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TOBTTReds
04-08-2007, 01:09 AM
I've never said this before, but after these few games, the Reds are doing the little things right. I know this isn't something that lasts forever, but it is nice to see so far.

Good plays (that I can think of):
8 SB's, 0 CS. Has anyone been out on the bases? (one now that I think of it: Freel when the throw got by Lee, but Lee had a 1 in a million bounce back for the throw)
Edwin and Dunn both taking extra bases when the defense wasn't paying attention (EdE went to third on Griffey's infield hit when no one was at 3rd and Dunn turned a walk into a two bagger)
Sacrifice bunts from our pitchers! Lohse, Harang, and Arroyo very good at it so far (one bad from MB)
Harang's defense (cat like off the mound...:eek: )
The Reds have only a few errors, and all but one is a base error only, not costing them outs.

Things our opponents have done that the Reds haven't:
Get caught stealing a few times (Cubs)
Run into unnecessary tag out on grounder to 3rd (Theriot I think)
Missing easy outs (Bay, Nady, Wilson...today alone)
Have our most important hitters absolutely flail at bad pitches (Lee and Soriano)
Bullpen give up game (Cubs)


We are definitely on the smiling side of the boneheaded play category.

The only bad plays I can think of are: Ross (idiot play of the year probably, even after all 162), Dunn E, Freel E, Griffey misplaying a couple grounders to him.

dougdirt
04-08-2007, 01:19 AM
Reds batters have 25 walks.
Opposing batters have 12 walks.

tripleaaaron
04-08-2007, 01:24 AM
Hopefully we can remain on the good side of these stats after Miltons start tomorrow.

Marge'sMullet
04-08-2007, 01:33 AM
Hopefully we can remain on the good side of these stats after Miltons start tomorrow.

I'm weary of the "Sunday Special". I could see Castro, Hamilton and maybe even Moeller in there.

ED44
04-08-2007, 01:46 AM
I will add the Ross sac fly to add another run on the board on Friday night. It seems like situations like this is where the Reds have been known to strikeout/pop out (anything but getting the runner in from 3rd with less than 2 outs). Very early still, but lots of reasons to be optimistic imo.

Degenerate39
04-08-2007, 09:15 AM
I've never said this before, but after these few games, the Reds are doing the little things right. I know this isn't something that lasts forever, but it is nice to see so far.

Good plays (that I can think of):
8 SB's, 0 CS. Has anyone been out on the bases? (one now that I think of it: Freel when the throw got by Lee, but Lee had a 1 in a million bounce back for the throw)
Edwin and Dunn both taking extra bases when the defense wasn't paying attention (EdE went to third on Griffey's infield hit when no one was at 3rd and Dunn turned a walk into a two bagger)
Sacrifice bunts from our pitchers! Lohse, Harang, and Arroyo very good at it so far (one bad from MB)
Harang's defense (cat like off the mound...:eek: )
The Reds have only a few errors, and all but one is a base error only, not costing them outs.

Things our opponents have done that the Reds haven't:
Get caught stealing a few times (Cubs)
Run into unnecessary tag out on grounder to 3rd (Theriot I think)
Missing easy outs (Bay, Nady, Wilson...today alone)
Have our most important hitters absolutely flail at bad pitches (Lee and Soriano)
Bullpen give up game (Cubs)


We are definitely on the smiling side of the boneheaded play category.

The only bad plays I can think of are: Ross (idiot play of the year probably, even after all 162), Dunn E, Freel E, Griffey misplaying a couple grounders to him.

Very good post. The Reds have been doing very good in all aspects of the game thus far. The starting rotation has been doing good, the offense is good, defense is better than last years, and the bullpen has stepped it up big time. This might be the year of the Reds if they continue to do what they're doing.

DTCromer
04-08-2007, 09:49 AM
Edwin and Dunn both taking extra bases when the defense wasn't paying attention

Adam hasn't hustled out of the box twice this week. 1 ended up being a single that could've turned into a double. Another one was his HR yesterday where I'm not sure if he thought he got it all or was just a regular fly ball. Either way, he needs to learn to get out of the box better. Adam's 1st week was good for a Dunn hater like me, but a little thing like that annoys me about a lot of guys, not just Adam.

jojo
04-08-2007, 09:56 AM
Adam hasn't hustled out of the box twice this week. 1 ended up being a single that could've turned into a double. Another one was his HR yesterday where I'm not sure if he thought he got it all or was just a regular fly ball. Either way, he needs to learn to get out of the box better. Adam's 1st week was good for a Dunn hater like me, but a little thing like that annoys me about a lot of guys, not just Adam.

Happy Easter to you too!!!!!!!!!!! :mooner:

Degenerate39
04-08-2007, 09:58 AM
Adam hasn't hustled out of the box twice this week. 1 ended up being a single that could've turned into a double. Another one was his HR yesterday where I'm not sure if he thought he got it all or was just a regular fly ball. Either way, he needs to learn to get out of the box better. Adam's 1st week was good for a Dunn hater like me, but a little thing like that annoys me about a lot of guys, not just Adam.

Do the 'Dunn haters' not realize that we would have probably lost the game yesterday if it wasn't for Dunn. And we would've won opening day 2-1 if it wasn't for Dunn

TheWalls
04-08-2007, 10:22 AM
I'm weary of the "Sunday Special". I could see Castro, Hamilton and maybe even Moeller in there.

I was stunned to see the posted lineup is the full starting 8!
:jump:

TheWalls
04-08-2007, 10:23 AM
Reds batters have 25 walks.
Opposing batters have 12 walks.

WOW!:eek:

Remember the old Riverfront Stadium Animation?

WALKS WILL HAUNT!

paintmered
04-08-2007, 10:26 AM
Reds batters have 25 walks.
Opposing batters have 12 walks.

Yep, that's the big stat. :thumbup:

TeamBoone
04-08-2007, 11:32 AM
I will add the Ross sac fly to add another run on the board on Friday night. It seems like situations like this is where the Reds have been known to strikeout/pop out (anything but getting the runner in from 3rd with less than 2 outs). Very early still, but lots of reasons to be optimistic imo.

But there were several sac opportunities in these first five games that weren't taken advantage of... Ross was one of them that couldn't get it done previously.

I believe twice there was a guy on third with 0 or 1 outs and he was still standing there when the inning ended... Freel and Conine maybe?

PS - I'm not being picky; just wanted to point out that sac flies are not always that easy to get, so I don't consider actually getting one a "doing the little things right"... often it's flat out luck that the batter got a healthy piece of the ball.

Ltlabner
04-08-2007, 12:48 PM
This is a rushed post so it probably woln't come out right.

But the Reds seem to be doing a lot of the "little things" but not the traditional things that most people think of (and usually have little or in some cases a negative effect) when they think "the little things".

As people have pointed out, lots of patience at the plate. Even Gonzo has been drawing walks. Lot's of first and second pitch strikes from the pitching staff. Consequently not many walks issued thus far. I don't even think they've hit a batter as yet. This is all from memory so I may be off here.

While they have been stealing some bases, far more importantly, they haven't been getting caught. Even streching out extra bases I don't recall any really sloppy mistakes resulting in getting thrown out thus erasing the baserunner.

One play that stood out as a HUGE "little thing" from yesterday. Edwin had to make a long throw after an akward hop. He one hopped it to Hatte, but it was on line and Hatte was able to do something with it and got the out.

So, I agree they are doing the little things. The little things that actually matter in the long run.

redsmetz
04-08-2007, 12:56 PM
This is a rushed post so it probably woln't come out right.

But the Reds seem to be doing a lot of the "little things" but not the traditional things that most people think of (and usually have little or in some cases a negative effect) when they think "the little things".

As people have pointed out, lots of patience at the plate. Even Gonzo has been drawing walks. Lot's of first and second pitch strikes from the pitching staff. Consequently not many walks issued thus far. I don't even think they've hit a batter as yet. This is all from memory so I may be off here.

While they have been stealing some bases, far more importantly, they haven't been getting caught. Even streching out extra bases I don't recall any really sloppy mistakes resulting in getting thrown out thus erasing the baserunner.

One play that stood out as a HUGE "little thing" from yesterday. Edwin had to make a long throw after an akward hop. He one hopped it to Hatte, but it was on line and Hatte was able to do something with it and got the out.

So, I agree they are doing the little things. The little things that actually matter in the long run.

So in other words, the "little things" that add up to a number being added in the W column?

DTCromer
04-08-2007, 01:03 PM
Happy Easter to you too!!!!!!!!!!! :mooner:

Thanks.

People like me who don't like the progress Adam has been making are in the minority on this board and it amazes me. The guy has never improved his defense, lazy, hits 40 HR's every year yet only hits in the 240's with 80 some RBI's, didn't want to learn how to play 1st base when we asked, and yet he's constantly being defended by a lot of you guys. I have no problem being this kind of person on the board and I really do hope Adam proves me wrong because I'm a Reds fan first. But to sugarcoat and say, "HEY! WE NEED TO SUPPORT OUR PLAYERS" is incredulous. These guys are major league baseball players. I understand that argument in college, but not here.

It's been hashed and rehashed over and over on this board, but I find it amusing how much love this guy gets. Now, I fully expect to receive multiple neg. rep points because people will disagree with me on this subject and I'm beating a dead horse to some of you, but I've never fully understood your argument as to why this guy has been god to some around here.

redsmetz
04-08-2007, 01:06 PM
Thanks.

People like me who don't like the progress Adam has been making are in the minority on this board and it amazes me. The guy has never improved his defense, lazy, hits 40 HR's every year yet only hits in the 240's with 80 some RBI's, didn't want to learn how to play 1st base when we asked, and yet he's constantly being defended by a lot of you guys. I have no problem being this kind of person on the board and I really do hope Adam proves me wrong because I'm a Reds fan first. But to sugarcoat and say, "HEY! WE NEED TO SUPPORT OUR PLAYERS" is incredulous. These guys are major league baseball players. I understand that argument in college, but not here.

It's been hashed and rehashed over and over on this board, but I find it amusing how much love this guy gets. Now, I fully expect to receive multiple neg. rep points because people will disagree with me on this subject and I'm beating a dead horse to some of you, but I've never fully understood your argument as to why this guy has been god to some around here.

Sadly you have the opposite of "man love" for Adam - "man hate" and it's completely devoid of reality, frankly. There's no question he is at times a flawed player, and yet, he has put up numbers that scratch at some of the greats of this game. What is more surprising is that he's come in to this season with a seemingly new resolve to elevate his game. I think you're hatred of Adam is misguided, at best. I tired of your tirades, but don't think I'll waste any rep on it.

Falls City Beer
04-08-2007, 01:07 PM
Thanks.

People like me who don't like the progress Adam has been making are in the minority on this board and it amazes me. The guy has never improved his defense, lazy, hits 40 HR's every year yet only hits in the 240's with 80 some RBI's, didn't want to learn how to play 1st base when we asked, and yet he's constantly being defended by a lot of you guys. I have no problem being this kind of person on the board and I really do hope Adam proves me wrong because I'm a Reds fan first. But to sugarcoat and say, "HEY! WE NEED TO SUPPORT OUR PLAYERS" is incredulous. These guys are major league baseball players. I understand that argument in college, but not here.

It's been hashed and rehashed over and over on this board, but I find it amusing how much love this guy gets. Now, I fully expect to receive multiple neg. rep points because people will disagree with me on this subject and I'm beating a dead horse to some of you, but I've never fully understood your argument as to why this guy has been god to some around here.

You can like or dislike whomever you wish: I am curious, though, which players do you like?

WMR
04-08-2007, 01:08 PM
DT, are you looking at Adam Dunn of 2007 or are you criticizing the pre-2007 Adam Dunn? I've questioned his work ethic and commitment to baseball in the past as well, but the dude is in GREAT shape this year and looks likes a totally different player, IMO.

Granted he was a stat-filler before, but he's a legitimate MVP candidate judging from how he looks and how he is approaching this season. The dude has matured and grown up a bunch this past off-season.

Patrick Bateman
04-08-2007, 01:08 PM
but I've never fully understood your argument as to why this guy has been god to some around here.

It's not rocket science.

The guy has been the Reds best player (because of his superior offensive ability) since he broke into the league. And it's not close. People tend to like the players that lead to the most victories.

dougdirt
04-08-2007, 01:52 PM
Thanks.

People like me who don't like the progress Adam has been making are in the minority on this board and it amazes me. The guy has never improved his defense, lazy, hits 40 HR's every year yet only hits in the 240's with 80 some RBI's, didn't want to learn how to play 1st base when we asked, and yet he's constantly being defended by a lot of you guys. I have no problem being this kind of person on the board and I really do hope Adam proves me wrong because I'm a Reds fan first. But to sugarcoat and say, "HEY! WE NEED TO SUPPORT OUR PLAYERS" is incredulous. These guys are major league baseball players. I understand that argument in college, but not here.

It's been hashed and rehashed over and over on this board, but I find it amusing how much love this guy gets. Now, I fully expect to receive multiple neg. rep points because people will disagree with me on this subject and I'm beating a dead horse to some of you, but I've never fully understood your argument as to why this guy has been god to some around here.

Dunn has never had a season of RBI in the 80s. While I am far from a person who loves what Dunn does at the plate, as I would love to see him hit .260/.380/.550, and he frustrates me all the time, he is still a very valuable hitter with his ability to make pitchers throw so many pitchers, take walks and get extra base hits. I do think that there are some around these parts who have a little too much man love for Dunn, but to each their own I guess. We all have opinions and we are all right if you ask us.

RedsManRick
04-08-2007, 03:22 PM
Thanks.

People like me who don't like the progress Adam has been making are in the minority on this board and it amazes me. The guy has never improved his defense, lazy, hits 40 HR's every year yet only hits in the 240's with 80 some RBI's, didn't want to learn how to play 1st base when we asked, and yet he's constantly being defended by a lot of you guys. I have no problem being this kind of person on the board and I really do hope Adam proves me wrong because I'm a Reds fan first. But to sugarcoat and say, "HEY! WE NEED TO SUPPORT OUR PLAYERS" is incredulous. These guys are major league baseball players. I understand that argument in college, but not here.

It's been hashed and rehashed over and over on this board, but I find it amusing how much love this guy gets. Now, I fully expect to receive multiple neg. rep points because people will disagree with me on this subject and I'm beating a dead horse to some of you, but I've never fully understood your argument as to why this guy has been god to some around here.

Adam Dunn is a worse baseball player than the Adam Dunn we think he should be. But that Adam Dunn that he is is still better than most major league baseball players.

Judge him against what he could be if you want, but don't confuse that with how good of a player he actually is.

A team full of David Ecksteins and Scott Hattebergs, guys making the most of their limited potential, won't win very many games. 80% of 100 is still more than 100% of 50. At the end of the day, more production is better than less.

jojo
04-08-2007, 10:47 PM
Thanks.

People like me who don't like the progress Adam has been making are in the minority on this board and it amazes me. The guy has never improved his defense, lazy, hits 40 HR's every year yet only hits in the 240's with 80 some RBI's, didn't want to learn how to play 1st base when we asked, and yet he's constantly being defended by a lot of you guys. I have no problem being this kind of person on the board and I really do hope Adam proves me wrong because I'm a Reds fan first. But to sugarcoat and say, "HEY! WE NEED TO SUPPORT OUR PLAYERS" is incredulous. These guys are major league baseball players. I understand that argument in college, but not here.

It's been hashed and rehashed over and over on this board, but I find it amusing how much love this guy gets. Now, I fully expect to receive multiple neg. rep points because people will disagree with me on this subject and I'm beating a dead horse to some of you, but I've never fully understood your argument as to why this guy has been god to some around here.

I don't think you should automatically expect negative rep points for stating a less than glowing opinion of Dunn. Search my first few posts on here last November (here (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52777&highlight=jojo+dunn) and here (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52774&highlight=jojo+dunn) for instance). It's pretty clear that I view Dunn as a flawed player whose offensive impact is significantly lessened by his defensive deficiencies (like I say here (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1248453&postcount=354)).

However, in my experience, if you're open-minded, respectful of the opposite view when explaining why you disagree and basically imagine others as if they are sitting across the table from you, it's almost virtually impossible to get neg rep points...

However, if you're perceived as coming to the table with an agenda it's more likely you'll get negged. Basically most respect a desire to contribute because there's a good chance you'll in some way enrich the community. I respect honest insight that helps illuminate a topic even if it contradicts something I might think at times or proves me dead wrong about an issue (thats a great thing because it means I've learned something). I bet most others here are the same way. Even if your opinion contradicts 99% of the members here, you'll get engaged if you're perceived as seeking honest discussion. Of course, it also helps to get the facts straight.

TeamBoone
04-08-2007, 11:35 PM
It's been hashed and rehashed over and over on this board, but I find it amusing how much love this guy gets. Now, I fully expect to receive multiple neg. rep points because people will disagree with me on this subject and I'm beating a dead horse to some of you, but I've never fully understood your argument as to why this guy has been god to some around here.

Ironically, I feel exactly the opposite that you do.

Even though Adam has been a leader or near leader in several categories (as many of our stat guys have pointed out over and over), he hasn't gotten much love on this board because of his BA.

In my mind's eye, I've always thought that the majority on the board do not like Adam Dunn.

RANDY IN INDY
04-09-2007, 09:19 AM
I don't think it is as much people not liking Adam Dunn as it is people not liking certain things about his game. Those few things keep him from becoming the "baseball god" that some think he is and others think he can be.

Heath
04-09-2007, 09:22 AM
WOW!:eek:

Remember the old Riverfront Stadium Animation?

WALKS WILL HAUNT!

I also liked the Kahn's Big Red Smokey sliding into second base.

Cracked me up everytime.

RANDY IN INDY
04-09-2007, 09:38 AM
Is that a hot dog or a Big Red Smokey?

DTCromer
04-09-2007, 09:59 AM
I don't think it is as much people not liking Adam Dunn as it is people not liking certain things about his game. Those few things keep him from becoming the "baseball god" that some think he is and others think he can be.

I agree. Adam's potential is so much greater than it could be. You know how frustrating it is for Adam to have 40 bombs and not have 100 RBI's? Doesn't that mean anything to anyone? I also do think it's ironic that there's a thread about Griffey not hustling when Adam has done the exact same thing this past week. Oh well, like I said, I hope I'm wrong about Adam this year.

DTCromer
04-09-2007, 10:02 AM
I don't think you should automatically expect negative rep points for stating a less than glowing opinion of Dunn. Search my first few posts on here last November (here (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52777&highlight=jojo+dunn) and here (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52774&highlight=jojo+dunn) for instance). It's pretty clear that I view Dunn as a flawed player whose offensive impact is significantly lessened by his defensive deficiencies (like I say here (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1248453&postcount=354)).

However, in my experience, if you're open-minded, respectful of the opposite view when explaining why you disagree and basically imagine others as if they are sitting across the table from you, it's almost virtually impossible to get neg rep points...

However, if you're perceived as coming to the table with an agenda it's more likely you'll get negged. Basically most respect a desire to contribute because there's a good chance you'll in some way enrich the community. I respect honest insight that helps illuminate a topic even if it contradicts something I might think at times or proves me dead wrong about an issue (thats a great thing because it means I've learned something). I bet most others here are the same way. Even if your opinion contradicts 99% of the members here, you'll get engaged if you're perceived as seeking honest discussion. Of course, it also helps to get the facts straight.


thanks for the post. I know I've said it here before, but I have no agenda for Adam and don't think that he's a horrible baseball player. I just think he could be MUCH better than he is right now. It's the little things about him that irritate the hell out of me. Do I care if a player jogs out to his position in the field? Hell no, but I do think Adam is lazy. Sure he lost weight this year, but how long has it taken for him to do that? So far, Adam has been doing very well at the plate, but then again, it seems like he does this every April so I'll reserve my judgement on the guy for this year.

Ltlabner
04-09-2007, 10:05 AM
You know how frustrating it is for Adam to have 40 bombs and not have 100 RBI's? .

So if he continues to hit 40 homers and picks up the additional 8 RBI's to reach the mythical 100 RBI level you'll be totally happy with him? You only started to complain about him last year? He got more than 100 RBI's every other year of his big league carear so I'm sure you were very pleased with him up until last year, right?

TeamBoone
04-09-2007, 03:53 PM
He also walks well over a hundred times each season, which negates the opportunity for RBI unless the bases are loaded.

In addition, he seems to lead off an innings more than any other player on the team. And, as much as I hate to mention it, I'd be remiss not to mention the SOs.

All in all, having over 100 RBI (or close to it) is actually quite an accomplishment when you factor in how many times he doesn't get the opportunity.