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dabvu2498
03-26-2007, 04:07 PM
Associated Press All-Americans
First Team

• Kevin Durant, Texas
• Alando Tucker, Wisconsin
• Acie Law IV, Texas A&M
• Arron Afflalo, UCLA
• Greg Oden, Ohio State

Second Team

• Nick Fazekas, Nevada
• Tyler Hansbrough, UNC
• Chris Lofton, Tennessee
• Jared Dudley, Boston College
• Joakim Noah, Florida

Third Team

• Jeff Green, Georgetown
• Al Horford, Florida
• Aaron Brooks, Oregon
• Al Thornton, Florida State
• Aaron Gray, Pittsburgh


Discuss

Personally, I enjoy how the SEC Coaches poll player of the year does not make either team, but 3 others from the conference do.

Red Leader
03-26-2007, 04:26 PM
I still think Greg Oden is overrated. Not to say he's not a good player, he is, but he's not a "franchise" player in the NBA. He's still young, so he has time to become that guy, but right now, he's not there, IMO. I think his being named to the first team is a gift.

redsfan30
03-26-2007, 04:32 PM
How Greg Oden gets first team and Mike Conley isn't even listed is beyond me.

Red Leader
03-26-2007, 05:04 PM
How Greg Oden gets first team and Mike Conley isn't even listed is beyond me.

I'm glad someone else thought the same way. I'm sure many know me on this board and just think I'm an OSU hater. It's true that I do not like the College of Columbus, but mainly, that's only for football. Not saying that I like the College of Columbus in any other sport, but I don't despise them nearly as much. Having said all of that, I thought I'd open this thread back up to a bunch of OSU fans saying "what are you talking about? Greg Oden is teh GOD!!!!!" Like I said, I don't think Greg Oden is a bad player at all. I do think he's over-hyped and overrated (at least this year he was). He does not deserve to be a first team All-American, IMO.

bucksfan2
03-26-2007, 05:18 PM
Oden is good but he hasn't played to his potential yet. As an OSU grad I am being selfish and want him to stay for another year and think it would do him some good.

I think its a joke that Jeff Green is on the 3rd team. He is one of the best players in the country and his stats probably as good as they could be becaues he buys into the team game and makes everyone around him better.

Sham
03-26-2007, 05:20 PM
How Greg Oden gets first team and Mike Conley isn't even listed is beyond me.


Exactly what I was thinking.

Red Leader
03-26-2007, 05:23 PM
I think Oden needs to work on his offensive game before going pro. He's not an elite scorer yet and he should be there on the college level before he takes the next step.

I will add that it's probably a very difficult task to name a basketball All-American team. I mean, there are only 5 spots for all Div I teams. That's a tough assignment. Oden's the only one listed on the first team that I don't think deserved it. I could see an argument for Hansbrough and Noah for the first team and there are many, many deserving players that aren't even listed.

15fan
03-26-2007, 05:31 PM
Jared Dudley 2nd Team AA.

That doesn't speak well to either the quality of talent in the game, or the quality of folks who are given ballots. The guy's a nice player and all, but I find it hard to buy the argument that he's one of the top 10 players in the college game in 2006-2007.

dabvu2498
03-26-2007, 05:37 PM
Jared Dudley 2nd Team AA.

That doesn't speak well to either the quality of talent in the game, or the quality of folks who are given ballots. The guy's a nice player and all, but I find it hard to buy the argument that he's one of the top 10 players in the college game in 2006-2007.

Agreed. He was the one for sure I would take Derrick Byars (even though I am biased) ahead of.

I think he recieved that in recognition of the fact that BC had a nice year even though they lost those kids to disciplinary action. His stats were pretty good, but made fairly gaudy because he was really the only on on that team that could score the ball.

BuckeyeRed27
03-26-2007, 06:55 PM
I wasn't sure at first if GO should be a 1st team AA either, but then I considered two things.
1) Who would you replace him with? There are certainly other deserving candidates but no one really jumps off the page from the 2nd and 3rd teams as being "snubs" to me.
2) I wanted to see how Oden's numbers compared with other "dominant" big men as freshmen. I just looked at Shaq, Robinson and Ewing and when considering just PPG and RPG Oden looks pretty good. Oden averaged 15.4/9.5 this season. Ewing was 12.7/7.5 his first year, Robinson was 7.6/4 and Shaq was 13.9/12. Now all of those guys had monster sophomore years and if Oden comes back next year I would expect the same. I think this is relevent because people have been saying he's overhyped and overrated, yet his numbers are very much in line with big men that dominated the NBA for over a decade. Now whether or not that warrents him getting a 1st team AA nod this season is still up for debate, but I still think that the hype is warrented.

Cedric
03-26-2007, 06:56 PM
Greg Oden is overrated only in the minds of unrealistic, irrational sports fans.

He's a dominant center and most of that dominating was done with one hand. He along with Mike Conley Jr is the key to the Buckeyes half court offense and he controls the whole other end of the court.

Just take a sneak peak at the Buckeyes scoring margins with and without Oden and come back to me.

Cedric
03-26-2007, 06:58 PM
I wasn't sure at first if GO should be a 1st team AA either, but then I considered two things.
1) Who would you replace him with? There are certainly other deserving candidates but no one really jumps off the page from the 2nd and 3rd teams as being "snubs" to me.
2) I wanted to see how Oden's numbers compared with other "dominant" big men as freshmen. I just looked at Shaq, Robinson and Ewing and when considering just PPG and RPG Oden looks pretty good. Oden averaged 15.4/9.5 this season. Ewing was 12.7/7.5 his first year, Robinson was 7.6/4 and Shaq was 13.9/12. Now all of those guys had monster sophomore years and if Oden comes back next year I would expect the same. I think this is relevent because people have been saying he's overhyped and overrated, yet his numbers are very much in line with big men that dominated the NBA for over a decade. Now whether or not that warrents him getting a 1st team AA nod this season is still up for debate, but I still think that the hype is warrented.

There is nothing Greg Oden could do to live up to the expectations. He is the only true inside presence on a final four team, as a freshman and yet he still get's questioned. Just another case of irrational cynicism that fans have. Hell I hear people questioning Lebron James on the radio already.

It's just not a good time to be a reasonable sports fan anymore. Too many opinions out there all over the airwaves.

Cedric
03-26-2007, 07:00 PM
I'm glad someone else thought the same way. I'm sure many know me on this board and just think I'm an OSU hater. It's true that I do not like the College of Columbus, but mainly, that's only for football. Not saying that I like the College of Columbus in any other sport, but I don't despise them nearly as much. Having said all of that, I thought I'd open this thread back up to a bunch of OSU fans saying "what are you talking about? Greg Oden is teh GOD!!!!!" Like I said, I don't think Greg Oden is a bad player at all. I do think he's over-hyped and overrated (at least this year he was). He does not deserve to be a first team All-American, IMO.


Don't say such irrational things if you don't want people responding to your posts. And your ignorant, immature rants about Ohio State fans don't disguise your jealousy.

You and many others on this site have a bitter hate for Ohio State. That doesn't mean I'm gonna stop talking about how irrational the comments are.

The intimidation tactics don't work on me.

dabvu2498
03-26-2007, 07:01 PM
I wasn't sure at first if GO should be a 1st team AA either, but then I considered two things.
1) Who would you replace him with? There are certainly other deserving candidates but no one really jumps off the page from the 2nd and 3rd teams as being "snubs" to me.
2) I wanted to see how Oden's numbers compared with other "dominant" big men as freshmen. I just looked at Shaq, Robinson and Ewing and when considering just PPG and RPG Oden looks pretty good. Oden averaged 15.4/9.5 this season. Ewing was 12.7/7.5 his first year, Robinson was 7.6/4 and Shaq was 13.9/12. Now all of those guys had monster sophomore years and if Oden comes back next year I would expect the same. I think this is relevent because people have been saying he's overhyped and overrated, yet his numbers are very much in line with big men that dominated the NBA for over a decade. Now whether or not that warrents him getting a 1st team AA nod this season is still up for debate, but I still think that the hype is warrented.


You realize that David Robinson was 6'7 when he was a freshman, right?

BoxingRed
03-26-2007, 08:00 PM
One thing is certain IMO, Jeff Green will have the best pro career of any of these guys. His game and body is already well suited for it. Hard to find a weak point anywhere in terms of ability to excell at the next level, perhaps rebounding. He seems to pick up that aspect of his game when needed as well.
Some might even argue that the Vandy game showed he even has the NBA pseudo-walk down to a tee.

sonny
03-27-2007, 05:54 AM
One thing is certain IMO, Jeff Green will have the best pro career of any of these guys.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

No offense, but that could be the most "Spinal-Tap-ish" thing I have heard in a while.

bucksfan
03-27-2007, 10:36 AM
Oden has been overhyped, but he could literally have been the 2nd coming and still I'd say he was overhyped. I love Ohio State basketball, more than any other sport, but I quit listening to all the talk about them around November. I was not tired of the players however. They have come in and proven to be very good (forgetting about what anyone said they were supposed to be like), and it has been a joy watching them develop and grow.

Greg Oden is one of the guys who did just that, came in and played very very well. He has tons of room to grow (esp offensively)as well, which coupled with the overflowing praise by the media, can make his performance underwhelming to some. However, I think he has been a very very good player for the Buckeyes. I don't think his 1st team nomination was a "gift" by any stretch. Just because he has room for improvement and is not "all that and a bag of chips" like the media tried to portray him out of HS does not make him unworthy of praise /awards for how he has played.

Danny Serafini
03-27-2007, 10:58 AM
For those who don't believe Oden belongs on the first team, what center would you take over him?

dabvu2498
03-27-2007, 11:20 AM
For those who don't believe Oden belongs on the first team, what center would you take over him?

Tyler Hansborough

gonelong
03-27-2007, 11:23 AM
For those who don't believe Oden belongs on the first team, what center would you take over him?

I don't think there are any other centers with the defensive prescense that Oden brings.

I think you could argue taking Hansborough over him, but it'd depend on the kind of team I had.


OSU has enough guys to score that Oden doesn't have to score 20 a game for them to win. I don't think he'd have a problem scoring 20 if they is the way they wanted to deploy him.

GL

Red Leader
03-27-2007, 11:41 AM
Tyler Hansborough

My pick as well.

max venable
03-27-2007, 11:44 AM
Everybody who says Oden hasn't lived up to the hype seems to forget that he's still not 100% and that basically he's been playing left-handed all season long. I hope he stays one more year so we can all see what he could do when he's completely healthy.

MWM
03-27-2007, 11:52 AM
I read the article on ESPN yesterday and couldn't believe Oden was on the All-American team. Not only should he not have been on the first team, he shouldn't even have been on the second team. He'll be a great player, but he needs to get better. Right now, he's a defense only player. He's actually a liability on offense.

How they put him on there instead of Noah or Hansbrough is beyond me. And yes, Connely deserved it more than he did. Connely should have been a second teamer or something. That kid is the real deal. Oden might be the #1 pick and all, but he needs to stay another year. His offensive game will never develop once he's in the NBA. He seems to have a good head on his shoulder, but it would be awfully tough to pass up being the #1 pick. But I think he should do it.

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
03-27-2007, 11:52 AM
Tyler Hansborough
I could see that if numbers were the only thing that counted. If you watch the way Oden changes the face of the game when he is in there I have to dissagree.

Roy Tucker
03-27-2007, 11:56 AM
Yeah, I'm an OSU hoops fan, but I thought there were other players that had better seasons, better stats, and frankly, accomplished more and meant more to their team than Oden did to the Buckeyes. Heck, I'd probably vote him #3 on his team for MVP behind Conley and Lewis.

I think Oden has progressed well in his freshman year and has persevered to overcome his injury. He is a very good player on his way to possibly being a great player.

I wouldn't go as far as saying his 1st Team A-A is a gift, but some percentage of it is based on his potential rather than what he actually accomplished.

dabvu2498
03-27-2007, 12:07 PM
I wouldn't go as far as saying his 1st Team A-A is a gift, but some percentage of it is based on his potential rather than what he actually accomplished.

Perfect summation.

Red Leader
03-27-2007, 12:19 PM
I wouldn't go as far as saying his 1st Team A-A is a gift, but some percentage of it is based on his potential rather than what he actually accomplished.

That's probably a better way of saying it. It was a little harsh saying it was a "gift."

I also think it's wrong to base any of this voting on potential. It should be based solely on performance for this year, and if you're going to vote on stricly that, I think Hansbrough deserved the spot over Oden.

I also think Michael Conley got jobbed. He is an excellent player and ran that team to near perfection this year.

TeamSelig
03-27-2007, 12:34 PM
Didn't he average like 3 blocks a game too?

BRM
03-27-2007, 12:38 PM
Didn't he average like 3 blocks a game too?

3.5 per game according to ESPN.

dabvu2498
03-27-2007, 12:58 PM
Interesting NBA mock draft projections: http://www.nbadraft.net/

Of course, the season's not over and the ping-pong ball drop hasn't occurred, so...

TeamSelig
03-27-2007, 01:06 PM
Sleeper pick: #15 to the Nets, Marco Belinelli

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r2WueJDD7c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sUNe74aLNE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbY6klh0edQ


I'd love for my Pacers to get him somehow...

Puffy
03-27-2007, 01:17 PM
Interesting NBA mock draft projections: http://www.nbadraft.net/

Of course, the season's not over and the ping-pong ball drop hasn't occurred, so...

They don't even have Hansbrough being drafted. Yet they assume Hibbert, Green, Durant, Brandon Wright are all coming out.

Interesting. And if all the Heels lose is Wright and Terry then I'll be a happy camper

westofyou
03-27-2007, 01:29 PM
Does one have to be "Irrational" to not like OSU now?

I must have missed the telegram.

TeamSelig
03-27-2007, 01:29 PM
I think Hans will declare. This years draft is pretty stacked. This has DJ White of Indiana going pro and selected early in the 2nd but I don't think he will. It also has Phoenix selecting Yi Jianilian and Aaron Gray. They need a center, but I doubt they go with two. If I was Pete Rose, I'd bet that they will grab Joakim Noah with their first pick.

Puffy
03-27-2007, 01:34 PM
I think Hans will declare. This years draft is pretty stacked. This has DJ White of Indiana going pro and selected early in the 2nd but I don't think he will. It also has Phoenix selecting Yi Jianilian and Aaron Gray. They need a center, but I doubt they go with two. If I was Pete Rose, I'd bet that they will grab Joakim Noah with their first pick.

I'm pretty worried about Hansbrough going. After that 33 point game I thought that was it.

The two things Heels fans need to hold on to are (1) his father is real close to him and I don't think they need the money and (2) Hansbrough still has lots of his game which need to be improved, like an outside jumper and defense. Plus he won't be better than a mid-first round pick, so maybe, hopefully, he stays to improve his stock

Puffy
03-27-2007, 01:36 PM
Don't say such irrational things if you don't want people responding to your posts. And your ignorant, immature rants about Ohio State fans don't disguise your jealousy.

You and many others on this site have a bitter hate for Ohio State. That doesn't mean I'm gonna stop talking about how irrational the comments are.

The intimidation tactics don't work on me.

So, Red Leader's ignorant, immature posts are brought on by jealousy.

What are your ignorant, immature posts brought on by?

15fan
03-27-2007, 01:37 PM
Does one have to be "Irrational" to not like OSU now?

I must have missed the telegram.

You Michigan folks are just jealous. ;)

MWM
03-27-2007, 01:38 PM
Even without Hanbrough, the Tar Heels will be loaded next year. If he does come back, they'll be darn near as unbeatable as any team we've seen in a long time. They are loaded with talent.

15fan
03-27-2007, 01:38 PM
(2) Hansbrough still has lots of his game which need to be improved, like an outside jumper and defense.

They actually play defense in the NBA?

Puffy
03-27-2007, 01:40 PM
Even without Hanbrough, the Tar Heels will be loaded next year. If he does come back, they'll be darn near as unbeatable as any team we've seen in a long time. They are loaded with talent.

Not really sure.

If they lose Hansbrough, coupled with losing Wright (who I believe is as good as out the door), Terry and Miller thats a huge chunk to lose. They be good, but top 15 good, not top 5 good. And that assumes that Lawson doesn't bolt.

Puffy
03-27-2007, 01:41 PM
They actually play defense in the NBA?

They do down in the low post. Forget about the perimeter, but where TH would be - yes, they actually do.

Sometimes.

gonelong
03-27-2007, 01:45 PM
Does one have to be "Irrational" to not like OSU now?

It sure seems to help. :)


I must have missed the telegram.

Here you go! :laugh:

GL

http://www.redszone.com/forums/skins/RedsZone/attach/jpg.gif

Red Leader
03-27-2007, 01:46 PM
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

WMR
03-27-2007, 02:11 PM
GL that's great. :laugh:

Slyder
03-27-2007, 02:23 PM
I think Oden needs to work on his offensive game before going pro. He's not an elite scorer yet and he should be there on the college level before he takes the next step..

Ben Wallace anyone? I would be SHOCKED if he and Durant arent in the draft this year.

Sham
03-27-2007, 04:12 PM
I think Oden will be very good, but not drafting Durant #1 would be a huge gaffe IMO.

And I know all that about big men being more valuable.

Durant is the next Dr. J.

bucksfan
03-27-2007, 04:52 PM
Yeah, I certainly would not have complained had Hansbrough made 1st team over Oden. I like how he plays.

IMO this conversation has nothing to do with "liking" OSU or not, it's about Oden. When people start making it about the school, that's when the harder feelings arise...

TeamSelig
03-27-2007, 07:58 PM
I would never pick Durant over Oden, ever. Thats just me though.

smith288
03-27-2007, 10:40 PM
Durant is a once every 2-3 yrs type of player. Oden is a once every 15-20 yrs type. You dont pass that up.

Cedric
03-27-2007, 10:51 PM
Does one have to be "Irrational" to not like OSU now?

I must have missed the telegram.

You must have missed the part where Red Leader insinuated that anyone that disagreed with his point was just a homer.

It's not new.

If he's got a point to make then he should be able to defend it. By his "TEH GOD" comments he is already trying to define the counter to his arguement.

Razor Shines
03-27-2007, 11:56 PM
Durant is a once every 2-3 yrs type of player. Oden is a once every 15-20 yrs type. You dont pass that up.

Wow. Who are the players that come out every 2-3 years that are like Durrant? I can think of McGrady, except McGrady's shorter than Durrant, but their games are very similar. I'm sorry Oden does not have an NBA ready offensive game. And I know he's been injured but I've watched him play through high school and he didn't have one then either, he can't shoot or put the ball on the floor. Hibbard will be a good test for Oden to see how far his offensive game has come.

Fil3232
03-28-2007, 02:03 AM
Couple of opinions:

Jeff Green's talent and ability have been well stated on here. One thing I would like to add is that you have to take into account that Green plays in one of the most deliberate offenses in the country. (I believe bottom 10 in possessions per game). People across the country wouldn't question his skill if you stuck him in the UNC offense.

Kevin Durant, to me, is a more advanced, taller Tracy McGrady at comparable ages. That is, it took Tracy a couple of years to really develop his offensive game. It might take Durant one year. He's my #1 pick. And he is NOT an every 2-3 year player.

Based on this year, Oden shouldn't be a first teamer. I would have Hansbrough on my first team. To his credit Oden was not fully healthy this year (scary) but like someone mentioned, the teams aren't made on potential.

Cedric
03-28-2007, 08:51 PM
Scout's Take from CNNSI: "I know we're talking about 'moving up,' and Oden can't really go much higher, but here's what's been reinforced: All the talk about taking [Kevin] Durant at No. 1 is ridiculous. If it was possible for Oden to have helped himself in that debate, he did. That blocked shot at the end of the Tennessee game -- that's why he's the No. 1 pick. He effortlessly rotated over and stuffed a potential game-winning shot, and there are about three guys on the planet who can do what he does defensively. I thought Joey Dorsey [of Memphis] would put up more of a fight in the Elite Eight, but Oden destroyed the guy. When you're framing this Durant-versus-Oden debate, it's not like you're talking about Michael Jordan versus Hakeem Olajuwon. You're talking about a higher-level Tracy McGrady versus Hakeem. And I know who wins that argument. Every single time. It's crazy that there even is an argument."



That's pretty much the consensus of anyone that does that for a living. Oden will go number one. He's a dominant player in college right now. Easy first team All America choice.

Puffy
03-28-2007, 09:00 PM
Scout's Take from CNNSI: "I know we're talking about 'moving up,' and Oden can't really go much higher, but here's what's been reinforced: All the talk about taking [Kevin] Durant at No. 1 is ridiculous. If it was possible for Oden to have helped himself in that debate, he did. That blocked shot at the end of the Tennessee game -- that's why he's the No. 1 pick. He effortlessly rotated over and stuffed a potential game-winning shot, and there are about three guys on the planet who can do what he does defensively. I thought Joey Dorsey [of Memphis] would put up more of a fight in the Elite Eight, but Oden destroyed the guy. When you're framing this Durant-versus-Oden debate, it's not like you're talking about Michael Jordan versus Hakeem Olajuwon. You're talking about a higher-level Tracy McGrady versus Hakeem. And I know who wins that argument. Every single time. It's crazy that there even is an argument."



That's pretty much the consensus of anyone that does that for a living. Oden will go number one. He's a dominant player in college right now. Easy first team All America choice.

Yeah, "easy" first teamer :rolleyes:

You do realize he missed the first month of the season. And the first month and a half he played he was playing one handed? And you do realize that first team all-american has nothing to do with pro potential? And that the numbers Fazekis and hansbrough had this year dwarfed Oden's numbers?

Yeah, "easy" first teamer.

Oden is a once in every 15 years type big guy. I love the kid. But easy first teamer when he missed so much time and then played at 75 percent and didn't put up numbers like others. No freakin way - this is, at the very least, debateable and nothing thats debateable is "easy"

And I am not saying he isn't a first teamer - just thats its not an "easy" call

Cedric
03-28-2007, 09:05 PM
Oden is easily debated against because the average fan doesn't realize how dominant he is on defense.
I'll take 16 pts/9 rb's with his defense and put him on my first team. Anytime.

Oden changes the whole game.

Hansborough on defense? He's a good flopper is about the best I can say. He changes nothing the other team does.

And is 18 pts/7.9 rb's really dwarfing Oden and his 15.5/9.5?

I don't think so. Add in defense and the debate is pretty much over.

bucksfan
03-28-2007, 11:25 PM
I agree that AA choices (just like Heisman trophies, etc) are not and should not be based on pro potential. But having seen Oden and Fazekis play, Oden is easily chosen over him IMO. In basketball much moreso than in baseball you can only take the # comparison so far. Oden's output in the scoring column would easily be more had he been on a team that required it day-in day-out. But I think the combination of his injury and relatively gradula unveiling of his skills because of the injury do make it something of a debatable topic. However, he would without a shadow of a doubt be on my 1st team , but that's just my opinion. I am a Buckeye alum, Buckeye state resident, a Buckeye fan, etc and got to see him every game and realize exactly what he can do, so I may have some bias... But I'd like to think my bball talent perception is not clouded too much.

Sham
03-31-2007, 01:55 PM
Durant is a once every 2-3 yrs type of player. Oden is a once every 15-20 yrs type. You dont pass that up.


Freshmen that win the POY come along every 2-3 years?

crash54
03-31-2007, 02:30 PM
Freshmen that win the POY come along every 2-3 years?

It's not like he had a choice in becoming a freshman. I do think however that he is more like a every 5-10 year player. 2-3 is crazy.

Spring~Fields
04-01-2007, 12:35 AM
Címon Buckeye fans, you saw the same games that the rest of us did during the tournament, and you saw that Oden has a lot of growing and developing to do as a player at the higher levels of competition. A lot of Ohio States best play during the tournament has come after Oden was in trouble and with Oden on the bench. I agree with MWM and Tucker.

First team I donít get it.

klw
04-02-2007, 05:54 PM
I was surprised to see the Stephen Curry didn't even get honorable mention.

Puffy
04-02-2007, 06:27 PM
I was surprised to see the Stephen Curry didn't even get honorable mention.

He's just a frosh - I'm sure there'll be plenty of honorable mentions in his future

:thumbup: