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View Full Version : Where do you honestly see Chris Denorfia on the Reds' Depth Chart?



Highlifeman21
02-28-2007, 09:21 AM
Snowballing from discussions concerning Josh Hamilton, Jeff Conine, Norris Hopper and Chris Denorfia, I'm curious to see where the RedsZone faithful view the worth of Chris Denorfia to the Reds.

Highlifeman21
02-28-2007, 09:28 AM
I went with 2nd overall as Denorfia is our best defensive option, and that helps close the gap that might exist offensively between him and Griffey.

Dunn is clearly the best option.

Krusty
02-28-2007, 09:36 AM
Chris Denorfia will be the starting outfielder at least three times a week.

One thing about Freel is the more you play him, the more he wears down. His performance in August and September showed that. Freel is at his best when he starts about three games a week. His reckless abandon in the field catches up to him and needs occasional rest.

And speaking of rest, you figure either Denorfia or Freel will spell Griffey a day or two each week. So Denorfia will get his playing time unless he flops in spring training and the Reds are forced to use Hamilton more than they like.

Joseph
02-28-2007, 09:37 AM
He's jersey #27 this season, or so I've heard. Just saying....

BRM
02-28-2007, 09:41 AM
Chris Denorfia will be the starting outfielder at least three times a week.


He should start nearly every day, at least at the beginning of the season but I'd settle for 3 days a week. However, I'm not convinced he'll even be on the opening day roster at this point.

M2
02-28-2007, 10:38 AM
If it were up to me, he'd be the everyday CF and have until the All-Star break to prove himself. Given Jr.'s consistent injury problems (not his fault, but he's guaranteed to miss at least 30 games) I picked Denorfia for #2 overall.

Reds1
02-28-2007, 10:45 AM
That's hard to answer. Do we count Conine as an OF? I'm assuming we are Freel after the reports I see. The thing is he might be 6th, but say Scott H and Phillips were injured then Conine goes to 1st and Freel to 2nd and then he would move up dramatically. Then Griffey goes down and he's playing daily. I think he gets a fair shake, but if he has options he may not even make the squad. A lot depends on Hamilton which I am very curious to see. If he can play defense and has some speed his power and the fact he has to make the team may tie the Reds hands. Gonig to be fun!

I just saw the poll results. 3rd! I don't believe he is. I have in this order right now.
Griffey
Dunn
Freel
Conine
Hamilton
Deno - yes, I'm the guy who has him sixth.

I'm going by interviews I've seen with Narron and the fact I think Hamilton gets a shot with Deno havng options. Just my thoughts. I may be wrong, but I'm trying to be honest.

Danny Serafini
02-28-2007, 10:54 AM
I don't see putting him ahead of Dunn, Griffey or Freel. To me he's a solid #4 right now. I also see Conine primarily as a 1B as opposed to an outfielder, so I don't have the same concern as others that Conine being on the roster means Denorfia is off it.

dougdirt
02-28-2007, 10:59 AM
Adam Dunn - LF
Chris Denorfia - CF/RF
Ken Griffey Jr - RF/CF
Ryan Freel - Everywhere
Josh Hamilton - Everywhere
Jeff Conine - Corners. only behind Hamilton becuase I have no faith in either to hit much, but Hamilton I give the defensive edge by far.

Always Red
02-28-2007, 11:46 AM
That's hard to answer. Do we count Conine as an OF? I'm assuming we are Freel after the reports I see. The thing is he might be 6th, but say Scott H and Phillips were injured then Conine goes to 1st and Freel to 2nd and then he would move up dramatically. Then Griffey goes down and he's playing daily. I think he gets a fair shake, but if he has options he may not even make the squad. A lot depends on Hamilton which I am very curious to see. If he can play defense and has some speed his power and the fact he has to make the team may tie the Reds hands. Gonig to be fun!

I just saw the poll results. 3rd! I don't believe he is. I have in this order right now.
Griffey
Dunn
Freel
Conine
Hamilton
Deno - yes, I'm the guy who has him sixth.

I'm going by interviews I've seen with Narron and the fact I think Hamilton gets a shot with Deno havng options. Just my thoughts. I may be wrong, but I'm trying to be honest.


I agree with you that the list you have there is where Narron and the FO have rated Denorfia.

On my team, I'd start him everyday in CF, at least until the middle of June, and give him a chance. He's earned it, and he's the best defensive OF we have. If he doesn't produce by mid-June, fine, move him on.

I ranked him 3rd, ahead of Freel. On my Reds team (if I'm the GM), Freel is a 3-4 day a week player, not a starter. So I'd rank him 4th, with Dunn and Junior first and 2nd.

For a team that has preached defense non stop in the offseason, the apparent demotion of Denorfia, at least by the FO in the press, is puzzling at best.

NC Reds
02-28-2007, 12:50 PM
Deno should start in center. Hamilton has done nothing in his pro career to be placed ahead of Deno. Griffey needs to settle into RF or his future spot, first base.

dsmith421
02-28-2007, 01:03 PM
Hamilton has done nothing in his pro career to be placed ahead of Deno.

Exactly. I'm as fascinated by Hamilton's incredible natural gifts as anyone else, and certainly advocate keeping him around.

However, Denorfia has pretty much done everything right for this organization in his career. At 26, he deserves a full and fair shot to be the starting CFer.

Even if it takes Hamilton all season to get up-to-speed in hitting major league pitching, in my view he can still contribute in important ways--as a defensive replacement for Dunn and Griffey, as a pinch-runner, etc. It's not like not having that 7th awful relief pitcher or 3rd hopeless catcher is going to kill the Reds' chances.

If anyone should go, it's Conine, who chances are will be completely worthless this year.

KronoRed
02-28-2007, 01:28 PM
Number 3, I guess loyalty keeps JR in 2nd for me, but Deno is certainly 100% better then the rest at this point

WMR
02-28-2007, 04:30 PM
Whoops, I misread the question, I was rating him as a CF'er. Overall, yeah I'd rate him #3 like Krono, still have to stay loyal to Jr. and Dunn is clearly more "valuable" overall. As far as CF options go, however, he's my #1.

reds44
02-28-2007, 04:32 PM
Deno should start in center. Hamilton has done nothing in his pro career to be placed ahead of Deno. Griffey needs to settle into RF or his future spot, first base.
That doesn't mean he won't be ahead of him. If Narron really does have 4 of his 5 OF's locked in, if Hamilton shows anything in Spring Denorfia will start in AAA.

I'm not saying I agree with that, but that's what it is going to be.

oneupper
02-28-2007, 05:18 PM
I don't understand the question. Is it where we think he is right now, or where we think he should be?

I think he's 6th
I think he should be 3rd (after Dunn and Griffey).

camisadelgolf
02-28-2007, 05:46 PM
Switch Griffey and Dunn, I have the same as Reds1. I think Dunn is obviously number one, followed by Griffey, and Freel. I'd put Conine at fourth because you can probably count on him for solid, Aurilia-like numbers. Fifth, I had Hamilton for potential alone, and in a close sixth, I'd go with Denorfia, who at best, will be a Brady Clark clone.

buckeyenut
03-01-2007, 06:19 AM
With this team, I don't want to see Conine get a single start in the OF. I want to see Dunn in LF, Denorfia in CF and Jr in RF every day, with Freel spelling all three, along with Phillips and EE. I want Hamilton to get a start when we need another backup. I want Conine to be the 1B platoon guy and emergency OF only. If someone gets hurt for a few days, Conine can help out in the OF. But if someone is out for a while, bring up another OF like Hopper or Crosby and let Conine stay at 1B.

mth123
03-01-2007, 06:42 AM
With this team, I don't want to see Conine get a single start in the OF. I want to see Dunn in LF, Denorfia in CF and Jr in RF every day, with Freel spelling all three, along with Phillips and EE. I want Hamilton to get a start when we need another backup. I want Conine to be the 1B platoon guy and emergency OF only. If someone gets hurt for a few days, Conine can help out in the OF. But if someone is out for a while, bring up another OF like Hopper or Crosby and let Conine stay at 1B.

Exactly how I see it.

Caveat Emperor
03-01-2007, 07:52 AM
He should be #3 on the depth chart, starting CF with Griffey in right and Dunn in left. If they're serious about defense on this team, then they cannot in good faith trot Griffey out to center - ever.

Freel should get 3-4 starts per week, replacing Denorfia 1 time per week, Griffey 1 time per week, Phillips 1 time per 2 weeks, Gonzalez 1 time per 2 weeks (switching Phillips to SS), Encarnacion 1 time per 2 weeks, Dunn 1 time per 2 weeks.

That kind of rotation would get Freel enough ABs without having him wear down, not disrupt the everyday players to any great extent, and keep the defense on this team at respectable level. Plus, I think the time off would do wonders to keep Griffey healthy and productive over the long haul of the season.

Strikes Out Looking
03-01-2007, 08:17 AM
If Griffey and Freel and Dunn are healthy --big if-- they are the top 3--for offensive and defensive reasons together. I put Deno 4th--and if history is correct--that means he starts 80-100 games.

Highlifeman21
03-01-2007, 08:59 AM
As of right now, only 71.1% voters of this poll think that Denorfia is within the Reds' top 4 on the OF Depth Chart.

What do the other 28.9% of you really see or not see in this kid?

Why does the Reds' FO seem to agree with that 28.9%?

dfs
03-01-2007, 10:08 AM
As of right now, only 71.1% voters of this poll think that Denorfia is within the Reds' top 4 on the OF Depth Chart.

What do the other 28.9% of you really see or not see in this kid?

I guess I would be interested in who that 30% think is the better outfielder. I can see Dunn, Junior and Freel, but.....who are you gonna put above this kid?

Bubba Crosby? I thought I was one of the biggest fan of the Crosby pickup and I'm sure I would rather have deno on the roster than Bubba.

Josh Hamilton? Really? Site unseen y'all are willing to drink that coolaid? Scouts say and do all kinds of funny things about atheletes. If he hasn't hit above AA don't you want more?

Jeff Conine? ....I can't believe that fans who moan about Adam Dunn's outfield play would be willing to watch Jeff Conine take the field.

I'm honestly puzzled how anyone can put deno worse than fourth.

BRM
03-01-2007, 10:48 AM
As of right now, only 71.1% voters of this poll think that Denorfia is within the Reds' top 4 on the OF Depth Chart.

What do the other 28.9% of you really see or not see in this kid?

Why does the Reds' FO seem to agree with that 28.9%?

I think most people voted where they think the Reds have him on the depth chart. If you were to ask everyone where Deno is on their own personal depth chart, I think he'd rank higher.

TeamSelig
03-01-2007, 11:15 AM
4th OF not sure how you could rate him any higher.

Dunn, Griffey, Freel

I'd give Deno about 150 ABs in for Griffey's spot, and about 100 ABs for Freels. Leaving Grif with about 400 ABs and Freel with about 450 ABs.

That's 250 ABs, barring any major injuries.

RBA
03-01-2007, 12:00 PM
I'm not on the Deno bandwagon. He was less than average when he came up last year and lucky for him the other teams expanded their rosters in September as he feasted off Triple AAA pitching at MLB games to bring his batting stats up.

BRM
03-01-2007, 12:17 PM
I'm not on the Deno bandwagon. He was less than average when he came up last year and lucky for him the other teams expanded their rosters in September as he feasted off Triple AAA pitching at MLB games to bring his batting stats up.

List of Reds who hit well against AAA pitching last September:

Norris Hopper - .914 OPS
Rich Aurilia - .897 OPS
Chris Denorfia - .870 OPS

Valentin hit well too but he only had 26 at-bats. Everyone else had lots of trouble with the supposed AAA pitching they faced. Phillips, EE, Dunn, Freel, Ross, and Hat all OPS'ed well below .700.

Highlifeman21
03-01-2007, 04:00 PM
I think most people voted where they think the Reds have him on the depth chart. If you were to ask everyone where Deno is on their own personal depth chart, I think he'd rank higher.

That's the question I asked, but maybe I phrased it incorrectly.

From the results, it does seem that a strong contingent deem Denorfia to be lucky to make our 25 man roster.

BRM
03-01-2007, 04:03 PM
That's the question I asked, but maybe I phrased it incorrectly.

From the results, it does seem that a strong contingent deem Denorfia to be lucky to make our 25 man roster.

That's how I interpreted your question but I think alot of other folks didn't. Just a guess on my part, I don't really know.

M2
03-01-2007, 04:26 PM
From the results, it does seem that a strong contingent deem Denorfia to be lucky to make our 25 man roster.

9 out of 102 is a strong contingent?

I assume the Reds will have at least 5 OFs come opening day.

BRM
03-01-2007, 04:27 PM
I assume the Reds will have at least 5 OFs come opening day.

The big question is will Conine will be counted as one of the five. If not, Deno and Hamilton both make the squad.

Highlifeman21
03-01-2007, 11:03 PM
9 out of 102 is a strong contingent?

I assume the Reds will have at least 5 OFs come opening day.

The 22 people having him 5th also concern me greatly.

3rd I can almost see.

4th, if I close my eyes, maybe.

Anything lower is criminal.

Ron Madden
03-02-2007, 02:40 AM
If it were up to me, he'd be the everyday CF and have until the All-Star break to prove himself. Given Jr.'s consistent injury problems (not his fault, but he's guaranteed to miss at least 30 games) I picked Denorfia for #2 overall.

I Agree that Deno should be the everyday CF untill at least July, give him a fair chance to prove himself. I voted Deno #3 overall, maybe because it's spring and my hope to see Dunn, Deno and KGJ start at least 140 games together. :pray:

Ron Madden
03-02-2007, 02:49 AM
With this team, I don't want to see Conine get a single start in the OF. I want to see Dunn in LF, Denorfia in CF and Jr in RF every day, with Freel spelling all three, along with Phillips and EE. I want Hamilton to get a start when we need another backup. I want Conine to be the 1B platoon guy and emergency OF only. If someone gets hurt for a few days, Conine can help out in the OF. But if someone is out for a while, bring up another OF like Hopper or Crosby and let Conine stay at 1B.

Ditto.

RANDY IN INDY
03-02-2007, 08:22 AM
Denorfia, like it or not, has a lot to prove. He may or may not get that chance, on a regular basis, with the Reds. I'd like to be convinced that he is as good as a lot of you folks think he is. I am not there, yet.

edabbs44
03-02-2007, 08:52 AM
Denorfia, like it or not, has a lot to prove. He may or may not get that chance, on a regular basis, with the Reds. I'd like to be convinced that he is as good as a lot of you folks think he is. I am not there, yet.

I'd like to see him get a legitimate chance. There's a better chance of him being in Cincy when they could be a perennial contender than Conine or even Griffey.

Let him prove that he doesn't belong. At worst, he'll upgrade the defense in CF. At best, he's an above average #2 hitter.

Danny Serafini
03-02-2007, 10:04 AM
I'd like to know why the outliers voted the way they did. If you put him 1st or 7th, why?

dsmith421
03-02-2007, 12:08 PM
Denorfia, like it or not, has a lot to prove. He may or may not get that chance, on a regular basis, with the Reds. I'd like to be convinced that he is as good as a lot of you folks think he is. I am not there, yet.

Since clearly minor league performance is worthless in convincing the powers that be that Denorfia can play at this level, I don't see any point to him returning to Louisville. He could hit .400 with 80 HR and people would still say "he hasn't done it at the major league level."

So let's say he does make the roster. What's his role going to be? Defensive caddy for Griffey, most likely, pinch running, occasional garbage time ABs only after Conine, get-away day starts. That's a damned tough starting point to try to convince your coaches and fans that you can deliver in key situations.

So where I'm coming from is this: unless Denorfia is either a) the starting CFer and gets a good run in the team, or b) there are a lot of injuries and Narron doesn't automatically stick Jeff Conine's corpse in the corner OF positions, he's NEVER going to get a legitimate shot in this organization.*

And, as I've said before, I've got a decent premonition that Denorfia will go on to have a nice, Brady Clark-style career. The Reds from 2009-11 could really use a high-on-base, good fielding outfielder, why not develop one you've got instead of spending scarce talent and money resources on an outside fix?

* And, for what it's worth, I don't give a damn if Griffey "approves" of Denorfia taking over CF. If it's true that Denorfia has to convince KG before a move takes place, then I would encourage Messrs. Narron and Krivsky to grow some testicles and remind him the difference between boss and employee.

RANDY IN INDY
03-02-2007, 01:56 PM
And, as I've said before, I've got a decent premonition that Denorfia will go on to have a nice, Brady Clark-style career.

How much are prmonitions going for these days?;)

Seriously, if Narron and Krivsky thing Denorfia is going to be the best option at centerfield for the Cincinnati Reds this season, he will be the centerfielder, but there are tons of guys who were good in AAA that never cut it at the major league level. Denorfia, may or may not be one of those guys. He is definitely a late bloomer when it comes to his age.

dsmith421
03-02-2007, 02:02 PM
Seriously, if Narron and Krivsky thing Denorfia is going to be the best option at centerfield for the Cincinnati Reds this season, he will be the centerfielder, but there are tons of guys who were good in AAA that never cut it at the major league level. Denorfia, may or may not be one of those guys. He is definitely a late bloomer when it comes to his age.

I absolutely agree. However, even at 26 it's rare to see a player with Denorfia's minor league results. I'm not advocating handing him a job, but I'd sure like to see what we've got here without putting him in a position where he's likely to fail.

BRM
03-02-2007, 02:04 PM
I absolutely agree. However, even at 26 it's rare to see a player with Denorfia's minor league results. I'm not advocating handing him a job, but I'd sure like to see what we've got here without putting him in a position where he's likely to fail.

Honestly, the only way to found out what they've got is to play him in CF every day for two or three months. Giving him 6 or 8 at-bats a week spelling Freel and Junior won't tell you anything about the guy.

RANDY IN INDY
03-02-2007, 02:48 PM
There are a lot of guys who would love to have the luxury of playing every day for two or three months, but a lot of 'em never get the chance. To tell you the truth, I really would like to see what the guy can do.