY lead off option. Who would we lead off? Dunn? Hatteberg? I wouldn't count on a rookie to lead off (Deno).

dougdirt
03-01-2007, 02:44 PM
What has Denorfia done in the majors or even minors that has showed that he will be a better player than Freel? Nothing. Freel is a good fielder, great base stealer, and most importantly, he has a good OBP. Not to mention, he is our ONLY lead off option. Who would we lead off? Dunn? Hatteberg? I wouldn't count on a rookie to lead off (Deno).

Well, he has shown that he can stay healthy for an entire season. Freel has never done that. Denorfia in limited time has shown he can hit for a decent average and get on base just as good as Freel. Denorfia is a better fielder. I seriously think this is what Chris Denorfia is: He is Ryan Freel, with more power, a slightly better bat, slightly better defense, can stay healthy and play everyday and without the stolen bases.

KronoRed
03-01-2007, 03:09 PM
EDIT : Hey, sorry Krono, I just read the quote from the 3rd page, missed the wink smiley.


:lol:

No trouble, I believe I was quoting Dan O when they signed Randa to play 3rd and kept Freel on the bench.

Jr's Boy
03-01-2007, 04:15 PM
[QUOTE=dougdirt;1252700]Well, he has shown that he can stay healthy for an entire season. Freel has never done that.


If Deno played with the ''balls to the wall''style of Freel i'm sure he get his share of bumps and bruises as well.

TOBTTReds
03-01-2007, 04:22 PM
What was Hamilton's HR like, anyone?

bomb? oppage? wind-aided?

BRM
03-01-2007, 04:23 PM
Per Rotoworld:


Josh Hamilton hit the last of five Reds home runs Thursday in a 9-7 win over the Pirates.

Adam Dunn, Brandon Phillips, Mark Bellhorn and Jeff Keppinger also went deep, but Hamilton's two-run blast over the 30-foot batter's eye in center field reportedly was the most impressive of the shots. He also had a single in four at-bats.

TOBTTReds
03-01-2007, 05:23 PM
Per Rotoworld:

Thanks

WMR
03-01-2007, 08:35 PM
Did Josh Hamilton just make this team? I'm serious.

KronoRed
03-01-2007, 08:45 PM
Did Josh Hamilton just make this team? I'm serious.

If it takes one game to make it then lets call the rest of ST off ;)

paintmered
03-01-2007, 11:58 PM
If it takes one game to make it then lets call the rest of ST off ;)

If keeps it up, then he makes the team. His Rule 5 draft status only helps his cause because if he gives Narron any reason to stick around, then he stays. His performance today validates his natural talent and potential, but let's not get too carried away after one game.

Let's see how he's hitting after the scouting report gets written. For his sake and the Reds sake, I hope it's as well as today.

Razor Shines
03-02-2007, 12:37 AM
EDIT : Hey, sorry Krono, I just read the quote from the 3rd page, missed the wink smiley.

Too valuable for the bench to start?

Sorry, but that makes NO sense.

What has Denorfia done in the majors or even minors that has showed that he will be a better player than Freel? Nothing. Freel is a good fielder, great base stealer, and most importantly, he has a good OBP. Not to mention, he is our ONLY lead off option. Who would we lead off? Dunn? Hatteberg? I wouldn't count on a rookie to lead off (Deno).

He steals a nice number of bases but let's not call him great. He was picked off something like 10 times last year and caught stealing 11, that's 21 outs after getting on base. And that doesn't mention that there were 3 or 4 times he was thrown out trying to stretch a single into a double, I'm pretty sure atleast one was in the ninth inning of a close game the Reds were losing.

mth123
03-02-2007, 04:04 AM
He steals a nice number of bases but let's not call him great. He was picked off something like 10 times last year and caught stealing 11, that's 21 outs after getting on base. And that doesn't mention that there were 3 or 4 times he was thrown out trying to stretch a single into a double, I'm pretty sure atleast one was in the ninth inning of a close game the Reds were losing.

Absolutely. Freel's baserunning actually is a point in Deno's or Hamiton's favor. The Reds need Manny Acta as manager.