PDA

View Full Version : Griffey's lack of hustle



Redlegs
04-08-2007, 09:42 PM
Any thoughts on Ken Griffey, Jr.'s long single off the top of the left field wall today?

11larkin11
04-08-2007, 09:43 PM
I figured someone would ask about this. He thought it was out, he did his HR walk, then realized it was off the wall, sprinted, but realized it was too late. I dont blame him for doing his signature HR walk, he thought it was out, as did a lot of people, including me.

Dracodave
04-08-2007, 09:44 PM
Any thoughts on Ken Griffey, Jr.'s long single off the top of the left field wall today?

It was either a homerun or it was caught. Even Dunn staled at third. Edwin about ran him over. No one thought it was a double off the wall but Edwin, who was probably thinking "Theres a heater in the dug-out. Run, Dunn, Run!"

RedFanAlways1966
04-08-2007, 09:49 PM
I guess it can be called lack of hustle, but I don't see it that way. By the way Junior left the batter's box it seemed that he thought it was a HR. He was giving it the trot. When it hit the wall the LF got it immediately on the carom. By then it was too late to go for a double. Not a good thing, but still a 2R single when the bats were dormant prior to that. I hope he pays in the kangaroo court and moves on from there. I hope the REDS fans move on too and realize that Griffey misjudged it. Run until it clears the wall, Junior, but considering you still scored later I won't hold a grudge.

Redlegs
04-08-2007, 09:52 PM
I remember a time when nodody stood and gawked at a long ball. If they did, they'd get a fastball under the chin during their next AB. That's part of the game that's not changed for the better. Hit the ball and run. No excuse for Junior not to be standing on 2nd base in that situation.

RedFanAlways1966
04-08-2007, 09:52 PM
It was either a homerun or it was caught. Even Dunn staled at third.

Actually Dunn did the right thing. If it is caught, then you score easily on the sac fly. If it is a HR or hits the wall, then you still score easily. If it is caught and you have to take steps to get back and tag up, then you might not make it or have to stay at third.

TeamSelig
04-08-2007, 09:53 PM
The other day he beat out an infield single. He hustles when needed.

Dracodave
04-08-2007, 09:54 PM
Actually Dunn did the right thing. If it is caught, then you score easily on the sac fly. If it is a HR or hits the wall, then you still score easily. If it is caught and you have to take steps to get back and tag up, then you might not make it or have to stay at third.

Read the rest of my post after that.


It was either a homerun or it was caught. Even Dunn staled at third. Edwin about ran him over. No one thought it was a double off the wall but Edwin, who was probably thinking "Theres a heater in the dug-out. Run, Dunn, Run!"

I too was thinking like Dunn, it was caught.

Redlegs
04-08-2007, 09:56 PM
Actually Dunn did the right thing.
Absolutely. Runner on third, go back to tag. Runner on 2nd, go half way. Excellent base running on both Dunn and Encarnarcion's part on that play.

RedFanAlways1966
04-08-2007, 09:58 PM
Read the rest of my post after that.

I too was thinking like Dunn, it was caught.

That's cool, dave. I thought you meant that. Just wanted to make sure others didn't think Adam's head wasn't in the game!

Redlegs
04-08-2007, 09:58 PM
Read the rest of my post after that.



I too was thinking like Dunn, it was caught.
Dunn didn't go back because he thought it was going to be caught, necessarily. That's basic baserunning in baseball. Runner on third less than two outs, go back and tag. In the event it's caught or if it's not, you score easily either way.

flyer85
04-08-2007, 10:02 PM
Needed a little mustard on that dog.

PickOff
04-08-2007, 10:02 PM
If this were an isolated incident, no big deal. But this happens fairly often with Griffey. He either needs to learn to judge his fly balls better or get out of the box a little faster.

captainmorgan07
04-08-2007, 10:02 PM
i don't see it as lack of hustle watching the game when he hit it i thought it was gone dunn absolutely did the right thing and the ball bounced right back to bay with jr speed these days i dunno if i he coulda made it a double

TOBTTReds
04-08-2007, 10:03 PM
I too was thinking like Dunn, it was caught.

I think you are missing the point. Whether he thought it was a HR, a 2B, or caught, he should be standing on 3rd base, ready to score whenever it touches the wall, ground, glove, or seats.

So there is no way to say what Dunn was thinking. EdE did it perfectly too like others said.

Back to the original point, HR trots are for sure HR's. Not oppage wall scrapers, especially doubles off the wall.

Degenerate39
04-08-2007, 10:06 PM
I knew it was only a matter of time before this thread would pop up

kbrake
04-08-2007, 10:07 PM
I had more of a problem with Freel getting thrown out trying to steal on the first pitch of the first inning. This offense isnt that great we cant give outs away like that.

Heath
04-08-2007, 10:07 PM
I think it's being picky.

With his advanced age and play, he needs to keep himself fresh.

Every ball hit that way seem to go. Why not his?

Nothing to see here, move on.

flyer85
04-08-2007, 10:14 PM
Jr was cadillacing because he thought it was a dinger. Wasn't the first time and won't be the last. Really not a big deal because a player of his status isn't going to be called on the carpet for it.

The issues this team is likely to have are offensive and the early season has done nothing to silence those doubts. This team has no offensive depth and if Phillips, Freel and Ross don't come through this team is going to struggle because there is no one to step in and replace them.

Redlegs
04-08-2007, 10:18 PM
Jr was cadillacing because he thought it was a dinger. Wasn't the first time and won't be the last. Really not a big deal because a player of his status isn't going to be called on the carpet for it.



Maybe not by some, but he was called out today by Marty Brennaman and Jeff Brantley on the radio side. Marty called it "a shame" and Brantley referred to it as "Griffey's 1000 ft single."

uks2h
04-08-2007, 10:18 PM
Give Me A Break People.

kaldaniels
04-08-2007, 10:21 PM
There are two distinct sides to this argument. 1) People who think you should be able to admire a HR. 2) People who think you should hustle of the box each AB. I myself am #2, but as above posts have said, lets agree to disagree.

flyer85
04-08-2007, 10:23 PM
Maybe not by some, but he was called out today by Marty Brennaman and Jeff Brantley on the radio side. Marty called it "a shame" and Brantley referred to it as "Griffey's 1000 ft single."... but that's as far as it will go. It's something Jr has done numerous times as a Red.

I'm far more worried about the offense of Freel, Phillips, Ross and the Hatty/Conine platoon.

Phhhl
04-08-2007, 10:41 PM
I'm fine with Jr. not "hustling" when his legs are held together with yarn and metal rods. I hold my breath every time he has to accelerate to a fly ball, or round third on a base hit to the outfield. I know he is a gamer by the reckless way he played when he first came here, but as we all know so painfully well that is what put him in this delicate position to begin with. I realize that the extent of his talent has been reduced to what he can do at the plate. But, that is still quite substantial and desperately needed on this team.

George Anderson
04-08-2007, 10:45 PM
I think it's being picky.

With his advanced age and play, he needs to keep himself fresh.

Every ball hit that way seem to go. Why not his?

Nothing to see here, move on.

As a baseball purist I hate seeing players not give it their all but in the case of Griffey I have little problem with it. One more ACL problem and I could really see him hang it up and I wouldn't blame him one bit. I would have a problem if a player with no past leg injuries didnt hustle on the field, but it would be sickening to see Griffey for example attempt to leg out an infield hit, tear his ACL again, and his career is done. Griffey needs to be wise and hustle only when necessary.

Jpup
04-08-2007, 10:45 PM
It happens far too often in all of baseball. Dunn did the same thing the other day. He ended up with a long single off the wall. It was either Thursday or Friday. Lots and lots of guys do this and I really don't like it. It can cost your club a game.

Jpup
04-08-2007, 10:46 PM
As a baseball purist I hate seeing players not give it their all but in the case of Griffey I have little problem with it. One more ACL problem and I could really see him hang it up and I wouldn't blame him one bit. I would have a problem if a player with no past leg injuries didnt hustle on the field, but it would be sickening to see Griffey for example attempt to leg out an infield hit, tear his ACL again, and his career is done. Griffey needs to be wise and hustle only when necessary.

He should always hustle. He's being paid 12 million dollars. What you are saying is like saying that Milton should only try 3 innings of every start because he might get hurt.

George Anderson
04-08-2007, 10:50 PM
He should always hustle. He's being paid 12 million dollars. What you are saying is like saying that Milton should only try 3 innings of every start because he might get hurt.

If Griffey hits a soft roller to the SS with the Reds up 10 runs in the 8th inning, how is it a good move to sprint your hardest to first when your ACL's are ticking time bombs?

flyer85
04-08-2007, 10:53 PM
It happens far too often in all of baseball. Dunn did the same thing the other day. He ended up with a long single off the wall. It was either Thursday or Friday. totally different, Dunn's single wasn't because he went into a HR trot, it was because RC-RF is shallow in GABP and it you hit a hard shot off the wall you can get thrown out going for a double if the OF plays it cleanly.. JR hit a high fly ball to LC off the top of the wall not played cleanly by the OFs. The throw didn't even go into 2nd. It should have been in an easy standup double.

It didn't effect the outcome of the game, time to move on.

Jpup
04-08-2007, 10:56 PM
totally different, Dunn's single wasn't because he went into a HR trot, it was because RC-RF is shallow in GABP and it you hit a hard shot off the wall you can get thrown out going for a double if the OF plays it cleanly.. JR hit a high fly ball to LC off the top of the wall not played cleanly by the OFs. The throw didn't even go into 2nd. It should have been in an easy standup double.

It didn't effect the outcome of the game, time to move on.

No, Dunn thought he hit a homer. Go back and watch it again. I'm pretty sure it was Wednesday Night, now that I think about it.

Razor Shines
04-08-2007, 10:59 PM
totally different, Dunn's single wasn't because he went into a HR trot, it was because RC-RF is shallow in GABP and it you hit a hard shot off the wall you can get thrown out going for a double if the OF plays it cleanly.. JR hit a high fly ball to LC off the top of the wall not played cleanly by the OFs. The throw didn't even go into 2nd. It should have been in an easy standup double.

It didn't effect the outcome of the game, time to move on.

But Dunn still did go into his home run trot. I don't like that Griffey did it today (I'm usually the one fiercely defending Jr.) but it's going to happen. Almost all home run hitters do it and occasionally they are going to get burned. I don't like it but it's something we're going to have to live with.

And I agree it didn't effect the outcome of the game, Jr. still scored.

flyer85
04-08-2007, 11:00 PM
Go back and watch it again. I was there. He got too much top hand in it to be a HR.

Razor Shines
04-08-2007, 11:00 PM
No, Dunn thought he hit a homer. Go back and watch it again. I'm pretty sure it was Wednesday Night, now that I think about it.

Yeah he did break into his home run trot, but he could have busted it out of the box and probably still not got a double, IMO. It was a shot and got back to the infield very quickly.

jmac
04-08-2007, 11:01 PM
No, Dunn thought he hit a homer. Go back and watch it again. I'm pretty sure it was Wednesday Night, now that I think about it.

I thought the ball was a hr too cause it was hit like a rocket.
It also was played perfectly off the wall and if dunn would have busted it toward 2nd, he would have still been out easy.

jmac
04-08-2007, 11:03 PM
Yeah he did break into his home run trot, but he could have busted it out of the box and probably still not got a double, IMO. It was a shot and got back to the infield very quickly.

Our posts our similar cause they were a minute apart !:beerme:

Jpup
04-08-2007, 11:05 PM
I was there. He got too much top hand in it to be a HR.

I understand that, but Dunner thought he got it. Either way, he should have been running instead of watching.

Cedric
04-08-2007, 11:05 PM
Do we really need to analyze every single snippet of a baseball game? I know it's the Redszone way, but let's get real.

The scrutiny on athletes these days is just enormous. I guess that's the downside to internet message boards and talk show radio.

Jpup
04-08-2007, 11:06 PM
Do we really need to analyze every single snippet of a baseball game? I know it's the Redszone way, but let's get real.

The scrutiny on athletes these days is just enormous. I guess that's the downside to internet message boards and talk show radio.

You don't have to post or read the threads that you don't like.

OldRightHander
04-08-2007, 11:15 PM
I guess if that play cost the Reds the game I would be on his case a bit more about it. That sort of thing has always ticked me off in recent years, but in this case that play is pretty far down the list of things that lead to the loss today.

vic715
04-08-2007, 11:19 PM
I remember a time when nodody stood and gawked at a long ball. If they did, they'd get a fastball under the chin during their next AB. That's part of the game that's not changed for the better. Hit the ball and run. No excuse for Junior not to be standing on 2nd base in that situation.

Back in the 60,s and 70's no manager would have allowed it either.I would love to hear Griffey explaining to Fred Hutchinson that he thought it was gone so he didn't think he should run hard.No knock against Jr its just the way times have changed.

TeamBoone
04-08-2007, 11:21 PM
I totally agree with Cedric. Every little thing is nitpicked to death.

I'll continue to read the threads, because I like to see who's doing the picking.

George Foster
04-08-2007, 11:27 PM
I was tought you don't assume anything in baseball. You don't assume you hit a homer, you don't assume it will get cought. You run. Where am I wrong?

kaldaniels
04-08-2007, 11:43 PM
I totally agree with Cedric. Every little thing is nitpicked to death.

I'll continue to read the threads, because I like to see who's doing the picking.


First, I agree, things do get nitpicked. No doubt. However, calling Jr. out on this isn't outlandish.

remdog
04-08-2007, 11:53 PM
I remember a time when nodody stood and gawked at a long ball. If they did, they'd get a fastball under the chin during their next AB. That's part of the game that's not changed for the better. Hit the ball and run. No excuse for Junior not to be standing on 2nd base in that situation.

Best post of the thread. I'm out of rep points today Redlegs but I'll get ya' tomorrow.

I made my viewpoint clear in the game thread: though I love Jr. he should have been running from the get go. Instead he stood there admiring a ball that was marginal to make the stands. AND, on top of it, the ball he hit the previous AB was very similar and didn't go out while he stood at the plate and admired it. He should have learned from that but instead he was too busy "stylin'".

At some point this needs to be adressed. And I liked the comment someone made about Jr. trying to explain this to Hutch. He'd be sitting his butt on the bench until he changed his approach. (And for those that are worried about Jr. hurting himself, sitting on the bench would solve that problem. :p: )

Rem

Ed Otten
04-08-2007, 11:54 PM
I was tought you don't assume anything in baseball. You don't assume you hit a homer, you don't assume it will get cought. You run. Where am I wrong?


Well you spelled taught and caught wrong, but other than that, I agree. :D

However, Junior did score later, so while in principle the point holds, in practice (at least today), it didn't make any difference.


Ed

Razor Shines
04-08-2007, 11:57 PM
I was tought you don't assume anything in baseball. You don't assume you hit a homer, you don't assume it will get cought. You run. Where am I wrong?

I think most of us were taught that, and no one is saying that you're wrong. And you can start with Jr. but you're not going to find a home run hitter playing today that doesn't do what he did. I don't like it either but like I said they all do it and occasionally they are going to get burned. It's something we're going to have to get used to if we're going to continue watching Major League Baseball. Fortunately it didn't make one bit of difference in the game. But you don't like Jr. anyway.

George Foster
04-09-2007, 12:11 AM
I think most of us were taught that, and no one is saying that you're wrong. And you can start with Jr. but you're not going to find a home run hitter playing today that doesn't do what he did. I don't like it either but like I said they all do it and occasionally they are going to get burned. It's something we're going to have to get used to if we're going to continue watching Major League Baseball. Fortunately it didn't make one bit of difference in the game. But you don't like Jr. anyway.

I don't care for anyone that does not give it their "all", in sports or life. I have "man love" for Hamilton right now because of what he has overcome but I would feel the EXACT same way about him if he had questionable hustle plays almost monthy during the season.

dougdirt
04-09-2007, 12:12 AM
Wah.

He scored that inning.

It happens.

Of all the things to bring up today, its that a guy got a hit and later scored a run and we are talking about the fact that he didn't run his hardest? Seriously, there has to be something better to bring up that was disappointing today.

Razor Shines
04-09-2007, 12:22 AM
I don't care for anyone that does not give it their "all", in sports or life. I have "man love" for Hamilton right now because of what he has overcome but I would feel the EXACT same way about him if he had questionable hustle plays almost monthy during the season.

You're right the guy's legs are put together with screws, and he still dives for balls and climbs walls in the outfield, but I don't consider him giving his all until he has to have a leg amputated.

And since you consider that a questionable hustle play I'm assuming you don't care for Dunn, Brandon Phillips or Edwin either, because I've seen of all of them stand and admire their home runs. Come to think of it I remember seeing Eric Davis do it too, and Barry Larkin....wow I can't believe you didn't care for those players either. Which Reds Players do you like? What about when a player hits a pop up on the infield and doesn't run it out? You said you never assume it's gonna be caught, so that has to be a questionable hustle play according to you. I wonder how many players have done that?

reds44
04-09-2007, 12:25 AM
lol this thread is great. He scored later in the inning, it happens. Nobody said a word when Dunn did it against the Cubs the other night. Players think they hit homers sometimes, when they don't.

The thing we should be talking about, is his willingness to go to left field this year. He already has 4 opposite filed hits already this year. Same thing goes with Dunn.

George Foster
04-09-2007, 12:26 AM
Well you spelled taught and caught wrong, but other than that, I agree. :D

However, Junior did score later, so while in principle the point holds, in practice (at least today), it didn't make any difference.


Ed

The first pick in the 2022 amateur baseball draft was up last night sick, and when we finally went to sleep, the Easter Bunny came a 6:45am. Thank-you for pointing out my spelling error.:thumbup:

Griffey scoring is not the point. What if he didn't score? What if there were 2 out, with Griffey on 1st instead of 2nd base, and a single was hit? Could we talk about his hustle then? Maybe there was not a chance of him getting to 2nd anyway, but I would rather him hustle to 1st with a big turn, and force a throw to 2nd, or back to 1st. Forcing throws is good.

westofyou
04-09-2007, 12:26 AM
Back in the 60,s and 70's no manager would have allowed it either.I would love to hear Griffey explaining to Fred Hutchinson that he thought it was gone so he didn't think he should run hard.No knock against Jr its just the way times have changed.

Yet, Roger Maris did it, Orlando Cepede did it, Rico Carty, Norm Cash, just to name a few. It's not a new thing and it's not anything that older players like Robin Roberts didn't notice when they played.

remdog
04-09-2007, 12:27 AM
Wah.

He scored that inning.

It happens.

Of all the things to bring up today, its that a guy got a hit and later scored a run and we are talking about the fact that he didn't run his hardest? Seriously, there has to be something better to bring up that was disappointing today.

No. It's a completely legitimate topic. And I find it surprising that someone named 'dougdirt' (implying to me, at least, someone that hustles---let me know if that's not the case) would take that approach. Frankly, if you were playing for me and had that attitude you'd be enjoying the game from the bench rather than the field. (shrug)

It doesn't matter to me whether it's Ken Griffey Jr. or Barry Bonds (good guy/bad guy) I want to see players busting their butt out of the box until the ball clears the fence. THEN, they can 'style' all they want. Call me old fashioned, I don't care---that's the way baseball should be played! Period.

Rem

reds44
04-09-2007, 12:28 AM
I was there. He got too much top hand in it to be a HR.
He thought it was gone. He did his little hop and everything.

reds44
04-09-2007, 12:31 AM
No. It's a completely legitimate topic. And I find it surprising that someone named 'dougdirt' (implying to me, at least, someone that hustles---let me know if that's not the case) would take that approach. Frankly, if you were playing for me and had that attitude you'd be enjoying the game from the bench rather than the field. (shrug)

It doesn't matter to me whether it's Ken Griffey Jr. or Barry Bonds (good guy/bad guy) I want to see players busting their butt out of the box until the ball clears the fence. THEN, they can 'style' all they want. Call me old fashioned, I don't care---that's the way baseball should be played! Period.

Rem
Give me talent over hustle 10 times out of 10.

I find it funny that this comes after he busted his old (butt) out of the box just a few days ago to beat out an infield single. Do you know how much guts it has to take for him to do that knowing his hamstring could explode, or he could dislocate his foot/toe or mess up his knee at any moment?

You can't knock Griffey for hustle. He's been sacrificing his body for his team since the day he arrived in the bigs.

BoydsOfSummer
04-09-2007, 12:34 AM
Yet, Roger Maris did it, Orlando Cepede did it, Rico Carty, Norm Cash, just to name a few. It's not a new thing and it's not anything that older players like Robin Roberts didn't notice when they played.

And Robin watched many of them. :laugh:

remdog
04-09-2007, 12:34 AM
Yet, Roger Maris did it, Orlando Cepede did it, Rico Carty, Norm Cash, just to name a few. It's not a new thing and it's not anything that older players like Robin Roberts didn't notice when they played.

Let me tell you, Mister History, that they did it very seldom and, if they did, they were usually eating dirt the next time up. Put this in your archives and save it as an eye-witness account for those days when you're old and gray and I'm long gone. :p:

Rem

George Foster
04-09-2007, 12:34 AM
lol this thread is great. He scored later in the inning, it happens. Nobody said a word when Dunn did it against the Cubs the other night. Players think they hit homers sometimes, when they don't.

The thing we should be talking about, is his willingness to go to left field this year. He already has 4 opposite filed hits already this year. Same thing goes with Dunn.

Great point, and both of them going the other way is good for the team and good for their personal stats. I don''t remember the play with Dunn, but if anybody does the homerun trot, before rounding 1st, they should get their chops verbally slapped. You run until you see that fat finger of the umpire go round and round like the Justin Timberlake video.

kaldaniels
04-09-2007, 12:35 AM
Give me talent over hustle 10 times out of 10.

I find it funny that this comes after he busted his old (butt) out of the box just a few days ago to beat out an infield single. Do you know how much guts it has to take for him to do that knowing his hamstring could explode, or he could dislocate his foot/toe or mess up his knee at any moment?

You can't knock Griffey for hustle. He's been sacrificing his body for his team since the day he arrived in the bigs.

Griffey has sacrificed alot for the Reds, no doubt. However, having watched him for the past 6 or 7 years, we all know he doesn't hustle out of the box all the time (or to be honest, he hustles out of the box less than most). Should he get a pass on that?

Razor Shines
04-09-2007, 12:35 AM
No. It's a completely legitimate topic. And I find it surprising that someone named 'dougdirt' (implying to me, at least, someone that hustles---let me know if that's not the case) would take that approach. Frankly, if you were playing for me and had that attitude you'd be enjoying the game from the bench rather than the field. (shrug)

It doesn't matter to me whether it's Ken Griffey Jr. or Barry Bonds (good guy/bad guy) I want to see players busting their butt out of the box until the ball clears the fence. THEN, they can 'style' all they want. Call me old fashioned, I don't care---that's the way baseball should be played! Period.

Rem
So do I, but that's not the way it is. Ortiz does it, Derek Lee does it, I think that Sammy Sosa may have done it once or twice in his career, and unless managers are actually going to start benching/fining these guys for doing their batter's box gawk it's something we're going to have to live with.

remdog
04-09-2007, 12:37 AM
Give me talent over hustle 10 times out of 10.

Talent and hustle are not mutually exclusive. And this situation and any other AB are not mutually exclusive either.

Rem

reds44
04-09-2007, 12:38 AM
Griffey has sacrificed alot for the Reds, no doubt. However, having watched him for the past 6 or 7 years, we all know he doesn't hustle out of the box all the time (or to be honest, he hustles out of the box less than most). Should he get a pass on that?
He busts out of the box when he needs too, like the other day when he had his infield single.

I'd rather have him trying to stay healthy, then busting out of the box on his plays he has no chance of beating out.

dougdirt
04-09-2007, 12:39 AM
No. It's a completely legitimate topic. And I find it surprising that someone named 'dougdirt' (implying to me, at least, someone that hustles---let me know if that's not the case) would take that approach. Frankly, if you were playing for me and had that attitude you'd be enjoying the game from the bench rather than the field. (shrug)

It doesn't matter to me whether it's Ken Griffey Jr. or Barry Bonds (good guy/bad guy) I want to see players busting their butt out of the box until the ball clears the fence. THEN, they can 'style' all they want. Call me old fashioned, I don't care---that's the way baseball should be played! Period.

Rem
My name has nothing to do with hustle. However, I always did hustle... of course I had to. Of course, I never sat the bench in my life. Reason? Probably because I was a better hitter than most. Now if you want to play someone who hustles all the time but isnt very good over someone who doesn't always hustle but is pretty good, you can feel free to do so.... but your team probably isnt going to be that good.

If Griffey, Bonds or even Dunn want to trot a little bit, they can do that. They have paid their respective dues to do that. If Edwin does it, its one thing. If Griffey or Dunn do it, its slightly different.

A lot of people always bring up the point that they were taught to play baseball a certain way.... well I hate to break it to the people that say that, but you werent good enough to get to the majors, so how you think professionals should play is pretty much a moot point. You hustle in little league because defense is really bad and any ball in play can turn into a triple. When you are 37 and your hamstring has been experimentally screwed to your leg so you can play baseball (still only athlete ever to come back from this surgery), you feel free to not go all out on every hit you get.

kaldaniels
04-09-2007, 12:39 AM
So do I, but that's not the way it is. Ortiz does it, Derek Lee does it, I think that Sammy Sosa may have done it once or twice in his career, and unless managers are actually going to start benching/fining these guys for doing their batter's box gawk it's something we're going to have to live with.

The little things count. Griffey had no idea what the outcome of the game would have been at the time. If this had cost the Reds the game would you still have the "oh shucks, it happens" attitude.

reds44
04-09-2007, 12:40 AM
Talent and hustle are not mutually exclusive. And this situation and any other AB are not mutually exclusive either.

Rem
You're telling Griffey flying into walls, diving for balls, etc. isn't hustling?

He's a 37 year old man who is hurt on the time. There are bigger concerns then him not busting out of the box on a getaway game vs. the Pirates in the first week of the season.

This is, IMO, people just piling on Griffey.

kaldaniels
04-09-2007, 12:40 AM
My name has nothing to do with hustle. However, I always did hustle... of course I had to. Of course, I never sat the bench in my life. Reason? Probably because I was a better hitter than most. Now if you want to play someone who hustles all the time but isnt very good over someone who doesn't always hustle but is pretty good, you can feel free to do so.... but your team probably isnt going to be that good.

If Griffey, Bonds or even Dunn want to trot a little bit, they can do that. They have paid their respective dues to do that. If Edwin does it, its one thing. If Griffey or Dunn do it, its slightly different.

A lot of people always bring up the point that they were taught to play baseball a certain way.... well I hate to break it to the people that say that, but you werent good enough to get to the majors, so how you think professionals should play is pretty much a moot point. You hustle in little league because defense is really bad and any ball in play can turn into a triple. When you are 37 and your hamstring has been experimentally screwed to your leg so you can play baseball (still only athlete ever to come back from this surgery), you feel free to not go all out on every hit you get.

DougD...I like you so don't take this wrong. However, this could have cost the Reds the game. If that had happened would you still have the "he's earned it" attitude?

kaldaniels
04-09-2007, 12:43 AM
This thread is getting me stirred up I'm sorry. Let me say this. I love the home run admiration, the home run trot, etc. However, thats when it is a no-doubter over the fence by 30 ft home run. Not on a clears the fence by 2 ft homerun. On those "over by 2 ft homeruns", cmon guys, act like you've been there before.

BoydsOfSummer
04-09-2007, 12:46 AM
"I give you a gift, and you stand there and show up my pitcher? Run, Dummy!"--Crash Davis

George Anderson
04-09-2007, 12:48 AM
He busts out of the box when he needs too, like the other day when he had his infield single.

I'd rather have him trying to stay healthy, then busting out of the box on his plays he has no chance of beating out.

I agree. Griffey is a special situation. His legs are fragile and can go at any time. We have seen the evidence that Griffey will hustle when need be to win the game. If the game is not on the line then no he wont hustle and wisely he shouldnt.

If another player doesnt hustle on the field an does not have the history of leg injuries that Griffey has then yes bench him or fine him.

People cry about the money wasted on Milton. Imagine having to eat the money we would have to pay Griffey next year if he reinjured his ACL this year and called it quits. Especially if he tore his ACL on something as stupid as running out a infield hit in a lopsided game.

Razor Shines
04-09-2007, 12:49 AM
The little things count. Griffey had no idea what the outcome of the game would have been at the time. If this had cost the Reds the game would you still have the "oh shucks, it happens" attitude.

I'm pretty sure I've never typed those words and that's not my attitude either. I said I don't like it and I didn't like that Jr. did it today. I also said that all home run hitters do it and because they do it they're going to get burned occasionally. Again I don't like it all, I would use it as an example to my son of something not to do, but if you watch MLB you'd better get used to it.

And I don't think it has anything to do with hustle. I think it has to do with show boatin'. I've seen the same thing happen to Eric Davis, who I don't think would ever be accused of not hustling, but he liked to show boat when he hit a home run. Honestly I think it's silly and it makes them look dumb. I think it's much cooler to put your head down and run the bases like you've hit a home run before and it's no big deal because it's what you're supposed to do.

reds44
04-09-2007, 12:50 AM
This thread is getting me stirred up I'm sorry. Let me say this. I love the home run admiration, the home run trot, etc. However, thats when it is a no-doubter over the fence by 30 ft home run. Not on a clears the fence by 2 ft homerun. On those "over by 2 ft homeruns", cmon guys, act like you've been there before.
Ok, this statement is always one of my pet peeves.

"Act like you've been there before."
This thread is all about hustle. People think Griffey should be playing the game like it's his last. If you should be playing the game like it's your last, then why should you act like you've been there before?

I don't care if your Scott Rolen and run around the bases really fast after you hit a homer, or your Sammy Sosa and you hop and do a studder step around first. It doesn't matter to me. You hit a homer.

The entire, Ryan Freel scrappy attitude is such a farse. Ryan Freel is scrappy because he has to be. You think if Ryan Freel was an all-star every year he would be running around like an idiot and diving for balls he can't get? No he wouldn't be.

Pete Rose is such a rare situation. He was a great hitter and always hustled, good for him. That same attitude is always why he is one of the biggest jokes in baseball now a days.

Griffey is one of the greatest players of all-time, and has sacrificed so much of his body that is a complete embarassment for anyone, let alone on a fan message board, tell him that he should hustle out of the box. People are acting like he is a lazy P.O.S who doesn't work for what he's got. He's gone through more rehab then probably anyone in the history of baseball. The fact that he did "hustle" and run into walls to make great defensive plays is probably a reason he is hurt so much now.

This entire thread is a joke, and yeah it touched a nerve.

You want to get on Austin Kearns for being fat and out of shape a few years back, go ahead. Don't bust on Griffey for not hustling.

kaldaniels
04-09-2007, 12:54 AM
Ok, this statement is always one of my pet peeves.

"Act like you've been there before."
This thread is all about hustle. People think Griffey should be playing the game like it's his last. If you should be playing the game like it's your last, then why should you act like you've been there before?

I don't care if your Scott Rolen and run around the bases really fast after you hit a homer, or your Sammy Sosa and you hop and do a studder step around first. It doesn't matter to me. You hit a homer.

The entire, Ryan Freel scrappy attitude is such a farse. Ryan Freel is scrappy because he has to be. You think if Ryan Freel was an all-star every year he would be running around like an idiot and diving for balls he can't get? No he wouldn't be.

Pete Rose is such a rare situation. He was a great hitter and always hustled, good for him. That same attitude is always why he is one of the biggest jokes in baseball now a days.

Griffey is one of the greatest players of all-time, and has sacrificed so much of his body that is a complete embarassment for anyone, let alone on a fan message board, tell him that he should hustle out of the box. People are acting like he is a lazy P.O.S who doesn't work for what he's got. He's gone through more rehab then probably anyone in the history of baseball. The fact that he did "hustle" and run into walls to make great defensive plays is probably a reason he is hurt so much now.

This entire thread is a joke, and yeah it touched a nerve.

I don't know how to put it then, I'm sorry. Like I said before, I love home run trots, I think it looks cool. However, it is embarrassing when you start a trot/admiration and it doesn't leave the yard. The thought that went through my mind when this insignificant play (as we'd later find out) happened was, c'mon Jr, you're better than that. Not, "you've earned it Jr."

remdog
04-09-2007, 12:54 AM
So do I, but that's not the way it is. Ortiz does it, Derek Lee does it, I think that Sammy Sosa may have done it once or twice in his career, and unless managers are actually going to start benching/fining these guys for doing their batter's box gawk it's something we're going to have to live with.

That doesn't mean it's the correct way to play or that I (or you or any other fan) have to like it and/or accept it.

That's not an slam on the fans; if anything, it's on the players. These guys are leading a charmed life, one that most of us on this board would give almost anything to experience, and I don't think it's asking too much of them to give it 100% all of the time. That's the way I approach my job so I don't think I'm out of line looking at it that way.

Rem

reds44
04-09-2007, 12:57 AM
I don't know how to put it then, I'm sorry. Like I said before, I love home run trots, I think it looks cool. However, it is embarrassing when you start a trot/admiration and it doesn't leave the yard. The thought that went through my mind when this insignificant play (as we'd later find out) happened was, c'mon Jr, you're better than that. Not, "you've earned it Jr."
You don't think Junior thought something to that extent? You think he didn't know he should be standing on 2nd base?

The point wasn't he earned not having to hustle. The point is, he earned the little mess ups of not hustling once in awhile.

I mean, didn't he miss most of September last year because he tried to rob a guy of a homer and got his foot stuck in the wall in right center field?

Ed Otten
04-09-2007, 12:57 AM
Let me tell you, Mister History, that they did it very seldom and, if they did, they were usually eating dirt the next time up. Put this in your archives and save it as an eye-witness account for those days when you're old and gray and I'm long gone. :p:

Rem


Well, maybe we should blame the pitchers for not hitting enough people after showing them up. :D

kaldaniels
04-09-2007, 12:58 AM
Ok, this statement is always one of my pet peeves.

"Act like you've been there before."
This thread is all about hustle. People think Griffey should be playing the game like it's his last. If you should be playing the game like it's your last, then why should you act like you've been there before?

I don't care if your Scott Rolen and run around the bases really fast after you hit a homer, or your Sammy Sosa and you hop and do a studder step around first. It doesn't matter to me. You hit a homer.

The entire, Ryan Freel scrappy attitude is such a farse. Ryan Freel is scrappy because he has to be. You think if Ryan Freel was an all-star every year he would be running around like an idiot and diving for balls he can't get? No he wouldn't be.

Pete Rose is such a rare situation. He was a great hitter and always hustled, good for him. That same attitude is always why he is one of the biggest jokes in baseball now a days.

Griffey is one of the greatest players of all-time, and has sacrificed so much of his body that is a complete embarassment for anyone, let alone on a fan message board, tell him that he should hustle out of the box. People are acting like he is a lazy P.O.S who doesn't work for what he's got. He's gone through more rehab then probably anyone in the history of baseball. The fact that he did "hustle" and run into walls to make great defensive plays is probably a reason he is hurt so much now.

This entire thread is a joke, and yeah it touched a nerve.

You want to get on Austin Kearns for being fat and out of shape a few years back, go ahead. Don't bust on Griffey for not hustling.

I never have and never will rip Jr. for not hustling out a weak infield grounder. But on a borderline HR/extra base hit, you'd better run hard. If I'm wrong for that attiutde, all apologies.

kaldaniels
04-09-2007, 01:00 AM
You don't think Junior thought something to that extent? You think he didn't know he should be standing on 2nd base?

The point wasn't he earned not having to hustle. The point is, he earned the little mess ups of not hustling once in awhile.

I mean, didn't he miss most of September last year because he tried to rob a guy of a homer and got his foot stuck in the wall in right center field?

And again, we just have different viewpoints. I don't think Pete Rose would agree with that either. And maybe I just have way too high expectations.

remdog
04-09-2007, 01:03 AM
Pete Rose is such a rare situation. He was a great hitter and always hustled, good for him. That same attitude is always why he is one of the biggest jokes in baseball now a days.

Huh? OK, ya' completely lost me with that one. (shrug)

Rem

reds44
04-09-2007, 01:03 AM
And again, we just have different viewpoints. I don't think Pete Rose would agree with that either. And maybe I just have way too high expectations.
I think Pete Rose has enough of his own flaws then to be pointing out Griffey not hustling out of the box on a play that he thought was a homer in an april game.

I don't think Griffey would agree with betting on baseball.

remdog
04-09-2007, 01:08 AM
Well, maybe we should blame the pitchers for not hitting enough people after showing them up. :D

And, I'm OK with that. :laugh:

Rem

kaldaniels
04-09-2007, 01:10 AM
I think Pete Rose has enough of his own flaws then to be pointing out Griffey not hustling out of the box on a play that he thought was a homer in an april game.

I don't think Griffey would agree with betting on baseball.

You're a great poster Reds44, so lets start from the top. The beginning of this post was, what are your thoughts on Griffey's play today. Here is mine. It was a blunder. It was embarrasing. Griffey realizes it no doubt. It was insignifiant in the grand scheme of things. Thats it. I think we agree on that. But to others, please don't think that is an acceptable play. Griffey has done so much for this team and sacrificed so much. But this can't happen on a regular basis,and Griffey's past accomplishments do not give him a right to trot on a ball hit off the wall.

Ed Otten
04-09-2007, 01:11 AM
The first pick in the 2022 amateur baseball draft was up last night sick, and when we finally went to sleep, the Easter Bunny came a 6:45am. Thank-you for pointing out my spelling error.:thumbup:

Griffey scoring is not the point. What if he didn't score? What if there were 2 out, with Griffey on 1st instead of 2nd base, and a single was hit? Could we talk about his hustle then? Maybe there was not a chance of him getting to 2nd anyway, but I would rather him hustle to 1st with a big turn, and force a throw to 2nd, or back to 1st. Forcing throws is good.


I totally understand; friends shouldn't let friends spell sleep deprived. :)

I understand your point, and had Griffey not scored, then it would have made a difference; and maybe if he's on second, the pitcher has to pitch differently, and then, Castro hits a homer... well, anyway, the game results in a different outcome. I can't argue with that.

But overall, I think Junior has been around long enough to make an experienced decision about when it is important to push the limits, and when it's better to take it easy and and live to hit another day. He's only got two legs, and they aren't working that well to begin with.

Sixth game of the world series, give it everything. Sixth game of the season, against the Pirates, perhaps hold back a little. Every little bit helps, but if he gets hurt stretching a single into a double today, we'll be frustrated for the rest of the year. And, furthermore, in that particular case, while the ball got away from the infielders a bit, if he get's thrown out (he ain't exactly Carl Lewis), we're just as frustrated for potentially running them out of an inning.

I'm all for hustle; but it's got to be in the right circumstance. I didn't see that circumstance as being worth the risk.

Ed

reds44
04-09-2007, 01:11 AM
You're a great poster Reds44, so lets start from the top. The beginning of this post was, what are your thoughts on Griffey's play today. Here is mine. It was a blunder. It was embarrasing. Griffey realizes it no doubt. It was insignifiant in the grand scheme of things. Thats it. I think we agree on that. But to others, please don't think that is an acceptable play. Griffey has done so much for this team and sacrificed so much. But this can't happen on a regular basis,and Griffey's past accomplishments do not give him a right to trot on a ball hit off the wall.
Agreed, it can't happen on a regular basis.

kaldaniels
04-09-2007, 01:13 AM
I totally understand; friends shouldn't let friends spell sleep deprived. :)

I understand your point, and had Griffey not scored, then it would have made a difference; and maybe if he's on second, the pitcher has to pitch differently, and then, Castro hits a homer... well, anyway, the game results in a different outcome. I can't argue with that.

But overall, I think Junior has been around long enough to make an experienced decision about when it is important to push the limits, and when it's better to take it easy and and live to hit another day. He's only got two legs, and they aren't working that well to begin with.

Sixth game of the world series, give it everything. Sixth game of the season, against the Pirates, perhaps hold back a little. Every little bit helps, but if he gets hurt stretching a single into a double today, we'll be frustrated for the rest of the year. And, furthermore, in that particular case, while the ball got away from the infielders a bit, if he get's thrown out (he ain't exactly Carl Lewis), we're just as frustrated for potentially running them out of an inning.

I'm all for hustle; but it's got to be in the right circumstance. I didn't see that circumstance as being worth the risk.

Ed

If I'm not mistaken, he turned a double into a single. There is a difference between that and not trying to turn a single into a double. If it is the consensus that the ball hit was a single, my whole basis in this discussion is flawed.

remdog
04-09-2007, 01:18 AM
I don't think Griffey would agree with betting on baseball.

I wasn't aware that Pete Rose checked in on this issue or that betting on baseball was the topic.

Rem

dougdirt
04-09-2007, 01:22 AM
DougD...I like you so don't take this wrong. However, this could have cost the Reds the game. If that had happened would you still have the "he's earned it" attitude?

Yeah, I would. With what Griffey means to this line up, two things come down to it with my thinking.... dont blast out of the box unless you absolutely must, and he has earned the right to not bust his butt down the line all the time.

I just think there are certain guys, upper echelon guys, who have the right to not have to do certain things like that. You know who busts it down the line every play? Guys who are ridiculously fast and guys who are only barely good enough to play because they do bust it like that on every single play. I don't think there is one star in baseball you will find who will bust it down to first base on a grounder to second base with the exception of a Jose Reyes type who may actually beat out the ball because of his ridiculous speed.

Ed Otten
04-09-2007, 01:23 AM
If I'm not mistaken, he turned a double into a single. There is a difference between that and not trying to turn a single into a double. If it is the consensus that the ball hit was a single, my whole basis in this discussion is flawed.


I wasn't paying too close during that part of the game, but I thought that the left fielder barehanded the ball off the wall pretty cleanly and got it into the infield fast, and Chris Welsh said that the ball got away from the infield, which might have given Junior the chance to make it to second; I took that to mean that if it hadn't gotten away from the infield, Junior would have been toast at second, trot or no trot. I don't really know, but I can certainly see it your way.

I think that one thing to consider is that a ball hit off the wall, at Great American Small Park, fielded with a barehand, and with a decent arm (not just in this case, but with any player), and given that Junior is pretty slow, a single may be all that could be expected. Again, I don't know.

Ed

kaldaniels
04-09-2007, 01:29 AM
I wasn't paying too close during that part of the game, but I thought that the left fielder barehanded the ball off the wall pretty cleanly and got it into the infield fast, and Chris Welsh said that the ball got away from the infield, which might have given Junior the chance to make it to second; I took that to mean that if it hadn't gotten away from the infield, Junior would have been toast at second, trot or no trot. I don't really know, but I can certainly see it your way.

I think that one thing to consider is that a ball hit off the wall, at Great American Small Park, fielded with a barehand, and with a decent arm (not just in this case, but with any player), and given that Junior is pretty slow, a single may be all that could be expected. Again, I don't know.

Ed

Reds.com has the link on the front page if you want to watch. I'm no expert either but watching it, I do think Jr. should have been on 2nd. It wasn't a rocket off the wall, rather a lofty shot off the wall. Take a look if you like.

kaldaniels
04-09-2007, 01:32 AM
Yeah, I would. With what Griffey means to this line up, two things come down to it with my thinking.... dont blast out of the box unless you absolutely must, and he has earned the right to not bust his butt down the line all the time.

I just think there are certain guys, upper echelon guys, who have the right to not have to do certain things like that. You know who busts it down the line every play? Guys who are ridiculously fast and guys who are only barely good enough to play because they do bust it like that on every single play. I don't think there is one star in baseball you will find who will bust it down to first base on a grounder to second base with the exception of a Jose Reyes type who may actually beat out the ball because of his ridiculous speed.

I see what you are saying and thats cool. However, if Jr. just runs lazily to first this thread never happens. It is the fact that he struts/trots. He didn't have to "bust his butt" but he did showboat for lack of a better word, and on that ball, that shouldn't have happened.

Ed Otten
04-09-2007, 01:58 AM
Reds.com has the link on the front page if you want to watch. I'm no expert either but watching it, I do think Jr. should have been on 2nd. It wasn't a rocket off the wall, rather a lofty shot off the wall. Take a look if you like.


Yeah, I think I probably would tend to agree with you, looking at the replay; the throw was pretty wide of second, and therefore there wasn't any fielder near second base. And he pretty much did think it was gone; I did too.

I guess while I don't like to excuse it, I'd rather focus on the other things that contibuted to our loss, like Milton and the relievers giving up runs.

And furthermore, I don't look at hustle as being more important or better than talent. I'll take talent over hustle, although if you don't have talent, you'd better have boatloads of hustle.

Start semi-off topic tangent:

Unfortunately, I think many people (and I'm not saying you do, but many) compare every player that plays for the Reds to Charlie Hustle, and while Rose was a fantastic player, Junior is not that kind of player. There aren't many left like Pete. However, I don't believe that Junior should be run out on a rail because he's a different kind of player; he's a fantastic player too. And he's the guy we got on our team now, not Pete Rose.

To me, this whole Griffey hustle thing is just a microcosm of the whole "I remember the Big Red Machine" philiosophy of many Reds fans.
Cincinnati (and I've lived here my whole life) is a great baseball town, but my old roommate was from Chicago (a Cubs fan) and we used to argue about baseball all the time, and he always said that during every spring training, Cincinnatians think this year's team is going to be the return of the BRM, and they get all excited because they go to the game expecting to see another Pete Rose (or God forbid, nine of them), and when they don't see it, that get all pissy and indignant and start booing and screaming about how their fantasy is destroyed. (And it's all Junior's fault, of course.) And my roommate would then laugh at the absurdity of the idea that the BRM would ever be back and the idea that Junior was cause of baseball perfection dying in Cincinnati. And he is right. The players today are different, and the BRM is gone. But don't try to convince a Reds fan about that in March. They don't realize it till August.

Of course, I would then ask my roommate when the last time the Cubs won the World Series, and that would stop the laughter.

Back to on topic:

Griffey should have probably gone to second, but he didn't, and while I don't like it, it doesn't mean that he won't ever hustle. It just means that he didn't today. And while past history is a good predictor of future behavior, it doesn't guarantee it.

Wow, I need some sleep.

757690
04-09-2007, 02:24 AM
I think we need to focus on the act that he keeps hitting the ball the other way, which will result in managers ditching the shift, which I think was the #1 reason why his batting ave has slipped so much during his Reds years.
I tihnk he will have his best year as a Red this year, if he is healthy all year.. I konw a very big if.

Crumbley
04-09-2007, 03:19 AM
Twelve and a half million dollars isn't nearly enough motivation to run.

mth123
04-09-2007, 06:20 AM
I see what you are saying and thats cool. However, if Jr. just runs lazily to first this thread never happens. It is the fact that he struts/trots. He didn't have to "bust his butt" but he did showboat for lack of a better word, and on that ball, that shouldn't have happened.

I think this is the point.

There is validity to saving his legs and the slow trot on a routine grounder or yesterday's act on a no doubter doesn't bother me. But this was a play in question and all he really needed to do was "run lazily." He just walked and hopped a little while he watched.

I'm guessing it was more a case of the ball not carrying on an unusually cold day and Griffey thinking it was a no doubter.

Rem is right though. I don't remember it being like this until the late 70s or so. Reggie Jackson was the first guy I noticed doing it like this and that wasn't all the time. Most of the time, guys just put their head down and ran.

Ltlabner
04-09-2007, 06:23 AM
A lot of people always bring up the point that they were taught to play baseball a certain way.... well I hate to break it to the people that say that, but you werent good enough to get to the majors, so how you think professionals should play is pretty much a moot point. You hustle in little league because defense is really bad and any ball in play can turn into a triple. When you are 37 and your hamstring has been experimentally screwed to your leg so you can play baseball (still only athlete ever to come back from this surgery), you feel free to not go all out on every hit you get.

:clap:

Ltlabner
04-09-2007, 06:27 AM
It was insignifiant in the grand scheme of things.

I agree totally. Well said.

Heath
04-09-2007, 06:58 AM
It was insignifiant in the grand scheme of things.

Yet it warrants 5 pages of wasted bandwidth.

If you all want to do the right thing, click on the "Donate" tab located in the northwest corner of this message board.

We thank you. Boss & GIK thank you. Then, you won't feel bad when 5 pages describing hustle plays get out of control.

alexad
04-09-2007, 08:02 AM
Didn't Griffey run out a hit to 3rd earlier in the series that kept the inning alive for a homerun by Conine or am I just dreaming that.......
He has been hustling and not complaining about anything including RF and batting 5th in the order.

Once again it does not matter what the man does, there is always somebody on here who wants to stir the crap or attempt to make him look bad.

The man drove in 2 runs with his hit. Does it really matter if he got a single or a double out of it????????? He thought it was out and yes they always teach you to run run run, but the man is hitting over .300 the first week of the season and has played in everygame, but that is just not good enough for everyone.

reds1869
04-09-2007, 08:10 AM
He should always hustle. He's being paid 12 million dollars. What you are saying is like saying that Milton should only try 3 innings of every start because he might get hurt.

And much like Milton, he would still receive a boatload of cash while injured. Would you rather see him DLd because he "hustled" out of the box? I generally feel that you should bolt out of the box, and Jr. certainly screwed up. But in the end he scored so let's get over it. This ballpark is very hard to read (particularly with this weekend's wind) and to be honest I thought it was gone too...a few yards to the right and it would have been.

hebroncougar
04-09-2007, 08:16 AM
I had a buddy of mine tell me that Griffey hasn't been tossing with the ballboy in RF. The CF-LF are tossing, and Griff's not even warming up. Anyone confirm this??? If so, I'd say a little bit of sulking going on. Again, I don't know if it's true. I was a little bit disappointed in the long single, but Edwin seemed to be the only one that read that right.

RANDY IN INDY
04-09-2007, 09:05 AM
Didn't Griffey run out a hit to 3rd earlier in the series that kept the inning alive for a homerun by Conine or am I just dreaming that.......
He has been hustling and not complaining about anything including RF and batting 5th in the order.

Once again it does not matter what the man does, there is always somebody on here who wants to stir the crap or attempt to make him look bad.

The man drove in 2 runs with his hit. Does it really matter if he got a single or a double out of it????????? He thought it was out and yes they always teach you to run run run, but the man is hitting over .300 the first week of the season and has played in everygame, but that is just not good enough for everyone.

:beerme: The game has changed. In some ways for the worse, in some ways better. Expectations are different. Ballplayers are different. Money is guaranteed. They aren't playing in fear of having their salaries cut next season. That in itself promoted a lot of hustle and was probably the biggest motivating factor. I like hustle, but it doesn't trump talent in today's game. Yeah, I wish that every player was the "perfect" player but they are not. Personally, I was happy to see Griff come through in a tough situation, and I was also glad to see him going the other way with the outside pitch instead of trying to pull it and hitting a ground ball into the teeth of the shift.

Roy Tucker
04-09-2007, 09:35 AM
I just think there are certain guys, upper echelon guys, who have the right to not have to do certain things like that.

I don't think they've earned the right. Instead, I think the economics of the game have gotten to where a star player has enough leverage so that management can't really say anything to them.

I don't expect every player to run every hit out 100%, especially guys with bad wheels like Junior. But I do expect them to run every ball out at 90%. Surely a professional athlete is capable of that.

And if there is any shred of doubt as to the outcome of the play, then I expect them to run it out hard at 100%. And any player that does not do that, then I think lesser of that player.

kaldaniels
04-09-2007, 09:47 AM
:beerme: The game has changed. In some ways for the worse, in some ways better. Expectations are different. Ballplayers are different. Money is guaranteed. They aren't playing in fear of having their salaries cut next season. That in itself promoted a lot of hustle and was probably the biggest motivating factor. I like hustle, but it doesn't trump talent in today's game. Yeah, I wish that every player was the "perfect" player but they are not. Personally, I was happy to see Griff come through in a tough situation, and I was also glad to see him going the other way with the outside pitch instead of trying to pull it and hitting a ground ball into the teeth of the shift.

I'll tell you what. If this thread had been entitled more accuratatly, i.e. "Griffey's botched homerun trot" this thread probably would have gone in a better direction. However the hustle word got thrown in there and boy is it a touchy one, hey, it's touchy to me so its not like I'm not singling anyone out. Again like I said it was a bonehead play. It is what it is. Would I like to see Griffey hustle alittle more overall, absolutely. Do I give him the benefit of the doubt on this usually with his history...yes. However a play like that isn't really excusable. Ever. Dunn did the same thing a few games ago and deserves just as much heat, so lets not forget this. I like Jr. I like Dunn. But again, please don't tolerate plays like this. I see no defense for admiring a ball that doesn't get out of the park.

RANDY IN INDY
04-09-2007, 09:54 AM
I'll tell you what. If this thread had been entitled more accuratatly, i.e. "Griffey's botched homerun trot" this thread probably would have gone in a better direction. However the hustle word got thrown in there and boy is it a touchy one, hey, it's touchy to me so its not like I'm not singling anyone out. Again like I said it was a bonehead play. It is what it is. Would I like to see Griffey hustle alittle more overall, absolutely. Do I give him the benefit of the doubt on this usually with his history...yes. However a play like that isn't really excusable. Ever. Dunn did the same thing a few games ago and deserves just as much heat, so lets not forget this. I like Jr. I like Dunn. But again, please don't tolerate plays like this. I see no defense for admiring a ball that doesn't get out of the park.

I just realized that your user name pretty much symbolizes the jist of this thread.:laugh: And that has nothing to do with you. Kal could rake, but I don't think anyone ever accused him of hustling too much.

KoryMac5
04-09-2007, 10:09 AM
I had a buddy of mine tell me that Griffey hasn't been tossing with the ballboy in RF. The CF-LF are tossing, and Griff's not even warming up. Anyone confirm this??? If so, I'd say a little bit of sulking going on. Again, I don't know if it's true. I was a little bit disappointed in the long single, but Edwin seemed to be the only one that read that right.

I had a buddy of mine, who was next to another person tell me, etc... and so on. Rumors and inuendo the heart of any message board.

registerthis
04-09-2007, 10:56 AM
If this were an isolated incident, no big deal. But this happens fairly often with Griffey. He either needs to learn to judge his fly balls better or get out of the box a little faster.

It really does. I can't tell you the number of times I've seen Junior do this.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-09-2007, 11:35 AM
Someone (Marty or Jeff) mentioned, at the time, that Griffey should have been on 2nd, but as he rounded first he put his head down and missed the bad throw into 2nd and that if he would have been watching the play in front of him, he probably could have easily made it to 2nd.

So, it wasn't necessarily lack of hustle as much as him probably being a little disappointed that the ball didn't carry over the wall, and he lost a little focus and put his head down, missing the play in front of him.

He later scored, so his slight baserunning mishap was a wash. People make mistakes all the time and sometimes they are bailed out and sometimes they are not. Had the next hitter grounded into a 6-4-3 DP and the Reds eventually lost by 1 run, I'm sure the mishap would have been a bigger issue, but as it turned out, it was not.

No biggie.

Ltlabner
04-09-2007, 11:36 AM
I had a buddy of mine tell me that Griffey hasn't been tossing with the ballboy in RF. The CF-LF are tossing, and Griff's not even warming up. Anyone confirm this??? If so, I'd say a little bit of sulking going on. Again, I don't know if it's true. I was a little bit disappointed in the long single, but Edwin seemed to be the only one that read that right.

Yep, he just sits down in the grass during balltoss time between innings. He crosses his arms and pouts the whole time. Once in a while he'll kick his legs up and down and stomp them in the ground. :rolleyes:

Rest assured, I was at 3 games last week. At all three I distinctly remember Jr throwing the ball with the ballboy in RF.

remdog
04-09-2007, 12:21 PM
Someone (Marty or Jeff) mentioned, at the time, that Griffey should have been on 2nd, but as he rounded first he put his head down and missed the bad throw into 2nd and that if he would have been watching the play in front of him, he probably could have easily made it to 2nd.

So, it wasn't necessarily lack of hustle as much as him probably being a little disappointed that the ball didn't carry over the wall, and he lost a little focus and put his head down, missing the play in front of him.

He later scored, so his slight baserunning mishap was a wash. People make mistakes all the time and sometimes they are bailed out and sometimes they are not. Had the next hitter grounded into a 6-4-3 DP and the Reds eventually lost by 1 run, I'm sure the mishap would have been a bigger issue, but as it turned out, it was not.

No biggie.

Wrong. Actually, what you are describing is Jr. compounding his mistake of not running out of the box by also not paying attention to what's going on out on the field.

Rem

Razor Shines
04-09-2007, 12:38 PM
Yep, he just sits down in the grass furing balltoss time between innings. He crosses his arms and pouts the whole time. Once in a while he'll kick his legs up and down and stomp them in the ground. :rolleyes:

Rest assured, I was at 3 games last week. At all three I distinctly remember Jr throwing the ball with the ballboy in RF.

No actually what you saw was him throwing rocks at Freel, because Freel has his position and he wants it back one way or another.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-09-2007, 12:46 PM
Wrong. Actually, what you are describing is Jr. compounding his mistake of not running out of the box by also not paying attention to what's going on out on the field.

Rem

Nothing wrong in what I said. I agree he should have been out of the box quicker, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I also agree that he should have been paying attention to the play in front of him.

So, I guess what you are referring to as "wrong" is my opinion that it wasn't a big deal. To that, I think we can agree to disagree.

remdog
04-09-2007, 12:53 PM
No, I'm referring to this as wrong: "So, it wasn't necessarily lack of hustle as much as him probably being a little disappointed..."

But, you're right, you're wrong on the other stuff too. :evil:

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Rem

sonny
04-09-2007, 12:54 PM
Nothing wrong in what I said. I agree he should have been out of the box quicker, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I also agree that he should have been paying attention to the play in front of him.

So, I guess what you are referring to as "wrong" is my opinion that it wasn't a big deal. To that, I think we can agree to disagree.

think of it as a learning opportunity

westofyou
04-09-2007, 01:03 PM
http://www.cincypost.com/sports/2000/marty082400.html


Griffey upset by
Brennaman's on-air criticism

By Tony Jackson, Post staff reporter

Reds center fielder Ken Griffey Jr. and radio broadcaster Marty Brennaman engaged in a heated discussion in the clubhouse before Wednesday night's 4-3 loss to the Philadelphia Phillies.

The verbal sparring match, which took place in front of several local reporters, began when Griffey, on his way to the field for batting practice, said something to Brennaman about Brennaman's on-air criticism Sunday of the center fielder's failure to run hard to first base on a single that might have otherwise been a double.

Griffey told Brennaman that his season-long tendency not to run hard to first base at certain times was because of pain in a hamstring that has bothered him on occasion. Brennaman didn't accept that explanation, saying Griffey should have told him about the hamstring. Griffey responded by saying Brennaman never asked.

''The next time you don't run hard to first base, I'll point it out again,'' Brennaman said.

Brennaman, who was this year's recipient of the Ford C. Frick Award for broadcasting excellence from the Baseball Hall of Fame, told Griffey at one point, ''I was here before you came here, and I'll be here after you're gone.''

Griffey eventually left the clubhouse, but returned a few minutes later. On his way back out to the field, he stopped again, this time to dispute Brennaman's comment. Griffey noted that Brennaman became the Reds' play-by-play voice in 1974 and that Griffey's father, Reds bench coach Ken Griffey Sr., had joined the club in 1973, at which time Griffey Jr. became a regular visitor to the clubhouse.

Neither Brennaman nor Griffey would comment on the matter afterward.

''I've got nothing to say,'' Brennaman said. ''It's over.''

''What did he say?'' Griffey asked, at which point he was told that Brennaman had declined comment. ''Well then, let's just leave it at that, then.''

BRM
04-09-2007, 01:08 PM
''I was here before you came here, and I'll be here after you're gone.''


Has Marty used that line before to other players?

westofyou
04-09-2007, 01:10 PM
Has Marty used that line before to other players?

http://www.baseballcardproject.com/Score/Select/1993/348.jpg

Razor Shines
04-09-2007, 01:11 PM
Griffey noted that Brennaman became the Reds' play-by-play voice in 1974 and that Griffey's father, Reds bench coach Ken Griffey Sr., had joined the club in 1973, at which time Griffey Jr. became a regular visitor to the clubhouse.

And my dad could beat up your dad.

forfreelin04
04-09-2007, 01:12 PM
Personally, I think Griff is more at fault for his waste of atbats. The first pitch pop outs have to go. He is much too good of hitter to hurt the team by swinging on the first pitch like that.

BRM
04-09-2007, 01:12 PM
Thanks woy. Willie Greene was the one I was thinking was privileged enough to hear that line.

Razor Shines
04-09-2007, 01:13 PM
Personally, I think Griff is more at fault for his waste of atbats. The first pitch pop outs have to go. He is much too good of hitter to hurt the team by swinging on the first pitch like that.

He does lead the team in walks and pitches seen. So you're right the most patient guy on our team so far needs to be more patient.

coachw513
04-09-2007, 01:26 PM
What a great thread :rolleyes:

Seriously though...I'm a Griffey supporter, but he should've been at 2nd base...it was a mistake on his part...and the fact he scored later doesn't change that fact...further, saying he shouldn't go hard because of risk of injury simply isn't adequate here...if he simply broke out of the box in a comfortable run, he pulls into 2nd without having to over-exert himself...he just made an error in judgement...

But I don't think it's an indictment of his overall effort and desire to win...it was a mistake...much like DRoss made a mistake, RFreel made a mistake, etc, etc, etc...

But it is worthy of being brought up...that also doesn't take away from the fact I'm thrilled with his approach at the plate despite a slow start in production and the fact he's quietly going about his business in RF and not "ego trippin'" all over the place...he's a big reason we are off to a good start for both of these reasons...

kaldaniels
04-09-2007, 01:29 PM
He does lead the team in walks and pitches seen. So you're right the most patient guy on our team so far needs to be more patient.

Last year there were 10 players on the Reds with 100 AB that saw more pitches per PA than Jr. So, to make a remark like this is either foolish, or is putting faith in the fact that because of his performance in the first 6 games Jr. has dramatically changed his approach. The argument above just doesn't have legs. Jr. has been good overall this year...going the other way is a huge plus. But lets not let 6 games worth of stats decide how patient a hitter is.

Crosley68
04-09-2007, 01:38 PM
I try my very best not to be critical of players. They are capable of what I am not. HOWEVER, in this instance and in the play the other day when Dunn jogged for his off the top of the wall single, there is no excuse for a "professional" doing what they did. I always thought the "right way to play the game" was to run like you are stretching a single into is a double until you decide it isnt.

How can any of you defend this behavior with the excuse "they thought it was out"? Unprofessional is what it is.

UGADaddy
04-09-2007, 01:45 PM
I figured someone would ask about this. He thought it was out, he did his HR walk, then realized it was off the wall, sprinted, but realized it was too late. I dont blame him for doing his signature HR walk, he thought it was out, as did a lot of people, including me.

I agree with Crosley. Who cares if he or you, larkin, thought the ball was gone? Who cares if he thought it was an out? We're paying him millions of dollars (millions of dollars he's not worth) to go out and play a game. You learn this when you're in tee-ball: when you hit the ball, you RUN! I can't wait til Hamilton gets rid of his illness and gets a shot. I hope he takes Griffey's place (though I know that due to salary differences and Narron's love for the "greatest centerfielder of all time," he won't) and KGJ gets turned into a role player on the bench.

Razor Shines
04-09-2007, 01:49 PM
Last year there were 10 players on the Reds with 100 AB that saw more pitches per PA than Jr. So, to make a remark like this is either foolish, or is putting faith in the fact that because of his performance in the first 6 games Jr. has dramatically changed his approach. The argument above just doesn't have legs. Jr. has been good overall this year...going the other way is a huge plus. But lets not let 6 games worth of stats decide how patient a hitter is.

Actually last year was the fluke. It was by far his worst OBP season and his lowest pitches per plate appearence season. So lets not let 472 of 9569 PAs decide how patient a hitter is. From what I am seeing in the first 6 games is that hopefully Jr. is returning to career norms and reverting from ONE bad year.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-09-2007, 01:52 PM
No, I'm referring to this as wrong: "So, it wasn't necessarily lack of hustle as much as him probably being a little disappointed..."

But, you're right, you're wrong on the other stuff too. :evil:

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Rem

Lack of hustle is not sprinting out of the box no matter what and 99% of all players are guilty of this when they think they have gotten a hold of one. I'm not saying it's right, but it is what it is. So, we can agree on this.

I'm just saying that lack of hustle isn't what necessarily kept him from 2nd base. Lack of focus was. Whether he sprints out of the box or not, he still hung his head and it kept him from seeing the play in front of him. Missing the opportunity on the bad throw (by not paying attention) is what ultimately kept him from getting two, not solely lack of hustle.

The rest is splitting hairs.

Razor Shines
04-09-2007, 01:53 PM
I agree with Crosley. Who cares if he or you, larkin, thought the ball was gone? Who cares if he thought it was an out? We're paying him millions of dollars (millions of dollars he's not worth) to go out and play a game. You learn this when you're in tee-ball: when you hit the ball, you RUN! I can't wait til Hamilton gets rid of his illness and gets a shot. I hope he takes Griffey's place (though I know that due to salary differences and Narron's love for the "greatest centerfielder of all time," he won't) and KGJ gets turned into a role player on the bench.

You're right because other teams fear Josh Hamilton and he will help Dunn get pitches to hit. I like Hamilton but this line up needs Jr. in it. I know you don't like to hear that, but it does.

hebroncougar
04-09-2007, 01:53 PM
Yep, he just sits down in the grass during balltoss time between innings. He crosses his arms and pouts the whole time. Once in a while he'll kick his legs up and down and stomp them in the ground. :rolleyes:

Rest assured, I was at 3 games last week. At all three I distinctly remember Jr throwing the ball with the ballboy in RF.


Hey..............I was asking. I didn't know, and that's why I posed it as a question.

KittyDuran
04-09-2007, 01:58 PM
I had a buddy of mine tell me that Griffey hasn't been tossing with the ballboy in RF. The CF-LF are tossing, and Griff's not even warming up. Anyone confirm this??? If so, I'd say a little bit of sulking going on. Again, I don't know if it's true. I was a little bit disappointed in the long single, but Edwin seemed to be the only one that read that right.I was there for 5 games and he warmed up each game and tossed the ball with the ballboy.

dougdirt
04-09-2007, 02:01 PM
Marty Brennamen gives me 1 more reason not to like him.

This thread has gone on about 7 pages to long.

George Anderson
04-09-2007, 02:05 PM
Marty Brennamen gives me 1 more reason not to like him.

This thread has gone on about 7 pages to long.

But one thing for sure, Id rather have posts about whether Griffey hustles or not than posts as to why the Reds are 0-6.

VR
04-09-2007, 02:08 PM
wow, that was a good read.

The home run stylin' is really all about showing how cool you are, and Griff's had the exact 100% opposite effect. Hopefully the embarrasment of the situation will get him to focus on only watching his tape measure shots....cause that's really cool.

I love it when Adam stands and watches a towering shot go into the deep seats in right. I think he looks like a loser when he hits one that barely clears the fence.

To me, hustle had nothing to do with this one......it was like watching your buddy show off by asking the hottest chick to dance, only not realizing that his fly is down and he has a wet spot.

dougdirt
04-09-2007, 02:08 PM
But one thing for sure, Id rather have posts about whether Griffey hustles or not than posts as to why the Reds are 0-6.

True.... but both are pretty much posts I would rather not have to read. I mean people are seriously complaining about a HIT that a guy got. You know, maybe it would be different if it was a grounder into the hole that he trotted down to first one and the SS threw it in the dirt and the first baseman bobbled it a little and still had time to pick it up and tag the base.... but this is complaining about a hit.

We all have way better things to discuss than this... I mean our team is in first place, we have had fairly good pitching so far with really just 1 bad game by the pitchers.

coachw513
04-09-2007, 02:25 PM
We all have way better things to discuss than this... I mean our team is in first place, we have had fairly good pitching so far with really just 1 bad game by the pitchers.

Yeah, Harang really did struggle...

Oh you mean Milton... :evil:

dougdirt
04-09-2007, 02:35 PM
Oh you mean Milton... :evil:

The bullpen didn't fair so well that game either....

markymark69
04-09-2007, 02:40 PM
The other day he beat out an infield single. He hustles when needed.

I am glad somebody brought that up. Part of me, agrees with the group that says Griffey should have been on second base. But, most, if not all of those people slam Griffey constantly for lack of hustle or not giving "false" hustle, but then fail to mention when he does hustle or makes a play, such as Friday night.

And besides, it did work out, because he eventually scored. Had he not, then that's another story, perhaps, but he did.

Again, thanks TeamSelig, for bringing that up.

remdog
04-09-2007, 02:46 PM
True.... but both are pretty much posts I would rather not have to read.

You don't have read it.

Rem

kaldaniels
04-09-2007, 02:49 PM
I am glad somebody brought that up. Part of me, agrees with the group that says Griffey should have been on second base. But, most, if not all of those people slam Griffey constantly for lack of hustle or not giving "false" hustle, but then fail to mention when he does hustle or makes a play, such as Friday night.

And besides, it did work out, because he eventually scored. Had he not, then that's another story, perhaps, but he did.

Again, thanks TeamSelig, for bringing that up.

Again however, the play in mention was a failed attempt of showboating, not really lack of hustle. Griffey doesn't have to bust out like Freel to end up at second base. He just needs to go....not walk and watch. There is a whole other debate regarding hustle, but this play was just embarrasing. I've yet to see a good counterpoint stating that Griffey should be able to admire a shot off the wall. Several good points regarding why he does not need to hustle, but none about admiration.

remdog
04-09-2007, 02:53 PM
I mean people are seriously complaining about a HIT that a guy got.

No one is complaining about a hit. They are complaining about a lack of effort during that play and they are perfectly correct in doing so.

What I see in this thread is that a lot of people are making excusses and accepting less than the best effort from someone at their job. Those are usually the same people that accept less than the best from themselves---which is OK with me but don't expect me to be that way.

I've been one of Jr.'s biggest fans and I've always been supportative of him. To me, he is the face of the Reds----and that's even more reason to hold him to a high standard.

Rem

hebroncougar
04-09-2007, 03:09 PM
I was there for 5 games and he warmed up each game and tossed the ball with the ballboy.

Thank you..........I REALLY didn't know. I think that Griff is the guy that most on the team would follow, if he wants to be that kind of leader. It would be great if he were able to play 140+ games, and lead this team to an NL Central crown.

Dracodave
04-09-2007, 03:16 PM
That's cool, dave. I thought you meant that. Just wanted to make sure others didn't think Adam's head wasn't in the game!

Its cool, I just wanted to make sure people didnt think I meant Dunn slacked.

sorry :p: :p:

Puffy
04-09-2007, 03:19 PM
Last year there were 10 players on the Reds with 100 AB that saw more pitches per PA than Jr. So, to make a remark like this is either foolish, or is putting faith in the fact that because of his performance in the first 6 games Jr. has dramatically changed his approach. The argument above just doesn't have legs. Jr. has been good overall this year...going the other way is a huge plus. But lets not let 6 games worth of stats decide how patient a hitter is.

And you are using one year out of 17 years in the big leagues to argue your point. One year.

So who is more foolish - the person who uses 6 games backed by 16 years of data. Or the person who uses one year?

AdamDunn
04-09-2007, 03:21 PM
I don't know if anyone's said this... but given his injury record, I'm kind of glad he didn't run :D

Dracodave
04-09-2007, 03:21 PM
And you are using one year out of 17 years in the big leagues to argue your point. One year.

So who is more foolish - the person who uses 6 games backed by 16 years of data. Or the person who uses one year?

Jerry Narron...Oh wait, that wasn't your point..Sorry Puffy. :laugh:

toledodan
04-09-2007, 03:24 PM
i know we harp on his hustle but after 17 seasons he's not going to change now. right now i'm just happy he's in right field and batting lower in the order. the fact he's even geting on base is a bonus considering alot of us though he would be on the DL to start the season.

TeamBoone
04-09-2007, 03:25 PM
According to KGJr, he did NOT think it was a homerun:


Everyone but Griffey thought his seventh-inning single was going to be his first home run of the season.

"I think everyone on the bench thought it had a chance to get out," Narron said.

Griffey, didn't. He knew he didn't quite elevate it enough to get over the wall.

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070409/SPT05/704090331/1035/SPT

kaldaniels
04-09-2007, 03:25 PM
And you are using one year out of 17 years in the big leagues to argue your point. One year.

So who is more foolish - the person who uses 6 games backed by 16 years of data. Or the person who uses one year?

Umm the person who uses 6 games to imply Griffey is the most patient hitter on the team. Lets go back to 2005....7 hitters w/over 100 AB saw more pitches per PA than Griffey. Why would you rip what I said...I was just stating the obvious...Griffey is not the most patient hitter on the team. Are you serious???

remdog
04-09-2007, 03:31 PM
According to KGJr, he did NOT think it was a homerun:



http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070409/SPT05/704090331/1035/SPT

I read that in the Enquirer this morning. To me, that was all the more reason he should have run from the crack of the bat. I didn't bring it up 'cause I didn't want it to look like I'm dumping on the guy. However, now that some one else has mentioned it, it's fair game IMO.

Rem

TeamBoone
04-09-2007, 03:34 PM
Also, if I remember correctly, a week or so after Marty and Jr's blowup a few years ago because of Marty's critical remarks, the Reds announced that Jr's knee had been bothering him and he was instructed by management not to run hard if he could avoid it. Soon after he underwent the surgery to have the tendons screwed into place. (I can't remember all the details now).

Anyway, Marty was forced to eat a bit of crow after that one. Obviously, Reds management didn't/doesn't tell him everything...

Razor Shines
04-09-2007, 04:26 PM
Umm the person who uses 6 games to imply Griffey is the most patient hitter on the team. Lets go back to 2005....7 hitters w/over 100 AB saw more pitches per PA than Griffey. Why would you rip what I said...I was just stating the obvious...Griffey is not the most patient hitter on the team. Are you serious???

The person I was responding to said that the issue needs to be that JR. is popping up on the first pitch too many times and isn't being patient. And so far this season he has been the most patient hitter on the team, so saying that we need to be talking about Griffey not being patient was kind of silly, I thought.

I didn't mean to imply that he'll be the most patient hitter on the team all season, because he most likely won't. And I can see where you thought that I meant that, but what I meant was that so far this season hasn't been abnormal for Jr. Last year was. And I am pretty sure that before he got hurt last year he was already turning it around.

KoryMac5
04-09-2007, 04:30 PM
I remember hearing that the reason JR gets hurt all the time was because he didn't know how to let up. Now he is letting up so he can try and stay healthy and people are all over him because of lack of hustle. Bottom line is I would rather have JR single and drive in two runs than have him leg out a double and be on the DL for a big stint of time.

Always Red
04-09-2007, 04:45 PM
I remember hearing that the reason JR gets hurt all the time was because he didn't know how to let up. Now he is letting up so he can try and stay healthy and people are all over him because of lack of hustle. Bottom line is I would rather have JR single and drive in two runs than have him leg out a double and be on the DL for a big stint of time.

Really, I don't think Junior would have been injured if would have just run a little bit there; not a sprint, or busting it out, but just an 80% effort run.

He thought he hit it out, he literally strolled to first, and got caught surprised when it hit the wall. If he would not have scored, and the Reds lose by one, it would have been a big deal. He wound up scoring, so he was off the hook.

I love Jr; he's one of the very best I've ever seen. I am very sad that his Reds career has been marred by so many injuries; I was so excited when he came here from Seattle. Something like this episode gives those who will a reason to question his attitude. Those who question his effort in this case have a legitimate question, IMO.

Personally, I think it was dumb of him to assume it was out. That's all. I think it was just one poor decision, not a symptom of something more sinister.

BTW, if JR can't run to 2nd base for fear of reinjuring himself (as mentioned above), should he really be playing RF? ;)

KoryMac5
04-09-2007, 04:56 PM
Really, I don't think Junior would have been injured if would have just run a little bit there; not a sprint, or busting it out, but just an 80% effort run.

He thought he hit it out, he literally strolled to first, and got caught surprised when it hit the wall. If he would not have scored, and the Reds lose by one, it would have been a big deal. He wound up scoring, so he was off the hook.

I love Jr; he's one of the very best I've ever seen. I am very sad that his Reds career has been marred by so many injuries; I was so excited when he came here from Seattle. Something like this episode gives those who will a reason to question his attitude. Those who question his effort in this case have a legitimate question, IMO.

Personally, I think it was dumb of him to assume it was out. That's all. I think it was just one poor decision, not a symptom of something more sinister.

BTW, if JR can't run to 2nd base for fear of reinjuring himself (as mentioned above), should he really be playing RF? ;)

Everyone but Griffey thought his seventh-inning single was going to be his first home run of the season.

"I think everyone on the bench thought it had a chance to get out," Narron said.

Griffey, didn't. He knew he didn't quite elevate it enough to get over the wall.

As stated several posts earlier. Unfortunately I beg to differ on the matter I just don't think with the cold and his history of leg problems he should be trying to leg out doubles. He knows his body better than all of us. He knows if he was capable of getting to second or not and I am sure magmt has told Griffey to take it easy out there for the first few weeks. Remeber he did miss a lot of ST.

penantboundreds
04-09-2007, 05:04 PM
He has been hustling his a%^ off this year. Tagging on shallow fly balls and hustling out balls to keep innings alive (which lead to our big inning -- his infield hit)

Hubba
04-09-2007, 05:20 PM
Everyone but Griffey thought his seventh-inning single was going to be his first home run of the season.

"I think everyone on the bench thought it had a chance to get out," Narron said.

Griffey, didn't. He knew he didn't quite elevate it enough to get over the wall.

As stated several posts earlier. Unfortunately I beg to differ on the matter I just don't think with the cold and his history of leg problems he should be trying to leg out doubles. He knows his body better than all of us. He knows if he was capable of getting to second or not and I am sure magmt has told Griffey to take it easy out there for the first few weeks. Remeber he did miss a lot of ST.

I'm a big Griffey fan but if as you say with his body he can't run out a double he sure as hell shouldn't be playing the outfield.
But we know the truth, he thought it was a homer.

Always Red
04-09-2007, 05:23 PM
Remeber he did miss a lot of ST.

wasn't that because of his hand??

I don't think there's any defense for this, really. It wasn't a laser shot off the wall like Dunn's on Wednesday night, it was a fly ball. He should have been on 2nd. It's very clear. The TV guys mentioned it, and then I read here on RZ that JB and Marty mentioned it on the radio, too.

The 5 replays that I saw clearly show that he gave it the old home run skip-hop down the first base line, and then looked surprised that it didn't go out. If you want to continue to make excuses for this, that's your business.

It wasn't a big deal, ultimately, because he wound up scoring. And I certainly don't expect Jr to throw his body around the ballpark in some weird Ryan Freel/Pete Rose/Enos Slaughter imitation. Someone pointed out before that he legged the infield single out the other night, and they're right, he did.

Like I said, I do not have any problem with Jr's effort, in general. I think he made a decision in his head that it was gone, and then got surprised when it hit the wall. One poor decision. And frankly, him saying to the press that he knew it wasn't out makes it look even worse.

Because really, if a guy can't run at all, he has no business playing National League baseball. Because it sounds to me like you're saying that he can't run, and he shouldn't run. If that's true, that makes him a DH in my book. I don't think Jr's there yet; I think he has another year or two left in him, in RF. If he is a DH, then he should not be playing on this team, in this league. :dunno:

kaldaniels
04-09-2007, 05:29 PM
This reminds me of the scene in Major League where Willie Mays Hayes makes a circus catch. All that needs to be said is "nice hit Jr., don't ever do that again."

Natty Redlocks
04-09-2007, 06:45 PM
He reminded me of Sammy Sosa. For 12 mil a year, you run to first base.

What, I'm not allowed to call him a Prince Of Seattle? Just kidding; I apologize.

dougdirt
04-09-2007, 06:48 PM
He reminded me of Sammy Sosa. For 12 mil a year, you run to first base you POS.

Arent we a bit touchy? If he runs to first base and blows his hammy, then is he a POS for not staying in shape? For being unable to play yet again? He is payed to stay healthy and play baseball. He is doing that so far.

RANDY IN INDY
04-09-2007, 06:52 PM
From all accounts, Junior is a real hard worker and I have no problem, most times, with his effort. You don't come back from all those injuries without putting in a lot of hard work.

TeamBoone
04-09-2007, 07:07 PM
I'm a big Griffey fan but if as you say with his body he can't run out a double he sure as hell shouldn't be playing the outfield.
But we know the truth, he thought it was a homer.

Speak for yourself. Jr may be many things in your eyes, but I don't think he's a liar, so please don't include all of us in your "we".

In truth, I think he thought it would be caught.


He reminded me of Sammy Sosa. For 12 mil a year, you run to first base you POS.

Money isn't everything. His big contract was inked before his body betrayed him. I suppose you think he should take the chance of injuring himself even worse (if that's possible) just because he's making a lot of money.

IMHO, that just nonsense.

KoryMac5
04-09-2007, 07:08 PM
Because really, if a guy can't run at all, he has no business playing National League baseball. Because it sounds to me like you're saying that he can't run, and he shouldn't run. If that's true, that makes him a DH in my book. I don't think Jr's there yet; I think he has another year or two left in him, in RF. If he is a DH, then he should not be playing on this team, in this league.

Not my intent at all read my posts I am saying Griffey is playing in 4th gear this year instead of 5th. I think he has pushed too hard in the past leading to injuries and this year he has toned it down a notch so he can play more than his usual 100 games or so. I take a man at his word if he didn't think the ball was out who am I to say otherwise.

Natty Redlocks
04-09-2007, 07:11 PM
Arent we a bit touchy? If he runs to first base and blows his hammy, then is he a POS for not staying in shape? For being unable to play yet again? He is payed to stay healthy and play baseball. He is doing that so far.

I suppose we are a bit touchy. Nobody brings out the worst in me like Junior. Here's hoping he makes it to the end of the month.

westofyou
04-09-2007, 07:35 PM
I suppose we are a bit touchy. Nobody brings out the worst in me like Junior. Here's hoping he makes it to the end of the month.

Right, because everyone knows the fragility of the human body always is what makes a guy a POS or not.

Hubba
04-09-2007, 08:46 PM
[quote=TeamBoone;1292488]Speak for yourself. Jr may be many things in your eyes, but I don't think he's a liar, so please don't include all of us in your "we".

In truth, I think he thought it would be caught.



Oh I forgot about you,You must forgive me,

Razor Shines
04-09-2007, 08:48 PM
TeamBoone;1292488]Speak for yourself. Jr may be many things in your eyes, but I don't think he's a liar, so please don't include all of us in your "we".

In truth, I think he thought it would be caught.



Oh I forgot about you,You must forgive me,

I agree with TB, I think he thought it was going to be caught. And I don't think he's a liar either.

RFS62
04-09-2007, 08:56 PM
He knows he should have run. That doesn't make him a bad player or malcontent. He just made a mistake.

With all the injuries he's had and difficult rehabs he's endured, I usually cut him some slack. This doesn't seem to me to be about injuries, although I could be wrong. To me, it just looks like he misjudged it and thought he had a dinger, no matter what he said to the press.

He's one of my all time favorite players. But that doesn't mean he's perfect, nor is anyone.

I don't like it when ANY player doesn't hustle.

What do you think his dad would say to him about it if asked?

11larkin11
04-09-2007, 10:43 PM
Griffey just tagged and scored on a ball to the second baseman. Dont tell me he doesnt hustle.

RFS62
04-09-2007, 10:43 PM
Looks like Junior read this thread.

Nice hustle on that sac popup

kheidg-
04-09-2007, 10:44 PM
I'm sure I won't be the only one to post this... but what about the hustle on Griffeys run scored tonight??

ED44
04-09-2007, 10:44 PM
Looks like Jr must have read this thread.

11larkin11
04-09-2007, 10:45 PM
Haha, we all thought the same thing...

WMR
04-09-2007, 10:46 PM
Griffey stares this thread down and says, "Now what?"

Natty Redlocks
04-09-2007, 11:08 PM
He probably is just trying to stay healthy, and not running unless he really needs to. I have to admit, I didn't think he'd score on that, and I was wrong.

remdog
04-10-2007, 05:56 AM
As I said during the game thread, nice play by Jr.

If you know anything about baseball you could see that play coming as soon as the ball went up. With a 2nd baseman (usually not the best arm) catching the ball with his back to the infield this is a play you have to anticipate if you have any speed at all on 3rd base. Throw in the RFer almost coliding with Hudson and you've got a pretty decent chance to score.

On the one hand Hudson screwed up the play by not letting the RFer take the ball facing the plate in shallow RF. On the other hand, Callaspo is a 2nd baseman himself and, IIRC, was only playing his 2nd game in the OF. He definately looked shaky on the play.

Glad to see Jr. was paying attention.

Rem

Always Red
04-10-2007, 06:46 AM
I'm sure I won't be the only one to post this... but what about the hustle on Griffeys run scored tonight??

great hustle by Junior on that play, no question. He was moving pretty well!

Like I said yesterday on this thread, it was one poor decision. Not a trend, not consistent with past history, but one mental mistake.

I'm in full agreement with what RFS62 said:

He knows he should have run. That doesn't make him a bad player or malcontent. He just made a mistake.

"Hustle" is very rarely all or none. "Hustle" is a decision each player makes nearly every time he steps on the field. Junior does not have a history of dogging it out there, he has nearly always given a full effort.

I don't get the Junior bashers, who criticize and bash Griffey at every turn. I'm not one of them, never have been, and never will be. On the other hand, I also do not understand the folks who defend Junior from every bit of criticism, even that which is rightly earned. No ballplayer is perfect, nor is he expected to be. Junior has terrible problems with his legs, no question. Junior is also more valuable to this team on the field, rather than on the DL; this year, more than ever, the Reds need his bat. And they also need his veteran leadership. They don't need "The Kid." They need him to be a grizzled, steely-eyed vet. One who demands full effort from others and will accept no mental mistakes from his teammates. This team really needs veteran leadership, and Junior is the most logical person to provide it.

But those here (and there are some) who see no drop off in his performance, who think he should be batting third, playing CF, are blind to reality. Some of those same folks will allow no criticism at all of the man's game, and defend him at all cost, at all times. While I admire their loyalty, they are clearly wrong. He does make the occasional mental error, and he is clearly not the same ballplayer he has been in the past, mostly due to so much surgery on his wheels. It's ok to point that out, and it doesn't mean one is a basher or hater to do so.

Ken Griffey, Jr. has made less physical and mental mistakes on the field of play than most other men who have played the game at the highest level. He is a sure-fire, first ballot Hall of Famer, there is no question in my mind.

I've been very impressed with Junior's approach at the plate this year thus far. I love how he's hitting the ball where it's pitched, hitting the ball to RF. Here's to hoping for a great year for Griffey this year; hopefully his best year in a Reds uni. :beerme:

Ltlabner
04-10-2007, 06:57 AM
But those here (and there are some) who see no drop off in his performance, who think he should be batting third, playing CF, are blind to reality. Some of those same folks will allow no criticism at all of the man's game, and defend him at all cost, at all times. While I admire their loyalty, they are clearly wrong. He does make the occasional mental error, and he is clearly not the same ballplayer he has been in the past, mostly due to so much surgery on his wheels. It's ok to point that out, and it doesn't mean one is a basher or hater to do so.

I don't think it's a matter of his biggest fans defending him at all costs. It's more of a matter that some of us think this "issue" is totally irrlevant and isn't worth getting your knickers in a bunch over. There are other flaws in Jr's play that would be far more interesting to discuss than "gee, I think he's horrable because he didn't get to 1B in 3.78 seconds last night".

mroby85
04-10-2007, 09:02 AM
he showed some great hustle last night scoring on that weak sac fly by david ross. i would rather griffey keep it slowed down a little bit to keep his bat in the lineup myself.

Razor Shines
04-10-2007, 09:19 AM
But those here (and there are some) who see no drop off in his performance, who think he should be batting third, playing CF, are blind to reality. Some of those same folks will allow no criticism at all of the man's game, and defend him at all cost, at all times. While I admire their loyalty, they are clearly wrong. He does make the occasional mental error, and he is clearly not the same ballplayer he has been in the past, mostly due to so much surgery on his wheels. It's ok to point that out, and it doesn't mean one is a basher or hater to do so.


That was a great post, and I agree with almost all of it. Except this part. I haven't seen anyone argue that Jr. should be playing CF and hitting third. Except Tracy Jones, and he's not even serious.

osuceltic
04-10-2007, 09:38 AM
So wait ... He didn't run hard the first time because he might hurt himself, but when he runs hard last night, it proves he hustles? Look, Junior doesn't run out ground balls, he goes into his home run trot early, he doesn't take the extra base when it's there and he plays with all the energy of a flat tire. It's just who he is at this point. You hope he hits enough to compensate for it.

Personally, I think it's going to be hard to tell when he's hustling or not this season. He's still going to be moving in slow motion dragging that HUGE rear end around. Good lord ... Is that Junior or Willie Stargell?

Razor Shines
04-10-2007, 09:43 AM
So wait ... He didn't run hard the first time because he might hurt himself, but when he runs hard last night, it proves he hustles? Look, Junior doesn't run out ground balls, he goes into his home run trot early, he doesn't take the extra base when it's there and he plays with all the energy of a flat tire. It's just who he is at this point. You hope he hits enough to compensate for it.

Personally, I think it's going to be hard to tell when he's hustling or not this season. He's still going to be moving in slow motion dragging that HUGE rear end around. Good lord ... Is that Junior or Willie Stargell?

He does run out ground balls. True, he doesn't run as hard when he hits a hard grounder to first or second when they've got the shift on, but other than that he runs them out hard, always has. And I'm fine with that, I don't want him to risk getting injured on a GB to first or second when 99% of the time he's going to be out no matter what.

westofyou
04-10-2007, 09:44 AM
Good lord ... Is that Junior or Willie Stargell?
Pops was a skinny guy at one time, I totally see the comparison.

osuceltic
04-10-2007, 10:14 AM
He does run out ground balls. True, he doesn't run as hard when he hits a hard grounder to first or second when they've got the shift on, but other than that he runs them out hard, always has. And I'm fine with that, I don't want him to risk getting injured on a GB to first or second when 99% of the time he's going to be out no matter what.

We should protect everyone from injury and not run at all unless it is hit to the outfield. And then, we should only jog to first base. If we try to take second, we might be forced to slide, and we know all the nasty things that can happen when we slide. We also should never dive for balls anymore. It's only one play. And blocking the plate is definitely out. And so is running over catchers who are blocking the plate.

I'm not even sure we should allow these guys to drive to the stadium.

KoryMac5
04-10-2007, 12:11 PM
So wait ... He didn't run hard the first time because he might hurt himself, but when he runs hard last night, it proves he hustles? Look, Junior doesn't run out ground balls, he goes into his home run trot early, he doesn't take the extra base when it's there and he plays with all the energy of a flat tire. It's just who he is at this point. You hope he hits enough to compensate for it.

Personally, I think it's going to be hard to tell when he's hustling or not this season. He's still going to be moving in slow motion dragging that HUGE rear end around. Good lord ... Is that Junior or Willie Stargell?

Nobody is saying to put Junior in a bubble out there on the field (that's a cool picture). What I am saying is at the age of 37 or 38 with a history of injury problems he is going to pick and choose his spots a bit better than he did when he was 20. I am older now and though my heart still tells me I am 18 my body says I am 34. My wife however says my mind is about 8. :mooner:

WMR
04-10-2007, 12:32 PM
I thought Junior was stylin' and profilin' a little bit too much on that slide.

It would have been a lot scrappier if he'd dove headfirst.

RedFanAlways1966
04-10-2007, 01:16 PM
We should protect everyone from injury and not run at all unless it is hit to the outfield. And then, we should only jog to first base. If we try to take second, we might be forced to slide, and we know all the nasty things that can happen when we slide. We also should never dive for balls anymore. It's only one play. And blocking the plate is definitely out. And so is running over catchers who are blocking the plate.

I'm not even sure we should allow these guys to drive to the stadium.

Yep... I think everyone on the team has the injury history that Griffey has had. That is why they should all be treated the same in this regard. Not to mention that Griffey's bat is not needed in the lineup... not like Ross' bat, Gonzo's bat or Phillips' bat. Yep, I can see your point. Makes perfectly good sense. I love good old-fashioned common sense. Hard to find these days.

On the day he is inducted to the Hall-of-Fame, I will be screaming about that single off the wall. It really should prevent him from getting enshrined. One and done. It is the sensible thing to do.

Redlegs
04-10-2007, 01:31 PM
Looking back, I wish I had started this thread with a different title. Griffey has suffered several injuries through the years as a result of playing hard. I don't think he's one to "dog it" too often, however I don't excuse him for not standing on 2nd the other day following the off the wall single.

I think it would have been easier to take by most Reds fans if he had left the box and began, at the very least, jogging. The shot of him standing and admiring his work before realizing it wasn't leaving the yard was the part that stuck in my crawl.

osuceltic
04-10-2007, 02:08 PM
Yep... I think everyone on the team has the injury history that Griffey has had. That is why they should all be treated the same in this regard. Not to mention that Griffey's bat is not needed in the lineup... not like Ross' bat, Gonzo's bat or Phillips' bat. Yep, I can see your point. Makes perfectly good sense. I love good old-fashioned common sense. Hard to find these days.

On the day he is inducted to the Hall-of-Fame, I will be screaming about that single off the wall. It really should prevent him from getting enshrined. One and done. It is the sensible thing to do.

When RUNNING is a threat to your health, maybe it's time to stop being a professional baseball player.

Chip R
04-10-2007, 02:14 PM
When RUNNING is a threat to your health, maybe it's time to stop being a professional baseball player.


Perhaps, but that's his call.

Patrick Bateman
04-10-2007, 02:16 PM
When RUNNING is a threat to your health, maybe it's time to stop being a professional baseball player.

Well if Griffey doesn't mind getting injured, then he still has alot to offer the Reds even if his running isn't great.

George Anderson
04-10-2007, 02:18 PM
When RUNNING is a threat to your health, maybe it's time to stop being a professional baseball player.

We have to pay him regardless if he plays or not. I'd rather pay him 8 million swinging a bat than sittting at home.

osuceltic
04-10-2007, 02:21 PM
Well if Griffey doesn't mind getting injured, then he still has alot to offer the Reds even if his running isn't great.

Well, he's bad defensively, he's surly, plays with no energy, doesn't hustle, hamstrings (no pun intended) the team because of his injury history and tendency to stay injured longer than expected, and last year he was pretty mediocre offensively. I'm guessing this season's stats will be sub-par for your average right fielder. And his salary is crippling.

That's what he's offering.

Look, I loved watching Young Junior. That guy is long gone. We need to see the guy for what he is (if you can see past that huge caboose).

Razor Shines
04-10-2007, 02:30 PM
Well, he's bad defensively, he's surly, plays with no energy, doesn't hustle, hamstrings (no pun intended) the team because of his injury history and tendency to stay injured longer than expected, and last year he was pretty mediocre offensively. I'm guessing this season's stats will be sub-par for your average right fielder. And his salary is crippling.

That's what he's offering.

Look, I loved watching Young Junior. That guy is long gone. We need to see the guy for what he is (if you can see past that huge caboose).

How do you know what kind of energy he plays with? Can you tell by the look on his face or what? You must have some gift that I don't have. If he doesn't hustle and doesn't play with energy he wouldn't have scored on that pop up last night. And I don't think you have any idea if Jr. is surly or not, people that know him say the opposite.

Last year was below average, but it was mostly below average because he wasn't patient at the plate. Physically he's not what he was but he still had the ability to hit 27 home runs in 427 PAs. If he stays patient he'll have a fine season. And he's still feared by other team's pitchers and provides protection for other hitters in the line up.

Puffy
04-10-2007, 02:32 PM
Look, I loved watching Young Junior. That guy is long gone. We need to see the guy for what he is (if you can see past that huge caboose).

I can't. I can't see past his huge caboose. Good pickup. Thats his whole problem. That huge caboose of his.

You're such a swell guy, really bring a lot to the table here at Redszone with these keen huge caboose catches. Insight. Good job.

WMR
04-10-2007, 02:42 PM
Why are you fixated on Griffey's butt?

Dracodave
04-10-2007, 02:50 PM
Look, I loved watching Young Junior. That guy is long gone. We need to see the guy for what he is (if you can see past that huge caboose).

A) That is a statement that causes brain anyerusisms.
B) I DON'T care how big his butt is, if he can still make play's in right field and hit the ball.
C)He's what 37ish now? He hasn't aged well because he's been puting a body that's damaged by how many years of play on the line for GREAT CATCHES or trying to rob homeruns?
D) I agree with Puffy, that was insight....not.

Puffy
04-10-2007, 03:07 PM
Why are you fixated on Griffey's butt?

I think the real question here should be, "Why aren't You fixated on Junior's butt?"

:mooner:

osuceltic
04-10-2007, 03:08 PM
I can't. I can't see past his huge caboose. Good pickup. Thats his whole problem. That huge caboose of his.

You're such a swell guy, really bring a lot to the table here at Redszone with these keen huge caboose catches. Insight. Good job.

Lighten. Up.

Feel free to ignore the fact that he's old, overweight, oft-injured, overpaid and can't be bothered anymore to run out ground balls or to even run at all when hits a ball in the neighborhood of the outfield wall. I don't watch this team or this player with my head in the sand.

WMR
04-10-2007, 03:09 PM
I think the real question here should be, "Why aren't You fixated on Junior's butt?"

:mooner:

::line 'borrowed' from red leader::

"Griffey as much as I love to see you coming, I like watching you walk away even more."

:D :devil:

Puffy
04-10-2007, 03:19 PM
Lighten. Up.

Feel free to ignore the fact that he's old, overweight, oft-injured, overpaid and can't be bothered anymore to run out ground balls or to even run at all when hits a ball in the neighborhood of the outfield wall. I don't watch this team or this player with my head in the sand.

See, more great insight!

I do watch the Reds with my head buried in the sand - when I predicted 77 wins before the season started I did so with my head firmly in the ground, forgetting about reality. Damn my cursed optimism!

This is why you need to post more - so everyone can enjoy your insight into large cabooses and overweightedness. Not to mention your keen insight on his lack of hustle. Forget about the infield hit, he doesn't run out ground balls! Forget about his heads up baserunning and scoring on a fly out to short right field - these are aberrations over the long hard course of 7 games.

Fat, fat Junior. I mean he is a lard! He's got to be what, 220? At 6'1 that 220 makes him like wicked fat and stuff.

WMR
04-10-2007, 03:22 PM
Not to mention he has big thighs.

Dracodave
04-10-2007, 03:22 PM
Lighten. Up.

Feel free to ignore the fact that he's old, overweight, oft-injured, overpaid and can't be bothered anymore to run out ground balls or to even run at all when hits a ball in the neighborhood of the outfield wall. I don't watch this team or this player with my head in the sand.


A)Griffey is not over paid.
Overpaid is
-Gary Mathews Jr.
-Alfonso Soriano.
-Jason Marquis.
-Ted Lilly.

B)He's old, but he drove in two runs to help us come back against the Pirates didn't he? Can't take his talent away.

C)Oft-injured? He's injured from playing 120% because fans won't let him rest. He either plays 120% or gets heckled. His body was bond and teathered to give out diving for plays and running full speed to get dropping liners while getting beamed by batteries etc.

D)Run out ground balls? You might have him there, but look at last night. That slide for a run was dangerous for any player when he slide like that. I was concerned he injured himself but the words that came out of my mouth was "Oh my god, what the hell? Did he just hurt himself? I don't care who you are DON'T do that."

osuceltic
04-10-2007, 03:24 PM
See, more great insight!

I do watch the Reds with my head buried in the sand - when I predicted 77 wins before the season started I did so with my head firmly in the ground, forgetting about reality. Damn my cursed optimism!

This is why you need to post more - so everyone can enjoy your insight into large cabooses and overweightedness. Not to mention your keen insight on his lack of hustle. Forget about the infield hit, he doesn't run out ground balls! Forget about his heads up baserunning and scoring on a fly out to short right field - these are aberrations over the long hard course of 7 games.

Fat, fat Junior. I mean he is a lard! He's got to be what, 220? At 6'1 that 220 makes him like wicked fat and stuff.


You're right. He's fantastic. His weight has no bearing on his play in the outfield, ability on the bases, or on the likelihood that he might suffer more leg injuries. Because added weight on old, oft-injured legs means nothing.

Everything is fine with Junior. He's going to the Hall of Fame!

BRM
04-10-2007, 03:24 PM
Puffy, it must be awfully hard to breathe with your head in the sand.

Puffy
04-10-2007, 03:28 PM
Puffy, it must be awfully hard to breathe with your head in the sand.

I'm multi-talented. Don't u know I won the 2007 Masters Pool?

dabvu2498
04-10-2007, 03:29 PM
Not to mention he has big thighs.

And he needs a manzier.

osuceltic
04-10-2007, 03:30 PM
A)Griffey is not over paid.
Overpaid is
-Gary Mathews Jr.
-Alfonso Soriano.
-Jason Marquis.
-Ted Lilly.

B)He's old, but he drove in two runs to help us come back against the Pirates didn't he? Can't take his talent away.

C)Oft-injured? He's injured from playing 120% because fans won't let him rest. He either plays 120% or gets heckled. His body was bond and teathered to give out diving for plays and running full speed to get dropping liners while getting beamed by batteries etc.

D)Run out ground balls? You might have him there, but look at last night. That slide for a run was dangerous for any player when he slide like that. I was concerned he injured himself but the words that came out of my mouth was "Oh my god, what the hell? Did he just hurt himself? I don't care who you are DON'T do that."

We're going to have to agree to disagree on every point.

pedro
04-10-2007, 03:32 PM
Not to mention Griffey ginormous head. What an ego that guy has ;)

http://www.nbadraft.net/actor/kengriffeyjrsimpsons.jpg

BRM
04-10-2007, 03:33 PM
I'm multi-talented. Don't u know I won the 2007 Masters Pool?

Was your head in the sand when you picked the winner?

Puffy
04-10-2007, 03:33 PM
Not to mention Griffey ginormous head. What an ego that guy has ;)

http://www.nbadraft.net/actor/kengriffeyjrsimpsons.jpg

His hat size is 34B

WMR
04-10-2007, 03:34 PM
And he needs a manzier.

I prefer bro.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/89/Seinfeld_s6e4.jpg

Razor Shines
04-10-2007, 03:35 PM
Not to mention Griffey ginormous head. What an ego that guy has ;)

http://www.nbadraft.net/actor/kengriffeyjrsimpsons.jpg

This is bull crap, I'm tired of everybody picking on Jr. There is no way you are going to get me to believe that that picture wasn't doctored in some way. And even if his head is that big, that doesn't always mean a person has a huge ego, usually it does but not always.

Dracodave
04-10-2007, 03:53 PM
http://entimg.msn.com/i/150/Movies/Actors4/Murphy_JS0005932_150x200.jpg

"I saw Ken Griffey Jr at a club one night. I remember it well. I was laughing cause he had a big ******* head.I said to my friend, 'Wow He's got a really big head.'"

pedro
04-10-2007, 04:05 PM
This is bull crap, I'm tired of everybody picking on Jr. There is no way you are going to get me to believe that that picture wasn't doctored in some way. And even if his head is that big, that doesn't always mean a person has a huge ego, usually it does but not always.

Plus he's obviously on the "sauce". Pictures don't lie ;)

Degenerate39
04-10-2007, 04:56 PM
http://entimg.msn.com/i/150/Movies/Actors4/Murphy_JS0005932_150x200.jpg

"I saw Ken Griffey Jr at a club one night. I remember it well. I was laughing cause he had a big ******* head.I said to my friend, 'Wow He's got a really big head.'"

CHARLIE MURPHY!

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/images/pics/chappelle1.jpg

Dracodave
04-10-2007, 04:57 PM
CHARLIE MURPHY!

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/images/pics/chappelle1.jpg

"He had this strange glow...his auroa or whatever...it was ORANGE!"

indyred
04-13-2007, 10:43 AM
They were comparing this to Narron benching EE on Baseball tonight last night. Anyone see them kinda rip Narron for the double standard.

reds1869
04-13-2007, 10:45 AM
It may not be a double standard so much as Narron has finally had enough and has been given the green light to do as he wishes in these matters. We'll see the next time one of the star veterans does the same thing if he gets similar treatment. One way or another, I like the message Jerry sent to EE; imo Edwin is the type of person that will learn from his mistake and grow.

UGADaddy
04-13-2007, 11:04 AM
They were comparing this to Narron benching EE on Baseball tonight last night. Anyone see them kinda rip Narron for the double standard.

They were comparing him benching EdE to what?

KittyDuran
04-14-2007, 05:55 PM
Found this article from 2000...

BaseballBum
04-14-2007, 06:55 PM
It's amazing that so many people are defending the indefensible.