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View Full Version : Ohio State vs. Xavier - Wow!



PickOff
03-17-2007, 03:34 PM
What a game. I thought OSU was sunk for sure. They were on their heels all game, not able to finish around the hoop.

Key Plays:

-Conley steal in regulation to help pull them to within one on the three point play
-Xavier miss on the second of two
-Lewis awesome three pointer to tie


Kind of feel bad for Xavier, but man what a game.

Reds4Life
03-17-2007, 03:37 PM
Oden should have gotten a technical on the last play of regulation. He threw a player off the court without even making an attempt for the ball. I can't stand Xavier, but that was an intentional foul by Oden.

OnBaseMachine
03-17-2007, 03:39 PM
Refs screwed Xavier.

Oden apparantly can get away with murder.

RedsIn07
03-17-2007, 03:39 PM
Oden should have gotten a technical on the last play of regulation. He threw a player off the court without even making an attempt for the ball. I can't stand Xavier, but that was an intentional foul by Oden.

My thoughts also, OS got very lucky with that call. The game basically should have been over after that.

Hollcat
03-17-2007, 03:39 PM
X got screwed, Oden would have gotten dq'd in the WWE for that, amazing that officials are afraide to make that call.

Grounds_Crew
03-17-2007, 03:40 PM
WOW! I nearly had a mother truckin' heart attack. Ron Lewis is THE MAN! I cannot believe it. The only thing to say here is March Madness got it's name because of games just like THAT!

That was an incredible game...ending...and a great showing by Mike Conley Jr. in OT!



RON LEWIS, I love you!

OnBaseMachine
03-17-2007, 03:42 PM
I always liked Oden because he seemed likea good guy, but today he proved he is nothing but a punk IMO. I'm neutral when it comes to OSU basketball but that move totally turned me against them.

Puffy
03-17-2007, 03:44 PM
I always liked Oden because he seemed likea good guy, but today he proved he is nothing but a punk IMO. I'm neutral when it comes to OSU basketball but that move totally turned me against them.

Come on - I agree 1000% that was an intentional foul. But it doesn't make him a punk. He tried to make an obvious foul and yes I'm sure the velocity of it was influenced by frustration, but I don't think that makes him a punk

Matt700wlw
03-17-2007, 03:44 PM
Refs screwed Xavier.

Oden apparantly can get away with murder.

It was a bad call, but if Cage makes both free throws, it's a non-issue.

PickOff
03-17-2007, 03:44 PM
X got screwed, Oden would have gotten dq'd in the WWE for that, amazing that officials are afraide to make that call.

I completely disagree. It was a hard obvious foul, but not malicious, and the ball was right there. They don't make that call in that situation no matter who is the one that fouls. The calls throughout the game certainly did not go OSU's way, and you could even argue that Xavier benifited from the calls.

traderumor
03-17-2007, 03:45 PM
I only heard the OSU radio, but it sounds like David Lighty was fouled and it wasn't called, not sure what the Oden complaint is, but they did not say a thing about it on the radio.

PickOff
03-17-2007, 03:46 PM
I always liked Oden because he seemed likea good guy, but today he proved he is nothing but a punk IMO. I'm neutral when it comes to OSU basketball but that move totally turned me against them.


I can't beleive the main topic of discussion is Oden's hard foul.

traderumor
03-17-2007, 03:48 PM
I always liked Oden because he seemed likea good guy, but today he proved he is nothing but a punk IMO. I'm neutral when it comes to OSU basketball but that move totally turned me against them.That's rational.

Grounds_Crew
03-17-2007, 03:48 PM
I'm just incredibly excited that OSU made such an incredible come back. That was quite possibly one of the best games I've ever watched.

Spring~Fields
03-17-2007, 03:49 PM
I only heard the OSU radio, but it sounds like David Lighty was fouled and it wasn't called, not sure what the Oden complaint is, but they did not say a thing about it on the radio.

Was glad the Oden show fouled out, Ohio State played better without him. They looked like the Ohio State before the bunny shot misser came along.

OnBaseMachine
03-17-2007, 03:49 PM
I shouldn't have called him a punk because I really don't think he is, but it was a punk foul. A nudge would have been just fine as opposed to pushing him into the media section.

kbrake
03-17-2007, 03:51 PM
X fans cry a little more about it. Holy crap. Lighty got his legs taken out right before the thing with Oden happened and it was a no call. Would have ended the game for OSU if X could make 2 free throws. Then in OT Butler gets tackled right in front of the ref and again no call. X choked and has no one but themselves to blame.

traderumor
03-17-2007, 03:52 PM
btw, it is just amazing to see the Oden comments considering the beating he took game after game in the Big 10. I don't know that I could keep my cool with what he puts up with game after game.

This foul occurred at the end of the game when they had to foul, and even not seeing it as of yet, the call would be an intentional foul, not a technical, which is rarely called at the end of the game.

Redlegs23
03-17-2007, 03:53 PM
Should've been an intentional which would've decided the game, but regardless Xavier crapped their pants down the stretch while Lewis & Conley came up big. If I were an X fan I'd be irate about the non intentional call, but if Cage makes his free throws it's a non-issue.

redhawkfish
03-17-2007, 03:54 PM
X fans cry a little more about it. Holy crap. Lighty got his legs taken out right before the thing with Oden happened and it was a no call. Would have ended the game for OSU if X could make 2 free throws. Then in OT Butler gets tackled right in front of the ref and again no call. X choked and has no one but themselves to blame.

I think it was an intentional foul, but you are correct Xavier had it won. They came apart when they quit running there offense and started taking the air out of the ball.

PickOff
03-17-2007, 03:56 PM
I'm just incredibly excited that OSU made such an incredible come back. That was quite possibly one of the best games I've ever watched.

It is definitely up there. A very evenly played game, competitive throughout with plenty of big moments.

By looking at the box score it seems that turnovers were a big negative for OSU, and foul shooting for Xavier - otherwise it was pretty even.

Now if Oden would just stop travelling.

LoganBuck
03-17-2007, 03:57 PM
I only heard the OSU radio, but it sounds like David Lighty was fouled and it wasn't called, not sure what the Oden complaint is, but they did not say a thing about it on the radio.

Yep, they should have called a foul, Lighty was mugged.

Oden's foul was hard but nonetheless X should have made their free throws. Calling him a punk is just sour grapes.

I saw the first 5 minutes and the last 1:30 of regulation. I was called away, on a bovine maternity run, and was stunned that OSU was trailing when I came back. X must have played a whale of a game. Did Hunter foul out too?

Conley and Lewis were just money.

BuckeyeRed27
03-17-2007, 03:57 PM
Incredible comeback. Connolly stealing that inbounds pass changed the entire game (that and Cage choking on the free throw line).

Claims of an intentional foul on Oden by X fans and the refs screwing them is pretty lame. Lightly got hammered the play before and should have been on the free throw line anyways (thus screwing OSU). Oden's foul was hard but he went for the ball.

Reds4Life
03-17-2007, 04:00 PM
Claims of an intentional foul on Oden by X fans and the refs screwing them is pretty lame.

I'm not an X fan. When you throw a player 8 feet backwards from a 2 hand push, that's an intentional foul. If that was Oden who was pushed OSU fans would be having a stroke right now.

Puffy
03-17-2007, 04:02 PM
Incredible comeback. Connolly stealing that inbounds pass changed the entire game (that and Cage choking on the free throw line).

Claims of an intentional foul on Oden by X fans and the refs screwing them is pretty lame. Lightly got hammered the play before and should have been on the free throw line anyways (thus screwing OSU). Oden's foul was hard but he went for the ball.

I don't anyone here claiming an intentional foul is a Xavier fan. And there is no way Oden was going for the ball. No way. He was doing what any smart player needed to do - foul to stop the clock.

But he body blocked Cage and sent him 4 to six feet backwards in the air. Literally lifted him off his feet. He was not going for the ball and to say he was, well, I can't even fathom that rational. If it was the other way around I can guarantee you'd be screaming something different.

Xavier lost that game because they went into a "four corners" way too early and left their game plan and because Cage missed that second free throw and Ohio State came up BIG.

But it doesn't change that was an intentional foul and that intentional foul has NOTHING to do with the rest of the game, with Lighty being fouled or not or anything else - regardless what else happened in that game that was still an intentional foul.

LoganBuck
03-17-2007, 04:03 PM
I'm not an X fan. When you throw a player 8 feet backwards from a 2 hand push, that's an intentional foul. If that was Oden who was pushed OSU fans would be having a stroke right now.

You aren't exactly unbiased against OSU either..........

Grounds_Crew
03-17-2007, 04:05 PM
http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/basketball/college/img10066456.jpg

kbrake
03-17-2007, 04:09 PM
You dont have to be an X fan to hate all that is Ohio State, the way many on this board do. I would never say he was going for the ball, but I dont think you most the time when your trying to stop the clock. I just dont think it was as bad as you guys are making it out to be and to say the "refs screwed X" is laughable.

BuckeyeRed27
03-17-2007, 04:13 PM
You dont have to be an X fan to hate all that is Ohio State, the way many on this board do. I would never say he was going for the ball, but I dont think you most the time when your trying to stop the clock. I just dont think it was as bad as you guys are making it out to be and to say the "refs screwed X" is laughable.

Saying going for the ball might not be the best way to put it but that the foul wasn't malicious it was just hard. An intentional foul call in that situation would have been an awful call. Players decide games not refs and that foul wasn't intentional to the point that X should have been given the win. They had their chance they blew it. Good season see you next year.

PickOff
03-17-2007, 04:13 PM
ALL fouls to stop the clock are "intentional". The refs should not and don't call intentional fouls at the end of the game. Who wants a game to be decided by an intentional foul? And how many times have we seen players hug another player while "going for the ball". So long as the player has the ball, and the foul is not malicious, they won't make the call at the end of the game, and they usually don't make the call when the player doesn't have the ball.

If it were the other way around, and it happened to OSU, I would still feel that way. It is easy for me to say that now, but it is still true.

Grounds_Crew
03-17-2007, 04:20 PM
ALL fouls to stop the clock are "intentional". The refs should not and don't call intentional fouls at the end of the game. Who wants a game to be decided by an intentional foul? And how many times have we seen players hug another player while "going for the ball". So long as the player has the ball, and the foul is not malicious, they won't make the call at the end of the game, and they usually don't make the call when the player doesn't have the ball.

If it were the other way around, and it happened to OSU, I would still feel that way. It is easy for me to say that now, but it is still true.

Very well said!

...and I agree!

PickOff
03-17-2007, 04:23 PM
They just showed the foul and talked about it on CBS. They are agreed, and yes Kellogg is an Ohio State guy, that the refs made the right call.

Kellogg said they could have called an intentional foul, but because of the physical nature of the game and that the refs had been letting them play, it would have been inconsistent and the wrong call.

The other guy said that Oden was going enough for the ball that it shouldn't have been an intentional call.

Redlegs23
03-17-2007, 04:44 PM
Oden's foul was hard but he went for the ball.

I don't think he was going for the ball, he was just trying to get a foul quickly & he chucked him. Probably should've been an intentional IMO, and I even found myself pulling for OSU at the end because I'm a UC fan and I didn't want to face the X fans at work on Monday if they would've won.

Edit: Just saw the replay, he actually did reach in for the ball. He put a little shoulder into it, but I'm not so sure it was an intentional after seeing the replay again.

Puffy
03-17-2007, 05:06 PM
After watching it again I still think it was an intentional foul, however, I agree with what Seth Davis said that they would have had to eject Oden if they called it intentional and I don't think that warranted an ejection (even though he fouled out on the play which makes this point irrelevant).

guttle11
03-17-2007, 05:15 PM
Oden at least made it look like he was going for the ball, therefore, it was not an "intentional" foul. His intent was not to harm Cage (like the Duke player), so it was not a flagrant foul.

It was a hard foul, pure and simple.

Lighty was knocked sideways just before that, and Butler was ran over by Doellman in the OT, with no call. It was "tackle basketball" out there.

Caveat Emperor
03-17-2007, 05:18 PM
I hate Ohio State as much as anyone on here, but I don't think the refs did anything out of the ordinary not calling an intentional foul on Oden. You're never going to see a ref make that kind of call at the end of a close game like that.

Oh well...still plenty more shots for Ohio State to disappoint their fans in a second sport this year. I remain optomistic!

traderumor
03-17-2007, 05:29 PM
I saw the play in question on a replay, and there was nothing malicious there. It just wasn't. It was doing whatever it took to foul and stop the clock with 9 seconds left. Oden is 7 feet 280 pounds, if he fouls someone, they usually do feel it. An intentional foul there would have been cheesier than kraft mac and cheese.

Spring~Fields
03-17-2007, 07:17 PM
Oh well...still plenty more shots for Ohio State to disappoint their fans in a second sport this year. I remain optomistic!


I think that Kansas and Florida are lurking out there somewhere! :scared:

Razor Shines
03-17-2007, 07:24 PM
I'm not an X fan. When you throw a player 8 feet backwards from a 2 hand push, that's an intentional foul. If that was Oden who was pushed OSU fans would be having a stroke right now.

If a Duke player did what Oden did, there would be a website and a youtube video of it and some losers rapping about how Duke sucks.

dabvu2498
03-17-2007, 08:24 PM
After watching it again I still think it was an intentional foul, however, I agree with what Seth Davis said that they would have had to eject Oden if they called it intentional and I don't think that warranted an ejection (even though he fouled out on the play which makes this point irrelevant).

Intentional fouls do not warrant automatic ejections. Flagrant fouls do.

IMO, it was intentional. And as someone said earlier, most fouls at the end of games are, but that one was a bit more eggregious than your average stop the clock foul.

HotCorner
03-17-2007, 09:33 PM
I'm still surprised X didn't foul OSU after Cage missed the second free throw and not give the Buckeyes even a chance to tie.

redsfanfalcon
03-17-2007, 09:46 PM
What humors me is seeing all of these Xavier fans (I was there) at the game saying how they hate the Buckeyes, when in reality these are probably the same people cheering the Bucks on in football. Go figure. What a great game, great atmosphere, and wonderful effort by Xavier. They have a lot to be proud of. But I still say...GO BUCKS!

smith288
03-17-2007, 10:22 PM
It wasnt flagrant. Intentional? Yes as are all late game stop the clock type of fouls. But i dont believe Oden is a bad person trying to hurt anyone.

To indict Oden because of that rather than look at his whole body of work as a person is rediculous.

reds1869
03-17-2007, 10:35 PM
I'm an X fan who was crushed after the game (though as a Marshall alum you think I'd be used to losing in hoops by now). The Muskies played a monster game against the #1 team in the land. After reflecting on it for an evening I'm quite proud, though still disappointed. What could have been is quite painful...good luck to the Bucks in the Sweet 16.

paintmered
03-17-2007, 10:39 PM
You aren't exactly unbiased against OSU either..........

Wait...you are accusing a UC fan of rooting for Xavier?!? Do you root for Michigan? I don't think so.

:bowrofl:

traderumor
03-17-2007, 11:30 PM
I think that Kansas and Florida are lurking out there somewhere! :scared:They have to make it through their brackets first. With the balance in the NCAA, the tournament is better than ever. Anyone can beat anyone.

paintmered
03-17-2007, 11:49 PM
They have to make it through their brackets first. With the balance in the NCAA, the tournament is better than ever. Anyone can beat anyone.

Agreed. It's been very fun to watch. :thumbup:

Razor Shines
03-17-2007, 11:53 PM
It wasnt flagrant. Intentional? Yes as are all late game stop the clock type of fouls. But i dont believe Oden is a bad person trying to hurt anyone.

To indict Oden because of that rather than look at his whole body of work as a person is rediculous.

Maybe I missed it but who said Oden was a bad person or trying to hurt someone? It should have been called intentional I think, he extended his arms and pushed the guy. You can't do that, I think he was frustrated for not getting a foul call for him on the put back, but I definitely don't think he's a bad person.

I could care less about Xavier or OSU, I'm just saying what I think.

Reds Freak
03-17-2007, 11:57 PM
I had mixed emotions going into the game because I am both an OSU and Xavier fan but definately found myself pulling for Xavier the whole game. I just really thought they were a fun team to watch throughout the year. Sean Miller has done a tremendous job and I hope he is around a while. I think I became more of a Xavier fan after the game. They have an exciting future with Lavender, Burrell, Duncan, Raymond, and Brown returning and Graves getting healthy next year and new recruits like Dante Jackson should make for a pretty good team in the next few years.

Caseyfan21
03-18-2007, 12:43 AM
Wow, I was at the game...what a game from both ends. I saw the Oden foul but not up close (I was in the upper deck). After watching the replays on TV I'm not really sure what the X fans can cry about. At that point Oden made a hard foul as fast as he could to stop the clock. Whether it appeared intentional is debatable and up to each person's own interpretation. But really, when a team is down at the end of the game every foul could be called intentional if you want to get specific. I don't think a ref would ever call an intentional foul at the end of a game like that unless a player just absolutely wrapped up another player and tackled them. There's no way they call an intentional foul for a shove, absolutely no way. As for Xavier, they played a heck of a game. Nailed a lot of big 3's to pull ahead and caused the Bucks lots of match up problems. I think Oden going out helped OSU on defense because he obviously can't be expected to guard shorter quicker guys that can handle it. He only matches up well with other big horses like say Sims from Michigan. In that regard he will be fine in the NBA because he won't have to guard forwards that can shoot it but now in the tournament it really hurts OSU if a team goes small against them. Hopefully if a similar situation arises Thad can get Lighty some more PT and use Oden more appropriately. Great game though, so glad I made the trip down there and I can't wait for Thursday. And again, heck of a game by Xavier but I honestly don't think there was anyway that an intentional foul would have been called.

Reds Freak
03-18-2007, 01:28 AM
It was obvious that the foul was intentional but there is no way that they can call an intentional foul in that situation. I'm not sure what the official writing of the rule is but I think officials across the board need to become more consistent of what is an intentional foul and what isn't. Some call it way too freely while others won't call it at all.

Now if I can just seperate myself from the majority of the Ohio State fans for a few weeks, I can root for OSU to bring home the title.

bucksfan
03-18-2007, 10:48 AM
Incredible clutch plays by Lewis! He seemed so calm and determined those last few minutes of regulation. Definitely an admirable performance. X played the Buckeyes extremely tough and were within 1 FT of winning. Great game, esp by Cage. I thought he played very smart and Miller, aside from the offensive strategy near the end of regulation, proved to be a very good coach (I had not seen much of his team this year).

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 11:13 AM
It wasnt flagrant. Intentional? Yes as are all late game stop the clock type of fouls. But i dont believe Oden is a bad person trying to hurt anyone.




I don't either....he's just a beast. Very strong, very big, and an agressive player. Was the foul rougher than neccessary? Probably. However, that was an intense game....both clubs wanted the win, and wanted it badly.

max venable
03-18-2007, 11:59 AM
Yeah...let's blame the refs for this one. Doesn't matter that X squandered a nine-point lead in less than three minutes. Doesn't matter that the refs didn't call the foul on Oden prior to his foul. Doesn't matter that they missed a free throw that would have sealed it. Doesn't matter that they couldn't defend Lewis on the final shot. Doesn't matter that they never thought to foul someone in those last three seconds. Nah...let's blame the refs. WE GOT SCREWED!

But...if the shoe was on the other foot...I'd be whining about it, too. That's the wonderful world of sports.

OnBaseMachine
03-18-2007, 12:23 PM
FWIW, I'm not a Xavier fan.

redsfan30
03-18-2007, 12:40 PM
Whoever said earlier that Oden can apparently get away with murder obvoiusly has not watched a single Ohio State game before yesterday.

redsfan1966
03-18-2007, 02:19 PM
I already am sick of the "two angry guys" crying about X vs. OSU...I will admit that when I first saw the Oden foul (sound was down on TV, was listening to the Redlegs)I said "Intentional", and I am an OSU fan...but lets not forget X "spit the bit" in the extra session...

LoganBuck
03-18-2007, 03:30 PM
Wait...you are accusing a UC fan of rooting for Xavier?!? Do you root for Michigan? I don't think so.

:bowrofl:

There wasn't anything about rooting FOR Xavier, it was rooting AGAINST Ohio State.

guttle11
03-18-2007, 06:24 PM
I saw the play on YouTube.

Simply put, Oden bumped Cage with his chest first. End of discussion. That's not an intentional foul.

When he extended his arms, it was up to the referee to decide if his intent was to hurt Cage. That's a judgment call, and in a game that was an intense and physical as that one, you can't call that. Both teams were banging, pushing, and shoving all game long.

GAC
03-18-2007, 08:00 PM
Whoever said earlier that Oden can apparently get away with murder obvoiusly has not watched a single Ohio State game before yesterday.

Exactly. Teams have been manhandling/muscling him all year. But that's good. If he can't handle it on the college level, then he'll find it even tougher in the NBA.

dsmith421
03-19-2007, 02:35 AM
X fans cry a little more about it. Holy crap. Lighty got his legs taken out right before the thing with Oden happened and it was a no call. Would have ended the game for OSU if X could make 2 free throws. Then in OT Butler gets tackled right in front of the ref and again no call. X choked and has no one but themselves to blame.

Not a single Xavier fan (to my knowledge) had posted in this thread prior to you.

Lighty looked like he slipped to me and contact was incidental (let me clarify that: he appeared to be falling to the floor before Doellman touched him...it could well have been called). Oden's foul probably looked worse than it actually was, but I certainly have seen intentional fouls given in that situation before.

Regardless, I think the talking point has to be XU's loss of composure down the stretch. Doellman's lazy inbounds pass to Lavender was an absolute killer.

In any event, anyone blasting Justin Cage needs to look at the box score. He played one of the finest college basketball games I've seen in a long time, and if OSU doesn't hit a really low-percentage shot, his final miss would have been academic.

registerthis
03-19-2007, 11:25 AM
If a Duke player did what Oden did, there would be a website and a youtube video of it and some losers rapping about how Duke sucks.

Yeah, because OSU doesn't have any haters or anything... :rolleyes:

registerthis
03-19-2007, 11:29 AM
Four pages into this discussion, and hardly a mention of the two most important plays in that game:

-Cage's missed free throw
-Lewis's clutch 3 pointer

If either of those things turn out differently, no one would be uttering a word about Oden and his foul. And this also doesn't address Conley's plat in OT that essentially won the game for the Bucks.

It was an amazing game, but I don't feel bad for Xavier because they more than had their chance. Shoot, fouling OSU before a shot was attempted on the last play likely would have won the game for them.

Hopewfully, this is the wake-up call the Bucks needed, and they can get back on track. It certainly doesn't get any easier from here on out.

Puffy
03-19-2007, 11:30 AM
Yeah, because OSU doesn't have any haters or anything... :rolleyes:

Yeah, its baffling to me. I mean, OSU fans are always so supportive and humble, why would any other fans hate them??

registerthis
03-19-2007, 11:45 AM
Yeah, its baffling to me. I mean, OSU fans are always so supportive and humble, why would any other fans hate them??

:confused:

Was referring to razor's point that, had the team in question been Duke, that anti-Duke epithets would have been flying.

My point is that OSU tends to draw similar criticisms. I don't think the team in question being Duke would have made any difference.

Puffy
03-19-2007, 12:05 PM
Sorry reg - no offense meant!

SunDeck
03-19-2007, 01:22 PM
XU fan here. Not bitter.
I've seen the replay a million times now and it seems to me like the ref could have called that a flagrant foul or not. Under the boards with guys crashing hard at the end of a game it is a tough call. Am I wrong? Only Oden knows that. The fact is he put XU on the line and they could have made it a two possession game by draining 2 free throws. They didn't and then they let Lewis run the floor to take an open shot a couple seconds later. Sure- it was a great run, but if XU had been ready to play defense there, I say they could have moved on.

registerthis
03-19-2007, 02:28 PM
Sorry reg - no offense meant!

No problem, and none taken!

Just wanted to clarify my post, is all.

Mutaman
03-19-2007, 02:49 PM
I think we should all cut Greg Oden some slack. He had a final exam coming up in "The History of Rock and Roll" and he was a little uptight about it.

Hey Greg, just write down "Elvis".

Roy Tucker
03-19-2007, 03:04 PM
I think we should all cut Greg Oden some slack. He had a final exam coming up in "The History of Rock and Roll" and he was a little uptight about it.

Hey Greg, just write down "Elvis".

The "Sammy Hagar" and the "David Lee Roth" Van Halen eras.

Compare and contrast.

LoganBuck
03-19-2007, 04:09 PM
The "Sammy Hagar" and the "David Lee Roth" Van Halen eras.

Compare and contrast.

You know as funny as it is to hammer that class it probably is tougher then you think.

Course Description: Students in this course will: (1) broaden their appreciation and understanding of the role of American popular music; (2) learn to recognize specific musical styles, genres, and performers of American popular music; (3) learn to understand and recognize compositional structures common to various genres of American popular music; and (4) increase their understanding of American cultural history by studying the significant trends, sounds, characteristics, and messages of its popular music.

I doubt that it requires much brain power, but could be more involved then one might imagine.

SunDeck
03-19-2007, 04:11 PM
(3) learn to understand and recognize compositional structures common to various genres of American popular music;

Um...three chords, twelve bars, seventh. That about covers it.
:lol:

Spring~Fields
03-19-2007, 04:22 PM
I think we should all cut Greg Oden some slack. He had a final exam coming up in "The History of Rock and Roll" and he was a little uptight about it.

Hey Greg, just write down "Elvis".

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Don't be stressing him out now, can't have him shooting the ball from any further than the top of the rim. :devil:

BuckeyeRed27
03-19-2007, 04:22 PM
You know as funny as it is to hammer that class it probably is tougher then you think.

Course Description: Students in this course will: (1) broaden their appreciation and understanding of the role of American popular music; (2) learn to recognize specific musical styles, genres, and performers of American popular music; (3) learn to understand and recognize compositional structures common to various genres of American popular music; and (4) increase their understanding of American cultural history by studying the significant trends, sounds, characteristics, and messages of its popular music.

I doubt that it requires much brain power, but could be more involved then one might imagine.


I took the this course with a student at The Ohio State University. It is easy but not a gimmie.

Hoosier Red
03-19-2007, 05:40 PM
I was a sports communication major at IU. I guarantee there are easier classes.

But of course Mutaman brings this up because everyone at Wisconsin is a BIOLOGY/CHEMISTRY/NUCLEAR PHYSICS TRIPLE MAJOR.

Mutaman
03-19-2007, 05:50 PM
But of course Mutaman brings this up because everyone at Wisconsin is a BIOLOGY/CHEMISTRY/NUCLEAR PHYSICS TRIPLE MAJOR.

Unfortunately everyone at Wisconsin is now practicing their golf swing. Be that as it may I can guarantee you that more than 10% of the Badgers will get a degree. Besides the History of Rock and Roll, the Florida football debacle, the noncall in the Xavier game, and the 10% graduation rate, O$U is making the Big 10 look bad.

Danny Serafini
03-19-2007, 05:53 PM
You do realize that the 10% rate involves players who came to the school over a decade ago, right? And that it has nothing to do with the current players, right? I'm sure you do, but why pass on the opportunity to take a cheap shot.

Hoosier Red
03-19-2007, 06:04 PM
I'm not sure you're point other than being bitter though.

1. History of Rock and Roll-the course is offered to everyone at the university.
It's offered at IU too, probably Madison and every other campus as well. One of the advantages to big campuses is the large spread of classes available.
Of course I've yet to figure out why anyone cares what classes Greg Oden or any players are taking.

2. The Xavier no-call? Now it's tOSU's fault that the referees didn't call an intentional foul? Of course no one has pointed out a single instance in the tournament where a player has been given a flagrant in a similar situation.

Sorry to nit pick on what is probably just venting

registerthis
03-19-2007, 07:16 PM
the noncall in the Xavier game

:laugh:

Yep, the whole Big 10 is now wincing after that Xavier "non call." I'd be surprised if they didn't kick OSU out of the conference for doing that.

Caveat Emperor
03-19-2007, 08:23 PM
I think we should all cut Greg Oden some slack. He had a final exam coming up in "The History of Rock and Roll" and he was a little uptight about it.

He's also been busy memorizing the lyrics to "We Didn't Start the Fire" to cram for his World History exam.

Sham
03-19-2007, 08:55 PM
X fan here. I don't care about the arguments about the fouls. I just want to sleep. I haven't gotten more than 3 straight hours of sleep since I got back from Rupp.

Help me. Please.

traderumor
03-19-2007, 10:48 PM
I can't think of too many things more childish than "hating" another team because their fans are homers and biased toward their team. And yes, I've done my share of that silliness. But giving it some thought, it really is silly and immature.

LoganBuck
03-20-2007, 01:08 PM
Unfortunately everyone at Wisconsin is now practicing their golf swing. Be that as it may I can guarantee you that more than 10% of the Badgers will get a degree. Besides the History of Rock and Roll, the Florida football debacle, the noncall in the Xavier game, and the 10% graduation rate, O$U is making the Big 10 look bad.

You are talking about a period of time that saw Randy Ayars lose his job for recruiting thugs and morons. Most of his players ended up transferring, flunking out, or arrested. Jim OBrien was hired to clean things up. :help: In the short term he did, but he also lost one of those players that were in your select group of players from a decade ago to the NBA (Micheal Redd). Then he started slipping from a results perspective, and his NCAA infractions have been documented.

I know you don't like Ohio State, but seriously lighten up.

reds1869
03-20-2007, 05:31 PM
I'm an XU fan and am not the least bit bitter. At first I was but that was because the moment stung so badly. Do I believe the foul should have been called intentional? Yes. But did X have plenty of opportunities not to slowly but surely blow their lead? Yep. Poor tactical choices by the coaching staff led to the loss, not a non-call by the refs.

Mutaman
03-20-2007, 06:07 PM
I know you don't like Ohio State, but seriously lighten up.


I don't dislike O$U, I just think they emphasize the student part of "student/athelete" a lot less than the other schools in the Big 10 and therefore have a competitive advantage. But hey, thats just me.

I like picking on them here because my fellow Reds fans who root for the Buckeyes get so defensive about it. As far as the criteria used to come up with the 10% graduation rate, I assume it was the same criteria for all 64 teams, and O$U came up last.

And as far as "lightening up", hey I'm trying to be funny. This is the best I got. In any event, I like Oden and Conely, Lewis showed me a lot Saturday, and I thought the ref made the right call. Good luck the rest of the way.

Caseyfan21
03-20-2007, 11:45 PM
As far as the criteria used to come up with the 10% graduation rate, I assume it was the same criteria for all 64 teams, and O$U came up last.


I know that this has probably been discussed but I just wish we could look at graduation rates at OSU pre Gene Smith and post Gene Smith. Since Gene has arrived, IMO, the focus on academics has been much, much greater with mandatory tutoring hours and study tables. I know both athletes and people that work in the Younkin Career Center (where athletes must report) and I can tell you with certainty that players are there for the required times and are doing their own work.

I had a close friend that worked there (Younkin) and she was verbally abused from an unnamed football player because he was skipping out on his hours expecting them to cover for him (they don't). Needless to say he ended up in trouble with his coaches and had to pay penalties for his actions.

Also, I have a close friend on the coaching staff and he has told me Tressel has 2 full time employees who all they do is follow academics. They do random calls on every football player and make sure they are attending class and they get updates every other week from professors. Not to mention all of this is expected of student staff such as my friend as well.

OSU may still not be doing exceptional in studies like this but an effort is most certainly in place to improve graduation rates and athlete's academic performance. Unfortunately, since studies like this cover many years, the effects won't be seen for awhile.

BuckeyeRedleg
03-21-2007, 05:14 PM
I don't dislike O$U, I just think they emphasize the student part of "student/athelete" a lot less than the other schools in the Big 10 and therefore have a competitive advantage. But hey, thats just me.

You are right about one thing. OSU does have an advantage on Northwestern, however saying they have an advantage over any other school in the Big 10 is really stretching it. Can you provide some examples of recruits (in any sport) that have gotten into OSU that wouldn't get into any of the other Big 10 schools besides Northwestern? Frankly, I don't think you have any proof to make that statement. I think you have let the Clarett-ESPN witchhunt cloud your view and combined with your hate for "O$U" you throw out blanket assumptions.


As a matter of fact, time and time again, football recruits that want to commit to OSU are told that they will not get past admissions and they end up committing to other Big 10 schools. (See: Minnesota, Michigan State, Illinois, etc.). Examples? Ernie Wheelright. Jeff Cumberland. Antonio Jerimiah. Brian Gamble. Morgan Williams. Derrel Johnson. Dennis Kennedy. Freddie Lenix. Miles Williams. Ray Williams. Javon Ringer. Gary Russell. DeJuan Morgan. All wanted to come to OSU within the last few years. All were turned away. All signed with other Big 10 and other major D-1 football programs. Even Larry Fitzgerald wanted to attend OSU, but his grades were borderline and he chose to avoid any hassle and signed with Pitt. Funny, there was no gnashing of teeth when he signed there. Hmmm. I wonder why?

You know, the bashing of OSU is getting old around here, but hey, that's just me.

registerthis
03-21-2007, 06:14 PM
You know, the bashing of OSU is getting old around here, but hey, that's just me.

If they weren't winning, they wouldn't be such an easy target. Just an OSU fan's burden, I suppose.

cincy09
03-21-2007, 06:19 PM
If they weren't winning, they wouldn't be such an easy target. Just an OSU fan's burden, I suppose.

That pretty much says it all

Mutaman
03-22-2007, 03:34 AM
Frankly, I don't think you have any proof to make that statement. .

Gee, having one of the lowest graduation rates of any of the 65 teams in the NCAA tounament seems like a pretty good start. Well, you did beat out Tennessee and Florida A&M.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/12/AR2007031201397.html

Caveat Emperor
03-22-2007, 08:00 AM
If they weren't winning, they wouldn't be such an easy target. Just an OSU fan's burden, I suppose.

One of the big problems is that when they weren't winning, there weren't close to as many "fans" to be burdened.

I think the bandwagon gives a lot of College of Columbus fans a bad name.

registerthis
03-22-2007, 09:58 AM
One of the big problems is that when they weren't winning, there weren't close to as many "fans" to be burdened.

I think the bandwagon gives a lot of College of Columbus fans a bad name.

Having grown up and spent the first 26 years of my life in Columbus, and having graduated from OSU, I must profess some level of ignorance as to the OSU bandwagon. People in Columbus would be rabid Buckeye fans whether they were going 12-0 or 0-12 every year.

I'm sure their recent success has caused some people to become Buckeye fans, but when you're a name school that churns out as many alumna as OSU does, you're pretty much going to find Buckeye fans wherever you go.

guttle11
03-22-2007, 11:15 AM
Having grown up and spent the first 26 years of my life in Columbus, and having graduated from OSU, I must profess some level of ignorance as to the OSU bandwagon. People in Columbus would be rabid Buckeye fans whether they were going 12-0 or 0-12 every year.

I'm sure their recent success has caused some people to become Buckeye fans, but when you're a name school that churns out as many alumna as OSU does, you're pretty much going to find Buckeye fans wherever you go.

Exactly. The bandwagon fans are outside of Ohio.

BuckeyeRedleg
03-22-2007, 12:13 PM
Gee, having one of the lowest graduation rates of any of the 65 teams in the NCAA tounament seems like a pretty good start.

Using a graduation sample from 1996-1999 to make a point about a program having a competitive advantage over other programs in their conference today seems like a Red Herring to me. You said.

"I just think they emphasize the student part of "student/athelete" a lot less than the other schools in the Big 10 and therefore have a competitive advantage."

Your proof?

An article focusing on graduation rates on incoming basketball freshman between 1996-1999. It says,

"Just 10 percent of Ohio State's basketball players received degrees at the school, according to a study that examined the freshman classes entering from 1996 to 1999."

First of all, what does 1996-1999 have to do with Thad Matta, Gene Smith, or anything regarding the current state of OSU's basketball program today?

Secondly, what kind of a sample size are we dealing with here (1996-1999)? 10 players? My memory of OSU recruiting records is a bit limited, but I recall the '98 class consisted of Brian Brown, Boban Savovic, and Will Dudley. The '99 class consisted of Chobe Osokalich (sp) and Brent Darby. I'm pretty sure the '97 class consisted of George Reese (juco transfer) and Michael Redd and I think Ken Johnson was a member of the 1996 class. So, I'm counting 8 players. Basing the % at 10%, I must be missing 2 recruits. Assuming I am, one kid graduated out of 10. None of these kids were superstar recruits, so OSU recruiting a marginal student was giving them no competitive advantage against the rest of the Big 10 here. Of the 10, Redd went to the NBA early, so I'm not sure how that effects the rating (if he never came back and got his degree). Osokalich transferred to Weber State. This had nothing to do with academics, but rather his minimal playing time. Brown, Johnson, Savovic, Darby, Reese, and Dudley all used their eligibility and I am fairly certain that Brown, Darby, and Johnson graduated, so I'm not sure where the 10% is coming from. For this article to have an exact number like 10%, we must be talking about 1 of 10. I'm just not sure where they are getting that. Regardless, this doesn't prove that OSU today has any sort of competitive edge over other big 10 schools. The fact that they are winning now makes them an easy target. I'm sure nobody cared about graduating one in ten players from 1996-1999 when OSU was missing the tourney three straight years between 2003-2005.

The article then goes on to say,

"Taking into account players who transfer, enter from junior colleges and are graduated late, 38 percent of Buckeyes basketball players earned degrees during that period.."

So which is it? 10% or 38%? and if it is 38%, what numbers, when dealing with such limited sample size (1996-1999 incoming frosh) could be divided into one another to come up with 38%? I'm guessing 5 of 13 or 3 of 8. Ok, so we are going to indict Thad Matta and the current OSU program because Jim O'Brien and Randy Ayers recruited 8-13 kids between 1996 and 1999 and only 3-5 of them graduated. Yes, other big 10 schools should feel so cheated. What a competitive edge.


Caveat. I'm not sure how you could label just OSU as bandwagon fans. Every school, every NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB team has fans that come out of the woodwork when they are winning. To say that it only applies to OSU fans seems a bit harsh to me. Yes, we have idiot fans. Some of which I'm embarrassed to even be associated with. Yes, many of the idiot fans can be found on internet message boards. The same can be said for fans of any team. I'm embarrassed of my fellow Reds fans as well. That doesn't mean that I think all Reds fans are pathetic. If the Reds win the next 10 world championships I'm sure there will be people that will hate them and say that our fans are obnoxious bandwagon jumpers. That wouldn't be fair, would it?

Also, you are a pretty respected poster and I appreciate what you offer in term of the baseball side of the board, but I'm a tad offended by the "College of Columbus" tag.

I think we are all friends here and "O$U" and "College of Columbus" are somewhat disrespectful terms when you know that you have many fellow Reds fans on this board that also bleed Scarlet and Gray and even attended the university.

Mutaman
03-22-2007, 01:44 PM
Buckeyeredleg: You asked for proof and I gave you proof. No matter how much you spin the numbers, having a graduation rate of 10%, which ranks as one of the lowest in the 65 team tournament, is pathetic. Rather than getting all defensive about this sad state of affairs, those "fellow Reds fans on this board that also bleed Scarlet and Gray and even attended the university" should put pressure on the school to change this unacceptable situation.

Danny Serafini
03-22-2007, 01:46 PM
You're right. They should change the fact that Randy Ayers recruited some bad kids OVER A DECADE AGO. We'll get right on that. :rolleyes:

LoganBuck
03-22-2007, 02:03 PM
Gee, having one of the lowest graduation rates of any of the 65 teams in the NCAA tounament seems like a pretty good start. Well, you did beat out Tennessee and Florida A&M.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/12/AR2007031201397.html

That information has the same current relevance as the fools who used to mouth off about Cincinnati Bearcat graduation rates. Ohio State ran off one coach because he recruited players that had packing peanuts for brains, and another that was focused on grades, that had poor results and NCAA infractions, which were reported by OSU. They ran a football coach off for those same reasons (and a lack of winning big). What more do you want? Ohio State has been prioritizing academics for the last 5 years and all you have to stand on is this crap from years ago.

In 1941 FDR should have seen the attack on Pearl Harbor coming. Lets impeach him now.

Red Leader
03-22-2007, 02:05 PM
You're right. They should change the fact that Randy Ayers recruited some bad kids OVER A DECADE AGO. We'll get right on that. :rolleyes:

They should fire him. ;)

gObUcKZZ!

LoganBuck
03-22-2007, 02:15 PM
Buckeyeredleg: You asked for proof and I gave you proof. No matter how much you spin the numbers, having a graduation rate of 10%, which ranks as one of the lowest in the 65 team tournament, is pathetic. Rather than getting all defensive about this sad state of affairs, those "fellow Reds fans on this board that also bleed Scarlet and Gray and even attended the university" should put pressure on the school to change this unacceptable situation.

Wow, did you even read Buckeyeredleg's post? You are just being blind, and unfair in your statements. OSU HAS addressed the problem, and HAS moved forward. You apparently can not.

In your world Pete Harnisch is your opening day starter.

Caseyfan21
03-22-2007, 03:09 PM
Buckeyeredleg: You asked for proof and I gave you proof. No matter how much you spin the numbers, having a graduation rate of 10%, which ranks as one of the lowest in the 65 team tournament, is pathetic. Rather than getting all defensive about this sad state of affairs, those "fellow Reds fans on this board that also bleed Scarlet and Gray and even attended the university" should put pressure on the school to change this unacceptable situation.

Apparently you have chosen to ignore several of the posts on this past page where people have shown ways the situation has been addressed. Please refer to my post a few up where I mentioned some of the ways that academics have been changed since Gene Smith and Thad Matta have taken over as well as Buckeyeredleg's recent post. There's no denying some of the past academic troubles in Columbus but the facts are clear that the current leaders are making sure academic trouble is a thing of the past. Since Gene Smith has been AD the university has increased graduation rates and team GPA's. That is a fact.