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icehole3
03-10-2007, 07:22 PM
Let me be the first to say Wilson should be handed the fifth starter position, if he's healthy Opening day...by the end of april I think he'll move up to number 3 in the rotation. Im for keeping veteran starters who have a proven track record of getting better as the season goes on. Im a huge Wilson fan. Saarlos is the real deal but I'd take Wilson over him.

OnBaseMachine
03-10-2007, 07:37 PM
Let me be the first to say Wilson should be handed the fifth starter position, if he's healthy Opening day...by the end of april I think he'll move up to number 3 in the rotation. Im for keeping veteran starters who have a proven track record of getting better as the season goes on. Im a huge Wilson fan. Saarlos is the real deal but I'd take Wilson over him.

Wilson is topping out at 84 mph. He's done.

justincredible
03-10-2007, 07:51 PM
I'd rather see Josh Hamilton as the 5th starter than Paul Wilson.

jojo
03-10-2007, 07:57 PM
Let me be the first to say Wilson should be handed the fifth starter position, if he's healthy Opening day...by the end of april I think he'll move up to number 3 in the rotation. Im for keeping veteran starters who have a proven track record of getting better as the season goes on. Im a huge Wilson fan. Saarlos is the real deal but I'd take Wilson over him.

Yikes!

PickOff
03-10-2007, 08:00 PM
Let me be the first to say Wilson should be handed the fifth starter position

I guess we'll find out if you are the last to say that too.;)

HumnHilghtFreel
03-10-2007, 08:00 PM
Wilson is throwing BP fastballs. He might know how to get guys out, but he's gonna have to work really hard to do so.

I wouldn't mind keeping him around in the minors as an emergency plan, but I definitely don't think I'd like to see him on the opening day roster.

jojo
03-10-2007, 08:10 PM
Wilson is throwing BP fastballs. He might know how to get guys out, but he's gonna have to work really hard to do so.

I wouldn't mind keeping him around in the minors as an emergency plan, but I definitely don't think I'd like to see him on the opening day roster.

Ya....I really doubt Wilson will break with the club....he might end up in AAA trying to work his way onto the Louisville shuttle....

Dracodave
03-10-2007, 08:15 PM
Ya....I really doubt Wilson will break with the club....he might end up in AAA trying to work his way onto the Louisville shuttle....

We can only wish.

redsmetz
03-10-2007, 08:18 PM
Did Brantley or Brennaman indicate how fast his pitches were today? I still haven't heard, other than folks here saying a number.

HumnHilghtFreel
03-10-2007, 08:21 PM
Did Brantley or Brennaman indicate how fast his pitches were today? I still haven't heard, other than folks here saying a number.

The game was on tv, so people are going off the tv stations gun.

jojo
03-10-2007, 08:22 PM
Did Brantley or Brennaman indicate how fast his pitches were today? I still haven't heard, other than folks here saying a number.

I was quoting the gun numbers shown on mlb tv after every pitch....take 'em for what theyre worth... His fastball was topping out at 85 and his breaking stuff was in the high 70's....

Patrick Bateman
03-10-2007, 08:28 PM
Let me be the first to say Wilson should be handed the fifth starter position, if he's healthy Opening day...by the end of april I think he'll move up to number 3 in the rotation. Im for keeping veteran starters who have a proven track record of getting better as the season goes on. Im a huge Wilson fan. Saarlos is the real deal but I'd take Wilson over him.

God. Proven success? He's a nice guy, but outside of one uncharacteristic fluky season he's been junk. Now he's gone through a bunch of serious injuries and you are ready to hand him a rotation spot after 1 good game?

He's probably finished and may not even crack our best 10 starting options. He certainly has to prove himself just like every other guy before he gets a spot.

Will M
03-10-2007, 08:42 PM
I would start Wilson in AAA for 4-5 starts and see if his comeback is the real deal.

Joseph
03-10-2007, 08:42 PM
I guess we'll find out if you are the last to say that too.;)

First, last, and only is my guess.

Redlegs23
03-10-2007, 09:05 PM
84

pedro
03-10-2007, 09:09 PM
If it was given out on effort alone I suspect Wilson would be in contention. The guy clearly wants to play. Unfortunately Wilson doesn't seem to have the fastball to compete anymore and I don't think he can get by on guile alone.

membengal
03-10-2007, 09:13 PM
Let me be the first to say Wilson should be handed the fifth starter position, if he's healthy Opening day...by the end of april I think he'll move up to number 3 in the rotation. Im for keeping veteran starters who have a proven track record of getting better as the season goes on. Im a huge Wilson fan. Saarlos is the real deal but I'd take Wilson over him.

This post wounds my soul and has sent me spinning into a dark and depressive place, from which there may be no recovery...

Newman4
03-10-2007, 09:47 PM
Let me be the first to say Wilson should be handed the fifth starter position, if he's healthy Opening day...by the end of april I think he'll move up to number 3 in the rotation. Im for keeping veteran starters who have a proven track record of getting better as the season goes on. Im a huge Wilson fan. Saarlos is the real deal but I'd take Wilson over him.

Is there like a "free beer and drugs festival" going on where you live? WTF?

By the way, I don't think you had to beat the rush to suggest Wilson be the fifth starter.

KronoRed
03-10-2007, 09:48 PM
Wilson wouldn't be my 10th starter

Z-Fly
03-10-2007, 10:27 PM
Let me be the first to say Wilson should be handed the fifth starter position, if he's healthy Opening day...by the end of april I think he'll move up to number 3 in the rotation. Im for keeping veteran starters who have a proven track record of getting better as the season goes on. Im a huge Wilson fan. Saarlos is the real deal but I'd take Wilson over him.

I would have to agree with the majority and say it will probably not happen. It would be a great story. To somewhat quote star wars... he is more machine than man now.

He seems like a great guy. They say no one works harder than he does. But an 84 MPH fastball isn't going to cut it IMO.

Saying all that.... I would hate for him to be pitching in someone elses camp right now. It would burn pretty good for him to come back and pitch well somewhere else.

WVRedsFan
03-11-2007, 12:54 AM
When I saw the boxscore, I knew this subject would come up. It's like when our own BobC came up with the line that losing Paul Wilson was part of the club's downfall in 2005. It makes no sense. Wilson would pitch a good six innings once in awhile, but six was usually it. Sometimes he didn't even get to six. And that was before his recent problems.

The Reds had better do the right thing and offer him a minor league deal (which he won't take).

icehole3
03-11-2007, 09:13 AM
When he was healthy the year before last, Im sure he didnt hit 90 every start, the guy knows how to get guys out. Why is Narron running him out there as a starter using up valuable starts that could be used by other potential starters if he was not performing up to par. If he was buried in the mix of competition then I would agree with you guys as him being the 10 starter, but he isnt. He's getting the opportunity and the other guys arent, Narron must see something (you guys can call Narron stupid, nuts, whatever) he's the guy running the show and I trust his judgement on this one and Wilson IS getting guys out, now if doesnt get guys out send him packing. I feel if he's put in the 5th starter role he can set up our rotation like Eddie Guardado set up our bullpen just my opinion.

mth123
03-11-2007, 09:25 AM
Starter Pecking Order as of now IMO (not necessarily what the Reds will do).

1. Harang
2. Arroyo
3. Ramirez
4. Belisle
5. Santos
6. Saarloos
7. Lohse
8. Milton
9. Dumatrait
10. Shearn
11. Wilson
12. Bailey

I like Bailey for the future and numbers 3 through 8 are all number 5 types.

The fact that number 8 has a big contact probably means he makes it in order to try to move some of it later.

Offering a contract to number 7 (or more correctly stated the failure to trade him prior to contract time coming around) was a big mistake IMO given the other options on hand.

Acquiring number 6 would have been a much better move if number 7 wasn't brought back.

Number 5 will be good insurance for the bottom spot at AAA.

I hope numbers 3 and 4 aren't lost due to the glut. Cheap number 5 starters and middle relievers are key to a small market team saving resources for more prominent roles.

The lack of a true quality guy between the top 2 and the rest will be a downfall I'm afraid.

icehole3
03-11-2007, 09:48 AM
I get where youre coming from but we all know Narron has a different agenda

Tony Cloninger
03-11-2007, 11:41 AM
I agree....Wilson as the 5th starter.......along with Castro over AG at SS and Conine over EE at 3rd base. Oh and uh.......Hopper over Dunn in LF, we need more Eddie Milner type hitters in the lineup.

Blimpie
03-11-2007, 11:52 AM
I think Pete Harnish is available.

Matt700wlw
03-11-2007, 12:36 PM
Let me be the first to say Wilson should be handed the fifth starter position, if he's healthy Opening day...by the end of april I think he'll move up to number 3 in the rotation. Im for keeping veteran starters who have a proven track record of getting better as the season goes on. Im a huge Wilson fan. Saarlos is the real deal but I'd take Wilson over him.

Couldn't agree any less.

He's done.

I have no faith in his arm anymore. Love his heart, love his desire, love his passion.....but that doesn't win ball games.

Matt700wlw
03-11-2007, 12:38 PM
When I saw the boxscore, I knew this subject would come up. It's like when our own BobC came up with the line that losing Paul Wilson was part of the club's downfall in 2005. It makes no sense. Wilson would pitch a good six innings once in awhile, but six was usually it. Sometimes he didn't even get to six. And that was before his recent problems.

The Reds had better do the right thing and offer him a minor league deal (which he won't take).

He's on a minor league deal.

I wouldn't have even offered him that....

corkedbat
03-11-2007, 01:35 PM
I'd have to put Sarloos, Ramierez, Belisle and Santos all far ahead of Wilson in my 5th starter preference list. If it came right down to it, I'd go with Homer, and I'm one of those that believe it's probably best if he starts the year in Louisville.

WVRedsFan
03-11-2007, 03:23 PM
When he was healthy the year before last, Im sure he didnt hit 90 every start, the guy knows how to get guys out. Why is Narron running him out there as a starter using up valuable starts that could be used by other potential starters if he was not performing up to par. If he was buried in the mix of competition then I would agree with you guys as him being the 10 starter, but he isnt. He's getting the opportunity and the other guys arent, Narron must see something (you guys can call Narron stupid, nuts, whatever) he's the guy running the show and I trust his judgement on this one and Wilson IS getting guys out, now if doesnt get guys out send him packing. I feel if he's put in the 5th starter role he can set up our rotation like Eddie Guardado set up our bullpen just my opinion.

You summed it up pretty well, and I'll say this. Your talking Narron's judgment here, and that says it all. If he's banking on Wilson being his fifth starter, it goes along with the rest of his decisions over the last season and a half he's been manager. Poor. Very poor.

11larkin11
03-11-2007, 08:32 PM
I think we just need to get rid of Milton any way possible. He's done. IDK if we DFA him, if we can. Take the cut and move on. Saarlos and Livingston could be the 4 and 5, I like what I've seen from Livingston so far. Maybe Belisle, who knows.

tripleaaaron
03-11-2007, 10:03 PM
When he was healthy the year before last, Im sure he didnt hit 90 every start, the guy knows how to get guys out. Why is Narron running him out there as a starter using up valuable starts that could be used by other potential starters if he was not performing up to par. If he was buried in the mix of competition then I would agree with you guys as him being the 10 starter, but he isnt. He's getting the opportunity and the other guys arent, Narron must see something (you guys can call Narron stupid, nuts, whatever) he's the guy running the show and I trust his judgement on this one and Wilson IS getting guys out, now if doesnt get guys out send him packing. I feel if he's put in the 5th starter role he can set up our rotation like Eddie Guardado set up our bullpen just my opinion.

Player TEAM W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HBP BB SO
. E Milton
CIN 0 0 6.23 3 3 0 0 0 0 8.2 15 7 6 2 1 2 4
2. P Wilson
CIN 1 0 7.04 3 2 0 0 0 0 7.2 11 7 6 1 1 4 6
3. K Saarloos
CIN 1 0 3.68 3 0 0 0 0 0 7.1 9 3 3 1 0 1 1
4. B Livingston
CIN 0 0 0.00 3 1 0 0 0 0 6.0 6 0 0 0 1 0 4
5. V Santos
CIN 0 0 0.00 3 0 0 0 1 1 5.2 3 0 0 0 0 0 5
6. M Belisle
CIN 2 0 1.80 2 0 0 0 0 1 5.0 6 1 1 0 1 1 0
7. A Harang
CIN 1 1 9.00 2 2 0 0 0 0 5.0 12 5 5 2 0 0 3
8. E Ramirez
CIN 0 0 1.80 2 0 0 0 0 0 5.0 5 1 1 0 1 0 1
That is a good question, why is Narron running him out there other than to give him a chance, trying to have a "feel-good" story on both sides of the ball I guess. But the truth is even with a 3 IP 0H 0ER outing, Wilson truly is lost in the competition if you want to go ahead and jump to conclusions already, even though noone has broke double-digits in IP. Wilson and Milton both have terrible ERA's (as well as Harang) while you could possibly at this point say that Santos or Livingston or Belisle or Sarloos or Ramirez have all looked promising as a 5th starter. But even with a terrific outing Wilson is still on the very bottom of the pecking order. IF and I mean IF he should ever be on the roster is after a month of pitching terrificly at AAA, proving he can still be effective with minimal (at best) velocity.

mth123
03-12-2007, 07:33 AM
Starter Pecking Order as of now IMO (not necessarily what the Reds will do).

1. Harang
2. Arroyo
3. Ramirez
4. Belisle
5. Santos
6. Saarloos
7. Lohse
8. Milton
9. Dumatrait
10. Shearn
11. Wilson
12. Bailey

I like Bailey for the future and numbers 3 through 8 are all number 5 types.

The fact that number 8 has a big contact probably means he makes it in order to try to move some of it later.

Offering a contract to number 7 (or more correctly stated the failure to trade him prior to contract time coming around) was a big mistake IMO given the other options on hand.

Acquiring number 6 would have been a much better move if number 7 wasn't brought back.

Number 5 will be good insurance for the bottom spot at AAA.

I hope numbers 3 and 4 aren't lost due to the glut. Cheap number 5 starters and middle relievers are key to a small market team saving resources for more prominent roles.

The lack of a true quality guy between the top 2 and the rest will be a downfall I'm afraid.

I forgot Livingston on this list. I'd probably put him after Saarloos and before Lohse. He is another guy who I am unsure of the option status. I don't know if he'll have to be exposed if sent down or not.