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Benihana
03-07-2007, 04:29 PM
Who are the Reds 15 biggest assets? This factors in all variables, including performance, salary, contract status, age, projection, etc. If you had to rank the Reds' 15 best chips in a trade (not that you'd want to trade any of them), how would you rank 'em?

My list goes like this:
1. Homer Bailey RHP
2. Aaron Harang RHP
3. Edwin Encarnacion 3B
4. Adam Dunn LF
5. Jay Bruce RF
6. Bronson Arroyo RHP
7. Joey Votto 1B
8. Brandon Phillips 2B
9. Bill Bray LHP
10. Ryan Freel OF
11. Johnny Cueto RHP
12. Travis Wood LHP
13. Josh Hamilton OF
14. Chris Denorfia OF
15. Drew Stubbs CF

I guess in retrospect, you could also call this list a "Top 15 Prospects" of the whole system, only including guys at the major league level. Not that guys like Dunn, Harang, and Arroyo could qualify as prospects, but the same criteria they use for the "Top Prospect" lists ie performance, maturity, projectability, etc. you could use for this list. What do you think? How would you rank 'em?

Johnny Footstool
03-07-2007, 04:38 PM
Good list. With the current market for pitching, I'd say Arroyo is worth more than Dunn. Also, considering his age and contract status (1 year left), I'd leave Freel off the list.

Chip R
03-07-2007, 04:46 PM
1. Westley's brains
2. Fezzik's strength
3. Inigo Montoya's steel

membengal
03-07-2007, 04:53 PM
Whoever "CC" is from C. Trent's blog updates?

chicoruiz
03-07-2007, 04:55 PM
Might stick David Ross down there before Deno, but otherwise a very good list...

Benihana
03-07-2007, 05:03 PM
Thanks, I think lists like this really allow you to gauge the values of various trades. I have David Ross, Paul Janish, and Chris Valaika as the three who just missed the top 15.

Redsland
03-07-2007, 05:07 PM
Whoever "CC" is from C. Trent's blog updates?
Some chick who sits in that particular row of seats.

redsfanmia
03-07-2007, 05:12 PM
Dunn is way to high on your list, I think the Reds would gladly trade him if they could get anything decent in return. I dont think he has much value at all, he has admitted that he hasnt worked hard in the past and makes way too much money for what he brings to the table.

Benihana
03-07-2007, 05:13 PM
Dunn is way to high on your list, I think the Reds would gladly trade him if they could get anything decent in return. I dont think he has much value at all, he has admitted that he hasnt worked hard in the past and makes way too much money for what he brings to the table.

maybe, but do you really think a Brandon Phillips would ever fetch more than Dunn in a trade? I disagree that Dunn is overvalued because he doesn't have a longterm deal, he is only tied up for two more years.

redsfanmia
03-07-2007, 05:22 PM
maybe, but do you really think a Brandon Phillips would ever fetch more than Dunn in a trade? I disagree that Dunn is overvalued because he doesn't have a longterm deal, he is only tied up for two more years.

I would take Brandon Phillips everyday of the week over Dunn but thats neither here nor there. Dunn is completely overvalued at the 10+ million Dollars a year and that diminishes his trade value. How many overpayed players do you see being traded for something worthy? If Dunn is serious about a new attitude toward working and improving then maybe he increases his value, until he proves it I dont think his value is high.

Eric_Davis
03-07-2007, 05:45 PM
#16....We'll sneak up on clubs this year as no one expects us to be anything more than a distant 5th place in the Central Division.

membengal
03-07-2007, 06:33 PM
Some chick who sits in that particular row of seats.

Um, yes. I know.

I was listing her as a potential asset...

Redsland
03-07-2007, 06:46 PM
Ah.

:oops:

Nugget
03-07-2007, 06:49 PM
Um I dunno we have only ever seen her back and C.Trent hasn't even confirmed whether he was wearing glasses at the time. I'd say she is in the same boat as Wifrin Obispo - ie. its rumoured to be true.

OnBaseMachine
03-07-2007, 07:32 PM
I would put Cueto in my top ten, overall a good list though.

membengal
03-07-2007, 07:56 PM
Um I dunno we have only ever seen her back and C.Trent hasn't even confirmed whether he was wearing glasses at the time. I'd say she is in the same boat as Wifrin Obispo - ie. its rumoured to be true.

The back looked fine, perhaps previewing more worth seeing. I put her on the "maybe" a top 15 asset list.

I am guessing C. Trent would have her higher than that...

Kc61
03-08-2007, 12:21 AM
Putting Chris Denorfia over Todd Coffey, Alex Gonzalez, and David Ross makes no sense to me. Guy is a good fielding singles hitter with no power. A good bench player, but not the Reds' 16th best asset by any means.

I have a (milder) disagreement with rating Cueto and Wood so high. Good young prospects, but not even in the top 100 in baseball, both having succeeded at A ball. Cueto does not have the classic pitcher's body, Wood has to show he has the stuff for higher levels. Again, glad they are here, but not among the organization's top dozen assets -- probably make the top twenty.

mth123
03-08-2007, 06:32 AM
I'd bump Freel and add Coffey

RedEye
03-08-2007, 08:10 PM
Putting Chris Denorfia over Todd Coffey, Alex Gonzalez, and David Ross makes no sense to me. Guy is a good fielding singles hitter with no power. A good bench player, but not the Reds' 16th best asset by any means.


I think when you factor in salary you have to put Deno higher than Ross and Gonzalez.

PuffyPig
03-08-2007, 08:37 PM
Who are the Reds 15 biggest assets? This factors in all variables, including performance, salary, contract status, age, projection, etc. If you had to rank the Reds' 15 best chips in a trade (not that you'd want to trade any of them), how would you rank 'em?

My list goes like this:
1. Homer Bailey RHP
2. Aaron Harang RHP
3. Edwin Encarnacion 3B
4. Adam Dunn LF
5. Jay Bruce RF
6. Bronson Arroyo RHP
7. Joey Votto 1B
8. Brandon Phillips 2B
9. Bill Bray LHP
10. Ryan Freel OF
11. Johnny Cueto RHP
12. Travis Wood LHP
13. Josh Hamilton OF
14. Chris Denorfia OF
15. Drew Stubbs CF

I

I think you have Bailey too high, he's still unproven.

Encarnacion is certainly higher.

Harang, being a starter, and signed to a 4-5 year contract would rank higher. Would you trade Harang for Hughes, who's generally ranked higher (or as high) as Bailey?

With Dunn signed for only 2 more years, I'd rank Encarnacion above him. Probably Arroyo too, based on trade value of starters.

I'd start with:

Harang
Encarnacion
Arroyo
Dunn
Bailey
Bruce
Phillips
Votto

The rest becomes a crap shoot. Bailey is the hard one. I keep asking myself would I trade "x" for Hughes? I wouldn't trade the first 4 straight up for Hughes, but would trade the guys from Bruce on. And I might be tempted with Dunn.

4256 Hits
03-08-2007, 10:50 PM
Show the sad state the Reds are in when a rule 5 draft pick is considered the teams 13 best asset. :help: :scared:

Kc61
03-08-2007, 11:12 PM
I think when you factor in salary you have to put Deno higher than Ross and Gonzalez.

You trade Ross or Gonzalez you get back a major leaguer, likely a starting player. You trade Deno and you get back a reserve player or a decent kid.

Yachtzee
03-08-2007, 11:17 PM
1. Westley's brains
2. Fezzik's strength
3. Inigo Montoya's steel

You forgot the wheelbarrow. Now if the Reds just had a holocaust cloak...

KronoRed
03-09-2007, 03:13 AM
Show the sad state the Reds are in when a rule 5 draft pick is considered the teams 13 best asset. :help: :scared:

At least pile-o-cash isn't on the list anymore ;)

jojo
03-09-2007, 07:33 AM
Good list. With the current market for pitching, I'd say Arroyo is worth more than Dunn. Also, considering his age and contract status (1 year left), I'd leave Freel off the list.

I think the Reds actually control Freel for 2 more years....

mth123
03-09-2007, 07:56 AM
I think the Reds actually control Freel for 2 more years....

Yeah, but after this one he'll be expensive. Not much "value" in a cheap, desirable role player sense after 2007.

With Hammy and Deno now, and even guys like Bubba, Wise, Dickerson and Strait for depth, there will never be a better time to trade him. Especially while he still has his versatility intact (which may lose its luster with a year of playing pretty much exclusively in the OF in 2007 as I suspect he will).

Benihana
04-20-2007, 01:56 PM
just curious, how would this list shape up now with this season's early developments? where would you put hamilton?

Marc D
04-20-2007, 02:54 PM
just curious, how would this list shape up now with this season's early developments? where would you put hamilton?

In terms of trade value:
1. Harang
2. Arroyo
3. Homer Bailey
4. Dunn
5. Freel (only legit MLB chip we can even remotely afford to trade imo)
6. EE
7. Hamilton (stock obviously rising)
8. Phillips
9. Votto
10. Bruce
11. Bill Bray (possibly jump to top 5 if healthy and productive)
12. Johnny Cueto
13. Travis Wood
14. Drew Stubbs
15. Deno (higher when healthy)

edabbs44
04-20-2007, 02:57 PM
In terms of trade value:
1. Harang
2. Arroyo
3. Homer Bailey
4. Dunn
5. Freel (only legit MLB chip we can even remotely afford to trade imo)
6. EE
7. Hamilton (stock obviously rising)
8. Phillips
9. Votto
10. Bruce
11. Bill Bray (possibly jump to top 5 if healthy and productive)
12. Johnny Cueto
13. Travis Wood
14. Drew Stubbs
15. Deno (higher when healthy)

I think Bailey might be #1 since Harang and Arroyo signed their extensions. And Bruce/Votto should be ahead of Freel.

Kc61
04-20-2007, 03:31 PM
I think Bailey might be #1 since Harang and Arroyo signed their extensions. And Bruce/Votto should be ahead of Freel.

Bruce is underrated here, but if Votto has that much value (ninth best in whole organization), I say trade him now.

Dunner44
04-20-2007, 03:32 PM
You forgot the wheelbarrow. Now if the Reds just had a holocaust cloak...

[Andre the Giant]I am the Dread Pirate Roberts. There will be no survivors! No Survivors! [/Andre the Giant]

Benihana
04-20-2007, 03:39 PM
In terms of trade value:
1. Harang
2. Arroyo
3. Homer Bailey
4. Dunn
5. Freel (only legit MLB chip we can even remotely afford to trade imo)
6. EE
7. Hamilton (stock obviously rising)
8. Phillips
9. Votto
10. Bruce
11. Bill Bray (possibly jump to top 5 if healthy and productive)
12. Johnny Cueto
13. Travis Wood
14. Drew Stubbs
15. Deno (higher when healthy)

I think Freel is too high on your list. If he is in fact that high in real life, I would DEFINITELY trade him now. My new list would look more like this:

1. Bailey
2. Harang
3. Dunn (his new attitude/approach have him higher)
4. Arroyo (so far proving last year was no fluke)
5. Encarnacion (struggled early, will hopefully turn it around soon)
6. Hamilton (will be #1 by the All Star Break if he keeps this up)
7. Phillips
8. Votto
9. Bruce
10. Freel (if he's any higher, I would trade him)
11. Bray (could be as high as 6 by the end of the year)
12. Cueto
13. Wood
14. Stubbs
15. Valikala (still very young and raw, but so far nothing but results)

Deno has dropped off of the list IMO.

Marc D
04-20-2007, 03:47 PM
I put Freel that high based on who I would want to help me win right now if I'm a contender(assuming thats our trade partner).

If we are doing business with a non-contender and trying to get our one missing piece (please God don't let WK think that) then I agree all the kids are higher than Freel.

I also put Harang and Arroyo higher than HB because they have good contracts which another team would be happy to pick up and they are MLB proven.

As always, trade value is a realative term and completely in the eye of the beholder.

Benihana
05-07-2007, 04:56 PM
Two months later, I thought it would be nice to revisit this list. Here is my revised list:

1. aaron harang rhp (has cemented his status as a ML ace)
2. bronson arroyo rhp (proving last year's success was no fluke)
3. homer bailey rhp (hasn't disappointed in AAA so far)
4. jay bruce of (would be any other franchise's #1 prospect)
5. josh hamilton of (continues surge, will be in top 3 soon if he continues)
6. adam dunn of
7. brandon phillips 2b
8. edwin encarnacion 3b (slow start has some concerned)
9. ryan freel of/if (new deal and denorfia departure increase his value)
10. joey votto 1b (very slow start in AAA reminds some of '05)
11. chris valaika ss (doesn't stop hitting)
12. kyle lohse rhp (will be overpaid elsewhere after this year)
13. johnny cueto rhp
14. sean watson rhp (had the best start in the minors next to bruce)
15. matt belisle rhp

on the bubble

bill bray lhp
marcus mcbeth rhp
juan francisco 3b
drew stubbs of
carlos fisher rhp
travis wood lhp (injured)
sam lecure rhp
adam rosales ss

thoughts?

bucksfan2
05-07-2007, 05:15 PM
1. Arroyo
2. Harang
3. Homer
4. Bruce
5. Dunn
6. Hamilton
7. Encarnacion
8. Phillips
9. Votto
10. Valaika
11. Lohse
12. Cueto
13. Watson
14. Salmon
15. Francisco/Stubbs

I think value as whether they are replaceable or not and what the market will bear for each player along with performance. I think Arroyo moves to the top because he has pitched slightly better so far this year. I dropped Freel and Bray off the list because Freel is a replaceable part and Bray hasn't been heard from this year. I interchanged Belisle and Lohse because I think Lohse has a lot of trade value right now as well as extention value. I would move Hamilton to #1 if the lingering relapse worries.

Kc61
05-07-2007, 05:43 PM
Lists continue to assume that any player who makes money has no trade value. I think this is incorrect.

So Alex Gonzalez, who is playing great shortstop and hitting, has less value than Joey Votto hitting .196 at AAA? Brad Salmon has more value than Ken Griffey Jr., even at his age and injury status?

One of these posts has Adam Rosales with more value that Alex Gonzalez and David Ross and Javier Valentin.

Not buying these lists. Sorry.

Benihana
05-08-2007, 03:02 PM
Lists continue to assume that any player who makes money has no trade value. I think this is incorrect.

So Alex Gonzalez, who is playing great shortstop and hitting, has less value than Joey Votto hitting .196 at AAA? Brad Salmon has more value than Ken Griffey Jr., even at his age and injury status?

One of these posts has Adam Rosales with more value that Alex Gonzalez and David Ross and Javier Valentin.

Not buying these lists. Sorry.


Well I guess the criteria can be better explained here:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/05/07/bp.ufd.first/index.html?cnn=yes

If you were to start a franchise, who would you want from the Reds (age and contracts included). Now maybe you can "buy these lists".

Kc61
05-08-2007, 03:46 PM
Read it. Understand it. Still don't buy the lists on this thread. These lists go overboard in valuing prospects who are good, but not great prospects. I too would value Bailey and Bruce very highly. But to say that Brad Salmon has more trade value, or whatever you call it, than Alex Gonzalez -- contract, age and all -- I find way off the mark. Sorry.