Veterans committee puts no one in the Hall of Fame

[Reds Fanatic]

For the 3rd straight year the Veterans committee elected no one to the Hall of Fame. Ron Santo was closest missing by 5 votes.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2781628


NEW YORK -- The Hall of Fame pitched another shutout.

Ron Santo, Jim Kaat and all the other candidates were left out Tuesday when the Veterans Committee admitted no new members for the third straight election.

Gil Hodges, umpire Doug Harvey and union leader Marvin Miller also fell short of the 62 votes needed for Cooperstown.

Santo came the closest to the required 75 percent -- the former Cubs third baseman was picked on 57 of 82 ballots (70 percent).

Kaat, who was strongly backed by Hall member Mike Schmidt, and Harvey each drew 52 votes. Miller showed a strong increase in getting 51, followed by Hodges with 50 and Tony Oliva at 47.

The vets panel was revamped after charges of cronyism when it elected Bill Mazeroski in 2001. Expanded from 15 members to include all living Hall of Famers, the new committee has voted every other year starting in 2003.

"The process was not designed with the goal to necessarily elect someone," Hall chairman Jane Forbes Clark said.

Cal Ripken Jr. and Tony Gwynn were elected to the Hall by the Baseball Writers' Association of America in January. They will stand alone at the induction ceremonies July 29 in Cooperstown.

The 84 eligible voters on the vets committee included 61 Hall members, 14 broadcasters, eight writers and one holdover from the previous panel.

[bounty37h]

Should be interesting to watch the next couple of years, not many HOF worthy players coming through the next 2 if I recall correctly?

[Heath]

Idiots. How hard is it to have everyone write Gil Hodges and Ron Santo on a freaking card?

Sure Bill Mazeroski was probably more suited for the Hall-of-Very-Good-Players, but to say (and I quote the Madam Hall Chairman here) "The process was not designed with the goal to necessarily elect someone." is asinine. Why meet and waste time and money to get these guys here and not come to a simple conclusion? What message is Bud Selig showing to older fans about their favorite deserving ball players?

Major League Baseball. If it makes sense, it doesn't make sense to us.

[jmcclain19]

Idiots. How hard is it to have everyone write Gil Hodges and Ron Santo on a freaking card?

Sure Bill Mazeroski was probably more suited for the Hall-of-Very-Good-Players, but to say (and I quote the Madam Hall Chairman here) "The process was not designed with the goal to necessarily elect someone." is asinine. Why meet and waste time and money to get these guys here and not come to a simple conclusion? What message is Bud Selig showing to older fans about their favorite deserving ball players?

Major League Baseball. If it makes sense, it doesn't make sense to us.


The whole HOF voting is screwed up and convuluted. The players vote for the GMs, Execs and others? Like any of them really have the slightest idea bout the contributions certain execs & GM had to the game.

And - the fact that blowhard columnists who barely cover baseball have a vote like the Idiot Chicago Sun Times columnist this year who didn't vote for anyone, but excellent baseball writers like John Donovan & Rob Neyer don't because they happen to write for a website is about as messed up a system as there is.

I say get rid of the Veterans Committe votes. Give all the current HOF & writers (a much larger and more qualified pool of writers), Group them all up into one big voting block and give them one shot a year to vote in whomever they choose. Extend the available window by a few years in the begining to even it out.

Then do the same for all the non-players (Umpires, Media, Execs, other) - one shot, one vote for the whole block.

[Yachtzee]

Idiots. How hard is it to have everyone write Gil Hodges and Ron Santo on a freaking card?

Sure Bill Mazeroski was probably more suited for the Hall-of-Very-Good-Players, but to say (and I quote the Madam Hall Chairman here) "The process was not designed with the goal to necessarily elect someone." is asinine. Why meet and waste time and money to get these guys here and not come to a simple conclusion? What message is Bud Selig showing to older fans about their favorite deserving ball players?

Major League Baseball. If it makes sense, it doesn't make sense to us.

Some people view being honored in a museum the equivalent of being granted access to Valhalla by the gods of Asgard. I think the election process on both ends is seriously flawed. I don't think the Vets will elect anyone in, because I suspect many of them believe that in order to get in you should at least be as good as they were if not better. I wonder how many of them are willing to admit that about guys who played after they did.

[Heath]

Some people view being honored in a museum the equivalent of being granted access to Valhalla by the gods of Asgard. I think the election process on both ends is seriously flawed. I don't think the Vets will elect anyone in, because I suspect many of them believe that in order to get in you should at least be as good as they were if not better. I wonder how many of them are willing to admit that about guys who played after they did.

I tend to think the opposite. I think after Maz got in, they got reprimanded like a bunch of kindergarteners because of favoritism. So, I think they got "whipped" to say the least.

[noskill27]

I'm probably the minority, but it doesn't bother me. I don't think Santo or Hodges are Hall of Fame players. If only the writers would follow suit for the regular Hall of Fame elections...

[NoColonBoy]

Actually, I'm shocked that Marvin Miller hasn't gotten more recognition.

Arguably, he has had more influence on the "business" of baseball over the last 35 years than anyone else. Donald Fehr has continued Miller's work, and sure, Miller has gotten mean and bitter since he left his position with the player's union, but without Miller's influence, the business of baseball today would be entirely different.

I can't recall who is on the Veteran's Committee, but I'm betting that it's comprised mainly of pre-Marvin players.

[bounty37h]

I personally dont think a player should be eligible more then one time for election, maybe one more time as verterans comittee. The player is retired, if he doesn't get it one year, what can he do to improve and deserve it another year?
Noone responed to my earlier question, does the newbies election list the next few years have a HOF'er on them?? I saw a list hte other day printed, and dont recall seeing anyone I would consider a true HO'ef.

[Yachtzee]

I tend to think the opposite. I think after Maz got in, they got reprimanded like a bunch of kindergarteners because of favoritism. So, I think they got "whipped" to say the least.

Well, that was when it was still only 15 voters, wasn't it? I think Maz deserved to be in the Hall as a great defensive second baseman, even if his offensive stats weren't quite up to snuff. I think the people who vote get way too sanctimonious about who belongs and who doesn't, but then guys like Bruce Sutter get in (who might deserve induction) and people like Santo and Bert Blyleven sit on the outside. They're voting to honor people in a museum, not electing the next pope. If a guy gets in with lesser stats because he was popular with the writers, fans or other players, who cares? I'm not saying they should get ridiculous with it and vote in 20 guys every year. But I think there should be a rule that if no one reaches the threshold, then the guy with the most votes gets in. I also think that there should be a broader voting base so that non-players who have made significant contributions to the game get considered as well.

[Yachtzee]

I personally dont think a player should be eligible more then one time for election, maybe one more time as verterans comittee. The player is retired, if he doesn't get it one year, what can he do to improve and deserve it another year?
Noone responed to my earlier question, does the newbies election list the next few years have a HOF'er on them?? I saw a list hte other day printed, and dont recall seeing anyone I would consider a true HO'ef.

I think the problem with that style of voting arises from the politics of voting and how it relates to those players on the cusp. I think you'd have a lot more politicking for guys who might find themselves around the cut-off line for votes to ensure they don't get jobbed forever. It would also probably hurt small market players more than big market players.

From the HOF perspective, I think it hurts the HOF to potentially have a year when no one gets elected. The HOF weekend is a big money maker for them. Imagine if they had to cancel for a few years because no one got voted in.

[TheWalls]

As all of Cubs nation continues their perpetual whining (this time about Santo instead of Dusty or Bartman or some other flavor of the day), I do feel bad for guys like Blyleven and Pinson that deserve to get in on their merits and not just some late in life sympathy vote.

[TheWalls]

Sorry, Santo's good not great and is totally playing the sympathy card.

Hodges, Kaat, Pinson and some of the others are simply victims of cronyism. I know that's a shock in baseball.

Personally, I hope Marvin Miller is never granted admission to the HOF let alone membership. He and Selig belong in the same "special" wing.

[PuffyPig]

Idiots. How hard is it to have everyone write Gil Hodges and Ron Santo on a freaking card?

Sure Bill Mazeroski was probably more suited for the Hall-of-Very-Good-Players, but to say (and I quote the Madam Hall Chairman here) "The process was not designed with the goal to necessarily elect someone." is asinine. Why meet and waste time and money to get these guys here and not come to a simple conclusion?

I think they came to a simple conclusion. No one was deserving of admission. You may not agree with that discision, but it was certainly one that the regular HOF voters concurred with.

I agree with the statement. There shouldn't be any pressure that they have to elect anyone.

[Yachtzee]

I honest don't think the Veterans Committee will ever elect a non-player.

[Heath]

I think they came to a simple conclusion. No one was deserving of admission. You may not agree with that discision, but it was certainly one that the regular HOF voters concurred with.

I agree with the statement. There shouldn't be any pressure that they have to elect anyone.

I look at the Football HOF - look at the players they are inviting. Look at the spectacle they do with the festival atmosphere. Look at the game they play at the same time. This is more than recognizing one's achievement - this is a time of reflection. I think that reflection that is given resonates throughout the fans of that particular sport. It gives older people to share history. It gives sports historians the opportunity to bridge generation gaps. That's done in football. Every Year.

Baseball is still holding on to Cooperstown NY as an ideological metaphor of "open the doors". There's no marketing, no game that weekend, nothing. You can walk the streets and watch the ceremonies. There's nothing that brings the past to make it relevant to the future.

The bridge is widening and the time is short. Having one of those men in the HOF will not "lower the standards".

[Heath]

not needed any more

[vance]

May I make a case for Santo?


Right now the HOF lists 13 players that have been inducted primarily as 3B. Three of those were inducted from the Negro Leagues.

If Santo were added to the other ten, there would be eleven third basemen in the HOF. So, how would he rank among these other greats? In other words, I wanted to answer the question if Santo would lower the quality of player in the HOF.

Here's what I came up with.

Santo's 342 homeruns would rank him third among HOF thirdbasemen behind only 500 HR club members Mike Schmidt and Eddie Matthews.

Santo's 1331 RBI would rank him fourth among the current HOF third sackers.

His .277 BA might be one of the knocks on him as six of the ten HOF third basemen have hit over 300. However, there still would be four HOF thirdbasemen with lower batting averages.

Santo has five Gold Gloves. Only two HOF thirdbasemen (Schmidt and Robinson) have more, and six have none.

Santo's 954 Fielding % ranks him at sixth would be middle of the pack.

Santo scored 1138 runs which places him in the middle of the pack at fifth.

His 362 OBP would rank him sixth and his 464 SLG would rank him fourth.

Finally, his OPS+ of 125 would rank him fifth and his 324 Win Shares would rank him at five as well.

There's not a single category that would rank him in the lower third. Most metrics place him squarely in the middle of the pack among HOF thirdbasemen.

I don't think there should be a doubt he belongs.

[George Anderson]

Santo has five Gold Gloves. Only two HOF thirdbasemen (Schmidt and Robinson) have more, and six have none.






The six who do not have Gold Gloves either played in the Negro Leagues or played before the Gold Gloves award existed.