PDA

View Full Version : The Nationals are really awful



GoReds
04-04-2007, 02:49 PM
Already down 5-0 vs. the Marlins in the third. Florida looks like they'll easily sweep the Nationals.

Apparently, the Nationals #3 starter is Matt Chico.

When your #3 starter is making is ML debut, you know it's going to be a loooooooong season.

BRM
04-04-2007, 02:52 PM
Cody Ross hit a two run homer for the Marlins in the 2nd. One of three hit by Florida. Cabrera and Jacobs have also went yard off Matt Chico.

Who are the #4 and #5 starters for the Nats?

NJReds
04-04-2007, 02:56 PM
Cody Ross hit a two run homer for the Marlins in the 2nd.

The Marlins as a team are probably hitting .400 against this pathetic bunch of pitchers. I'm not sure if Cabrera's made an out yet this year.

BRM
04-04-2007, 02:58 PM
The Marlins as a team are probably hitting .400 against this pathetic bunch of pitchers. I'm not sure if Cabrera's made an out yet this year.

Cabrera is 2-2 raising his average to .778. :laugh:

Cedric
04-04-2007, 02:59 PM
I wouldn't let Jim Bowden construct my softball league team.

Red Leader
04-04-2007, 03:04 PM
Obviously, it was brilliant for them not to trade Soriano at the deadline last year.

That decision alone probably set them back 3-5 years.

HumnHilghtFreel
04-04-2007, 03:11 PM
As I watch this game, I found myself thinking "wow, the marlins are looking really good this year."

Then I caught myself when I realized that they were playing the Nats. When they showed the starting lineup I was amazed at just how bad they really are.

15fan
04-04-2007, 03:13 PM
JimBo is throwing the season so that the Nats can finish last & draft Greg Oden.

BRM
04-04-2007, 03:14 PM
I wouldn't let Jim Bowden construct my softball league team.

I don't know. Bowden can put together an offense. Or at least he used to be able to.

Heath
04-04-2007, 03:14 PM
Who are the #4 and #5 starters for the Nats?

Me and You. Didn't you get the memo?

BRM
04-04-2007, 03:15 PM
Me and You. Didn't you get the memo?

Awesome. My changeup has been off the hook this past winter. Some would call it a slow fastball but I call it a changeup.

Matt700wlw
04-04-2007, 03:19 PM
Obviously, it was brilliant for them not to trade Soriano at the deadline last year.

That decision alone probably set them back 3-5 years.


Bowden can change teams all he wants, his incompetence is still evident

cumberlandreds
04-04-2007, 03:25 PM
I was about to post this same thing. They are horrible and probably in historic proportions too. Already given up 24 runs in 2 1/2 games. They really could break the 120 loss mark and easily at that.

westofyou
04-04-2007, 03:26 PM
Maybe it's the water?


Year Team G W L T RS RA PL
1904 WAS A 157 38 113 6 437 743 8
1907 WAS A 154 49 102 3 506 693 8
1909 WAS A 156 42 110 4 380 656 8
1949 WAS A 154 50 104 0 584 868 8
1955 WAS A 154 53 101 0 598 789 8
1961 WAS A 161 61 100 0 618 776 10
1962 WAS A 162 60 101 1 599 716 10
1963 WAS A 162 56 106 0 578 812 10
1964 WAS A 162 62 100 0 578 733 9

NJReds
04-04-2007, 03:38 PM
Who are the #4 and #5 starters for the Nats?

Jason Bergmann and Jerome Williams

GoReds
04-04-2007, 03:52 PM
Are we sure we couldn't talk Bowden into taking Milton and call the whole Majewski-gate a wash?

Puffy
04-04-2007, 04:01 PM
Obviously, it was brilliant for them not to trade Soriano at the deadline last year.

That decision alone probably set them back 3-5 years.

But if they weren't getting offered fair market value how would it have helped them to trade him?

Don't they now receive a draft pick after the first round for Soriano? And if so, isn't that potentially more valuable than receiving 30 cents on the dollar?

And for all those Bowden bashers that are sure to come out of the closet and bask in this glory, the nationals payroll is down 41% from last year and is at 37 million. Or almost half of what the Reds payroll is currently (depending on how you count Junior's salary). Not many ways to improve a team when your payroll is cut in half.

jmcclain19
04-04-2007, 04:03 PM
Me and You. Didn't you get the memo?

You might do pretty well. Most MLB hitters haven't seen 60mph heat since little league.

Sea Ray
04-04-2007, 04:07 PM
But if they weren't getting offered fair market value how would it have helped them to trade him?

Don't they now receive a draft pick after the first round for Soriano? And if so, isn't that potentially more valuable than receiving 30 cents on the dollar?

And for all those Bowden bashers that are sure to come out of the closet and bask in this glory, the nationals payroll is down 41% from last year and is at 37 million. Or almost half of what the Reds payroll is currently (depending on how you count Junior's salary). Not many ways to improve a team when your payroll is cut in half.


I don't know. What are the percentages of a first rd pick making it to the majors? In Jim Bowden's years with the Reds I think he had two (Kearns, Wagner). I wouldn't get excited about a post 1st rd pick from Bowden

pedro
04-04-2007, 04:07 PM
I think Kasten is driving the bus on the "burn it down" plan and that he just didn't replace Bowden b/c he knew they were going to suck and he'd be able to easily replace him at the end of the year (which I believe they will do with an in-house candidate).

BRM
04-04-2007, 04:08 PM
The Nats have battled back. It's now 6-4 after a Ryan Church three run homer.

REDREAD
04-04-2007, 04:16 PM
But if they weren't getting offered fair market value how would it have helped them to trade him?

Don't they now receive a draft pick after the first round for Soriano? And if so, isn't that potentially more valuable than receiving 30 cents on the dollar?

And for all those Bowden bashers that are sure to come out of the closet and bask in this glory, the nationals payroll is down 41% from last year and is at 37 million. Or almost half of what the Reds payroll is currently (depending on how you count Junior's salary). Not many ways to improve a team when your payroll is cut in half.


Yes, you bring up a great point on Soriano.

Another thing people fail to consider is that Bowden's hard line approach on Soriano might've helped him get more for Vidro and Hernandez (both good trades). Bowden has a reputation of a hard bargainer. In order to keep that reputation, sometimes he has to just "eat" a player and let him walk as a FA.

Bowden did something similiar in 98 (?). Instead of trading Mercker and Mike Morgan for the best he could get, he just let them walk. Morgan and Mercker were pitchers that had some value on the market, but it makes little sense to just give them away.

Teams like Pittsburg get the reputation that you can simply wait them out on lowball offers and they will eventually take the best deal on the table.
Another example is the 2003 firesale.. It was clear the Reds would take cash/lowball offers to dump salary. It hurt us later when trying to deal Sully, etc.

I will say this again. People can laugh at Washington this year, but if their owner is willing to spend money at an average level when their new park opens, Washington will make the playoffs before Cincy will. They are building the farm the right way, as opposed to the Reds. They are doing what many hoped Wayne would do.. Dump the deadwood vets, identify the keepers, beef up scouting, build a monster farm system. And yes, Bowden doesn't get all the credit if it works.

Of course, if the owners decide to perpetually keep payroll at 40 million, then Washington is screwed.

BRM
04-04-2007, 04:16 PM
Ryan Wagner has pitched two innings of scoreless relief today.

REDREAD
04-04-2007, 04:21 PM
I don't know. What are the percentages of a first rd pick making it to the majors? In Jim Bowden's years with the Reds I think he had two (Kearns, Wagner). I wouldn't get excited about a post 1st rd pick from Bowden

He did well with Zimmerman. I don't recall what his other (if any) 1st round picks with Washington were.

pedro
04-04-2007, 04:23 PM
I will say this again. People can laugh at Washington this year, but if their owner is willing to spend money at an average level when their new park opens, Washington will make the playoffs before Cincy will. They are building the farm the right way, as opposed to the Reds. They are doing what many hoped Wayne would do.. Dump the deadwood vets, identify the keepers, beef up scouting, build a monster farm system. And yes, Bowden doesn't get all the credit if it works.



I want no part of the Reds doing what the nationals are.

I doubt they make the payoffs in the next 5 years. The Reds are in way better shaped than the Nationals.

REDREAD
04-04-2007, 04:25 PM
I think Kasten is driving the bus on the "burn it down" plan and that he just didn't replace Bowden b/c he knew they were going to suck and he'd be able to easily replace him at the end of the year (which I believe they will do with an in-house candidate).


Bowden's contract expired at the end of the 2006 season.

http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060309&content_id=1341895&vkey=news_was&fext=.jsp&c_id=was

If Kasten wasn't happy with him, he wouldn't have brought him back for 2007.

Of course, Bowden still might get fired at the end of the year, but Kasten liked him enough to bring him back this year. Otherwise Kasten's pick would be in the GM desk right now.

REDREAD
04-04-2007, 04:30 PM
I want no part of the Reds doing what the nationals are.

I doubt they make the payoffs in the next 5 years. The Reds are in way better shaped than the Nationals.

You want no part in paying above average salaries to scouts to attract the best and the brightest?

You want no part in spending big money in Latin America to sign the best prospects?

You don't want to dump aging, marginal vets like Hernandez and Vidro (Think Milton and Lohse)?

You want no part in making a big push to discover late round talent in the draft and pay for it? (Their stated strategy, but we have to wait and see if they put their money where their mouth is).

Well, then you're rooting for the right team then. Enjoy watching Stanton, Conine, Cormier, and other retread vets try to perpetually crack 500 every year.

Look beyond your hate of Bowden. Look at what the Nationals are doing. I'm not going to nitpick if it's Bowden, Kasten, Boone or whoever. But the franchise is doing the right thing longterm.

I acknowledge that it might all be a Lindner-like snow job, but if they are sincere (and they seem to be by signing all these high profile scouts), they will be a force to reckon with.

pedro
04-04-2007, 04:30 PM
Bowden's contract expired at the end of the 2006 season.

http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060309&content_id=1341895&vkey=news_was&fext=.jsp&c_id=was

If Kasten wasn't happy with him, he wouldn't have brought him back for 2007.

Of course, Bowden still might get fired at the end of the year, but Kasten liked him enough to bring him back this year. Otherwise Kasten's pick would be in the GM desk right now.

Not if he was setting up Jim to take the blame in a year that Kasten knew they were taking a pass on.

pedro
04-04-2007, 04:31 PM
You want no part in paying above average salaries to scouts to attract the best and the brightest?

You want no part in spending big money in Latin America to sign the best prospects?

You don't want to dump aging, marginal vets like Hernandez and Vidro (Think Milton and Lohse)?

You want no part in making a big push to discover late round talent in the draft and pay for it? (Their stated strategy, but we have to wait and see if they put their money where their mouth is).

Well, then you're rooting for the right team then. Enjoy watching Stanton, Conine, Cormier, and other retread vets try to perpetually crack 500 every year.

Look beyond your hate of Bowden. Look at what the Nationals are doing. I'm not going to nitpick if it's Bowden, Kasten, Boone or whoever. But the franchise is doing the right thing longterm.

I acknowledge that it might all be a Lindner-like snow job, but if they are sincere (and they seem to be by signing all these high profile scouts), they will be a force to reckon with.

I want no part of watching the Reds lose 120 games ever. Sorry. It has nothing to do with Bowden.

BRM
04-04-2007, 04:35 PM
I want no part of watching the Reds lose 120 games ever. Sorry. It has nothing to do with Bowden.

Yeah, a 120 loss season would be painful to watch.

westofyou
04-04-2007, 04:35 PM
Even Ray Knight is in the Nationals organization. (TV Announcer)

Soon Deion will be teaching base running.

Mainspark
04-04-2007, 04:36 PM
Those predicting a bad season for the Nationals might reconsider after today's transaction.

BASEBALL
National League
WASHINGTON NATIONALS—Purchased the contract of INF D’Angelo Jimenez from Columbus (IL).

pedro
04-04-2007, 04:37 PM
Those predicting a bad season for the Nationals might reconsider after today's transaction.

BASEBALL
National League
WASHINGTON NATIONALS—Purchased the contract of INF D’Angelo Jimenez from Columbus (IL).

Sounds like a great plan to me.

Strikes Out Looking
04-04-2007, 04:39 PM
When Leatherpants was renewed last year by new ownership, the term of the contract was never announced. Rumor has it that he has an at will contract -- not even for the entire year.

While the Nats are doing some positive things, it will take time to show. In the meantime they will lose a ton of games this year and will be very painful to watch--something I hope the Reds never do.

Razor Shines
04-04-2007, 04:42 PM
Those predicting a bad season for the Nationals might reconsider after today's transaction.

BASEBALL
National League
WASHINGTON NATIONALS—Purchased the contract of INF D’Angelo Jimenez from Columbus (IL).

Well so much for "dumping the deadwood".

westofyou
04-04-2007, 04:43 PM
The Marlins are giving the game back to the Nats.

It's like the Gong Show

HumnHilghtFreel
04-04-2007, 04:46 PM
6-6 game, Nats have a chance at this one

westofyou
04-04-2007, 04:46 PM
Gonggggggggggggggggg

BRM
04-04-2007, 04:48 PM
Nats score 3 in the bottom of the 9th to win it. The win streak begins!!

HumnHilghtFreel
04-04-2007, 04:49 PM
Da Meat Hook comes through in the clutch

NJReds
04-04-2007, 04:53 PM
Jorge Julio. Simply amazing.

I can't believe that Omar Minaya was able to land El Duque for JJ.

Sea Ray
04-04-2007, 05:01 PM
Winning slugfests is exciting baseball but it's not a formula for pennant winning baseball.

pedro
04-04-2007, 05:03 PM
Winning slugfests is exciting baseball but it's not a formula for pennant winning baseball.

no it's not.

meanwhile the tigers / bj's game is 10-7.

registerthis
04-04-2007, 05:07 PM
no it's not.

meanwhile the tigers / bj's game is 10-7.

Only a field goal down. How much time is left? I think the Argonauts can pull this out.

HumnHilghtFreel
04-04-2007, 05:14 PM
no it's not.

meanwhile the tigers / bj's game is 10-7.

10-9 now going into the 9th

creek14
04-04-2007, 05:23 PM
So I'm in DC. Turned on the TV last night and there was Jimbo on the sports segment of one of the local stations. He was pimping Austin and Felipe big time.

He was sitting, so I couldn't see if he was wearing leather pants.

I don't miss Jimbo.

RFS62
04-04-2007, 05:33 PM
I don't miss Jimbo.


Whenever someone talks about missing Jimbo, it reminds me of my favorite love poem.

It's titled "Sometimes I miss her"


Sometimes I miss her
Sometimes I miss her
I ran into an old girlfriend on the street last night
Then I backed up and ran into her again.

Sometimes I miss her.

Falls City Beer
04-04-2007, 05:39 PM
The Nats are so bad they came back against a brutally overrated arm (Sanchez) to grab the getaway game!!!

Woohoo.

registerthis
04-04-2007, 06:37 PM
So I'm in DC. Turned on the TV last night and there was Jimbo on the sports segment of one of the local stations. He was pimping Austin and Felipe big time.

He was sitting, so I couldn't see if he was wearing leather pants.

I don't miss Jimbo.

I think we were watching the same thing, Creek. I think it was the local Fox affiliate, he was towing the network line pretty hardcore.

Sorry for the crap weather we're having here, BTW. Normally April is nicer here!

pedro
04-04-2007, 06:40 PM
They both went 2 for 4 today.

Nats got good relief pitching today. They're going to need it.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=270404120

BRM
04-04-2007, 06:41 PM
They both went 2 for 4 today.

Nats got good relief pitching today. They're going to need it.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=270404120

Wagner had two scoreless innings today.

pedro
04-04-2007, 06:43 PM
Wagner had two scoreless innings today.

and only 1 walk. (no K's)

I might have to check out the archive on mlb.tv and watch his innings. Maybe this mlb.tv will be ok.

BRM
04-04-2007, 06:47 PM
The Nats announcers were really talking him up last night.

M2
04-04-2007, 07:27 PM
The Nats are so bad they came back against a brutally overrated arm (Sanchez) to grab the getaway game!!!

Woohoo.

I like Sanchez quite a bit. IMO, he's the best young pitcher the Fish have got. Though I think he'll probably get his head handed to him this season. He's 23 and even good young arms get their fair share of beatings.

Chip R
04-04-2007, 07:32 PM
Even the worst teams are going to win a third of their games. It's not like the NL is stacked with super teams.
I could see them winning 50 games.

MartyFan
04-04-2007, 07:34 PM
Bowden's contract expired at the end of the 2006 season.

http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060309&content_id=1341895&vkey=news_was&fext=.jsp&c_id=was

If Kasten wasn't happy with him, he wouldn't have brought him back for 2007.

Of course, Bowden still might get fired at the end of the year, but Kasten liked him enough to bring him back this year. Otherwise Kasten's pick would be in the GM desk right now.

I am not convinced that he liked Bowden as much as he was not going to bring in a NEW GM to turn around the ship when Bowden had already gone so deep into the offseason without getting any talent on this team.

I don't think he will last the entire season and maybe not even the month of April.

REDREAD
04-04-2007, 07:36 PM
Well so much for "dumping the deadwood".

D'Janelo is a cheap stopgap/filler guy.. Better idea than "investing" 2 million in Conine and the expensive fillers we have. Obviously, they are punting the whole season and focusing on rebuilding.

Interesting.. I thought I remembered a big chorus years ago hoping Wayne would do exactly what the Nationals are doing.. rebuild the farm system right, even if it meant a couple 100 loss seasons.. Maybe those folks aren't reading this thread.

REDREAD
04-04-2007, 07:41 PM
I am not convinced that he liked Bowden as much as he was not going to bring in a NEW GM to turn around the ship when Bowden had already gone so deep into the offseason without getting any talent on this team.

I don't think he will last the entire season and maybe not even the month of April.

We'll never know for sure, but when Cast took over it wasn't "too late" for him to can DanO. Kasten knew this was going to be a lost season anyhow, so who cares if they get a new GM mid-winter (or whenever he took over).
IIRC, Kasten started before the Maj trade, didn't he?

In any event, Kasten likes Bowden enough to bring him back for this year, even if it's on secret double probation or whatever you guys want to rationalize.

Also, I don't care if Bowden gets fired tommorrow, or who's responsible. My point is that Washington is rebuilding right. They are doing the Marlins model.
Depending on their owner, however, they might spend the money to keep the talent longterm.

REDREAD
04-04-2007, 07:42 PM
Sounds like a great plan to me.

For the 25th man on a season that you plan on conceding, does it really matter? As long as he's not blocking a ML ready prospect, it doesn't matter.