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NatiRedGals
03-18-2007, 10:46 AM
Unstoppables vs. General Shermans 3/18

SARASOTA, Fla. -- Got your lineup for today:

Gonzalez 6
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/2007/03/02/cmAbIrk4.jpg
Hatteberg 3
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/2007/03/02/AJiynkcc.jpg
Phillips 4
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/2007/03/02/HthHr9pp.jpg
Dunn 7
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/2007/03/02/i8TXKEha.jpg
Encarnacion 5
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/2007/03/02/xgzHAMxF.jpg
Hamilton 8
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/2007/03/02/EG9TGLBL.jpg
Conine 9
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/2007/03/02/p7UBpeql.jpg
Ross 2
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/2007/03/02/fDLOnwtq.jpg
Harang 1
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/2007/03/02/jLNW6eCo.jpg

Hamilton said his shins felt great yesterday and he'll see how it is today

A lot of guys will probably return Wednesday. Everyone with some aches and/or pains that have missed games should return. That would be Freel, Crosby, EZ Ramirez and Bray, and maybe Majewski.

Labels: lineups, updates

Thanks C Trent

NatiRedGals
03-18-2007, 10:58 AM
Game Time- Right-hander Aaron Harang takes the mound Sunday for the Reds. Harang will face Braves right-hander Buddy Carlyle in a 1:05 p.m. ET game at Ed Smith Stadium.

mth123
03-18-2007, 11:10 AM
The pictures in the first post are a nice touch. Conine looks like the Manager or coach and the others the players. His "young body" doesn't show on his face.

edabbs44
03-18-2007, 11:13 AM
The lineup looks like Narron pulled it out of a hat. Gonzalez leading off? Phillips 3rd?

M2
03-18-2007, 11:13 AM
I'd love to see this lineup in the regular season, just to see how many :explode: emoticons it would inspire.

edabbs44
03-18-2007, 11:16 AM
I'd love to see this lineup in the regular season, just to see how many :explode: emoticons it would inspire.

I think we will be seeing this lineup, except moving Griffey to 3rd and Phillips in for Conine. When's the last time Cincy had a real leadoff hitter?

NatiRedGals
03-18-2007, 11:17 AM
I'd love to see this lineup in the regular season, just to see how many :explode: emoticons it would inspire.

Joys of Spring Training you dont have to worry bout it !:bang:

kbrake
03-18-2007, 11:24 AM
At some point you do have to worry. I didnt mind the Gonzalez signing at first, I figured he would bring some good D and maybe have decent pop at the 8th spot. Guess I was foolish to forget who was filling out the lineup card every night. I know its only ST but it still bothers me that Gonzalez is spending so much time hitting 1st and 2nd.

mth123
03-18-2007, 11:32 AM
Some one mentioned in a previous game thread, that many times the line-ups are made to get a couple quick ABs and an exit from the game so others get a shot.

I think things will be a little more serious about Wednesday or so. After the off day the team will start stretching its pitchers, getting its regulars and relievers work on back to back days and setting up its rotation. We should see a big cut Tuesday I'd bet.

If Gonzalez is still leading off on Wednesday, release the emoticons.

TOBTTReds
03-18-2007, 11:43 AM
The Braves lineup:


Kelly Johnson 2B
Pete Orr 3B
Jeff Francoeur RF
Matt Diaz LF
Doug Clark CF
Scott Thorman 1B
Brayan Pena C
Tony Pena SS
Buddy Carlyle P

mth123
03-18-2007, 11:51 AM
I think the Braves are a dark horse to win it all in 2007. I think Kelly Johnson will give them a good guy at the top of the order and the line-up will be deep with guys like Thorman, Wilson, Diaz and McCann providing lots of pop in the lower half.

I like Gonzalelz and Soriano teaming with Wickman to make them real tough if they are ahead after 6 innings. They kind of look like the 1990 Reds to me a little. Smoltz and Hudson and the emerging Chuck James could give them enough in the rotation.

TOBTTReds
03-18-2007, 11:55 AM
OMG, Brandon Phillips wears his hat crooked! How has half of Redszone not blown up over this because he doesn't play the game the right way ala Ronnie Belliard!!!


From my favorite thread of all time. Hat sideways = thug life and disrespect to the game and your teammates


I hope to the good lord above the Reds dont try and sign Bellylard.He is probably my least favorite player in all of baseball.He thinks hes way better than he is and is very arrogant.

I got sort of a funny story about Mr. Belly.It was during the game that Ross hit the walkoff homer off Izzy.When Belly came to bat they showed a crazy pic. of him(his cap was on about as crooked as he could get it and get it to stay on)on the big screen and the whole stadium just cracked up.I just think it is disrespectful to the game for those players to pull there cap around to there ear and go play the field.


I have to agree with the "disrepecting the game" comments that I've read here about the likes of Ronnie Belly


A cap wore not facing frontwards is a shot of disrespect in every way


If they would cut down these things and make a player hustle and dress right,like a bussiness man.Meaning how many lawyers do you see wearing there suit out of place or side ways,none.If this happened they would be less nonsense happening off the field and you would get better results on the field.I know this because I have seen it happen,in college and in the minors.Now if the Big leagues could just make it happen.

Let me tell you another story about a cap being wore the wrong way.I had a professor at N. Dakota St. and his name was Bill.If you wore a cap backwards in his class or office he would make you take it off and turn it frontwards.He said he didnt want anyone wearing their cap bill toward their butt.He said it was disrepectful toward he has a man and any person named Bill.Now do I think that was a little over board of course I do.I think he was just trying to take the thug out of his class,and he has that right.So do the owners of business which are baseball teams.

As to the game with Bellylards pic. and the people talking about it.I was sitting about 10 rows behind the Reds dugout and about all the people around myself was saying how thug Belly man was.If some of you cant look and see that there is way to much thug life in pro sports your just wearing blinders man.Athletes are just running into way to much trouble these days dealing with shootings and associating with the wrong kind of people.If the thug was taken out of the game it would make for better game and life for the fans and players.


I know that crooked hats are the style now and the pips like to stay in style.But why do they have to do it while they are at work.They are professionals why not dress like and act like it.I am only 26 and understand style these days are everything,if you dont have it your not cool.I just dont understand why it has be everywhere.Ecspecially in our sports that we love to root for and would do about anything to see them win.Just why bring it to sports,put your uniform on one leg at a time and pull you hat down over your eyes not your ear thanks.


count me as one who wants a team of PROFESSIONAL players not a bunch of generation X & Y idiots.


Gawd NO!!!! That wanna be Gangsta look is just irritating. Pass, pass pass. He can't play worth a squat anyway.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52264&highlight=belliard+hat

NatiRedGals
03-18-2007, 12:02 PM
The Braves lineup:Kelly Johnson 2B
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/images/2007/03/02/FPI45MDo.jpg
Pete Orr 3B
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/images/2007/03/02/dx9HQXsf.jpg
Jeff Francoeur RF
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/images/2007/03/02/84MwHUe4.jpg
Matt Diaz LF
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/images/2007/03/02/CV8UXfvV.jpg
Doug Clark CF
Scott Thorman 1B
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/images/2007/03/02/WJ2gjGK7.jpg
Brayan Pena C
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/images/2007/03/02/N5xqgEKh.jpg
Tony Pena SS
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/images/2007/03/02/TQpJfk4H.jpg
Buddy Carlyle P


Their the ones i could find:thumbup:

RedsManRick
03-18-2007, 12:06 PM
I sure hope Narron is only batting Gonzalez high in the order to get him more AB. If he ever bats higher than 6th (on a Sunday special maybe), Narron deserves to have his managerial license revoked. .292 career OBP. .292!!!

PuffyPig
03-18-2007, 12:14 PM
When's the last time Cincy had a real leadoff hitter?

2006, with Freel.

Razor Shines
03-18-2007, 12:44 PM
OMG, Brandon Phillips wears his hat crooked! How has half of Redszone not blown up over this because he doesn't play the game the right way ala Ronnie Belliard!!!

url]

Wait I thought that Jerry Narron didn't play guys who don't "play the game the right way". I'm so confused because I've been told that over and over, and yet Phillips continues to start. It must be that Jerry hasn't gotten around to realizing it yet.

George Anderson
03-18-2007, 12:54 PM
Is it a MLB rule as to when a lineup must be posted?? I know the lineup is not official until it is handed to the umpire, so why post your lineup hours a head of time if you dont have to??

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 12:56 PM
I think the Braves are a dark horse to win it all in 2007. I think Kelly Johnson will give them a good guy at the top of the order and the line-up will be deep with guys like Thorman, Wilson, Diaz and McCann providing lots of pop in the lower half.

I like Gonzlaelz and Soriano teaming with Wickman to make them real tough if they are ahead after 6 innings. They kind of look like the 1990 Reds to me a little. Smoltz and Hudson and the emerging Chuck James could give them enough in the rotation.

They'll (the Braves) have their hands full with SF, St. Louis, and potentially Milwaukee, but I agree, they look good.

NJReds
03-18-2007, 01:03 PM
They'll (the Braves) have their hands full with SF, St. Louis, and potentially Milwaukee, but I agree, they look good.

SF is old, but if they stay healthy they'll be around all year. St. Louis has a questionable rotation and bullpen. Milwaukee has to prove that they can win consistantly and stay healthy, although they do have a lot of talent. The Mets have a great lineup, but they also have rotation issues.

I think the NL is a crapshoot this year. I don't see one "great" team among the bunch.

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 01:05 PM
SF is old, but if they stay healthy they'll be around all year. St. Louis has a questionable rotation and bullpen. Milwaukee has to prove that they can win consistantly and stay healthy, although they do have a lot of talent. The Mets have a great lineup, but they also have rotation issues.

I think the NL is a crapshoot this year. I don't see one "great" team among the bunch.

The Mets will suck. They could be worse than the Reds (they WILL be worse if Pedro isn't able to get healthy).

KronoRed
03-18-2007, 01:10 PM
Ahh Gonzo leading off

It begins ;)

membengal
03-18-2007, 01:11 PM
Why isn't this game on XM?

mth123
03-18-2007, 01:12 PM
Why isn't this game on XM?

I wonder that too.

TOBTTReds
03-18-2007, 01:13 PM
Reds down 2-0 with a Francour HR.

membengal
03-18-2007, 01:14 PM
I wonder if this is tied to that screwup back in week 1 of spring training when the Reds were home in Sarasota and the road broadcast was used instead of the home one. There is no road broadcast of this one today, and it's not picking up the home broadcast. I wonder if XM thinks the spring games are available on channel 173. Because they are not.

It's frustrating. Not sure who to complain to about this. I can listen on the computer, but would rather be able to move about the house more, which I can do with the XM. Really frustrating.

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 01:14 PM
Reds down 2-0 with a Francour HR.

I've said this for years: Aaron Harang does NOT despise surrendering dingers. It keeps him from greatness unfortunately.

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 01:14 PM
Just to note....Gonzo getting lead-off at bats at this point in Spring Training is not a coincidence...

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 01:15 PM
Why isn't this game on XM?

I doesn't know...

oneupper
03-18-2007, 01:15 PM
Just to note....Gonzo getting lead-off at bats at this point in Spring Training is not a coincidence...

Shushh...

TOBTTReds
03-18-2007, 01:17 PM
Gonzalez on base somehow (buffering when he got on)

Hatteberg crushes the ball but is an out "that almost decapetated the second baseman.

Phillips up(Thom loves BP's attitude...dispite sideways hat)

Gonzo caught stealing 2-4. Single for Phillips. Off the glove of the shortstop but still a hit.

Also, one of Harangs runs is UE bc of a Phillips error.

Dunn up. Hammers a single to RF on a 3-0 count. BP to 3rd on a close play.

EdE grounds out.

2-0 Braves after 1.

membengal
03-18-2007, 01:17 PM
I doesn't know...

Matt, does XM think these are going out over channel 173 during the spring? It's the only thing I can think of. Do you know who I can complain to at XM or MLB about this?

oneupper
03-18-2007, 01:18 PM
I've said this for years: Aaron Harang does NOT despise surrendering dingers. It keeps him from greatness unfortunately.

A Francouer HR is always inexcusable unless its a pitch he's hitting off his shoetops.

KronoRed
03-18-2007, 01:18 PM
Just to note....Gonzo getting lead-off at bats at this point in Spring Training is not a coincidence...

It's a crime that he's anywhere but 8th, I'd rather see JR leadoff.

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 01:18 PM
Matt, does XM think these are going out over channel 173 during the spring? It's the only thing I can think of. Do you know who I can complain to at XM or MLB about this?

I'm guessing MLB.....

173 is airing Wille reruns

KoryMac5
03-18-2007, 01:19 PM
todd coffey on xm 183

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 01:19 PM
Dunn's batting over .400

Just to note....

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 01:20 PM
A Francouer HR is always inexcusable unless its a pitch he's hitting off his shoetops.

My guess is that Harang benefits in many ways from a low baseball IQ (forgetting about the last pitch, not dwelling on things, etc), but then suffers from that same quality when he leaves a meatball over the plate to a stiff like Francoeur.

Chip R
03-18-2007, 01:20 PM
Did my ears decieve me or was Thom talking about hitting Gonzo 5th or 6th?

edabbs44
03-18-2007, 01:21 PM
2006, with Freel.

Sorry, one who is consistent and can produce as such when they play every day.

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 01:22 PM
Sorry, one who is consistent and can produce as such when they play every day.

Larkin....at some point?

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 01:22 PM
Sorry, one who is consistent and can produce as such when they play every day.

So you DO mean Ryan Freel. :confused:

mth123
03-18-2007, 01:24 PM
Matt, does XM think these are going out over channel 173 during the spring? It's the only thing I can think of. Do you know who I can complain to at XM or MLB about this?

mlb@xmradio.com

I just sent one. Maybe if their monitoring they'll join. Fire away.

TOBTTReds
03-18-2007, 01:25 PM
Top of 2:

Scott Thorman: FO - 9 deep to the RF wall.

Brayan (Brian) Pena, IF hit, ball hit off 2nd base bag. Runner on 1st one down.

Tony Pena K's. 3rd K for Harangatang today.

Your Buddy Carlyle up now. K's. 4 K's are hanging for Harang.

Side note. Jeff Brantly loves every pitcher. Thinks Lohse could be a phenomenal pitcher.

membengal
03-18-2007, 01:28 PM
I'm guessing MLB.....

173 is airing Wille reruns

I know 173 doesn't run the game Matt. I know that. Work with me here. I listen to 173 for the pregame, as always, no problem. Then when it goes to blackout, I am supposed to be able to get the game on channels 176-189. It's. Not. There. Hasn't been all spring when the Reds have been in Sarasota. Either gotten the road crews game (there isn't one today) or nothing.

Help me help you. There is no reason this game is not on. I am on perpetual hold with DirecTV do you have any idea where to begin? Because simply calling MLB ain't gonna get it done.

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 01:28 PM
Did I mention I'm liking JB? His play-by-play isn't the best...yet...but he's never done it before. As an analyst, he's top notch.

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 01:29 PM
I know 173 doesn't run the game Matt. I know that. Work with me here. I listen to 173 for the pregame, as always, no problem. Then when it goes to blackout, I am supposed to be able to get the game on channels 176-189. It's. Not. There. Hasn't been all spring when the Reds have been in Sarasota. Either gotten the road crews game (there isn't one today) or nothing.

Help me help you. There is no reason this game is not on. I am on perpetual hold with DirecTV do you have any idea where to begin? Because simply calling MLB ain't gonna get it done.

Maybe call XM....

I don't know.

edabbs44
03-18-2007, 01:30 PM
So you DO mean Ryan Freel. :confused:

The guy who OBPed .282 in May, .325 in August and .311 in Sept/Oct? The guy who had 14 walks in 234 PAs from May through July?

Puig Your Red
03-18-2007, 01:30 PM
I don't know how much we can take out of Spring Training lineups, but I've noticed a trend of Phillips hitting in the middle of the lineup ALOT. I wonder if he will do that during the regular season? Seabass has been hitting near the top some, but not nearly as much as BP has in the middle.

membengal
03-18-2007, 01:31 PM
Well, I got an answer. And it blows. Big chunks.

Because the Braves are split squad, XM won't air the split game. So, even though the Reds are home and NOT SPLIT, and have a broadcast available, no XM station has been assigned.

That makes no sense. None. But there you go.

I have lodged what complaint I can, but, hey, what can you do. Insane people are making these decisions.

TOBTTReds
03-18-2007, 01:32 PM
Btm of 2nd:

It is 43 degrees in Cincy.

Josh Hamilton leading off: 4-3 GO

Young body/old face up: 58th round draft pick, Strikes out

Possible flash in the pan catcher gets a broken bat single to shallow CF.

Harang goes 4-3 on first pitch.

Brantley doing pbp next inning.

membengal
03-18-2007, 01:33 PM
Hamilton's swinging at the first pitch there makes me a bit grumpy...

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 01:34 PM
The guy who OBPed .282 in May, .325 in August and .311 in Sept/Oct? The guy who had 14 walks in 234 PAs from May through July?

Good thing a player's value is more appropriately measured over the course of a season.

mth123
03-18-2007, 01:34 PM
mlb@xmradio.com

I just sent one. Maybe if their monitoring they'll join. Fire away.

I got what reads like a stock answer back:

Buried in there is this bolded tidbit.

Spring Training Coverage

Please note that during Spring Training, not all games are broadcast by
the teams' flagship radio stations; unfotunately we've been notified by
some teams that the team's satellite provider is not carrying any of the
Spring Training games (and will begin with the regular season games).

Puig Your Red
03-18-2007, 01:35 PM
Good thing a player's value is more appropriately measured over the course of a season.
Is it surprising his OBP dropped so much when he was playing everyday?

No.

edabbs44
03-18-2007, 01:35 PM
Good thing a player's value is more appropriately measured over the course of a season.

I'm not the one who called Freel consistent.

KronoRed
03-18-2007, 01:35 PM
This proves why SS games should be done away with

membengal
03-18-2007, 01:35 PM
mth, that is indeed a stock answer from them, and doesn't begin to address the question.

Matt, I am liking Brantley as an analyst, but not so much on PBP. I am hoping he eases into that as the year goes on, because it's rough now.

mth123
03-18-2007, 01:36 PM
Well, I got an answer. And it blows. Big chunks.

Because the Braves are split squad, XM won't air the split game. So, even though the Reds are home and NOT SPLIT, and have a broadcast available, no XM station has been assigned.

That makes no sense. None. But there you go.

I have lodged what complaint I can, but, hey, what can you do. Insane people are making these decisions.

How did you get that answer?

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 01:36 PM
Is it surprising his OBP dropped so much when he was playing everyday?

No.

How do you explain 2004?

Correlation isn't necessarily causation.

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 01:37 PM
I'm not the one who called Freel consistent.

I'd say three straight years of excellent leadoff production is consistent. If you want to take a microscope to his production, go for it. I've got better things to point out the hairy moles on on this ballclub.

TOBTTReds
03-18-2007, 01:37 PM
Top 3rd:

Kelly Johnson: Fastball hit for a HR (Brantley now discussing the wind pattern bc it was such a bad looking swing) 3-0 Braves

Orr: Bouncing ball up the middle for a single

Francour up: NEWS FLASH! He took the first two pitches...must have been behind him. JF makes an out (think it was a K?).

Diaz up: FO - 7

Orr gunned at 2nd by money throw from Ross: Caught Stealing.

After 2 1/2....3-0 Braves

Puig Your Red
03-18-2007, 01:38 PM
How do you explain 2004?

Correlation isn't necessarily causation.
A fluke? A career year? How do you explain 2005 and 2006?

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 01:38 PM
Well, I got an answer. And it blows. Big chunks.

Because the Braves are split squad, XM won't air the split game. So, even though the Reds are home and NOT SPLIT, and have a broadcast available, no XM station has been assigned.

That makes no sense. None. But there you go.



That's kinda dumb.

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 01:38 PM
How do you explain 2005 and 2006?

Both very fine, well-above-average years? :confused:

And years where better options didn't exist. And years where Freel wasn't even close to one of the actual problems with the Reds.

Puig Your Red
03-18-2007, 01:42 PM
Both very fine, well-above-average years? :confused:

And years where better options didn't exist. And years where Freel wasn't even close to one of the actual problems with the Reds.
Freel's a great utility player who puts up real solid numbers when he doesn't have to play everyday. When he is forced to play everyday, he's number and health go south.

redsfan1966
03-18-2007, 01:42 PM
I have XM and am a have been a big XM fan...but this Reds spring training game situation is really starting to pi-s me off.....there is no reason this game today shouldnt be on XM...the "Big One" is airing it...affiliates have the option of picking it up..NO EXCUSE..in actuality, I can get today's game on terrestial radio just fine...but I am more worried during the week, when I need XM in my office at work to pick up games...there is no way I can get WLW in my downtown office in Columbus...and knowing tommorrow's game is on WLW and XM isnt listing it is just getting me angry...

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 01:44 PM
Freel's a great utility player who puts up real solid numbers when he doesn't have to play everyday. When he is forced to play everyday, he's number and health go south.

I won't argue that he gets dinged up, and that playing more likely leads to more dings in his armor. But to suggest that his performance suffers BECAUSE he plays everyday is just stupid. I'd say his numbers suffer when he gets hurt. That's a much more sensible (and defensible) theory.

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 01:45 PM
Can there be a separate sticky thread for technical issues (XM, computer, cable, ad nauseam)? This happened ALL last season: tech talk. No offense, but damn it got old in the game threads.

TOBTTReds
03-18-2007, 01:45 PM
Is this a game thread or let's argue about Freel's role as a leadoff hitter (this was all started bc AGonz was put in the leadoff spot on March 18)

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 01:46 PM
Is this a game thread or let's argue about Freel's role as a leadoff hitter (this was all started bc AGonz was put in the leadoff spot on March 18)

Or about tech stuff? At least talking about Freel is game talk.

TOBTTReds
03-18-2007, 01:47 PM
Btm 3rd

AGonz up: K

Hatteberg: FO - 7

Mr. Disrespects the game: JB likes BP's approach at the plate too. Does well with two strikes. Pops up to 1st.

Down 3-0 after 3

Puig Your Red
03-18-2007, 01:47 PM
I won't argue that he gets dinged up, and that playing more likely leads to more dings in his armor. But to suggest that his performance suffers BECAUSE he plays everyday is just stupid. I'd say his numbers suffer when he gets hurt. That's a much more sensible (and defensible) theory.
So if his numbers go down when he gets hurt, and when he plays more he gets dinged up more, wouldn't that mean his numbers go down when he plays more?

edabbs44
03-18-2007, 01:48 PM
So if his numbers go down when he gets hurt, and when he plays more he gets dinged up more, wouldn't that mean his numbers go down when he plays more?

Yep.

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 01:48 PM
So if his numbers go down when he gets hurt, and when he plays more he gets dinged up more, wouldn't that mean his numbers go down when he plays more?

Not necessarily. Logic 101.

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 01:49 PM
JB giving props to the new middle infield duo of Phillips and Gonzo...he says bye the All-Star break, the double play will be routine....

Sweet!

Thom makes a comparison to the duo behind JB when he played here....Bret Boone and Barry Larkin....

I've also heard comparisons of Gonzo to Davey....

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 01:49 PM
JB giving props to the new middle infield duo of Phillips and Gonzo...he says bye the All-Star break, the double play will be routine....

Sweet!

JB wins friends with salad.

edabbs44
03-18-2007, 01:50 PM
JB giving props to the new middle infield duo of Phillips and Gonzo...he says bye the All-Star break, the double play will be routine....

Sweet!

The ones they hit into or the ones they turn?

Just kidding...had to put that out there. :)

Puig Your Red
03-18-2007, 01:53 PM
Not necessarily. Logic 101.
Of course not necessarily. Nothing is black and white.

The fact of the matter is, it's happend the last 2 years. When he has been forced to play everyday, he gets dinged up and his numbers drop. When you consider the fact he isn't a young guy (30 or 31?), it's only going to get worse not better.

He is a GREAT utility player. Why the Reds would want to diminish his value and production by running him out to RF/CF everyday is beyond me. Let him play 3 or 4 times a week at different positions, watch him have great production, and don't listen to the people who say he should play everyday.

Puig Your Red
03-18-2007, 01:54 PM
JB giving props to the new middle infield duo of Phillips and Gonzo...he says bye the All-Star break, the double play will be routine....

Sweet!

Thom makes a comparison to the duo behind JB when he played here....Bret Boone and Barry Larkin....

I've also heard comparisons of Gonzo to Davey....
They are going to be fun to watch for the next couple years.

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 01:55 PM
Harang getting his work in....

Puig Your Red
03-18-2007, 01:55 PM
Meanwhile, Harang is getting beat up. 4-0 now.

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 01:56 PM
He is a GREAT utility player. Why the Reds would want to diminish his value and production by running him out to RF/CF everyday is beyond me. Let him play 3 or 4 times a week at different positions, watch him have great production, and don't listen to the people who say he should play everyday.

If there are better options for CF than Freel, then there should be no discussion. But in 2005 and 2006, there likely weren't.

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 01:56 PM
JB telling fans to remain calm about Harang

:lol:

membengal
03-18-2007, 01:57 PM
Harang's been getting a lot of work in this spring. Would be nice if at some point this spring he is work would include outs.

Brantley says nothing to worry about...

NatiRedGals
03-18-2007, 01:57 PM
JB telling fans to remain calm about Harang

:lol:

Hes just been named the openning day starter thats all:laugh:

Puig Your Red
03-18-2007, 01:57 PM
If there are better options for CF than Freel, then there should be no discussion. But in 2005 and 2006, there likely weren't.
Just because there weren't better options doesn't mean he was good.

KronoRed
03-18-2007, 01:57 PM
Spring training stats don't matter




Except in certain cases :D

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 01:58 PM
Just because there weren't better options doesn't mean he was good.

No, he was good, too. Maybe not up to your phantom "standards," but good and often very good.

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 01:58 PM
Spring training stats don't matter




Except in certain cases :D

They only matter when they're good :D

Puig Your Red
03-18-2007, 01:59 PM
No, he was good, too. Maybe not up to your phantom "standards," but good and often very good.
He was good when he didn't have to play everyday.

Round and round in circles we go.

NatiRedGals
03-18-2007, 01:59 PM
They only matter when they're good :D

Aint that the truth (Burton, Loshe, Dunn, Hamilton):evil:

Reds1
03-18-2007, 02:00 PM
NIce rebound by Harang. 1 more K will do it!

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 02:00 PM
Round and round in circles we go.

Except one of us is seeing straight. And well, it's me.

KronoRed
03-18-2007, 02:01 PM
Aint that the truth (Burton, Loshe, Dunn, Hamilton):evil:

...Tony Womack last year :devil:

Puig Your Red
03-18-2007, 02:01 PM
Except one of us is seeing straight. And well, it's me.
Of course it's you. :duel:

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 02:05 PM
Eddie singles....Hamilton up

NatiRedGals
03-18-2007, 02:05 PM
...Tony Womack last year :devil:

:owned:

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 02:06 PM
Hamilton in his first funk of the Spring....

tripleaaaron
03-18-2007, 02:06 PM
I have to say on Freel, you are both right, he was good often times very good, but his best value is as a flex player who plays almost everyday but doesn't have a set spot, while I do agree that he may be our best option, I think we see much better production from him otherwise. This IS a very good topic of debate, but it is very difficult to determine where his value drops and rises in accordance to his position/PT, the argument can be swayed either way and it will alway be like that for players like Freel. I love his style of play and love seeing him in the lineup each day, but when does it begin to hurt him and the club? That is an answer that is not as easy to come up with as it seems. Hence the round and round in circles. But you both have great points and just sit on the opposite sides of the fence. In this case, the grass is greener on your side.

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 02:06 PM
:owned:

No doubt. We just set 'em up, Krono knocks 'em out. :)

edabbs44
03-18-2007, 02:08 PM
Hamilton in his first funk of the Spring....

Deno hot, Hamilton cold when the competition gets a little stiffer.

Just saying. :D

NJReds
03-18-2007, 02:14 PM
The Mets will suck. They could be worse than the Reds (they WILL be worse if Pedro isn't able to get healthy).


Don't underestimate the Mets. I'd love it if they collapsed, but I don't think they will.

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 02:16 PM
Don't underestimate the Mets. I'd love it if they collapsed, but I don't think they will.

Well, I suppose they could totally revamp their rotation. But if they don't, they're in huge trouble.

membengal
03-18-2007, 02:16 PM
Well, at least that's two hits for Ross today. Might help calm nerves a little bit, even if he is erased on the second of them.

KoryMac5
03-18-2007, 02:16 PM
Hamilton has been hitting a lot of ground balls lately, but he wasn't going to hit .500 all spring and Deno wasn't gong to hit .200

membengal
03-18-2007, 02:20 PM
Alex G having a decent game, leadoff hitter or no.

Nice to get on the board.

Harang's K numbers are the reason why people shouldn't panic this spring. The stuff sounds good, as his location improves and his arm gets into shape, it should go back to where it has been the last few years.

KoryMac5
03-18-2007, 02:21 PM
Well, I suppose they could totally revamp their rotation. But if they don't, they're in huge trouble.

Depends on how their youngsters do, I am hearing good things about Pelfrey this spring.

mth123
03-18-2007, 02:22 PM
Shack pitching. Javy at 1B.

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 02:23 PM
Depends on how their youngsters do, I am hearing good things about Pelfrey this spring.

I was hearing good things about Bailey, too. Until I stopped hearing good things about him.

mth123
03-18-2007, 02:26 PM
An infield double.

KoryMac5
03-18-2007, 02:26 PM
I was hearing good things about Bailey, too. Until I stopped hearing good things about him.

Both Pelfrey and Maine are having good springs as opposed to Bailey who did not.

mth123
03-18-2007, 02:28 PM
A line drive to Javy
A soft liner to SS
an Infield double just off Phillips glove
and a line drive single.
a pick-off.

2 hard hit balls off Shack that inning. 1 Run in.

KoryMac5
03-18-2007, 02:30 PM
Countlangus has passed Shack on the depth chart

mth123
03-18-2007, 02:31 PM
Countlangus has passed Shack on the depth chart

He should pass Cormier and Stanton as well.

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 02:32 PM
Both Pelfrey and Maine are having good springs as opposed to Bailey who did not.

Again, we're talking about 9 innings for Pelfrey and Maine. Pretty inconclusive either way. In any case, saying they're longshots is being generous.

mth123
03-18-2007, 02:32 PM
Hamilton K's again.

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 02:33 PM
Hamilton struggling...

This is where we see what he's made of. How he handles this...

ochoa30
03-18-2007, 02:34 PM
Both Pelfrey and Maine are having good springs as opposed to Bailey who did not.

I would just like to point out that bailey came out of high school while pelfrey is a college product and is 23. Maine is like 26 with major league service so the 3 are not comparable. Give bailey time.

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 02:35 PM
Hamilton struggling...

This is where we see what he's made of. How he handles this...

What are we talking about, 15 at-bats? Not exactly long enough to be considered a "struggle."

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 02:35 PM
I would just like to point out that bailey came out of high school while pelfrey is a college product and is 23. Maine is like 26 with major league service so the 3 are not comparable. Give bailey time.

Pelfrey and Bailey are comparable IMO.

ochoa30
03-18-2007, 02:38 PM
Pelfrey and Bailey are comparable IMO.

3 years in age and college is a lot to have on another guy. You can compare that they are good to very good young pitching prospects but thats it. Bailey has a much higher ceiling anyways because pelfrey's lack of a decent breaking ball and any off speed pitch for that matter.

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 02:40 PM
3 years in age and college is a lot to have on another guy. You can compare that they are good to very good young pitching prospects but thats it. Bailey has a much higher ceiling anyways because pelfrey's lack of a decent breaking ball and any off speed pitch for that matter.

2 years in age (Bailey's 21 in a month and half). But who's counting?

Both ballyhooed prospects just shy of the majors.

NatiRedGals
03-18-2007, 02:40 PM
I wouldnt worry bout Aaron 9k's in just 5 innings lol hes just getting started cant wait to see him on openning day

mth123
03-18-2007, 02:41 PM
Ross with an RBI double. Perking up a bit?

WMR
03-18-2007, 02:41 PM
Wow, this is the first ST photo I've seen of Dunn, and just by looking at his face/neck you can REALLY tell he's dropped a lot of weight. Kudos to Dunn.

ochoa30
03-18-2007, 02:42 PM
2 years in age (Bailey's 21 in a month and half). But who's counting?

Both ballyhooed prospects just shy of the majors.

your right but 2 years is still a pretty big age difference in prospects. 23 is when most prospects hit the majors, bailey is way ahead of that pace and hopefully we will see him up this year for good.

edabbs44
03-18-2007, 02:42 PM
What are we talking about, 15 at-bats? Not exactly long enough to be considered a "struggle."

Small sample size, almost as small as his riproaring start.

KoryMac5
03-18-2007, 02:44 PM
Again, we're talking about 9 innings for Pelfrey and Maine. Pretty inconclusive either way. In any case, saying they're longshots is being generous.

My point is that the Mets are going to put the best 5 pitchers out their for their rotation. Pelfrey according to what Randolph said this morning has a great chance to start the season in the rotation or pen based on his performance. I just feel their philosophy is differrent from the Reds.

ochoa30
03-18-2007, 02:45 PM
anybody else here have brackets and how are you guys doing? I did pretty well in the first round but this second rounds been just a bit tougher. All of my elite 8 are still alive so theres still hope.

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 02:47 PM
anybody else here have brackets and how are you guys doing? I did pretty well in the first round but this second rounds been just a bit tougher. All of my elite 8 are still alive so theres still hope.

31-9 so far

NatiRedGals
03-18-2007, 02:49 PM
Purdues beating florida 25-20 6 mins left in 1st half

ochoa30
03-18-2007, 02:50 PM
31-9 so far

yea im 32-9 after the tenn game, i picked virginia.:(

mth123
03-18-2007, 02:52 PM
Cormier pitching

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 02:52 PM
yea im 32-9 after the tenn game, i picked virginia.:(

I re-counted, I too, am 32-9

KoryMac5
03-18-2007, 02:53 PM
I re-counted, I too, am 32-9

32-9 for me as well

mth123
03-18-2007, 02:53 PM
Cormier K's Matt Diaz. Diaz is a lefty killer so props to Rheal.

Tom Servo
03-18-2007, 02:53 PM
Cormier pitching
I'm rooting for him to boost his trade value.

ochoa30
03-18-2007, 02:53 PM
I re-counted, I too, am 32-9

Some upsets brewing early here, if florida loses im done.

NatiRedGals
03-18-2007, 02:54 PM
im 34-7 (bracket)

mth123
03-18-2007, 02:55 PM
Cormier Hits Thorman (who is not supposed to be good against LH) in the back.

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 02:56 PM
Some upsets brewing early here, if florida loses im done.

Florida losing wouldn't be good...

ochoa30
03-18-2007, 02:56 PM
im 34-7

Nice. it seems like there havent been any huge upsets yet so its a much better year then last year for brackets.

NatiRedGals
03-18-2007, 02:56 PM
Cormier Hits Thorman (who is not supposed to be good against LH) in the back.

Thats the trade vaule we are looking for:beerme:

NatiRedGals
03-18-2007, 02:57 PM
Nice. it seems like there havent been any huge upsets yet so its a much better year then last year for brackets.

I had texas tech and duke even though i hated duke i never thought they would lose in the first round

mth123
03-18-2007, 02:58 PM
Gil with an Error.
Now a hit by Escobar. 6-3 Atl.

ochoa30
03-18-2007, 02:58 PM
I had texas tech and duke even though i hated duke i never thought they would lose in the first round

Yea, i had duke in the sweet sixteen, bad pick by me, they had no chance vs. pitt even if they won the first round.

NatiRedGals
03-18-2007, 02:59 PM
Yea, i had duke in the sweet sixteen, bad pick by me, they had no chance vs. pitt even if they won the first round.

Yep i had them losing to Pitt

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 03:04 PM
Josh gets his hit :)


Off a lefty, too...

mth123
03-18-2007, 03:04 PM
Hamilton with a bloop double.

Slump buster.

ochoa30
03-18-2007, 03:05 PM
Hamilton with a bloop double.

Slump buster.

Lets hope so!

mth123
03-18-2007, 03:05 PM
Brantley saying Hamilton made a good adjustment and used his strength to get the ball into the OF.

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 03:06 PM
He's quite a talent

mth123
03-18-2007, 03:08 PM
Wise K's on ball 4.

Deno up.

jojo
03-18-2007, 03:09 PM
I had texas tech and duke even though i hated duke i never thought they would lose in the first round

The Duke backcourt couldn't guard a statue....

Tom Servo
03-18-2007, 03:10 PM
Wise K's on ball 4.

Deno up.
I would really like to get a new roster filler over DeWayne Wise, who served only to hurt us when he played last year.

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 03:10 PM
JB giving props to Denorfia

jojo
03-18-2007, 03:10 PM
He's quite a talent

And Brantley is quite a homer..... ;)

ochoa30
03-18-2007, 03:10 PM
The Duke backcourt couldn't guard a statue....

They still should have one if they could have made their free throws, they were just to young.

mth123
03-18-2007, 03:10 PM
Deno Ks.

mth123
03-18-2007, 03:13 PM
Coffey in to pitch.

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 03:14 PM
The Coffey and closer discussions continue...

edabbs44
03-18-2007, 03:15 PM
Deno Ks.

Must have been a bad call. ;)

edabbs44
03-18-2007, 03:16 PM
The Coffey and closer discussions continue...

Should be choice #1. Let him fail before you talk about Weathers and Stanton. Show him some confidence.

mth123
03-18-2007, 03:17 PM
I don't like Coffey in the closer role for the same reason that he failed last year. There is no one to get the lead to the 9th inning if Coffey is being saved for the 9th. I think the sporadic workload that would result will mess him up. I still think that was the problem last year and not a problem with him being able to hanlde it mentally.

If the Reds had a power arm or two for the 7th and 8th, Coffey would be a good closer IMO.

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 03:18 PM
Error on Machado

WMR
03-18-2007, 03:18 PM
Should be choice #1. Let him fail before you talk about Weathers and Stanton. Show him some confidence.

Burton?

Probably too much scrappy veteraness in front of him.

ochoa30
03-18-2007, 03:18 PM
when are they gonna get rid of machado, he isnt any good.

Tom Servo
03-18-2007, 03:22 PM
How many errors is that for Machado so far? A thousand?

ochoa30
03-18-2007, 03:23 PM
How many errors is that for Machado so far? A thousand?

Yea, and thats his specialty.:eek:

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 03:24 PM
Bunt single!

wow...small ball!

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 03:29 PM
bases loaded for Janish...

A dinger would be kinda cool...

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 03:31 PM
..or an RBI bloop single

Matt700wlw
03-18-2007, 03:33 PM
Moeller drives one in....bases loaded, Reds down by 1, with 1 out...

Now 2 out...Belhorn pops out.

ochoa30
03-18-2007, 03:34 PM
Moeller drives one in....bases loaded, Reds down by 1, with 1 out...

Now 2 out...Belhorn pops out.

release him, no seriously, he stinks.

mth123
03-18-2007, 03:35 PM
A bunt, a bloop, a bad hop. Pitcher taking a beating on nothing much really.

membengal
03-18-2007, 03:35 PM
It was funny watching NESN yesterday, and them talking about Bellhorn like he was for sure on the club (ex-Red Sox, ya know), as opposed to a guy with one foot out of town like he actually is.

ochoa30
03-18-2007, 03:38 PM
It was funny watching NESN yesterday, and them talking about Bellhorn like he was for sure on the club (ex-Red Sox, ya know), as opposed to a guy with one foot out of town like he actually is.

I hope so.

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 03:40 PM
It was funny watching NESN yesterday, and them talking about Bellhorn like he was for sure on the club (ex-Red Sox, ya know), as opposed to a guy with one foot out of town like he actually is.

And if you can't latch on to THIS offense...whoa nelly. Say goodbye to the majors.

ochoa30
03-18-2007, 03:41 PM
BTW, machado has 4 errors in very little PT. YIKES.

membengal
03-18-2007, 03:42 PM
Did the game end?

VR
03-18-2007, 03:42 PM
when are they gonna get rid of machado, he isnt any good.

they did that once already, he came back like a bad rash

ochoa30
03-18-2007, 03:46 PM
they did that once already, he came back like a bad rash

lol

VR
03-18-2007, 03:47 PM
Looks like the Reds threw 2 up in the 9th to make it a 6-5 final.

GOREDSGO32
03-18-2007, 05:08 PM
How dare the Reds lose to the Braves in a mid spring training game to drop to 13-4 on the season! I think this is obviously the breaking point for this team. Fire Narron and lets drop half the team!














j/k

Eric_Davis
03-18-2007, 05:32 PM
Anything on the other game today?

OnBaseMachine
03-18-2007, 05:55 PM
The Reds didn't play a split squad.

M2
03-18-2007, 06:54 PM
Well, I suppose they could totally revamp their rotation. But if they don't, they're in huge trouble.

They've got Glavine and Maine, who the Orioles should absolutely behead somebody for trading. Oliver Perez, all of 25 years old, looks like he's got himself straightened out. Amazing that Minaya plucked two young pitchers like Maine and Perez for Kris Benson and Xavier Nady.

Pelfrey might not be ready until mid-season.

They'll have to string together guys like El Duque, Aaron Sele and Chan Ho Park for the time being, but they look solid at the top of the rotation to me.

Then you've got Pelfrey and Pedro possibly coming on like gangbusters late in the season. Don't overlook Phil Humber either.

Oh yeah, all of these guys also get supported by what was the best bullpen in the NL last year, one of the best offenses in the league, one of the best defenses in the league and, arguably, the fastest team in MLB.

And if for whatever reason it doesn't work out, they've got a GM who'll go out and get somebody. The Mets were the best team in the NL by a longshot last season, they're young and they look like a team that's going to have a healthy run at the top.

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 06:58 PM
They've got Glavine and Maine, who the Orioles should absolutely behead somebody for trading. Oliver Perez, all of 25 years old, looks like he's got himself straightened out. Amazing that Minaya plucked two young pitchers like Maine and Perez for Kris Benson and Xavier Nady.

Pelfrey might not be ready until mid-season.

They'll have to string together guys like El Duque, Aaron Sele and Chan Ho Park for the time being, but they look solid at the top of the rotation to me.

Then you've got Pelfrey and Pedro possibly coming on like gangbusters late in the season. Don't overlook Phil Humber either.

Oh yeah, all of these guys also get supported by what was the best bullpen in the NL last year, one of the best offenses in the league, one of the best defenses in the league and, arguably, the fastest team in MLB.

And if for whatever reason it doesn't work out, they've got a GM who'll go out and get somebody. The Mets were the best team in the NL by a longshot last season, they're young and they look like a team that's going to have a healthy run at the top.

The Cards were the best team in the NL last year. And I'm not arguing that after the fact. Best top of the rotation, bullpen, and the second best offense in the NL.

I'm not sold on Maine, and Glavine really is very old. Pedro may or may not be back. Everyone else is a huge question mark outside of Maine and Glavine, two not-so-great guys to anchor your rotation with.

I certainly can't argue that their offense is amazing, but offenses ebb and flow.

And I'm about as sold on Perez as I am Lohse, which is to say, not at all.

M2
03-18-2007, 07:20 PM
The Cards were the best team in the NL last year. And I'm not arguing that after the fact. Best top of the rotation, bullpen, and the second best offense in the NL.

Bull, they got hot at the right time and still only managed to squeak by the Mets.

Mind you, I agree the Cardinals were a underrated last season, most notably because they almost suffered the worst collapse in baseball history. Yet, as I mentioned at the start of the World Series, in 20 years, when you look back at who was on the Cardinals and who was on the Tigers, it will seem amazing that anyone thought Detroit would win. Yet note how the Birds blew through the Padres and Tigers last November, but the Mets took the to the wall. That was a great series and it could have gone either way.

Unlike St. Louis, the Mets plowed through the regular season too.

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 07:24 PM
Bull, they got hot at the right time and still only managed to squeak by the Mets.

Mind you, I agree the Cardinals were a little underrated last season, most notably because they almost suffered the worst collapse in baseball history. Yet, as I mentioned at the start of the World Series, in 20 years, when you look back at who was on the Cardinals and who was on the Tigers, it will seem amazing that anyone thought Detroit would win. Yet note how the Birds blew through the Padres and Tigers last November, but the Mets took the to the wall. That was a great series and it could have gone either way.

Unlike St. Louis, the Mets plowed through the regular season too.

They out-everything-ed the Mets in that Series, though; psychologically castrating Billy Wagner. My take is that it took a superlong time to get all the pieces in the right place. Izzy out; Wainwright in. Duncan more ABs. Faith placed in Reyes. Dave Duncan working with Weaver. By the end of the season the Cards were built like a wrecking ball. That fact was masked by a late-season slump, but all the parts were there. The Cards toyed with each team they played against last postseason; really none of their opponents had a chance. I saw it before it unfolded, if you'll remember. They were prepped to destroy, and they did.

OnBaseMachine
03-18-2007, 07:27 PM
If Pedro Martinez had been healthy for the playoffs then the Mets would have won that series easily. Easily.

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 07:28 PM
If Pedro Martinez had been healthy for the playoffs then the Mets would have won that series easily. Easily.

It would have been closer, I'll grant you. But teams of destiny have a look about them. They have guys like Molina tear apart the "greatest" closer of the last ten years.

OnBaseMachine
03-18-2007, 07:29 PM
Replay that series 10 times and the Mets would win it seven times.

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 07:32 PM
Replay that series 10 times and the Mets would win it seven times.

With the same rosters? That's just a ridiculous statement. It looked close, but the Cards never looked even remotely shaken.

That series was close in the way the 1975 World Series was "close." Not at all, despite going 7 games. Sometimes the loser gets a tad lucky.

OnBaseMachine
03-18-2007, 07:43 PM
With the same rosters? That's just a ridiculous statement. It looked close, but the Cards never looked even remotely shaken.

That series was close in the way the 1975 World Series was "close." Not at all, despite going 7 games. Sometimes the loser gets a tad lucky.

Yes, with the same rosters. The Cards were a very, very slightly above average team who just happened to get lucky.

KronoRed
03-18-2007, 07:43 PM
they did that once already, he came back like a bad rash

They make creams for that

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 07:47 PM
Yes, with the same rosters. The Cards were a very, very slightly above average team who just happened to get lucky.

I guess you didn't see what I saw last postseason. Nothing average about what they accomplished. In the same way there was nothing average about what the 1990 Reds did (like the 2006 Cards, another completely underrated, disrespected club).

I would put up that late season version of the Cardinals against of the great teams of the past; same with the 1990 Reds.

M2
03-18-2007, 07:50 PM
They out-everything-ed the Mets in that Series, though. My take is that it took a superlong time to get all the pieces in the right place. Izzy out; Wainwright in. Duncan more ABs. Faith placed in Reyes. Dave Duncan working with Weaver. By the end of the season the Cards were built like a wrecking ball. That fact was masked by a late-season slump, but all the parts were there. The Cards toyed with each team they played against last postseason; really none of their opponents had a chance. I saw it before it unfolded, if you'll remember. They were prepped to destroy, and they did.

Out-everythinged? The series went down to the last pitch. The runs scored were 28-27 for all seven games. It's completely preposterous to act like that was anything but an Ali-Frazier type of affair. The loser of that series deserves every bit as much respect as the winner.

Like I said, I'm with you that the Cardinals got it together to create maximum danger in the postseason. And once again, note the one team that stood toe-to-toe with them. My take is St. Louis got a little lucky in that the Mets lost Pedro after the trade deadline and El Duque right on the doorstep of the playoffs. They didn't quite have as much time to adjust.

Of course Maine stepped up to beat Chris Carpenter to force a game seven and Perez, who won game four, pitched Jeff Suppan ito a draw in the money game only to see Yadi Molina take a heroic turn against Aaron Heilman. And you don't like these guys why?

They're young. They've got stuff aplenty. They've been through their growing pains. Was there a point in time in the recent past when anyone could have had them? Yep, and 29 other teams are going to be smacking themselves.

OnBaseMachine
03-18-2007, 08:02 PM
I would put up that late season version of the Cardinals against of the great teams of the past; same with the 1990 Reds.

Wow, just wow. That's all I've got to say.

We're talking about a team that barely finished above .500. Our Reds went 9-6 against the Cardinals last season, and had we had the luxury of playing the woeful Royals six times, then maybe that could have been our Reds playing in the playofs instead of the Cardinals.

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 08:02 PM
If the Mets slip at all coming out of the gate this year, they're going to be left in the dust by Atlanta and maybe even the Phils.

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 08:04 PM
Wow, just wow. That's all I've got to say.

We're talking about a team that barely finished above .500. Our Reds went 9-6 against the Cardinals last season, and had we had the luxury of playing the woeful Royals six times, then maybe that could have been our Reds playing in the playofs instead of the Cardinals.

I've said it a million times: give me two starters and an untouchable bullpen, and I'll give you a world champion.

M2
03-18-2007, 08:26 PM
If the Mets slip at all coming out of the gate this year, they're going to be left in the dust by Atlanta and maybe even the Phils.

Count me as not in love with the Phillies. Jamie Moyer in a power park? Adam Eaton? I don't like their offense that much (could be Howard, Utley and a ball of dust). I don't like their defense that much (Rollins, Rowand and statues). I really don't like their bullpen. Flash Gordon, a personal favorite of mine, may have hit his career wall in the second half of last season.

I'm not saying the team sucks, but I don't see them winning more than 90 and I figure 95 is the buy-in for that division.

Falls City Beer
03-18-2007, 08:48 PM
Count me as not in love with the Phillies. Jamie Moyer in a power park? Adam Eaton? I don't like their offense that much (could be Howard, Utley and a ball of dust). I don't like their defense that much (Rollins, Rowand and statues). I really don't like their bullpen. Flash Gordon, a personal favorite of mine, may have hit his career wall in the second half of last season.

I'm not saying the team sucks, but I don't see them winning more than 90 and I figure 95 is the buy-in for that division.

They'll probably disappoint. It's in their collective unconscious.

M2
03-18-2007, 08:57 PM
They'll probably disappoint. It's in their collective unconscious.

I've also found the Phillies have incredibly fragile teams, mentally speaking. IMO it goes to playing in front of a fanbase that wants to hate you.

jmac
03-18-2007, 09:20 PM
I've said it a million times: give me two starters and an untouchable bullpen, and I'll give you a world champion.

We've got the 2 starters ....now to just work on that bullpen.

RedFanAlways1966
03-18-2007, 09:38 PM
We're talking about a team that barely finished above .500. Our Reds went 9-6 against the Cardinals last season, and had we had the luxury of playing the woeful Royals six times, then maybe that could have been our Reds playing in the playofs instead of the Cardinals.

Have to agree.

Average wins per team in 2006
NL EAST: 82 wins
NL WEST: 80.8 wins
NL CENT: 75.5 wins

The Cards were only 83-78 despite having the two worst NL teams in their own division, Pirates (67-95) and Cubs (66-96). The had only the 5th best record in the NL last year. One NL team with a better record didn't even make the playoffs (Philly). They ended up the champion, but weren't near the champion in regular season play.

TOBTTReds
03-18-2007, 09:54 PM
I would put up that late season version of the Cardinals against of the great teams of the past

Wait...you mean the team that went 12-17 after August 31? Including a 7 game losing streak that ended with 5 games left in the season!

They tried to give the division title away so bad...but we just couldn't get it.

I KNOW A LOT
03-19-2007, 12:02 AM
Thanks for the great forum!