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tripleaaaron
03-11-2007, 07:30 AM
As I just returned from spring break in mexico with no access to TV or internet I have been scanning the articles etc and came across the article on Jerry Gil. Upon reading about his 96 mph cannon and shortstop defense being "jeter-like", 26 hr potential, etc. I began to get chills thinking about our future infield of EE, BP, Votto, Gil, but since this is only based on the Reds site "talking up" their acquisition I wanted to ask those of you who have been able to watch the games or have watched him play in the past, how is his range at short? And does he have the potential to be as good as they are advertising, or just a solid utility player? I know that he prefers the outfield for his offensive game, but if he could put it all togethor and play short, imagine that infield. It still has the hairs standing on my back.

mth123
03-11-2007, 07:41 AM
As I just returned from spring break in mexico with no access to TV or internet I have been scanning the articles etc and came across the article on Jerry Gil. Upon reading about his 96 mph cannon and shortstop defense being "jeter-like", 26 hr potential, etc. I began to get chills thinking about our future infield of EE, BP, Votto, Gil, but since this is only based on the Reds site "talking up" their acquisition I wanted to ask those of you who have been able to watch the games or have watched him play in the past, how is his range at short? And does he have the potential to be as good as they are advertising, or just a solid utility player? I know that he prefers the outfield for his offensive game, but if he could put it all togethor and play short, imagine that infield. It still has the hairs standing on my back.

I haven't seen him play, but in an article that I have read he has stated that he is more comfortable in the OF. Too bad, at SS his low OBP might have been something he could have improved enough to be ok with his power. In the OF, I can't see him being more than a fringe guy. As an all around utility guy that provides competent defense at many spots, he could have a chance, but he needs to raise his OBP.

BubbaFan
03-11-2007, 07:54 AM
Small sample size, admittedly...but from what I've seen, he's a better infielder than outfielder.

He does have a cannon for an arm, though, so I can see why they want to try him in the outfield. It was his strong throw from CF that gunned down the runner at the plate and ended the first spring training game. Unfortunately for him, Marty told everyone it was Denorfia who made the great throw...

11larkin11
03-11-2007, 08:34 PM
I think he has to try to take a spot from Bellhorn, who may start on the 25.

membengal
03-11-2007, 09:00 PM
I think Gil is "Jeter-like" only in the sense that they are both human beings and play baseball...

dougdirt
03-11-2007, 09:20 PM
If Gil has Jeter like defense at SS, then I surely hope he sticks in the OF becuase Jeter just isnt very good at SS.

ochoa30
03-11-2007, 09:32 PM
If Gil has Jeter like defense at SS, then I surely hope he sticks in the OF becuase Jeter just isnt very good at SS.

This is very true, i live in CT and watch a lot of yankee games unfortunatley, and he isnt that good. He is at best average. He makes the easiest plays look difficult and gets so much credit for it. The gold glove or gloves he won were as credible as the one rafael palmeiro one when he played like 40 games at first. Tino martinez was amazing that year and got snubbed.

flyer85
03-11-2007, 09:35 PM
versatility and power. He would be an excellent reserve (much better than Castro or Moeller)

tripleaaaron
03-11-2007, 09:42 PM
although Jeter may not be that great of a shortstop overall, his athleticism was the focus of my wording, was tired and wanted to make it short.
The article stated:
"In Cincinnati on a relay in the bottom of the ninth," Miller recalled, "[Ryan] Freel hit a double to left-center field. [Luis] Terrero got the ball off the wall and threw to Gil. He jumped and did one of those [Derek] Jeter plays where you land and you throw and don't step. He just threw a laser to home and got [Jacob] Cruz out."
This denotes his laser of an arm and athletic ability to catch and release, which Jeter does very well. This is a very worthy quality in a middle infielder with their ability to field the cut off and make the close plays, which Jeter does as well. I for one have a strong disliking for Jeter as well, think he is very overrated, but at the same time this ability is very valuable. If Jerry Gil can do said above, and has good speed/range, he could develop into a very good infielder ie Barry Larkin who also had the uncanny ability to make the said close plays and athletic, crazy throws, he also had good power similar to Jerry Gil, so my post should have been more direct, can he develop the rest of his game to be an elite defensive shortstop?

Sea Ray
03-11-2007, 09:44 PM
I think he has to try to take a spot from Bellhorn, who may start on the 25.

Marty compared the two of them today while on the radio and said skills wise Gil beats him hands down. No contest.

flyer85
03-11-2007, 10:11 PM
there are only five reserve spots.

It looks as if Valentin, Conine and Castro are locks. If you add Hamilton there is one spot for the likes Denorfia, Bellhorn, Hopper, Moeller, Gile, etc.

BTW, Moeller has a major league contract, that has to work in his favor.

HumnHilghtFreel
03-11-2007, 10:34 PM
BTW, Moeller has a major league contract, that has to work in his favor.

My heart breaks every time I hear that.

edabbs44
03-11-2007, 10:58 PM
Conine, Castro and Moeller would be the makings of a putrid bench.

Sea Ray
03-11-2007, 11:07 PM
there are only five reserve spots.

It looks as if Valentin, Conine and Castro are locks. If you add Hamilton there is one spot for the likes Denorfia, Bellhorn, Hopper, Moeller, Gile, etc.

BTW, Moeller has a major league contract, that has to work in his favor.

That assumes a 12 man staff. Are you sure that's set in stone?

flyer85
03-11-2007, 11:15 PM
That assumes a 12 man staff. Are you sure that's set in stone?I really don't think they can go long with 11, the Reds have a bunch of short relievers and with the lack of quality in the starting rotation I would think six in the pen would wear out quickly. Plus I hope they keep Burton.

penantboundreds
03-11-2007, 11:16 PM
Marty said today that there would not be three catchers on the major league roster...

flyer85
03-11-2007, 11:17 PM
Marty said today that there would not be three catchers on the major league roster...Gil makes a lot of sense as the 25th man.

Wheelhouse
03-11-2007, 11:24 PM
This is very true, i live in CT and watch a lot of yankee games unfortunatley, and he isnt that good. He is at best average. He makes the easiest plays look difficult and gets so much credit for it. The gold glove or gloves he won were as credible as the one rafael palmeiro one when he played like 40 games at first. Tino martinez was amazing that year and got snubbed.

Hmmm. Jeter made the most atheltic and greatest defensive play I've ever seen against the A's in the ALCS a few years back...

savafan
03-11-2007, 11:28 PM
Castro has no business being a lock for the 25 man roster.

flyer85
03-11-2007, 11:32 PM
Castro has no business being a lock for the 25 man roster.I agree ... however I don't think the FO sees it that way.

dougdirt
03-11-2007, 11:56 PM
Hmmm. Jeter made the most atheltic and greatest defensive play I've ever seen against the A's in the ALCS a few years back...

As long as you arent talking about the flip to the plate to get Giambi.... that wasnt nearly as athletic as it was smart.

Wheelhouse
03-12-2007, 12:59 AM
As long as you arent talking about the flip to the plate to get Giambi.... that wasnt nearly as athletic as it was smart.

Wait, wait, wait. Jeter was RUNNING as he closed in on the throw and dished off the ball perfectly behind him. What do you call athletic?

MartyFan
03-12-2007, 01:36 AM
If Gil has Jeter like defense at SS, then I surely hope he sticks in the OF becuase Jeter just isnt very good at SS.

I know...I've always thought that it is a shame that the Yankees best SS is playing 3B.

dougdirt
03-12-2007, 03:35 AM
Wait, wait, wait. Jeter was RUNNING as he closed in on the throw and dished off the ball perfectly behind him. What do you call athletic?

It was a very smart play, but I would say 90% of every other SS in baseball could have made the same play had they thought of it. Difference was Jeter thought to do it. Play was not nearly as athletic as it was smart.

Farney
03-12-2007, 09:36 AM
This is very true, i live in CT and watch a lot of yankee games unfortunatley, and he isnt that good. He is at best average. He makes the easiest plays look difficult and gets so much credit for it. The gold glove or gloves he won were as credible as the one rafael palmeiro one when he played like 40 games at first. Tino martinez was amazing that year and got snubbed.

Whoah, you must of forgotten about that play where he caught the ball then took a step and inexplicably dove 3 rows into the stands a couple years ago. ESPN themselves said that was the play of the year, so they must be right.

bucksfan2
03-12-2007, 10:13 AM
Changing the subject, wasn't Gil a highly thought of prospect at one point? Doesn't he still have options? If Gil doesn't make the club out of spring, he could go to AAA and provide the team with some depth. Maybe he could be part of some youth movement at some point this season. It would be nice to see him make the club instead of a guy like Castro but I just dont see it happening.

oneupper
03-12-2007, 10:24 AM
Gil has no plate discipline and some power. Younger and watered down version of Alex Gonzalez.

Send him to AAA. Use in emergencies only.

jojo
03-12-2007, 11:04 AM
Wait, wait, wait. Jeter was RUNNING as he closed in on the throw and dished off the ball perfectly behind him. What do you call athletic?


That was one of the greatest plays I've ever seen...both because of the situation/significance of when it occurred (and how it really changed the tone of the whole series) but also because I personally think there AREN'T many players who could've made that play for whatever reason.... it was a one of kind piece of special.... Those are the moments that make this game so very,very special.

That being said, I think Jeter is a good athlete....he's just not a good defensive shortstop. It's plays like the one above that largely cause many fans to greatly overrate him. He makes the occasional great play (because he is so athletic) and because he wears pinstripes, a gazillion people get to see it. Because he plays for the Yankees, many of those moments are often in a game that means something. While he's athletic though, he's fundamentally a train-wreck and often doesn't make the mundane plays that most of his colleagues convert... it's the plays Jeter doesn't make that really are the issue...

flyer85
03-12-2007, 12:38 PM
Gil has no plate discipline and some power... Castro has no plate discipline and no power.

hebroncougar
03-12-2007, 12:40 PM
I think he has to try to take a spot from Bellhorn, who may start on the 25.

That is essientially what Marty said on the radio yesterday, and he said Gil brings more to the table than Bellhorn.

HumnHilghtFreel
03-12-2007, 12:44 PM
It was a very smart play, but I would say 90% of every other SS in baseball could have made the same play had they thought of it. Difference was Jeter thought to do it. Play was not nearly as athletic as it was smart.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/51318

BubbaFan
03-12-2007, 07:45 PM
That being said, I think Jeter is a good athlete....he's just not a good defensive shortstop.

I agree. I love Jeter, but he's not as great on defense as his reputation. In particular, moving to his left. Baseball By the Numbers has a great line where one of the authors says his little daughter thought Jeter's first name was "Pastadiving." You know, "past a diving Jeter into center field..." :laugh:

Jeter has improved on defense in the past couple of years, though. He's gone from below to above average, if you believe BP's "rate" (my favorite defensive stat). Some wonder whether he's cheating a bit to his left, now that he has A-Rod on his right.

jojo
03-12-2007, 08:01 PM
I agree. I love Jeter, but he's not as great on defense as his reputation. In particular, moving to his left. Baseball By the Numbers has a great line where one of the authors says his little daughter thought Jeter's first name was "Pastadiving." You know, "past a diving Jeter into center field..." :laugh:

Jeter has improved on defense in the past couple of years, though. He's gone from below to above average, if you believe BP's "rate" (my favorite defensive stat). Some wonder whether he's cheating a bit to his left, now that he has A-Rod on his right.


I eschew BP's defensive stats for the pox on sabermetrics that they are...

In other words.... I don't believe they're very good.... everybody eventually has a clunker....Bill James has winshares and BP has their defensive stats...

:cool:

BubbaFan
03-12-2007, 08:18 PM
Well, all defensive stats are problematic. I like "rate" because it generally matches what I see with my eyes. Not all the time, of course...

Doc. Scott
03-12-2007, 08:33 PM
there are only five reserve spots.

It looks as if Valentin, Conine and Castro are locks. If you add Hamilton there is one spot for the likes Denorfia, Bellhorn, Hopper, Moeller, Gile, etc.

BTW, Moeller has a major league contract, that has to work in his favor.

There might be six if the team takes eleven pitchers (oh, please, let it be true). In that case, I don't see Bellhorn or anyone else beating out Crosby. Crosby is on a split (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubba_Crosby) deal that forces him to be on the 40-man but he doesn't have any options remaining (I don't think, having been called up in 2003 and optioned in both 2004 and 2005; the Yankees had to outright him in 2006 to get him to go to AAA), so it would seem he'd be exposed to waivers if he didn't make the 25-man.

Everyone else- Denorfia, Gil, Hopper, etc. -except Bellhorn- has options. Mark could choose to accept an assignment or decline it and become a free agent.

BubbaFan
03-12-2007, 08:51 PM
Bubba is out of options. That is basically the reason the Yanks let him go.

jojo
03-12-2007, 08:54 PM
Bubba is out of options. That is basically the reason the Yanks let him go.

Oh c'mon, that's not the ONLY reason... :cool:

Doc. Scott
03-12-2007, 09:04 PM
Oh c'mon, that's not the ONLY reason... :cool:

Well, that and the reason that he can't hit major-league pitching.

BubbaFan
03-12-2007, 09:20 PM
He can hit big league pitching. He does all right, when he gets regular playing time.

But the Yanks don't want contact hitters. They want sluggers. They live and die by the nuclear option.

I really think that's come back to bite them the past few years. Their offense is too one-dimensional. They have no plan B when plan A isn't working.

Like Game 5 in 2005. Torre called a hit and run. Bernie missed the signal, and Robbie Cano was hung out to dry. The next two batters walked, then Bubba had an RBI single. Which would have been a 2-RBI single if not for the botched hit and run.

But you can't really blame Bernie. You can't start doing things in the post-season that you didn't do in the regular season.

flyer85
03-12-2007, 09:57 PM
Bubba is out of options. That is basically the reason the Yanks let him go.... along with the he can't hit thing.

flyer85
03-12-2007, 09:59 PM
He can hit big league pitching. He does all right, when he gets regular playing time.Thanks for the input Mrs Crosby. :D

sonny
03-14-2007, 01:06 AM
I think Gil is "Jeter-like" only in the sense that they are both human beings and play baseball...

If thats the case, i'm very jeter like. or at least i was.

BubbaFan
03-14-2007, 07:46 AM
Thanks for the input Mrs Crosby. :D

You know, I have seen teenaged girls wearing jerseys like that around NY. Bubba's number, and "Mrs. Crosby" on the back. :laugh:

Me, I like the "authentic" Yankees jerseys. No name, only a number. Though it does leave people guessing. If you're wearing #19, are you a fan of Righetti? Bubba? Al Leiter? Aaron Boone? Hey, it's a good conversation starter....