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Ltlabner
02-28-2007, 09:07 PM
Now that spring training is upon us I need to knock the rust off and come up with some new thread ideas. To that end I give you.....

I am a big proponent of team chemistry. While it gets poo-pooed I think there is value in that undefinable and unmeasurable X factor that comes from people who jell together.

That said, there have been plenty of teams with teamates that hated each others guts, or at the least weren't big buddies off the field. IIRC Rose and Bench weren't too keen for each other but they found a way to make it work.

With that preamble, what teams have had the worst "team chemistry" but somehow found a way to succeed on the baseball field?

Alternativley, what players on the same team have had the most public or well-known fueds?

mth123
02-28-2007, 09:11 PM
Now that spring training is upon us I need to knock the rust off and come up with some new thread ideas. To that end I give you.....

I am a big proponent of team chemistry. While it gets poo-pooed I think there is value in that undefinable and unmeasurable X factor that comes from people who jell together.

That said, there have been plenty of teams with teamates that hated each others guts, or at the least weren't big buddies off the field. IIRC Rose and Bench weren't too keen for each other but they found a way to make it work.

With that preamble, what teams have had the worst "team chemistry" but somehow found a way to succeed on the baseball field?

Alternativley, what players on the same team have had the most public or well-known fueds?

The A's of the early 70s had a rep for bad chemistry. I can't recall any specifc player issues. Charlie Finley seemed to stir the pot.

thatcoolguy_22
03-01-2007, 03:25 AM
Jeter and Arod

RedFanAlways1966
03-01-2007, 09:00 AM
A few teammate feuds from good teams... other than the well known B*a*r*r*y vs. Jeff Kent feud from the 2002 Giants NL championship team.

Joe Tinker vs. Johnny Evers
Part of the infamous double play trio... Tinkers to Evers to Chance. Won two World Series titles while both playing with the Cubs (tells ya how long ago this was!). Perhaps the greatest legend surrounding the Cubs teams of that era is the intense personal animosity betwen Tinker and Evers. The double-play combo, teammates from 1902-1913, didn't talk to each for 33 years beginning in 1905 after the two argued over a cab fare and later fought on the field. Tinker was naturally reticent, but Evers was a difficult personality, antagonizing many teammates and opponents through the years. Evers: "Tinker and myself hated each other, but we loved the Cubs. We wouldn't fight for each other, but we'd come close to killing people for our team". The provocation has never been satisfactorily explained, there are differing stories. The state of their relationship became publicly clear on September 13, 1905, when the two came to blows on the field during an exhibition game in Indiana. The intensity lessened with time, but the two men were not fully reconciled for many years.

Don Sutton vs. Steve Garvey
Sutton and Garvey shared the Dodger clubhouse between 1969 and 1980, and even had lockers next to each other, but there was no love lost between them. Their feud came to a head during the 1978 season. Sutton, in a Washington Post article, was quoted as saying, "All you hear about on our team is Steve Garvey the All-American boy. But Reggie Smith was the real MVP. We all know it ... (Smith) has carried us the last two years. He is not a facade. He does not have the Madison Avenue image." Garvey's good-boy image finally got to Sutton in their infamous clubhouse brawl. This irked Garvey, who confronted Sutton, asking if the quotes were accurate. Sutton said they were. Then, according to wire reports, "Suddenly Sutton leaped at Garvey and flung him against a row of lockers along the opposite wall. The two players went down heavily and were clawing at one another, trying ineffectively to land punches." When the two were finally separated, Garvey, cut and scratched on the face, was dazed. Sutton had a bruised cheek. Garvey wasn't well-liked by many Dodgers, and apparently Sutton had some clubhouse foes, too. According to Tommy John, during the brawl someone yelled, "Stop the fight, they'll kill each other!" Catcher Joe Ferguson's response: "Good."

Thurman Munson vs. Reggie Jackson
Munson, the mercurial Yankees catcher from 1969 to 1979, was the kind of guy who, if he wanted, could have a feud with a barcalounger. Jackson's ego was only slightly smaller than Queens. It was a marriage made in sportswriter heaven. George Steinbrenner once had to physically separate the two in the middle of a Fort Lauderdale, Fla., Denny's restaurant. And though they mostly ignored one another in the two years before Munson died in a private plane crash, their feud did produce one of baseball's most famous quotes, courtesy of Jackson. It's also the only famous sports quote that sounds like a grammatically incorrect bartender guide. "I'm the straw that stirs the drink," Jackson said. "It all comes down to me. Maybe I should say Munson and me, but he really doesn't enter into it. Munson thinks he can be the straw that stirs the drink but he can only stir it bad."

westofyou
03-01-2007, 11:26 AM
The A's of the early 70s had a rep for bad chemistry. I can't recall any specifc player issues. Charlie Finley seemed to stir the pot.

Blue Moon Odom and Rollie Fingers fought in the clubhouse, Mike Epstein wasn't everyones fave when he showed up.

Chip R
03-01-2007, 11:32 AM
Even if it's bad chemistry, it's still chemistry. It's like that old saying, the opposit of love isn't hate, it's apathy. I'd rather have a talented team that didn't get along than an apathetic team with no talent.

Redsland
03-01-2007, 11:48 AM
Who cares what the opposite of apathy is?

:)

George Anderson
03-01-2007, 11:54 AM
Read "The Bronx Zoo" by Sparky Lyle. It covers the 1978 Yankees and the incredible amount of bad chemistry they had.

Johnny Footstool
03-01-2007, 01:47 PM
Chemistry is one of those words sportswriters like to use to make the game seem like a totally different world, one that the average person couldn't possibly understand unless a sportswriter is there to interpret it.

I think "confidence" is a better intangible to look for than chemistry. I believe that confidence has a huge impact on player performance. But I think performance breeds confidence, not the other way around.

Caveat Emperor
03-01-2007, 01:53 PM
Who cares what the opposite of apathy is?

:)

Reminds me of an episode of Futurama where Fry asks to join the voter apathy party. Their response: "Not with an attitude like that, you can't."

IMO, the best way to create team chemistry is to win.

Redsland
03-01-2007, 01:54 PM
Reminds me of an episode of Futurama where Fry asks to join the voter apathy party. Their response: "Not with an attitude like that, you can't."
"The heck with you, then."