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redsupport
03-28-2007, 04:23 PM
even pitching against his former team, santos continues his masterful brilliance, but all people want to do is talk about burton and coutilagus

BRM
03-28-2007, 04:32 PM
What are the odds Santos actually makes the squad?

CTA513
03-28-2007, 04:35 PM
even pitching against his former team, santos continues his masterful brilliance, but all people want to do is talk about burton and coutilagus


:party:

rotnoid
03-28-2007, 04:40 PM
Anybody else remember Josias Manzanillo? I'm just saying.

Dracodave
03-28-2007, 04:40 PM
What are the odds Santos actually makes the squad?

Since he's been pitching against single a and double a kids, I don't put much stock into his era. He's 30. He's sucked in the majors for years, and he couldn't keep a era under 4.50 for most of his career (excluding his rookie season).

I'd say his triple a filler/back up at best.

I wouldn't take Santos north with me over Burton or Coutlangus.

markymark69
03-28-2007, 04:47 PM
Anybody else remember Josias Manzanillo? I'm just saying.

That was the first name that I thought of also. Manzanillo wasn't lights out though like Santos has been. It would be tough to leave him off the roster, but I think he's a victim of a numbers crunch. I also think the organization will do whatever is necessary to keep Burton on the roster.

I hope that Santos will accept an assignment to Louisville. It would nice to have another arm like his just a phone call away.

Dracodave
03-28-2007, 05:23 PM
That was the first name that I thought of also. Manzanillo wasn't lights out though like Santos has been. It would be tough to leave him off the roster, but I think he's a victim of a numbers crunch. I also think the organization will do whatever is necessary to keep Burton on the roster.

I hope that Santos will accept an assignment to Louisville. It would nice to have another arm like his just a phone call away.

He has to accept an assignment to Louisville as he was signed to a minor league deal with invite to spring training.


Btw, He's lights out against single a and double a players. I wouldn't really call him the next big thing. He sucks big time in real games.


Why are people so big on him?

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs/446_P_season_full_0_20061001.png

His era has never been equal to or less than league average. I hate spring training stats..

This guy has posted era's of...

3.30 (76.3 innings in 2001)
10.38 (26 innings in 2002)
7.01 (25 innings in 2003)
4.97 (154 innings 2004)
4.57 (141.7 innings in 2005)
5.70 (115.3 innings in 2006)

Why the love for that? He's more or less another Milton type pitcher who can sucessfully get single a and double a batters out. His comparables are Paul Wilson, Jesus Sanchez, Dick Pole (ironic don't ya think?), and Tim Redding.

All of the above suck.

Lets take a closer look...

As a starter he's giving up

18 homeruns in 2004
20 homeruns in 2005
16 homeruns in 2006

He's going to give up the bombs big time in GABP.

Walk to strike outs.
2004 57 115
2005 60 89
2006 42 81

One decent year where he had way more strike outs than walks. His lowest whip as a starter is 1.468, his highest last year being 1.665.

I don't believe this guy has magically put it all together at all.

BRM
03-28-2007, 05:26 PM
Why are people so big on him?

I don't think very many people are.

Dracodave
03-28-2007, 05:28 PM
I don't think very many people are.

I hope not. If so, I'll keep writting posts about how bad he sucks lol.

Someone's gotta say it..might as well be me. :thumbup:

BRM
03-28-2007, 05:32 PM
Looking at his numbers the last three years, would he be any worse than Milton?

Dracodave
03-28-2007, 05:35 PM
Looking at his numbers the last three years, would he be any worse than Milton?

I'd say he'd be dead equal to, if not slightly (he gets hot for a few games) better. I wouldn't expect dramatic results, however I also wouldnt expect that era to tank past 6 like I do with Milton.

thatcoolguy_22
03-28-2007, 05:55 PM
Why the love for that? He's more or less another Milton type pitcher who can sucessfully get single a and double a batters out. His comparables are Paul Wilson, Jesus Sanchez, Dick Pole (ironic don't ya think?), and Tim Redding.

All of the above suck.

.

except Milton is giving up on average 5 HR a game against single A ball players :bang:

Dracodave
03-28-2007, 05:58 PM
Thats been my point. Santos is the type of number 5, who you can replace later for better or replace your current crappy pitcher with now. He may stay way to just above league average.

tripleaaaron
03-28-2007, 06:08 PM
I'd say he'd be dead equal to, if not slightly (he gets hot for a few games) better. I wouldn't expect dramatic results, however I also wouldnt expect that era to tank past 6 like I do with Milton.

I agree, so now is the time to see if any other club is possibly buying into Santos (as well as Milton, but that is an obvious statement.)
I hope to never see Santos near this rotation, unless somehow he is dominant at AAA for a sustained period of time and we are in desp. need.

BRM
03-28-2007, 06:19 PM
I agree, so now is the time to see if any other club is possibly buying into Santos.

I can get behind that idea. It can't hurt to see if any team has fallen in love with his "lights out" spring.

jojo
03-28-2007, 07:28 PM
The secret behind Santos's success can be found here (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1273027&postcount=6)....

Dracodave
03-28-2007, 07:36 PM
The secret behind Santos's success can be found here (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1273027&postcount=6)....

A very lucky babip, thats about it too.

Patrick Bateman
03-28-2007, 07:38 PM
A very lucky babip, thats about it too.

That and great control. Two things that wont continue.

redsupport
03-28-2007, 08:37 PM
oh I get it, lets sign a pitcher, watch him give up no earned runs and then disparage him

Dracodave
03-28-2007, 08:39 PM
oh I get it, lets sign a pitcher, watch him give up no earned runs and then disparage him


When said pitchers periphs are suck but he's getting a ton of help by pitching to single a/double a/triple a batters and decent defense.

I'd say so.

jojo
03-28-2007, 09:03 PM
oh I get it, lets sign a pitcher, watch him give up no earned runs and then disparage him

I missed the faq..... whats the required time to wait before we can discuss him rationally and still be a fan? :fineprint

:D

UGADaddy
03-28-2007, 09:11 PM
To say he sucks might be a stretch. True, he's gotten a stat boost from playing minor leaguers, but just ask Milton, they're not always a walk in the park. I like the idea of trading Santos. With the stats hes rung up this spring, I'd think somebody is desperate enough in regards to their bullpen to take a chance on him. If not, I think he's right on the line with Burton for the final spot in the pen.

Final note. Stat line from today's game:
Cincinnati IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Santos, V (W, 2-0) 2.0 1 0 0 2 2 0 0.00
Burton (S, 2) 1.0 2 1 1 0 2 0 4.82

Santos actually got in with some of the big leaguers still in the lineup. Regardless of the valid variables you guys are throwing out there, he's having a heck of a spring.

Dracodave
03-28-2007, 09:18 PM
Burton has a excellent slider/cutter that tops out at 93. He also has some pretty hefty movement. I would pick over Santos ten out of ten times. Burton has upside that Santos clearing lacks.

Santos is what he is. He's a scrub number 5/middle reliever at best. He's not a terrible pitching in the sense that I'd pick him under Milton, but hes not that great either.

Milton got owned by the Single A Pirates, but truely..what player hasn't taken milton deep yet? Its getting old with him. I expect him to give up five homeruns a game at this point. Milton flat out is the worst pitcher on our staff.

To put Burton in Santos' caterogy is just plain wrong though.

LINEDRIVER
03-28-2007, 09:59 PM
Santos has pitched very well this spring + Santos has spent much time working with Mario Soto = Is it possible that something has clicked in?