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View Full Version : Gammons: The '02 All-Star game ended in a tie because one pitcher was drunk



jmcclain19
03-25-2007, 10:02 PM
Interesting that Gammons points the finger at an unnamed pitcher from an unnamed club as the reason the All Star game now "counts"


One of baseball's silliest notions is to pretend the All-Star exhibition "means" something, more than the price ticketholders spend in September, when games should be more important than something no one cares about. As it turns out, the reason the 2002 All-Star Game ended up tied was that a pitcher on one of the two teams was imbibing in the clubhouse and was not in condition to pitch, hence the game ended.

And that's how home-field advantage is decided in the World Series, not by regular-season excellence. But then, what owner thinks about the guys who spend their money on tickets?

Chip R
03-25-2007, 10:12 PM
Verrrry interesting. Which pitchers did not pitch in the ASG that year?

BuckWoody
03-25-2007, 10:13 PM
It can't be that hard to look up a list of candidates.....

BuckWoody
03-25-2007, 10:18 PM
Here's who did pitch:
American League
Derek Lowe
Roy Halladay
Mark Buehrle
Barry Zito
Eddie Guardado
Kazuhiro Sasaki
Ugueth Urbina
Mariano Rivera
Freddy Garcia

National League
Curt Schilling
Mike Williams
Odalis Perez
Eric Gagne
Trevor Hoffman
Mike Remlinger
Byung-Hyun Kim
Robb Nen
John Smoltz
Vicente Padilla

jmcclain19
03-25-2007, 10:22 PM
Edit - Buckwoody beat me to it

Looking at who was on the roster and who did pitch

http://espn.go.com/mlb/allstar02/s/roster/nl.html

I don't see anyone that sticks out

marcshoe
03-25-2007, 10:22 PM
Unless I misread the list, every pitcher on the active roster got into the game.

Mario-Rijo
03-25-2007, 10:27 PM
That shouldn't be too hard to figure out.



A.L. Pitcher(s)

Derek Lowe
Roy Halladay (3rd)
Mark Buehrle (4th)
Barry Zito (6th)
Eddie Guardado (6th)
Kazuhiro Sasaki (7th)
Ugueth Urbina (8th)
Mariano Rivera (9th)
Freddy Garcia (10th)
-
N.L. Pitcher(s)
Starter
Curt Schilling
Mike Williams (3rd)
Odalis Perez (4th)
Eric Gagne (5th)
Trevor Hoffman (6th)
Mike Remlinger (7th)
Byung-Hyun Kim (7th)
Robb Nen (8th)
John Smoltz (9th)
Vicente Padilla (10th)



However the notes say that all 60 players were used. So one of these guys is the culprit! My guess is it is Freddy Garcia. If you look at the box score it appeared that he wasn't used until he had to be, and he allowed a SB and had a wild pitch in the 11th. That's my best argument, not really convincing but that's what I got.

The Box Score:

http://http://www.baseball-almanac.com/asgbox/2002_all_star_game_play_by_play.shtml

BuckWoody
03-25-2007, 10:28 PM
Edit - Buckwoody beat me to it

Looking at who was on the roster and who did pitch

http://espn.go.com/mlb/allstar02/s/roster/nl.html

I don't see anyone that sticks out

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/asgbox/yr2002as.shtml

That's the link I used and I didn't see anyone it could be either...all the pitchers seem to have been in the game... :confused:

paintmered
03-25-2007, 10:28 PM
At first glance, there were 9 AL pitchers and 10 NL pitchers who actually appeared in the game.

But from also looking at the boxscore, the NL was the home team that year and therefore pitched the top-half of the inning. So it's possible that only the NL was out of pitchers and the AL had one left, which goes against the drunk pitcher theory.

pedro
03-25-2007, 10:31 PM
Unless it was someone who was supposed to pitch longer but couldn't.

Zito or Kim perhaps.

marcshoe
03-25-2007, 10:32 PM
Here are the rosters I looked at. Check and see if you can find an unused, non-injured pitcher. I can't, but I'm getting old and have trifocals.

Baseball Almanac (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/asgbox/yr2002as.shtml)

Proof of my getting old is that I didn't see that this exact link had already been posted. Mine's neater, though. :p:

pedro
03-25-2007, 10:32 PM
But really, that doesn't sound like what Gammons is saying and according to the rosters everyone pitched.

marcshoe
03-25-2007, 10:33 PM
Unless it was someone who was supposed to pitch longer but couldn't.

Zito or Kim perhaps.


That's possible.

Patrick Bateman
03-25-2007, 10:34 PM
Every pitcher was used. I don't understand what Gammons is getting at.

Joseph
03-25-2007, 10:38 PM
If I recall correctly Padilla either didn't want to pitch or didn't want to pitch much. But that's just a 4 year old memory I haven't used in a while.

Swampturkey
03-25-2007, 10:49 PM
I don't think he was on the active roster, but Matt Morris was the only Cardinal representative at the AS game in 2002. But like I said, I don't think he was eligable to play in the game because he was mentally taxed out after Kile's death so elected not to play.

I could be wrong though. I just know we didn't have anyone in the game that year.

RedFanAlways1966
03-25-2007, 11:03 PM
At first glance, there were 9 AL pitchers and 10 NL pitchers who actually appeared in the game.

But from also looking at the boxscore, the NL was the home team that year and therefore pitched the top-half of the inning. So it's possible that only the NL was out of pitchers and the AL had one left, which goes against the drunk pitcher theory.


However the notes say that all 60 players were used. So one of these guys is the culprit! My guess is it is Freddy Garcia. If you look at the box score it appeared that he wasn't used until he had to be, and he allowed a SB and had a wild pitch in the 11th. That's my best argument, not really convincing but that's what I got.


Actually the AL only had 9 pitchers on their roster that year and Garcia was their last guy.

The MLB site says... Garcia, who threw 102 pitches in his last start in a 2-1 Mariners win July 4, pitched two innings Tuesday, allowing a pair of hits on 31 pitches. Padilla finished the game for the National League, allowing only a walk on 25 pitches in two innings of work.

Since it was July 9 , five days since Garcia last pitched, it does not make sense to me that 31 pitches is pushing his limit. Five days would be his normal time to make another start and throw around 100 pitches. However, the PA announcer told everyone that the game would end in a tie if the NL did not score before they started the bottom of the 11th with Garcia still to pitch that inning. Therefore, it is more likely to be Padilla than Garcia IMO.

Calling Barnaby Jones! Are Barnaby Jones or Quincy in the house?

Why would Gammons wait until now to make this statement? If he knew this firsthand, I doubt he'd wait 4-1/2 years to tell this story. It makes me believe that he got the info from someone else. When a story gets passed from one person to another, then it makes me wonder how much validity there is behind it. I don't know, but something doesn't seem right here.

vaticanplum
03-25-2007, 11:15 PM
What is Gammons all of a sudden, Mr. Gossip McGossipants?!

RFS62
03-25-2007, 11:21 PM
Gammons has to know that he can't throw something like this out there without rampant speculation.

Now let's watch as all the pitchers and even position players who were in that game are all interrogated about this.

No way it ends here.

redsupport
03-25-2007, 11:35 PM
The game was in Milwaukee and I took my family there from Calif and was invited to a party thrown by agents before the game and Kim was there but I did not see him imbibing

ramp101
03-25-2007, 11:39 PM
I think Gammons was the drunk one

KronoRed
03-26-2007, 12:03 AM
What is Gammons all of a sudden, Mr. Gossip McGossipants?!

That is the greatest name I've ever heard.

PuffyPig
03-26-2007, 12:07 AM
I don't understand what Gammons is getting at.

You say that like you are surprised.:confused:

Chip R
03-26-2007, 12:09 AM
What is Gammons all of a sudden, Mr. Gossip McGossipants?!


All of a sudden? He's always been like this.

Now, were there any starters who had pitched that Sunday who made the team but weren't scheduled to pitch? Perhaps one of them decided to imbibe figuring there was no way they would be called on.

blumj
03-26-2007, 12:09 AM
What is Gammons all of a sudden, Mr. Gossip McGossipants?!

He always was.

MrCinatit
03-26-2007, 01:02 AM
Even though they are nowhere on the list, I will say it was either David Wells, Whitey Ford or Babe Ruth.

Strikes Out Looking
03-26-2007, 09:04 AM
It was Tony LaRussa.

919191
03-26-2007, 09:43 AM
Maybe Peter has been the one dabbling in the wonderful world of alcohol'

It's OK- I am all about that. Just wonder....

blumj
03-26-2007, 10:26 AM
In all seriousness, I'm not totally convinced Gammons doesn't have some occasional lingering problems from his illness. Just an odd feeling I get from his reactions sometimes.

oneupper
03-26-2007, 10:33 AM
Gammons is probably right. But I have an issue with these "incomplete" tidbits or rumours, where the jounalist doesn't complete with the names. Gammons (or his source) knows who it was.

"Somebody is on steriods", "Somebody is going to be traded", "Somebody was drunk".

They throw that out there and leave everyone else to fill in the blanks.
If you know something like this, but are unwilling to give it up completely, then just shut up.

PuffyPig
03-26-2007, 11:46 AM
"Somebody is on steriods", "Somebody is going to be traded", "Somebody was drunk".



I can confirm that the above statements are, indeed, true.

Joseph
03-26-2007, 12:07 PM
I can confirm that the above statements are, indeed, true.

You need your own website.

Blimpie
03-26-2007, 02:30 PM
I blame Hideki Irabu.

Always Red
03-26-2007, 02:43 PM
I blame Hideki Irabu.
saki-bomb??

Ron Madden
03-29-2007, 03:58 AM
Gammons is probably right. But I have an issue with these "incomplete" tidbits or rumours, where the jounalist doesn't complete with the names. Gammons (or his source) knows who it was.

"Somebody is on steriods", "Somebody is going to be traded", "Somebody was drunk".

They throw that out there and leave everyone else to fill in the blanks.
If you know something like this, but are unwilling to give it up completely, then just shut up.

I'm in complete agreement Oneupper.

Far too often innocent human beings are dragged through the mud of suspicion.

GAC
03-29-2007, 09:19 AM
I'm still trying to figure out what imbibing means? I'm from Ohia! :mooner:

KronoRed
03-29-2007, 12:50 PM
I'm in complete agreement Oneupper.

Far too often innocent human beings are dragged through the mud of suspicion.

Your post sounds suspicious

;)

Ron Madden
03-29-2007, 04:04 PM
Your post sounds suspicious

;)

It's the way I roll. :p:

BoydsOfSummer
03-29-2007, 05:58 PM
I'm pretty sure I was hammered for that game also