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TOBTTReds
04-05-2007, 03:23 PM
I was watching the Royals/Red Sox game last night, and Odalis Perez, the starter for the Royals last night, threw a 90 mph fastball just on the outside corner. It was straight, and just on the black, and 90 mph. The catch you ask? The ball had no spin, no rotations, nothing. They showed a close up replay of the ball leaving his hand going to the catcher and it could have been a still image of a baseball. There was less spin on this fastball than any Wakefield knuckler. He had a normal grip on the ball too.

I work for a company that charts every single pitch in baseball and I have never seen anything like this, nor have others that have worked there for a few years.

Has anyone seen such a pitch before? I thought it was amazing.

Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHN6yST9M1Q

TeamSelig
04-05-2007, 04:53 PM
Hmm..weird..

Superdude
04-05-2007, 05:02 PM
This partically off subject, but speaking of crazy pitches...Was Arroyo's slider to strikeout Soriano yesterday the most filthy breaking ball you've ever seen? I've literally never seen a ball break that much.

dougdirt
04-05-2007, 05:06 PM
This partically off subject, but speaking of crazy pitches...Was Arroyo's slider to strikeout Soriano yesterday the most filthy breaking ball you've ever seen? I've literally never seen a ball break that much.

I thought the same thing when he threw it. That thing seriously broke 2 feet side ways and dropped off a foot.

Red Leader
04-05-2007, 05:08 PM
I've seen pitchers throw their normal fastball and the ball has little rotation on it. It will dance one way or another depending on which hand they are throwing from and wind, etc, but I've NEVER seen someone throw a fastball with absolutely no rotation on the ball. I would think you would have to have some rotation on the ball if you were following through properly.

paulrichjr
04-05-2007, 05:12 PM
I was watching the Royals/Red Sox game last night, and Odalis Perez, the starter for the Royals last night, threw a 90 mph fastball just on the outside corner. It was straight, and just on the black, and 90 mph. The catch you ask? The ball had no spin, no rotations, nothing. They showed a close up replay of the ball leaving his hand going to the catcher and it could have been a still image of a baseball. There was less spin on this fastball than any Wakefield knuckler. He had a normal grip on the ball too.

I work for a company that charts every single pitch in baseball and I have never seen anything like this, nor have others that have worked there for a few years.

Has anyone seen such a pitch before? I thought it was amazing.


What kind of job do you do? There are companies that chart every pitch in baseball? Why? Do they do other things? Does MLB pay for this data or each club?

Chip R
04-05-2007, 05:17 PM
This partically off subject, but speaking of crazy pitches...Was Arroyo's slider to strikeout Soriano yesterday the most filthy breaking ball you've ever seen? I've literally never seen a ball break that much.


That was like a Mark Mallory pitch. Only it was good.

dabvu2498
04-05-2007, 05:26 PM
The perfect splitter?

TOBTTReds
04-05-2007, 06:44 PM
What kind of job do you do? There are companies that chart every pitch in baseball? Why? Do they do other things? Does MLB pay for this data or each club?

Teams pay for it for advance scouting purposes. We also do other projects for them as well, dealing with tendancies, baserunning, fielding, etc.

Spitball
04-05-2007, 07:25 PM
The perfect splitter?

That's exactly what I was thinking, a Cuban fastball. I can't think of another way to throw a ball with a normal grip and not have spin on the ball. It is odd that there was very little movement. Usually it drops like a splitter.

Red Leader
04-05-2007, 07:27 PM
Teams pay for it for advance scouting purposes. We also do other projects for them as well, dealing with tendancies, baserunning, fielding, etc.

Hiring? :D

MartyFan
04-05-2007, 07:36 PM
Teams pay for it for advance scouting purposes. We also do other projects for them as well, dealing with tendancies, baserunning, fielding, etc.

Do you get to see the finished data? :)

It would be cool to hear the process...not any results that would get you in trouble but just the process of what you look at and what weight the stats are given.

If you can elaborate...that'd be great.

Ltlabner
04-05-2007, 08:50 PM
I really thought this thread was going to be about Mayor Mallories opening day "pitch". :laugh:

reds44
04-05-2007, 11:27 PM
Teams pay for it for advance scouting purposes. We also do other projects for them as well, dealing with tendancies, baserunning, fielding, etc.
Want to hook me up with a job in about a 14 months?

;)

adampad
04-06-2007, 12:07 AM
Bronson had some serouisly filthy stuff yesterday for sure.

I want to see a video of the pitch he seen. Seems hard to believe.

TOBTTReds
04-06-2007, 12:19 AM
If anyone knows how to put up a video on youtube, let me know bc I have it on DVD.

I work for Baseball Info Solutions (I don't have a bio on the website). We score and chart every game for many purposes. One is for other MLB teams to use us as a resource for scouting and other projects like I mentioned before.

Also I'm sure many of you are familiar with The Fielding Bible, and the Bill James Handbook, both of which are produced by BIS. We also do work for fantasy baseball companies. We have every game on DVD in the last 2 years, and every game on tape from 2002-2004. We also have a system that allows us to look up any pitch, or any result from every hitter and pitcher the last two years. For instance, when I started working here, I watched every Wily Mo HR just by searching for Wily Mo, all hits resulting in HR's, and I can even subsearch what pitch (FB, Cv, Ch) it was thrown to him. Coolest system.

I work on the baseball side of things like charting and helping with projects, not the technical or computer side. So I don't understand all the tech stuff. That's probably all I can really say about what we do for others.

Since I'm the only Reds fan there, I get to score and chart the Reds' games without competition from others. So I had the joy of watching opening day twice very closely. That is why I started a thread about David Ross after watching that game a couple times.

So, someone hit me up with how to get a video on youtube, and I'll see what I can do.

HumnHilghtFreel
04-06-2007, 12:44 AM
I'm not sure, since it's on DVD, but I used Windows Movie Maker to edit videos. You may be able to take video straight from the DVD into that program and edit it down to the pitch you're talking about, then it's a simple save and upload to Youtube.

Edit: Since people were talking about Arroyo's strikeout of Soriano. HERE (http://youtube.com/watch?v=XU9ntyv6F0s) it is

jhiller21
04-06-2007, 01:10 AM
This partically off subject, but speaking of crazy pitches...Was Arroyo's slider to strikeout Soriano yesterday the most filthy breaking ball you've ever seen? I've literally never seen a ball break that much.

Pretty much every breaking ball Arroyo threw in that game was filthy. But yes, that slider to Soriano was absolutely ridiculous. I think I watched it about ten times straight.

As for Perez's 90 mph heater with no rotation on the ball? I think I'd have to see that to believe it.

TOBTTReds
04-06-2007, 01:26 AM
Edit: Since people were talking about Arroyo's strikeout of Soriano. HERE (http://youtube.com/watch?v=XU9ntyv6F0s) it is

The wind must have been crazy during that pitch. Not that it blew the ball, but if the wind is blowing back into the face of the pitch, then there will be more friction on the ball making the spin and seams have a much greater effect. I know there were a few others from that were crazy last night from him.

TOBTTReds
04-06-2007, 01:49 AM
THOSE OF YOU WITH MLB.TV

At the 39:30 (Top of the 2nd) mark of the Royals/Red Sox game from April 4th you can see this pitch. It is a called strike 3 on Coco Crisp.

The announcers make note of it having no spin, sound amazed, then move on to the next hitter like it wasn't too big of a deal.

reds44
04-06-2007, 02:09 AM
THOSE OF YOU WITH MLB.TV

At the 39:30 (Top of the 2nd) mark of the Royals/Red Sox game from April 4th you can see this pitch. It is a called strike 3 on Coco Crisp.

The announcers make note of it having no spin, sound amazed, then move on to the next hitter like it wasn't too big of a deal.
WOW, that was insane.

:eek: :eek:

It literally had no spin on it.

TOBTTReds
04-06-2007, 02:13 AM
WOW, that was insane.

:eek: :eek:

It literally had no spin on it.

Thank you. I'm glad someone else saw it now so I don't look crazy!

I'm glad that was early in the game, because I was about to watch every OP pitch that game just to find it bc I forgot where it happened and I accidentally clicked on that AB.

reds44
04-06-2007, 02:27 AM
Thank you. I'm glad someone else saw it now so I don't look crazy!

I'm glad that was early in the game, because I was about to watch every OP pitch that game just to find it bc I forgot where it happened and I accidentally clicked on that AB.
It's just hard to believe that it really happend, I had to watch it 3 or 4 times before I accepted it.

How did he do that?

HumnHilghtFreel
04-06-2007, 02:27 AM
THOSE OF YOU WITH MLB.TV

At the 39:30 (Top of the 2nd) mark of the Royals/Red Sox game from April 4th you can see this pitch. It is a called strike 3 on Coco Crisp.

The announcers make note of it having no spin, sound amazed, then move on to the next hitter like it wasn't too big of a deal.

I just watched it. It had a little bit of rotation, but there was so little that it looked like it was in slow motion or something. I only saw the seams rotate maybe twice before it got to the plate.

thatcoolguy_22
04-06-2007, 02:30 AM
This partically off subject, but speaking of crazy pitches...Was Arroyo's slider to strikeout Soriano yesterday the most filthy breaking ball you've ever seen? I've literally never seen a ball break that much.

myself and 3 coworkers went ballistic when he threw that slider to soriano. I was talking up arroyo all day and the first batter he k's was the most ridiculous slider in the last 3 years of reds baseball. they all became believers instantly

Farney
04-06-2007, 02:36 AM
Is the video of Perez's pitch online yet?

TOBTTReds
04-06-2007, 02:37 AM
I just watched it. It had a little bit of rotation, but there was so little that it looked like it was in slow motion or something. I only saw the seams rotate maybe twice before it got to the plate.

It might have rotated within 5 feet of his hand, but the last 55 feet it did nothing.

jhiller21
04-06-2007, 02:51 AM
The wind must have been crazy during that pitch. Not that it blew the ball, but if the wind is blowing back into the face of the pitch, then there will be more friction on the ball making the spin and seams have a much greater effect. I know there were a few others from that were crazy last night from him.

That would explain why his slider (especially the one to Soriano) was breaking so hard to the left, and his curve dropping so hard at the plate. Interesting stuff, the wind was swirling pretty bad that night.

jhiller21
04-06-2007, 03:05 AM
Imagine pitching in a wind tunnel into 35-40 mph winds. You could get some ridiculous movement, albeit slowed, on your breaking stuff.

adampad
04-06-2007, 05:40 PM
Someone has got to get this on youtube.

HumnHilghtFreel
04-06-2007, 06:16 PM
Someone has got to get this on youtube.

I tried, but I only have the demo version of Windows Media Recorder, so I couldn't record long enough. If someone would like to donate the $80 for me to get the full version I'd be happy to upload it:)

TOBTTReds
04-06-2007, 06:57 PM
Someone has got to get this on youtube.

I'll try tonight at work. Someone on the computer side has got to know how to do it.

jfar23
04-06-2007, 07:21 PM
You have to get a program that can rip the video from the dvd onto your computer as a mpeg/avi file. I've used some crappy freeware program called dvdx but I'm by no means an expert on the subject. I'm sure there are better programs.

TOBTTReds
04-11-2007, 07:26 PM
Alright. Finally got it on youtube. Take a look!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHN6yST9M1Q

SirFelixCat
04-11-2007, 07:37 PM
:bump: for later viewing tonight when I get home.

kaldaniels
04-11-2007, 07:46 PM
Alright. Finally got it on youtube. Take a look!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHN6yST9M1Q

The Man took it down.

TOBTTReds
04-11-2007, 07:53 PM
I dont know. I just put it up. It should last atleast an hour right?

The Josh Hamilton clips are on there still so I'm thinking this one might make it.

TOBTTReds
04-11-2007, 08:42 PM
It's finally up!

HumnHilghtFreel
04-11-2007, 08:53 PM
It's finally up!

Yeah Youtube takes forever to process sometimes. I think it's because they compress the videos a lot. I know the quality on mine goes way down from the raw file to youtube.

ThatPitchIsDunn
04-11-2007, 09:38 PM
This makes me think of the pitch Arroyo struck Lee out with earlier last year against the Cubbies. It started at least a foot and a half off the plate and just froze poor Derrek.

VR
04-11-2007, 09:51 PM
I thought the same thing when he threw it. That thing seriously broke 2 feet side ways and dropped off a foot.

Sounds like Bert "be home Blyleven"

TOBTTReds
04-12-2007, 01:32 AM
Yeah Youtube takes forever to process sometimes. I think it's because they compress the videos a lot. I know the quality on mine goes way down from the raw file to youtube.

Yeah this was about an hour. Still looks decent.

BLEEDS
04-12-2007, 02:24 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU9ntyv6F0s

jhiller21
04-12-2007, 04:32 AM
You weren't kidding, that's bizarre. I could understand throwing it with a funky grip but at 90 mph? Cool stuff, thanks for the upload.

Edit: Watching the slow-mo, it's almost like he pushes the seam of the ball straight off his fingers, which negates the spin, but how could he throw it that hard? Just goes to show the strange things that happen in this game.

Doro
04-12-2007, 05:30 PM
wow .... I didnt know that was possible. Does he throw this a lot or was it just some freak accident thing?

adampad
04-12-2007, 05:59 PM
DAMN IT DAMN IT. I missed it. Someone please put it back on there.

jfar23
04-12-2007, 07:09 PM
MLB is fast on taking down stuff. I had Paul O'Neils baseball punt on there and it lasted like a day :laugh: They must have big plans for it in the future.

TOBTTReds
04-13-2007, 04:49 PM
wow .... I didnt know that was possible. Does he throw this a lot or was it just some freak accident thing?

I've seen his other 4-seamers and they spin. I think it was a freak incident.

redsrule2500
04-13-2007, 06:14 PM
It was freaking taken down...Anyone have it?!

adampad
04-13-2007, 06:44 PM
And yet, Bronsons pitch is still up. Maybe it has something to do with the keywords when its listed.