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Tom Servo
03-16-2007, 11:32 AM
Not exactly earth shattering insight, but it is the first time I've seen a sports writer suggest what we've all been hoping will happen. He's a Philadelphia writer though, and he mixed up Burton and Salmon's names. Anyone have any interest in the guys available?


TICK, TICK, TICK. The Phillies have 2 weeks left in Florida. Their bullpen remains unsettled.

The Phillies are on the clock.

And while it's probably no consolation, they're not the only team looking for relief help.

That's why the scouts section at Scottsdale (Ariz.) Stadium was overflowing earlier this week when Armando Benitez pitched for the Giants. The Mariners and Marlins each had two scouts watching.

The Marlins have also been watching Jorge Julio, of the Diamondbacks.

The Red Sox, who still have no idea who their closer will be, reportedly have been eyeing San Diego's Scott Linebrink, Washington's Chad Cordero and Texas' Akinori Otsuka, although general manager Theo Epstein continues to say he doesn't expect to be able to do "anything big."

It's not hard to see why so many teams are looking for relief. Consider the Padres. The last 2 years, they've been second in the National League in bullpen ERA. Not so coincidentally, they won the division both times.

"I'm a huge believer that a strong bullpen helps you win games," general manager Kevin Towers said. "A weak bullpen is tough on your manager, tough on your starting pitchers. We've put a strong emphasis on putting our bullpen together."

The Padres, by the way, have been impressed by both outfielder Terrmel Sledge and third baseman Kevin Kouzmanoff this spring, making it unlikely that Linebrink will be dealt.

So what relievers might be available? Well, if the Reds decide to keep Jared Salmon and Brad Burton, they could move former Phillie Rheal Cormier. The Rockies might trade Byung-Hyun Kim, who, although used as a starter lately, has experience pitching in relief. Veteran Rudy Seanez has looked good for the Dodgers this spring, but doesn't appear to have a spot unless Los Angeles trades another reliever.

And the Rangers still look like a team that could have an excess of bullpen arms. And while they would be reluctant to trade Otsuka, there are already rumblings that they would let go of Rick Bauer or Scott Feldman for a veteran backup catcher. So if the Phillies don't have a spot for Chris Coste when it comes time to set the final roster, would anybody really be surprised to see him go to Texas for a pitcher?

membengal
03-16-2007, 11:34 AM
Move him! Move him!

Team Clark
03-16-2007, 11:39 AM
If Bray's shoulder is still sore I think Wayne will wait.

mth123
03-16-2007, 11:44 AM
I'd give Cormier back to Philly in a hearbeat. I'd throw in Shackelford if the Reds could get JA Happ in return.

On the available list. I like Byung Hyung Kim. I'd go after him for cheap and make him the closer. He wouldn't be great, but a clear choice that would set-up all the other roles would be helpful IMO.

Tom Servo
03-16-2007, 11:48 AM
On the available list. I like Byung Hyung Kim. I'd go after him for cheap and make him the closer. He wouldn't be great, but a clear choice that would set-up all the other roles would be helpful IMO.
I have been thinking the same thing for the last week or so since I heard Kim was available. His contract is through after this year and he has been a solid closer in the past, and the Rockies will probably just be looking to give him away. Could be worth a shot.

redsmetz
03-16-2007, 11:59 AM
Hardly a week goes by that I don't say Cormier will be moved. Now it has it's own thread!

Always Red
03-16-2007, 12:00 PM
If Bray's shoulder is still sore I think Wayne will wait.

First I've heard that Bray has a sore shoulder. What was in the water in D.C last summer??

This Cormier rumor is good news to me- I'd like to see them keep Burton, start Salmon off in AAA, and bring him up quickly if and when any of the wheezers faulter.

Joseph
03-16-2007, 12:06 PM
Jared Salmon? Brad Burton? Did they mate?

klw
03-16-2007, 12:07 PM
Plus Cormier had an Arroyoesque love of Philadelphia
http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/16842065.htm


And yes I do believe Arroyoesque is a word.

redsmetz
03-16-2007, 12:12 PM
Plus Cormier had an Arroyoesque love of Philadelphia
http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/16842065.htm


And yes I do believe Arroyoesque is a word.

Is that something like Rubensesque?

flyer85
03-16-2007, 12:21 PM
That would be a good thing because ... Burton is going to have to be part of the 25 man roster if they want to keep him.

The way he has pitched and with his nasty stuff there is no way he will pass through waivers and why would the A's want to work out a deal. I'm sure they want him back at this point.

mth123
03-16-2007, 12:42 PM
That would be a good thing because ... Burton is going to have to be part of the 25 man roster if they want to keep him.

The way he has pitched and with his nasty stuff there is no way he will pass through waivers and why would the A's want to work out a deal. I'm sure they want him back at this point.

You're probably right about the waivers. As for the A's, both teams owe the other a PTBNL as a part of the Saarloos trade. I wonder if it was pre-determined that Burton would be the guy if he didn't make the team.

hebroncougar
03-16-2007, 01:00 PM
Please let it happen.

flyer85
03-16-2007, 01:00 PM
You're probably right about the waivers. As for the A's, both teams owe the other a PTBNL as a part of the Saarloos trade. I wonder if it was pre-determined that Burton would be the guy if he didn't make the team.I am pretty sure he would still have to pass thru waivers before a trade could be made that would allow the Reds to send him out.

klw
03-16-2007, 01:02 PM
Is that something like Rubensesque?

No that would be davidwellsesque.

mth123
03-16-2007, 01:03 PM
I am pretty sure he would still have to pass thru waivers before a trade could be made that would allow the Reds to send him out.

I think you're right. I wonder who the PTBNLs will be now.

KoryMac5
03-16-2007, 01:06 PM
If Bray's shoulder is still sore I think Wayne will wait.

They do have to lefties stuck behind both Bray and Cormier in Countanglus who has pitched well and Shack who has been in the majors before. I don't think the Reds will stop there though.

boognish
03-16-2007, 04:04 PM
From what I saw of him in ST, Coutlangus has a nifty pickoff move and a deceptive delivery. As a converted OF, he is still learning to pitch, but I think in the LOOGY role (which Cormier does not fill terribly well anyway) he could be just fine.

Shack has been effective against LH in the past, but gets creamed by everyone else...I think Soriano's shot off of him last season is scheduled to land one of these days...

If there is any way to foist Cormier, his mediocre stuff, awful peripherals, and guaranteed 2.25 MM onto anyone else, Wayne should take advantage of it. Bray and Stanton are enough of an LH presence in the pen, and even if a third LHP were necessary, there are enough options down in the minors to approximate Cormier's potential contributions.

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
03-16-2007, 04:16 PM
First I've heard that Bray has a sore shoulder. What was in the water in D.C last summer??

This Cormier rumor is good news to me- I'd like to see them keep Burton, start Salmon off in AAA, and bring him up quickly if and when any of the wheezers faulter.
If you have a some time go to the nationals injury log from last year. If I remember right they had something like 7 or 8 shoulder injuries last year. My guess is it's something to do with either weight training or off season arm conditioning.

Johnny Footstool
03-16-2007, 04:23 PM
If you have a some time go to the nationals injury log from last year. If I remember right they had something like 7 or 8 shoulder injuries last year. My guess is it's something to do with either weight training or off season arm conditioning.

Maybe Bowden forced his pitching staff to help him move heavy furniture.

paulrichjr
03-16-2007, 05:02 PM
I have also not seen one thing about Bray being hurt this Spring. What is the deal with this? I'm sure he is day to day like Grif!

dougdirt
03-16-2007, 05:07 PM
Jared Salmon? Brad Burton? Did they mate?

Apparently so lol!

Falls City Beer
03-16-2007, 05:18 PM
This bullpen is a train wreck and will kill any potential momentum this team might otherwise build.

westofyou
03-16-2007, 06:04 PM
This bullpen is a train wreck and will kill any potential momentum this team might otherwise build.

Just like it did last June eh?

oneupper
03-16-2007, 09:09 PM
This bullpen is a train wreck and...

Also a convenient scapegoat for Narron (at least it was last year).

Javy Pornstache
03-17-2007, 01:15 AM
lol @ inconspicuously interchanging Burton and Salmon's first names in that article.

Team Clark
03-17-2007, 09:16 AM
I think Soriano's shot off of him last season is scheduled to land one of these days...

I contacted NASA and they were able to confirm that the ball did in fact disintegrate upon re-entry on 2/28/07. Of course this is after the ball traveled an estimated 34,982,434 feet. :laugh:

Team Clark
03-17-2007, 09:35 AM
I have also not seen one thing about Bray being hurt this Spring. What is the deal with this? I'm sure he is day to day like Grif!

Took me awhile to find it....


John Fay's Update:

INJURY UPDATE - Reds outfielder Ryan Freel sat out for the third straight game on Thursday, but said his left hamstring was feeling good enough to play - if it were the regular season.

"I wish I could play, but I'm not 100 percent," said Freel. "It is spring training, it's not during the season. I feel good hitting, so I'm not worried about it too much. I'd rather (return) a day too late than a day too early."

Elizardo Ramirez hasn't pitched since March 7 against the Yankees because he has a sore right shoulder. Left-handed reliever Bill Bray had been bothered by a sore shoulder, but said Thursday he's now fine. He hasn't pitched since March 8.

Reliever Gary Majewski is scheduled to throw live batting practice this weekend, but Narron said he's unsure if Majewski will be ready on Opening Day.

Tony Cloninger
03-17-2007, 10:34 AM
Well if Bray get's put on the DL then you do not have to worry about losing Burton.....and have more time to trade Cormier.

I agree with FCB....this bullpen looks pretty shaky to me. Very up and down......never know what your going to get from day to day.
And no....that is not a handy excuse for Narron to have. It is just a fact...and it forces him to have to guess who will be the "on" guy from the bullpen every night, while overworking those who are consistent enough to get people out. So we will basically have to read on every game thread how i would have put this guy or that guy in....even though more than half the time it is never that obvious who you can put in with such a bad bullpen.

Falls City Beer
03-17-2007, 10:38 AM
Well if Bray get's put on the DL then you do not have to worry about losing Burton.....and have more time to trade Cormier.

I agree with FCB....this bullpen looks pretty shaky to me. Very up and down......never know what your going to get from day to day.
And no....that is not a handy excuse for Narron to have. It is just a fact...and it forces him to have to guess who will be the "on" guy from the bullpen every night, while overworking those who are consistent enough to get people out. So we will basically have to read on every game thread how i would have put this guy or that guy in....even though more than half the time it is never that obvious who you can put in with such a bad bullpen.

Great post.

Narron's a fool, but it in no way changes the fact that he's working with a dogcrap bullpen.

And I know now's the time for optimism. I appreciate that. But the cold, hard facts are that, outside of the possible offensive surprise of Hamilton, this ballclub is basically a carbon copy of last year's club, which was an overachieving, highly mediocre squad.

edabbs44
03-17-2007, 10:41 AM
If Bray's shoulder is still sore I think Wayne will wait.

If Bray's shoulder is still sore I think WK will need a vacation.

OnBaseMachine
03-17-2007, 10:41 AM
Trade Cormier to anyone who is dumb enough to take him off our hands. This would free up a spot for Jared Burton, who has impressed me more than any other reliever on this squad this spring. His stuff looks very, very good. All of a sudden the Reds seem to have a nice collection of solid, young relievers: Todd Coffey, Brad Salmon, Jared Burton, and Matt Belisle (though I hope he is a starter) from the right side and Bill Bray from the left side. Jon Coutlangus, Calvin Medlock, and Carlos Guevara at Louisville are also decent prospects.

cacollinsmba
03-17-2007, 11:47 AM
Jon Coutlangus, Calvin Medlock, and Carlos Guevara at Louisville are also decent prospects.

Are you telling me we could have both Castro and Guevara on the team this season?

LawFive
03-17-2007, 11:59 AM
Maybe I'm getting mixed up, but I thought Cormier was given a no-trade with the extension, as part of his agreeing to come here last year?

Always Red
03-17-2007, 12:02 PM
Are you telling me we could have both Castro and Guevara on the team this season?

those two would be thick as thieves...;)

corkedbat
03-17-2007, 12:23 PM
Took me awhile to find it....


I'd love it if they got anything whatsoever for Cormier - just move him!

Bray's shoulder concerns me a little, but I'm just as comfortable with Shackleford. With Coutangus, Dumatrait and possibly Pelland at Louisville plus Ready Eddie and Mercker re-habbing I'll chance it.

Personally, I'd hate to send Burton back to the A's with Cormier still on the roster. I think there are too many young arms with alot more potential to give innings to a journeyman hack like him or Wilson. IMO, Coffey, Bray. Salmon, Coutlangus and hopefully Burton (really like his stuff) are the future of this pen (not to mention starter candidates like Belisle, Ramierez, Santos, etc.).

After this Spring I'm a little more optomistic about the chances of this team (mainly because the other division opponents don't scare me much), but I still think the central focus of this franchise should be on the future.

Krusty
03-18-2007, 09:28 AM
Makes you wonder why Krivsky signed Cormier to an extension in the first place?

The guy to watch out for is Coutangus. Since Krivsky acquired him a year ago from the Giants, he might be a sleeper in regards to a solid bullpen arm.

Redsland
03-18-2007, 09:58 AM
Maybe I'm getting mixed up, but I thought Cormier was given a no-trade with the extension, as part of his agreeing to come here last year?
The Reds don't give no-trade clauses, as a matter of policy.

Redsland
03-18-2007, 09:59 AM
Fay (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070318/COL09/703180411/1071)is on board.

If I'm running the Reds, I'm trying to trade Rheal Cormier to ease the roster crunch.

corkedbat
03-18-2007, 10:17 AM
34 walks in 16 games - pretty impressive.

I'm going to hay a fit if Milton and/or Cormier take up a roster spot, but I'm resigned to rhe presence of Milton (at least until the trade deadline). I would expect the fifth starter at Louisville to be Belisle or Santos instead of Gosling if the don't make the roster.

Chip R
03-18-2007, 10:18 AM
Fay (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070318/COL09/703180411/1071)is on board.


I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

TheWalls
03-18-2007, 12:15 PM
We've got enough lefties. Ship him out.

KronoRed
03-18-2007, 01:11 PM
I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

Considering other things Fay has said..it's bad..and likely to never happen

Redsland
03-18-2007, 05:37 PM
Considering other things Fay has said..it's bad..and likely to never happen
:owned:

sonny
03-20-2007, 01:57 AM
Man, Its threads like these that make me feel like a youngster, in the back of my parents' stationwagon. We'd be driving toward the local McDonald's around dinnertime and I'd ask "Are we going to McDonalds?" Dad would reply "maybe" and then we would drive right on by it and turn into Grandma's house and had green beans with little ham chunks in it.

In any event, Cormier's not going anywhere.

Tom Servo
03-22-2007, 07:31 AM
Tigers could be interested in Rheal:


Like a poker player happily counting his blue chips, there has been a vision of Dave Dombrowski, the Tigers' general manager, sitting at the table, puffing contentedly on an expensive cigar, waiting to add to his baseball team's bounty because of its surplus of pitching.

It also has been thought that Dombrowski and the Tigers could make a late spring-training trade as an answer to a pair of preferences for this year's 25-man roster: a left-hand reliever, and a left-hand-hitting outfielder.

The image and baseball reality nine days before the Tigers head north may not, in fact, mesh.

Baseball's trade market is likely to be slow through next week, and remain so, until the usual pre-deadline shopping spree begins in late July.

The Tigers would still love to add a left-hand situational reliever to compensate for Jamie Walker's free-agent exit to Baltimore. Their plans there probably evaporated Sunday when Rule 5 lefty Edward Campusano left a game against Atlanta with pain in his throwing elbow.

That leaves the Tigers, today, with limited left-hand bullpen options. Wilfredo Ledezma is sure to make the staff but will be used in long relief, exclusively. Of the veteran situational left-handers who have worked this spring, only Bobby Seay has pitched with anything approximating the expertise Leyland and the Tigers are seeking.

It could mean the Tigers will go north with six right-handers and Ledezma when they break camp. And that extra right-hander could end up being Chad Durbin, who pitched last season at Triple-A and who is out of options.

The Tigers would no doubt be tempted to trade Durbin next week rather than expose him to the waiver wire. But the demand for Durbin figures to be light when qualified veterans such as Jon Lieber of the Phillies cant seem to inspire pitching-hungry teams such as the Blue Jays, Orioles, Rangers, etc.

Left-hand relievers are, typically, in short supply, which is the biggest reason why the Tigers may well head north with either Durbin or Seay as their 12th pitcher.

The Cincinnati Reds will no doubt take calls concerning Rheal Cormier, who next month turns 40. Cormier had a fine season last year for the Phillies (2.44 earned-run average in 64 games) and has a 1.50 ERA in six games this spring for the Reds. Whether the Tigers are interested, or are inclined to part with Cincinnati's asking price, are open questions.

The Tigers are likely including Marcus Thames in any trade discussions as they look for left-hand help in the bullpen and outfield. But most teams will be inclined to go with players already in camp as they form their 25-man rosters.

Thames, like Durbin, will find that he is not the only player on the block. And one of those available players, Jacque Jones of the Cubs, might be an answer for the Tigers as they hunt for left-hand outfield and bench help.

Jones, however, will make $4 million this season and $5 million in 2008. The Tigers will no doubt decide that Jones' salary is better off being Chicago's responsibility.

The same disposition will be taken by most clubs to two more players who will be brought to the curb as part of March's Major League Garage Sale: Kevin Mench of the Brewers ($3.4 million in 2007) and Kansas Citys Reggie Sanders ($5 million). That translates, potentially, into added interest in Thames ($342,000).

The question for Dombrowski is whether the poker game is likely to be more lucrative now, or later, and later is probably Dombrowski's disposition, as it seems to be for most GMs who have shown no signs of being in a hurry to trade.

The heat will intensify, as it always does, in July, when contending teams get hungry for a player who might be their ticket into the playoffs, and non-contenders decide to cut their losses and rid themselves of players and salaries that don't figure in their short- or long-term interests.

"I don't think we have as much pitching depth as some people think," Tigers manager Jim Leyland said last week, responding to suggestions the Tigers would soon be trading some of their excess arms.

Leyland's words are looking more sage by the day. Jordan Tata, Virgil Vasquez, Eulogio De La Cruz, and very likely Zach Miner, have either been sent to the minors, or will be soon. The Tigers are finding that showcasing players in March is not much more productive than shopping for players during spring training.

A deal or two could yet be made, but baseball's marketplace this week suggests commerce will be on the slow side.

coachw513
03-22-2007, 07:54 AM
First, thanks for the info on this and Deno...

I tend to take these things as a grain of salt...trades tend to happen when rumors of them aren't being spoken of...it's like the NFL Draft talk right now...95% of the chatter is nothing more than trial balloons or outright lies put out by GM's and agents who are purposely keeping the lights off...

cacollinsmba
03-22-2007, 09:13 AM
Tigers could be interested in Rheal:

Leyland said yesterday he's ok with putting Thames at 1B. Would the Reds work some type of a deal of Cormier for Thames and put him at 1B?

gobucks106
03-22-2007, 12:10 PM
Why would we want Thames at first with Votto waiting in the wings, most likely our starting 1B in 2008.

cacollinsmba
03-22-2007, 12:43 PM
Why would we want Thames at first with Votto waiting in the wings, most likely our starting 1B in 2008.

It would clear Cormier out of the bullpen and cut salary, plus give us more power out of 1B.

TeamSelig
03-22-2007, 12:53 PM
No way would they give us Thames for Cormier.

I'd say we will end up with a Rookie ball half way prospect

cacollinsmba
03-22-2007, 01:08 PM
No way would they give us Thames for Cormier.

I'd say we will end up with a Rookie ball half way prospect

In my post I said "some type of deal" which implies not a one-for-one deal. I agree, they would be insane to do that deal straight up.

TeamSelig
03-22-2007, 01:20 PM
Ohh okay, my bad.

Jim
03-22-2007, 02:01 PM
No way would they give us Thames for Cormier.

I'd say we will end up with a Rookie ball half way prospect

Works with me. Deal Cormier and keep Burton on the roster. Besides, you could get someone literally half Cormier's age!

REDREAD
03-22-2007, 02:11 PM
Why would we want Thames at first with Votto waiting in the wings, most likely our starting 1B in 2008.

Because the Reds need to collect as much young talent as possible.
I'm not familiar with Thames, but if we were to get him and both Thames and Votto turned out to be legit ML 1b, then the Reds have a great problem.

If a .500ish club like Cincy can flip someone like Cormier for young talent, it has to do it, regardless of the teams' needs.

Again, I am unfamiliar with Thames, and am too lazy to look him up now. :)

bucksfan2
03-22-2007, 02:25 PM
Because the Reds need to collect as much young talent as possible.
I'm not familiar with Thames, but if we were to get him and both Thames and Votto turned out to be legit ML 1b, then the Reds have a great problem.

If a .500ish club like Cincy can flip someone like Cormier for young talent, it has to do it, regardless of the teams' needs.

Again, I am unfamiliar with Thames, and am too lazy to look him up now. :)

If that happens it would remind me of a situation not too long ago when they had Casey at 1b and traded for Konerko. Unfortunatly the reds made the wrong decision.

OnBaseMachine
03-25-2007, 12:18 AM
Trade talk

Lefthanded relief pitcher Rheal Cormier has made eight appearances this spring over six innings but may be an odd-man out in the Reds scheme. He was scratched from schedule appearances Saturday and today and has made three minor-league appearances.

Other teams have interest in him, including Detroit and Philadelphia, the team that traded him to the Reds.

Asked about possible trades, general manager Wayne Krivsky said, "Teams are at the point in spring training where they are looking to fill holes, so there is a lot of talk. I'm looking for health, not trades. We can pick our team from what is here, if they're all healthy."

http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/reds/2007/03/24/ddn032507redsnotesforweb.html

Stewie
03-25-2007, 08:13 AM
Trade talk

Lefthanded relief pitcher Rheal Cormier has made eight appearances this spring over six innings but may be an odd-man out in the Reds scheme. He was scratched from schedule appearances Saturday and today and has made three minor-league appearances.

Other teams have interest in him, including Detroit and Philadelphia, the team that traded him to the Reds.

Asked about possible trades, general manager Wayne Krivsky said, "Teams are at the point in spring training where they are looking to fill holes, so there is a lot of talk. I'm looking for health, not trades. We can pick our team from what is here, if they're all healthy."

http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/reds/2007/03/24/ddn032507redsnotesforweb.html

ugh. That would be classic Phillies management, though. Trade Cormier for Justin German, allow Germano to leave without getting anything in return, and then trade to get Cormier back.

BoxingRed
03-25-2007, 08:52 AM
Looks like B-H Kim is very unhappy being moved to the middle reliever spot with the Rockies. I'd much rather have Kim in the 5th rotation spot than Cormier in the bullpen. I believe, however, they have their mandatory-veteran-lefty-out-of-the-pen spot filled with Tom Martin.

Tom Servo
03-25-2007, 10:37 AM
It seems a possible Cormier trade will be depend on whether or not Bill Bray will be healthy by opening day.

TC81190
03-25-2007, 11:52 AM
I'd love to get both Kim and the aforementioned Rudy Seanez, who's out of place in LA. Dumping Cormier would just be gravy.

Dracodave
03-25-2007, 11:57 AM
Kim would make a pretty good closer for us..or he could take miltons place (without missing a step really).

TC81190
03-25-2007, 12:01 PM
Kim would make a pretty good closer for us..or he could take miltons place (without missing a step really).

I'd rather put both Saarloos and Belisle in until one or both implodes then try Kim. I think he could serve us better in relief, which is the area of more concern right now (which is funny to say.)

BEETTLEBUG
03-25-2007, 12:21 PM
I AGREE WITH YOU TC81190 WE DON'T NEED Kim