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View Full Version : Steve Phillips thinks Reds making wrong message



Reverend Doo-Rag
03-09-2007, 01:27 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2007/columns/story?columnist=phillips_steve&id=2792089

Personally I think the Reds are sending the right message to minor leaguers: MLB is not always fair. It's a business, not the cub scouts. Sometimes talent and ticket sales are more important than hard work. That's the way it is.

George Anderson
03-09-2007, 01:33 PM
If Phillips wants to point fingers of blame, point the finger at MLB for having the rule. The Reds are merely following what is required to keep a Rule 5 player on their roster. No it doesnt seem fair but I would rather have a talent the caliber of Hamilton on the roster as opposed to not having him on the roster because it might hurt a minor leaguers feelings.

edabbs44
03-09-2007, 01:40 PM
Yeah, he's clouding the line between his drug use and Rule 5 status.

If he deserves the roster spot, then he deserves it.

adampad
03-09-2007, 01:48 PM
Hamilton stories are on the front page of ESPN.com right now.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2007/columns/story?columnist=phillips_steve&id=2792089


The Josh Hamilton story is a great one. Good for him. It is nice to see Hamilton overcome his demons and start to thrive again. Baseball is a game of redemption; when you fail there is always a chance to bounce back. He is making the most of his second chance, and I hope and pray that he will keep his life together and fulfill his potential as a player. People deserve second chances. Heaven knows I have had my share.

Hamilton was selected in December's Rule 5 draft by the Cubs and traded to the Reds, which means that he must stay in the major leagues for the Reds to keep him. Otherwise, he will have to go through waivers and ultimately be offered back to the Devil Rays, his original team. What an opportunity for him. He has only played 15 minor league games in the past four seasons due to injuries and drug suspensions, yet he has a chance to be a big leaguer. It sounds great, but there is another side to it.

Josh Hamilton
AP Photo/Robert F. Bukaty
Hamilton earned a $3.96M signing bonus from the Devil Rays as the No. 1 overall pick in the 1999 draft.

Every decision made by an organization impacts every other decision. Every decision makes a statement about that organization and what it believes in. Every decision sets a precedent for the next decision. On a daily basis, minor league players are instructed, developed, cultivated and directed on how to become major league players. They are told to work hard, stay committed to their careers, make good decisions, be professional, be a good teammate, etc.

The decision to acquire Hamilton and give him a chance to be a major league player without doing anything to earn it over the past four seasons makes a statement to current Reds major leaguers and especially to the organization's minor league players. This one decision contradicts everything the organization claims is important.

I am not trying to be insensitive. In fact, I am rooting for Josh Hamilton to do very well. If I was a general manager I would want him in my organization to serve as an example of redemption and perseverance. I just wouldn't have picked him in the Rule 5 draft and made the statement that he deserves to be a major leaguer right now. It sends the wrong message to all of the hardworking, dedicated young men who are paying the price to get to the major leagues. Not to mention that it sends the wrong message to Hamilton.

Maybe the organization can spin the decision and find a way to justify it to its young prospects. My experience is that ballplayers see through that. Their take will be that if you have talent, it doesn't really matter what you do or how you behave -- there is a place for you at the top. That is not the attitude that leads to championships.

Even if Hamilton develops into something more than a spring training phenom, it wouldn't change my decision about the merits of selecting him. But what's done is done, and I for one will root for his success as hard as I can because it really is a great story.

Steve Phillips, former general manager of the New York Mets, is a regular on ESPN's Baseball Tonight.


On the other hand though: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2007/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2792609

Northern Red
03-09-2007, 01:48 PM
Sorry, if this has been posted. Just did a cursory glance and didn't notice it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2007/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2792609

If anyone knows how to post the whole article in this thread, feel free. I don't post that often - I just enjoy reading all the comments. Anyway, all I know how to do is add the url.

Go REDS!

justincredible
03-09-2007, 01:51 PM
If he deserves the roster spot, then he deserves it.

Exactly. There might be minor leaguers who have been around longer but that doesn't mean they would deserve a shot over a guy like Hamilton. If Hamilton proves he deserves a roster spot, then it shouldn't matter how many years or games he has played at the minor league level. Most people never make the big club no matter how much time the spend on the farm. Is it wrong to hurt their feelings for not being that great at baseball?

hebroncougar
03-09-2007, 01:52 PM
That's why Phillips is a former GM.

membengal
03-09-2007, 01:57 PM
Now Jayson Stark has to fight Steve Phillips to the death...

Redus
03-09-2007, 02:27 PM
Steve Philips likes nothing we do. I dont know what his problem is. Perhaps he should get down off his high horse.
You go Jeff Hamilton!

Eric_Davis
03-09-2007, 02:34 PM
When Steve Phillips speaks or is visible to me, I literally turn the channel. ESPN is really good at giving idiots airtime.

Hey Meat
03-09-2007, 02:42 PM
Steve Phillips always says;"if I was GM," Well Phil, you are not a GM in fact you stink as a GM. Don't try to spoil something which to this point has been positive for Hamilton.

Yachtzee
03-09-2007, 02:46 PM
Now Jayson Stark has to fight Steve Phillips to the death...

Two pundits go in. One comes out. THUNDERDOME!

Chip R
03-09-2007, 02:47 PM
Two pundits go in. One comes out. THUNDERDOME!


Cue Raisor. ;)

savafan
03-09-2007, 02:51 PM
Steve Philips likes nothing we do. I dont know what his problem is. Perhaps he should get down off his high horse.
You go Jeff Hamilton!

Yeah, you go Jeff Hamilton!

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/pics/jeff_hamilton_autograph.jpg

Ummm...where are we telling him to go? :evil:

bucksfan2
03-09-2007, 02:53 PM
First of all Steve Phillips is just a talking head on ESPN that has failed at being a gm. Second of all how is this sending a wrong message to the reds minor leaguers? There is not a single player in the minors who has the kind of talent Hamilton does. Bruce may be close talent wise but he isn't Hamilton. Votto may be the most ready prospect the reds have to step in but you really can't carry 3 1b. Did the twins send a bad message to their minor leaguers when the kept santana on the 25 man roster for an entire season. If so how do those offended minor leaguers feel now that one of their teammates is the best pitcher in baseball? This article is just stupid but I guess he got the reaction that he wanted.

cacollinsmba
03-09-2007, 03:13 PM
I'm not sure where Phillips' indignation comes from. At worst, Hamilton's presence on the 25 man roster (assuming he is on it when the season starts) will at worst bump Hopper and/or Crosby. Neither of these guys are young prospects that would be impeded by Hamilton's presence on the roster.

Eric_Davis
03-09-2007, 03:31 PM
Hamilton....Crosby

Hamilton....Crosby

Hmmmm....tough decision, I don't know.

I think I'll pick.......Hamilton, and Crosby can take his career .118 OPS packing.

Phhhl
03-09-2007, 04:27 PM
The bottom line is teams like the Reds need to take chances on guys like Hamilton and have them pay off in order to compete. It has nothing to do with wanting to help Josh Hamilton, or being concerned about the psyche of other players in the system or anything like that. It has to do with capitolizing on the situation to try and secure a talented player that couldn't be acquire otherwise.

In this ridiuclous, inequitable environment, it is what some teams HAVE to do to try and keep up with big market teams. If Steve Phillips doesn't like it, he is pointing the finger at the wrong culprit.

realistic
03-09-2007, 08:37 PM
The bottom line is teams like the Reds need to take chances on guys like Hamilton and have them pay off in order to compete. It has nothing to do with wanting to help Josh Hamilton, or being concerned about the psyche of other players in the system or anything like that. It has to do with capitolizing on the situation to try and secure a talented player that couldn't be acquire otherwise.

In this ridiuclous, inequitable environment, it is what some teams HAVE to do to try and keep up with big market teams. If Steve Phillips doesn't like it, he is pointing the finger at the wrong culprit.


Agreed. As GM of the Mets he did not see this part of the game I guess. Go throw 100 million at Mo Vaughn and call it a good off-season. Oops!

I think Hamilton's defense alone merits a roster spot on this Reds team considering the current OF situation. Hes an ideal late inning sub with his skill set regardless of potential or past. Its just smart baseball Mr. Phillips.

redsfanfalcon
03-09-2007, 10:10 PM
As Dibble and Kennedy said tonight on XM 175...it is Steve Phillips's job to be controversial...and a complete moron.

Redus
03-10-2007, 08:23 PM
Yeah, you go Jeff Hamilton!

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/pics/jeff_hamilton_autograph.jpg

Ummm...where are we telling him to go? :evil:

Hahaha I must have had a brain fart....Always did like JEFF Hamilton though:help:

Rocket_Fuel
03-11-2007, 03:15 PM
Isn't this the guy that wasted money on players like Mo Vaughn and had fake press conferences!?

Matt700wlw
03-11-2007, 05:18 PM
As of right now, Steve Phillips is looking pretty stupid about Josh Hamilton.

Slyder
03-11-2007, 05:36 PM
As of right now, Steve Phillips is looking pretty stupid about Josh Hamilton.


This is any different than the other 99% of the time how? He is always looking pretty stupid. I wish I could have the chance to fail as a gm and get a cooshy job at ESPN where Im paid to show why I got fired in the first place.

The Josh Hamilton story if anything shows whats great about America IMO. Guy screws up, admits it, deals with it, and gets a second chance.

HokieRed
03-11-2007, 06:09 PM
Seems a little more obvious every day that there's nobody toiling away in the Reds' minor leagues whose getting overlooked for Hamilton. That's not a knock on our minor leaguers. Actually I think we've got more minor league strength than a lot of people do. Phillips' point would be better if the player in question were more similar to Deno, Dickerson et. al. Hamilton's not being preferred over anybody arbitrarily. Right now he's just flat out better by a wide margin. Let's root for him to keep it up, both for his and the Reds' sake.

RedEye
03-11-2007, 08:23 PM
So let me get this straight: Phillips is rooting for Josh Hamilton with all his heart because "it's a great story", but he's against the decision made by the team who gave him the chance to succeed in the first place? I don't think we should be putting much credence into what he's saying; he just needed something to write about, and didn't bother checking his piece for internal contradiction.