PDA

View Full Version : Horrible Lineup news



geniusMoment
03-23-2007, 11:17 PM
Per Fays blog this is one lineup Narron is considering for the season opener:

Freel
Hatteberg
Phillips
Griffey
Encarnacion
Dunn
Ross
Gonzo

Raisor
03-23-2007, 11:19 PM
Oh dear.

At least he's got 1, 8 and 9 right.

KronoRed
03-23-2007, 11:20 PM
Fay has got to be insane, or Narron is.

Raisor
03-23-2007, 11:24 PM
Fay has got to be insane, or Narron is.


why can't they both be?

Heck, add Puffy and the guy talking to himself in front of my apartment and you'd have a pretty good foursome for golf.

Natty Redlocks
03-23-2007, 11:28 PM
Actually anything that bumps Griffey from #3 looks like a good precedent to me. I'd almost rather turn it upside down though.

Raisor
03-23-2007, 11:32 PM
I want the ALL SCRAPPY LINEUP~!

Freel
Castro
Hatteberg
Coninnine
Deno
Gonzo
El Stachio Grande
Marty B.

oneupper
03-23-2007, 11:36 PM
Seeing Narron's spring training lineups you can totally infer this sort of thing.
Phillips has been seeing a lot of ABs in the 3 spot.

Not that Fay is right very often.

Tom Servo
03-23-2007, 11:36 PM
Honestly, knowing Narron I was expecting worse. Like, AGon leading off worse.

Jefferson24
03-23-2007, 11:38 PM
Griffey wont be in the season opener.

marcshoe
03-23-2007, 11:39 PM
When I saw the thread title I thought for sure Gonzo was going to be batting second.

What would be the logic of batting Phillips third? Is there something I'm missing? I can't come up with any reason for doing this. I'm not saying I can't come up with a good reason; I'm saying I can't even come up with a bad reason.

None at all.

Not that Dunn batting sixth makes much more sense....

edabbs44
03-23-2007, 11:40 PM
How many neg rep points would Narron get if he secretly put that lineup on a thread on RZ?

Seriously...Dunn could be looking at a historically awful season for himself if he hits in front of Ross and Gonzalez. His runs scored would be a career low, no doubt.

pedro
03-23-2007, 11:42 PM
I could live with it if they just swapped Dunn & Phillips. I just can't understand why they wouldn't want a guy like Phillips who puts the ball in play a lot hitting lower in the order where he can get some cheap RBI.

edabbs44
03-23-2007, 11:43 PM
I could live with it if they just swapped Dunn & Phillips. I just can't understand why they wouldn't want a guy like Phillips who puts the ball in play a lot hitting lower in the order where he can get some cheap RBI.

I would need to see Jr swapped with EdE as well.

pedro
03-23-2007, 11:45 PM
I would need to see Jr swapped with EdE as well.

That makes sense.

Tom Servo
03-23-2007, 11:46 PM
When I saw the thread title I thought for sure Gonzo was going to be batting second.

What would be the logic of batting Phillips third? Is there something I'm missing? I can't come up with any reason for doing this. I'm not saying I can't come up with a good reason; I'm saying I can't even come up with a bad reason.

None at all.

Not that Dunn batting sixth makes much more sense....
My best guess for BP in the #3 hole is that Narron figures if he hit 17 homeruns and with 75 RBI's last year that a bulked up Brandon could put up even better numbers batting 3rd. The logic flaw here is that Brandon has a very low OBP for someone batting at the top of the lineup and he hit into a ton of double plays last year as well.

Patrick Bateman
03-23-2007, 11:46 PM
I was hoping for something more along the lines of:

1. Freel
2. Hatteberg
3. Dunn
4. Encarnacion
5. Griffey
6. Phillips
7. Ross
8. Gonzalez

The line-up that Narron seems to be proposing is awful and insane. Having your best hitters in the 5-6 slots is not smart.

KronoRed
03-23-2007, 11:49 PM
I can see where Fay might have dug this one up, this lineup is R-L-R-L-R-L-R-R and Narron did like to split the lefties last year.

reds44
03-23-2007, 11:52 PM
If you flip Dunn and Griffey, I actually don't hate that lineup. Narron doesn't want 3 out of 4 lefties 2-6, which I can understand. Dunn can't bat 6th though.

geniusMoment
03-23-2007, 11:58 PM
These are the 3 Fay says he is considering, do you guys like the other two better than the first?

Asked Jerry Narron about the lineup before the game. Basically, he's leading toward going to bat the left-handers second, fourth and sixth. Brandon Phillips will likely be third, Edwin Encarnacion fifth. (Sounds like Josh Hamilton will go in Ken Griffey Jr.'s spot if Griffey on the DL).

Hasn't decided where the lefties -- Griffey, Adam Dunn and Scott Hatteberg -- will hit. Only thing absolutely set is Ryan Freel will hit leadoff.

There are a lot of possibilities:

Freel
Hatteberg
Phillips
Griffey Jr.
Encarnacion
Dunn
David Ross
Alex Gonzalez

or
Freel
Griffey
Phillips
Dunn
Encarnacion
Hatteberg
Ross
Gonzalez

or
Freel
Dunn
Phillips
Griffey
Encarnacion
Hatteberg
Ross
Gonzalez

marcshoe
03-23-2007, 11:58 PM
I was hoping for something more along the lines of:

1. Freel
2. Hatteberg
3. Dunn
4. Encarnacion
5. Griffey
6. Phillips
7. Ross
8. Gonzalez

The line-up that Narron seems to be proposing is awful and insane. Having your best hitters in the 5-6 slots is not smart.

That lineup is way too obvious. otoh, the Cubs would never expect the Reds to hit Phillips third....that has to be it--the element of surprise. Sneak up on them. :help:

Reds Fanatic
03-23-2007, 11:59 PM
Dunn won't get anything to hit if he is stuck batting 6th. The reason Narron probably likes this lineup is the rightly-lefty-rightly-lefty-righty-lefty-righty in the first 7 spots but it is a big mistake batting Dunn 6th.

reds44
03-24-2007, 12:01 AM
These are the 3 Fay says he is considering, do you guys like the other two better than the first?

Asked Jerry Narron about the lineup before the game. Basically, he's leading toward going to bat the left-handers second, fourth and sixth. Brandon Phillips will likely be third, Edwin Encarnacion fifth. (Sounds like Josh Hamilton will go in Ken Griffey Jr.'s spot if Griffey on the DL).

Hasn't decided where the lefties -- Griffey, Adam Dunn and Scott Hatteberg -- will hit. Only thing absolutely set is Ryan Freel will hit leadoff.

There are a lot of possibilities:

Freel
Hatteberg
Phillips
Griffey Jr.
Encarnacion
Dunn
David Ross
Alex Gonzalez

or
Freel
Griffey
Phillips
Dunn
Encarnacion
Hatteberg
Ross
Gonzalez

or
Freel
Dunn
Phillips
Griffey
Encarnacion
Hatteberg
Ross
Gonzalez
The 2nd and 3rd are much better then the first. I probably like the last one the best.

Tom Servo
03-24-2007, 12:02 AM
or
Freel
Griffey
Phillips
Dunn
Encarnacion
Hatteberg
Ross
Gonzalez

This one is pretty respectable (assuming Griffey cans the free swinging from last year), although I'd prefer to see EE and BP switched.

reds44
03-24-2007, 12:04 AM
This one is pretty respectable (assuming Griffey cans the free swinging from last year), although I'd prefer to see EE and BP switched.
.316 OBP batting 2nd? Yikes. We all know how he fell in love with that first pitch too.

I'd like to have Dunn bat 2nd just because he'll get on base and give Freel some pitches to run on.

Reds Fanatic
03-24-2007, 12:04 AM
The 2nd and 3rd are much better then the first. I probably like the last one the best.
I also like the last one the best. Dunn has done well batting 2nd in the past.

Schmitbuck
03-24-2007, 12:07 AM
I don't have a huge problem with it. I kind of like hatteberg at 2nd in the order if he performs like last year with a high OBP. I like the separating of Dunn and Jr in the order. I think we're just missing a solid #3 hitter. Hopefully EE turns into one with age.

Tom Servo
03-24-2007, 12:13 AM
.316 OBP batting 2nd? Yikes. We all know how he fell in love with that first pitch too.

I'd like to have Dunn bat 2nd just because he'll get on base and give Freel some pitches to run on.
I'd tend to think Junior's low OBP last year was just an anomaly, so I wouldn't have a problem batting him #2 and see where it goes. Dunn #2 would be fine with me as well, though.


And for the idea that many have of Hatte hitting second, I don't have the stats offhand, but even with his noted walk profiency Hatte was dreadful all around in the #2 hole last year. He hit much better batting 5th and 6th.

KronoRed
03-24-2007, 12:17 AM
All 3 are pretty awful, put Phillips 2 if you want him near the top of the lineup.

Freel
Phillips
Dunn
EE
JR
Hat
Ross
Gonzo

would be my choice.

RedsManRick
03-24-2007, 12:27 AM
Brandon Phillips should not be getting more at bats than Junior, Dunn, or EE. Period.

Did you realize that Phillips slugged less than Hatteberg (.427 vs .436)? He got on base a TON less than Hatteberg.

Batting Dunn and his OBP any lower than 5th, particularly given the other guys ahead of his, is pretty strong truth that Narron doesn't get it. If you really wanna worry about L/R/L/R (and you shouldn't, because Dunn hits Lefties better than Phillips hits righties), then bat Junior or Hatteberg 2nd, EE 3rd, and Dunn cleanup.

I say screw the lefty/right issues -- Dunn is that much more productive against anybody than the other options that it really doesn't matter.

Freel/Deno
Dunn
EE
Junior
Hat
Phillips
Ross
Gonzalez

Dunn's line batting 2nd the last 3 years? .308/.425/.564. That's right, as a #2 hitter, Dunn batted .308.

Big Klu
03-24-2007, 12:31 AM
I would prefer:

Freel cf
Dunn lf
Encarnacion 3b
Griffey rf
Phillips 2b
Hatteberg 1b
Ross c
Gonzalez ss
Harang p


If Griffey is not ready by Opening Day, then I would prefer:

Freel cf
Hatteberg 1b
Encarnacion 3b
Dunn lf
Phillips 2b
Hamilton rf
Ross c
Gonzalez ss
Harang p

KoryMac5
03-24-2007, 12:31 AM
Narron hasn't given a straight answer all spring so I doubt this lineup will be used opening day. It will probably be used for game 2. :lastyear:

flyer85
03-24-2007, 12:44 AM
Even Narron isn't that stupid ... I hope. :D

HumnHilghtFreel
03-24-2007, 12:45 AM
All 3 are pretty awful, put Phillips 2 if you want him near the top of the lineup.

Freel
Phillips
Dunn
EE
JR
Hat
Ross
Gonzo

would be my choice.

This is what I'd like to see as well

CTA513
03-24-2007, 12:52 AM
Dunn won't get anything to hit if he is stuck batting 6th. The reason Narron probably likes this lineup is the rightly-lefty-rightly-lefty-righty-lefty-righty in the first 7 spots but it is a big mistake batting Dunn 6th.

If hes batting 6th then we can expect him to be pitched around to face the guys behind him.

We shouldnt worry though, this is probably lineup 1 of 130+. ;)

Ron Madden
03-24-2007, 05:33 AM
IMHO Narron and many other Managers put far too much stock into staggering their line ups left, right, left, right.....

Put your best OBP and OPS hitters 1-5 in line up in order to get them more ABs to increase your chances of avoiding outs and scoring runs. :rant:

pedro
03-24-2007, 05:38 AM
I like it.


I would prefer:

Freel cf
Dunn lf
Encarnacion 3b
Griffey rf
Phillips 2b
Hatteberg 1b
Ross c
Gonzalez ss
Harang p


If Griffey is not ready by Opening Day, then I would prefer:

Freel cf
Hatteberg 1b
Encarnacion 3b
Dunn lf
Phillips 2b
Hamilton rf
Ross c
Gonzalez ss
Harang p

geniusMoment
03-24-2007, 06:47 AM
This is my lineup:

Freel
Hatteberg
Dunn
Encarnacion
Griffey
Phillips
Ross
Gonzo

I like Dunn in the 3 hole because I think he's going to have a huge year, and I want more people on base for him.

mth123
03-24-2007, 06:53 AM
Freel
Dunn
EdE
Griffey
Ross
Hatte
Phillips
Gonzo

RedsBaron
03-24-2007, 06:54 AM
I hope that Fay is wrong, but if his article is correct, I'm reduced to hoping that at least once before I die that the Reds get a manager with at least a room temperature baseball IQ. Boone, Miley, Narron......I can't take much more of this.

Redhook
03-24-2007, 07:46 AM
I hope that Fay is wrong, but if his article is correct, I'm reduced to hoping that at least once before I die that the Reds get a manager with at least a room temperature baseball IQ. Boone, Miley, Narron......I can't take much more of this.

Narron might be a good clubhouse guy, but just thinking out loud about putting Dunn in the 6th spot just proves how much of an idiot he actually is. Unbelievable. I don't think he'll do it, but it's beyond my comprehension to even think about Dunn batting anywhere in the order other than 2-4.

hebroncougar
03-24-2007, 08:04 AM
Baseball guy strikes again..............

MrCinatit
03-24-2007, 08:50 AM
We must realize, this is Jerry Narron we are talking about.
I would not be surprised to see this lineup opening day. I would be very surprised if this lineup was not used sometime during the season. I would also be very surprised if Gonzo does not lead off, bat second and bat third in at least one game this year.
I have a feeling we are going to be in for another long year of the juggling batting rotation again this year.

Redsland
03-24-2007, 01:19 PM
I kinda like today's ST lineup:

Ryan Freel CF
Adam Dunn LF
Brandon Phillips 2B
Ken Griffey Jr. RF
Edwin Encarnacion 3B
Joey Votto 1B
Alex Gonzalez SS
David Ross C
Bronson Arroyo P

Swap in Hatte for Votto, and that looks like a winner to me.

KronoRed
03-24-2007, 01:35 PM
That and swap EE and Phillips and it would be near perfect

Matt700wlw
03-24-2007, 01:37 PM
Where's Hamilton?

:D

Unassisted
03-24-2007, 01:46 PM
I wouldn't worry about this lineup until it shows up on game day. Considering that Narron used 140 lineups in '06, the lineup in this article is bound to come up on the roulette wheel at some point.

Handofdeath
03-24-2007, 02:15 PM
I was hoping for something more along the lines of:

1. Freel
2. Hatteberg
3. Dunn
4. Encarnacion
5. Griffey
6. Phillips
7. Ross
8. Gonzalez

The line-up that Narron seems to be proposing is awful and insane. Having your best hitters in the 5-6 slots is not smart.

Dunn's lifetime OPS in the 3rd spot is .828. He's a #5 or #6 hitter to me. My lineup would be this

1. Freel
2. Hatteburg
3. Encarnacion
4. Griffey
5. Dunn
6. Phillips
7. Ross
8. Gonzalez

mth123
03-24-2007, 02:16 PM
I kinda like today's ST lineup:

Ryan Freel CF
Adam Dunn LF
Brandon Phillips 2B
Ken Griffey Jr. RF
Edwin Encarnacion 3B
Joey Votto 1B
Alex Gonzalez SS
David Ross C
Bronson Arroyo P

Swap in Hatte for Votto, and that looks like a winner to me.

Of course with Hatte back, he could go to #2 and Dunn drop down to #6 :scared:

doug flynn
03-24-2007, 02:39 PM
Rose
Griffey
Morgan
Foster
Perez
Bench
Conception
Gerronimo
Seaver

and a time warp machine... ;)

mth123
03-24-2007, 03:17 PM
Rose
Griffey
Morgan
Foster
Perez
Bench
Conception
Gerronimo
Seaver

and a time warp machine... ;)

Of course Perez was gone by the time Seaver came along...

Patrick Bateman
03-24-2007, 03:32 PM
Dunn's lifetime OPS in the 3rd spot is .828. He's a #5 or #6 hitter to me. My lineup would be this



I really don't read into that a whole lot. I think the key thing is having a good hitter like EE behind him, and he should do fine.

I think he needs to be in the 2-4 slots. No reason for your best hitter to be in the 5+ slots.

Handofdeath
03-24-2007, 07:42 PM
I really don't read into that a whole lot. I think the key thing is having a good hitter like EE behind him, and he should do fine.

I think he needs to be in the 2-4 slots. No reason for your best hitter to be in the 5+ slots.

I don't think the Reds look at him as the best hitter. When the heat's on it's EE. If the Reds thought that highly of him they would probably have locked him by now long term. How those here at Redszone view Dunn and how the Reds organization and the rest of baseball view him are not necessarily going to be in the same way. And you can say that about any player.

Highlifeman21
03-25-2007, 12:45 AM
Per Fays blog this is one lineup Narron is considering for the season opener:

Freel
Hatteberg
Phillips
Griffey
Encarnacion
Dunn
Ross
Gonzo

Worst

Lineup

Ever


Phillips @ anything but the 6th is no good

Dunn @ anything not 3-5 is criminal

7 and 8 are pretty accurate though. If either of those bat anything but 7 or 8, then Narron's head should be served on a platter to the Cincinnati Reds' faithful.

Wow.

Highlifeman21
03-25-2007, 12:48 AM
I was hoping for something more along the lines of:

1. Freel
2. Hatteberg
3. Dunn
4. Encarnacion
5. Griffey
6. Phillips
7. Ross
8. Gonzalez
The line-up that Narron seems to be proposing is awful and insane. Having your best hitters in the 5-6 slots is not smart.

Swap Denorfia with Freel, and that's a lineup we need to see 150+ games in 2007.

Even if we have to suffer Freel as an everyday, that's still probably the best lineup available if Hamitlon isn't "deemed" a starter.

Highlifeman21
03-25-2007, 12:50 AM
That lineup is way too obvious. otoh, the Cubs would never expect the Reds to hit Phillips third....that has to be it--the element of surprise. Sneak up on them. :help:

No one ever expected the Spanish Inquisition.

Slyder
03-27-2007, 01:41 PM
Dunn's lifetime OPS in the 3rd spot is .828. He's a #5 or #6 hitter to me. My lineup would be this

1. Freel
2. Hatteburg
3. Encarnacion
4. Griffey
5. Dunn
6. Phillips
7. Ross
8. Gonzalez

3 yr ave OPS in the 3 spot .928. With that said....

My Opening Day Reds
1 Freel CF
2 Dunn LF
3 Encarncion 3b
4 Griffey RF (and hope last year was an aberation)
5 Hatteberg 1b
6 Phillips 2b
7 Ross C
8 Gonzalez

Dunn's 3 yr OPS batting 2nd is .989 the kicker for me though is he's a .308 hitter with an obp of .424. Until he proves he can get the Sac Fly, base hit rbi consistantly he's a huge #2. Batting him any lower than 4 minimalizes any value he brings because below that they will always walk him when they can to get to some average joe.

paulrichjr
03-27-2007, 01:45 PM
Why can't Hamilton lead off? I think he would get on base more than Freel and it has been suggested that he has some good speed and can steal. Why is Freel or Denorfia better at leadoff than Hamilton?

KronoRed
03-27-2007, 01:53 PM
He's never swung a bat in a major league game would be one reason.

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
03-27-2007, 04:04 PM
He's never swung a bat in a major league game would be one reason.
Neither has Alex Gordon

dougdirt
03-27-2007, 04:08 PM
Neither has Alex Gordon

Alex Gordon hit .325/.427/.588 last year in AA in his first year of pro ball after winning the Collegiate Player of the Year Award. Josh Hamilton has less than 100 plate appearances in pro baseball in the last 3 years... including spring training.

Eric_Davis
03-27-2007, 04:12 PM
Per Fays blog this is one lineup Narron is considering for the season opener:

Freel
Hatteberg
Phillips
Griffey
Encarnacion
Dunn
Ross
Gonzo

I love that lineup.

....and what was Bill James saying the other day when he said, "It doesn't matter where you put someone in the lineup". He spent 1000's and 1000's of hours proving otherwise.

Has he just come full circle and realize that Sparky and Cito Gaston were right? Just run the same 8 guys out there everyday and let them play.

Slyder
03-27-2007, 05:51 PM
Neither has Alex Gordon

Plus he plays for KC. It wouldnt be baseball if the Royals actually had talent so they didnt have to thrust the spects into the majors in leadoff type positions ;).