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Spike
03-20-2007, 12:21 AM
Narron was quoted as saying: Stuff-wise, he's probably got the best of anybody in our bullpen." -- Narron, on Rule 5 Draft pick Jared Burton, a 25-year-old right-hander

I have quietly been promoting Burton, at least for a look see. With the new press on Hermanson, I don't know if it will happen, but if Burton has the stuff, it would be tough to let him go.

dougdirt
03-20-2007, 12:27 AM
It would really be a shame if Burton and "the best stuff in the bullpen" were to be cut to make way for a soft tosser like Cormier or Hermanson.....

Nugget
03-20-2007, 12:33 AM
Didn't Narron also say the same thing about Lohse in reference to the rotation. The fact that they cut Lightenberg and Salmon probably bodes well for Burton.

Just reading the stuff about closing (especially what Everyday Eddie said) its not always about stuff but the mind too. So there's more to closing than just having the best fastball and curve.

Johnny Footstool
03-20-2007, 12:59 AM
What has Burton done in the minors to warrant a shot in a major league bullpen?

M2
03-20-2007, 01:05 AM
What has Burton done in the minors to warrant a shot in a major league bullpen?

Nothing in particular, but I'm willing to watch the frachise throw some crap against the wall provided it's being thrown at high velocity.

Ravenlord
03-20-2007, 01:37 AM
Nothing in particular, but I'm willing to watch the frachise throw some crap against the wall provided it's being throw at high velocity.

that would be a very welcome change.

halcyon
03-20-2007, 01:49 AM
Yeah, I guess if you're going to experiment then you might as well try it with guys who have "stuff". It also helps that the Reds aren't swimming in guys with the aforementioned "stuff".

mth123
03-20-2007, 05:36 AM
What has Burton done in the minors to warrant a shot in a major league bullpen?

Right now nothing. But 2009 is the time for this team and by then Burton and his stuff could be contributing. None of the geezers will still be around then and the other guys can still be stashed at AAA. To get his arm in the organization Burton needs to be kept. For me its as simple as that. With this pen, 2007 is not as an important consideration IMO.

Burton is in the same boat as Hamilton. Step one is to secure them in the organization.

Heath
03-20-2007, 07:00 AM
Burton is in the same boat as Hamilton. Step one is to secure them in the organization.

A little out of petty cash should be able to keep Burton in Cincinnati.

RANDY IN INDY
03-20-2007, 07:52 AM
Nothing in particular, but I'm willing to watch the frachise throw some crap against the wall provided it's being throw at high velocity.

Absolutely! :clap: :beerme:

GAC
03-20-2007, 08:08 AM
I don't know much about this kid; but if he hasn't been seen much at all in the majors then that might be a plus (at least for a year). ;)

Krusty
03-20-2007, 09:48 AM
I still think Cormier will be dealt before Opening Day, which will create a spot for Burton.

LincolnparkRed
03-20-2007, 10:09 AM
I still think Cormier will be dealt before Opening Day, which will create a spot for Burton.

Dare to dream. Maybe Philly will take him back. Also with the annual Wood injury the Cubs are looking for help. I know they say don't trade within your division but I would think Cormier to the Cubs would be a win-win situation for us.

REDREAD
03-20-2007, 10:11 AM
What has Burton done in the minors to warrant a shot in a major league bullpen?

You raise a good point Johnny.

I see Burton as potentially a part in rebuilding the pitching staff. I'd like to have him on the team as the 12th man on the staff, and let him pitch 40-50 innings of mop up (or a more important role if his performance warrants it).

Then next year, he can be optioned to the minors if need be.

He clearly seems to be our best relief pitching prospect, so I think we need to hold on to him.

This year, Burton may be no better than the old guys, but hopefully he'll be a solid contributor down the road. With a 12 man staff, we could carry him. Put Maj on the DL until you can unload Cormier and free up a roster spot.

MaineRed
03-20-2007, 10:17 AM
Its amazing how much weight the word of one Jerry Narron carries when folks agree with what he says.

Chip R
03-20-2007, 10:21 AM
Its amazing how much weight the word of one Jerry Narron carries when folks agree with what he says.


Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

flyer85
03-20-2007, 10:58 AM
what has Josh Hamilton done in the minors to warrant a shot on a major league roster?

A lot less than Jared Burton.

The reason these guys were rule 5 draftees was based on their potential and talent. If it comes together they could be major contributors because they have significant upsides. Unlike a number of players who will be on the roster who have no upside.

Johnny Footstool
03-20-2007, 11:03 AM
Meanwhile, Brad Salmon ages another year in AAA, despite putting together better minor league numbers than Burton the past two seasons.

Slider
03-20-2007, 11:06 AM
What do we have to lose?

It's not like we're going to be in a world series this year.

I'd rather take a few chances and position this club to compete in the future. Yes the head is important...but it's immaterial if your don't have the talent...in this case the arm. If we have decent coaches we should be able to coach the mindset necessary for success. Give me the talent every time.

Let's let 'em play.

KoryMac5
03-20-2007, 11:17 AM
Meanwhile, Brad Salmon ages another year in AAA, despite putting together better minor league numbers than Burton the past two seasons.

The Reds always say they want to bring the best players north with the big club. Unfortunately this isn't true, the Reds are all about who has options and who doesn't.

I would love to see a pen of
Burton, Salmon, Coffey, Bray, Countlangus, Maj when healthy

than this thing

Burton, Stanton, Coffey, Hermanson, Stanton, Cormier, Weathers

dfs
03-20-2007, 11:22 AM
The Reds always say they want to bring the best players north with the big club. Unfortunately this isn't true, the Reds are all about who has options and who doesn't.

I would love to see a pen of
Burton, Salmon, Coffey, Bray, Countlangus, Maj when healthy

than this thing
Burton, Stanton, Coffey, Hermanson, Stanton, Cormier, Weathers

I understand your frustration, but the way Narron tends to go through bullpen arms, I think it's very likely that most of the gentlemen you name in your "love to see" line will be pitching down by the river this year.

Who comes north is of far less concern than who actually gets the bulk of the playing time. I know it will cost the reds a couple of games while they act all shocked that ..."hey, Rick White's done? Who could've known?" but given this manager, having multiple arms around is a good thing. I'm still not convinced that Bray is coming north, but that's just me.

During the off season I thought the reds needed to take care of shortstop and centerfield. They've done that. Now Narron needs to figure out how to keep guys in regular roles instead of burning them out.

RedlegNation
03-20-2007, 11:30 AM
I still think Cormier will be dealt before Opening Day, which will create a spot for Burton.

Just this thought makes me warm and fuzzy inside. I'd trade him for three coneys, as long as the coneys had a lot of cheese on them.

RedlegNation
03-20-2007, 11:31 AM
Meanwhile, Brad Salmon ages another year in AAA, despite putting together better minor league numbers than Burton the past two seasons.

Bring them both north!

M2
03-20-2007, 12:07 PM
Meanwhile, Brad Salmon ages another year in AAA, despite putting together better minor league numbers than Burton the past two seasons.

I hear you. My guess is Burton impressed the club enough to get first dibs on an open reliever's slot, particularly given his waiver situation. If the clubs considers it a wash, or a near wash, I can see why Burton's Rule 5 status would tip the scales.

The good news for Salmon is if he continues to deal heat then he's going to get his shot in the majors soon enough. This bullpen will defintely see a few washouts.

Nugget
03-20-2007, 07:26 PM
Krisky has previously said that a lot of decisions are going to come down to options. That's probably why you will end up seeing Hopper and Deno in AAA as well.

Doc. Scott
03-20-2007, 07:27 PM
I still think Cormier will be dealt before Opening Day, which will create a spot for Burton.

Krusty, are you really going to pin all those hopes on what John Fay keeps repeating?

Doc. Scott
03-20-2007, 07:30 PM
I hear you. My guess is Burton impressed the club enough to get first dibs on an open reliever's slot, particularly given his waiver situation. If the clubs considers it a wash, or a near wash, I can see why Burton's Rule 5 status would tip the scales.

The good news for Salmon is if he continues to deal heat then he's going to get his shot in the majors soon enough. This bullpen will defintely see a few washouts.

Salmon, because he just got optioned for the first time, can be yo-yoed up and down I-75 through the end of 2009. Unless he collapses or his arm turns into Mrs. Paul's, you'll see him at some point. To stick over guys with less time, he'll have to hit the ground running when the Reds do give him that first shot.

OnBaseMachine
03-20-2007, 08:29 PM
Reds not ruling out Burton
Rule 5 pick 'has a real good arm'
BY JOHN FAY | JFAY@ENQUIRER.COM

LAKELAND, Fla. - It's pretty clear that if the Reds had a roster spot to burn, right-hander Jared Burton would make the team.

His stuff is that good.

"He has a real good arm," manager Jerry Narron said. "The big thing with him is can he throw strikes. His arm - stuff-wise - he's probably got the best of anybody in our bullpen."

Burton, a 25-year-old right-hander, is a Rule 5 pick. The Reds must keep him on the 25-man roster all year or offer him back to the Oakland A's for half the $50,000 the Reds paid to select him.

It won't be easy to find a roster spot, however. Five spots, Narron said, are pretty set - left-handers Mike Stanton, Bill Bray and Rheal Cormier and right-handers David Weathers and Todd Coffey.

Dustin Hermanson is likely to get another one of the spots. In fact, it looks as if he's going to be the closer.

That's six relievers. The Reds will likely keep 12 pitchers.

Kirk Saarloos would be the seventh reliever, if Matt Belisle wins the fifth starter's job. Belisle has pitched extremely well and looks like a lock to take the fifth spot. (Don't completely write Saarloos off as the fifth starter: He pitched six innings of shutout ball in a minor-league game Monday.)

Belisle has options, so there's a possibility, albeit very slim, that Belisle starts the year in Triple-A and Saarloos joins the rotation.

Burton survived a cut on Monday, when the Reds optioned Brian Shackelford and Brad Salmon to Triple-A Louisville.

Narron doesn't concern himself with Burton's Rule 5 status.

"I'm just worried about people who can get guys out," he said.

The other possibility is a trade. Cormier, maybe? The Reds could live with two left-handers in the bullpen. But Cormier makes $2.25 million this year.

The other factor is Gary Majewski, who will need a roster spot when he's healthy. He's likely to begin the year on the disabled list.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070320/SPT04/703200318/1071

No you're not Jerry, or else Cormier and/or Stanton wouldn't be locks to make this club.

mth123
03-20-2007, 11:45 PM
Meanwhile, Brad Salmon ages another year in AAA, despite putting together better minor league numbers than Burton the past two seasons.

I agree, they should both be on the team. Its why I was whining like a spoiled baby when the team was signing Stanton and Weathers and not doing anything to move Cormier in a hot off-season pitching market. But if sending Salmon down allows then to keep Burton so both are available in 2008 or 2009 when the team has an actual chance to be good, I say its unfortunate but the right thing for the long run.

Caveat Emperor
03-21-2007, 12:04 AM
Dustin Hermanson is likely to get another one of the spots. In fact, it looks as if he's going to be the closer.

This is the real baffler -- he's not a guaranteed deal like Stanton and Cormier and he doesn't have stuff like Salmon or Burton.

I genuinely don't get why this guy is sticking around.

dougdirt
03-21-2007, 01:20 AM
This is the real baffler -- he's not a guaranteed deal like Stanton and Cormier and he doesn't have stuff like Salmon or Burton.

I genuinely don't get why this guy is sticking around.

That makes two of us. With the reports of his stuff, the Reds brass cant honestly believe he can get out major league hitters on a consistant basis do they?

paulrichjr
03-21-2007, 09:06 AM
That makes two of us. With the reports of his stuff, the Reds brass cant honestly believe he can get out major league hitters on a consistant basis do they?

Yes they do. Just look at the amazing stuff that the relievers had last year that WayneK brought in. This man has a weakness...he cannot make a decision that makes sense in the bullpen. Everywhere else he is good but it all started with Hancock last year and then just snowballed.

Johnny Footstool
03-21-2007, 10:28 AM
That makes two of us. With the reports of his stuff, the Reds brass cant honestly believe he can get out major league hitters on a consistant basis do they?

He's got intestinal fortitude: G - U - T - S. Why, I'd follow that magnificent b*stard straight into hell if he asked.
:usa:

Obviously, Narron and Krivsky value something other than the ability to get guys out.