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TheWalls
04-09-2007, 09:33 AM
I know it's only a sample size of six games (five of them in hockey conditions), but I worry that the Reds two losses have been to pretty pedestrian lefties. Management has contributed to this problem with its one-sided emphasis of left handed power. My question is: can the Reds improve against lefties or will this be our offensive Achilles heel again this year?

Degenerate39
04-09-2007, 09:36 AM
It's still early so I really don't know yet. Only time will tell.

Ron Madden
04-09-2007, 09:45 AM
Having another RH hitting Outfielder on the bench instead of a third Catcher that can't hit makes sense.

Degenerate39
04-09-2007, 09:50 AM
Having another RH hitting Outfielder on the bench instead of a third Catcher that can't hit makes sense.

That's where Deno would have came in. What about Norris Hopper when he returns? Is he a right or lefty?

Dunner44
04-09-2007, 09:51 AM
I was sure when Jerry made the ouble switch yesterday that it would be with Castro, not Moller. He's just a horrible hitter (granted, Castro's not much better, but at least he gets on hot streaks).

ThatPitchIsDunn
04-09-2007, 10:02 AM
Isn't Zach Duke pretty much the Pirates' Number 1? He may be young, but I'm not sure if I'd call him pedestrian.

You're right on with Lilly though.

TOBTTReds
04-09-2007, 10:16 AM
Isn't Zach Duke pretty much the Pirates' Number 1? He may be young, but I'm not sure if I'd call him pedestrian.

You're right on with Lilly though.

I would take Lilly over Duke any day. I think Lilly could be this year's Arroyo. His curve just had the Reds sitting like they had never seen one. He looked like Zito.

Chip R
04-09-2007, 10:21 AM
I beleve Maholm is a lefty and the Reds handled him pretty well. he's about as pedestrian as you get.

PuffyPig
04-09-2007, 10:55 AM
I would take Lilly over Duke any day. I think Lilly could be this year's Arroyo. His curve just had the Reds sitting like they had never seen one. He looked like Zito.

We had about 3 balls hit against Liily that would have been HR's on any normal day..

Lilly and Duke are about he same, league average starters.

UK Reds Fan
04-09-2007, 12:44 PM
I guess we're hoping Hopper can get back and give us a stick from the right side...I can't see why Moeller would not automatically be sent away when Hopper's heal is better.

Problem is Norris has no power, but a high OBP guy. Do we give Griffey more days off vs. Lefties for an additional RH outfield bat?

Reds need more production from back part of lineup vs. lefties. Ross, Gonzo, etc...need to step it up and be more impactful.

BRM
04-09-2007, 12:52 PM
Hopper's career OBP in the minors is .345. That's not bad but I don't know that I'd classify him as a "high OBP" guy. And you're right, he has zero power. That said, I'd take him on the roster over Moeller in a heartbeat.

blumj
04-09-2007, 01:05 PM
A lot of average pitchers are more feast or famine than really pedestrian overall, and Lilly tends to be like that. If you let him settle in and get his curveball working, you're probably going to have a tough time. If you get to him early, you can knock him around.

westofyou
04-09-2007, 03:14 PM
Doug Davis tonight


AB H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS GIDP AVG OBP SLG OPS
Juan Castro 17 4 2 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 1 .235 .235 .353 .588
Jeff Conine 18 6 2 0 0 1 1 3 1 0 1 .333 .368 .444 .813
Adam Dunn 29 6 0 0 2 2 6 9 0 0 0 .207 .343 .414 .757
Edwin Encarnación 10 1 1 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 .100 .250 .200 .450
Ryan Freel 18 1 0 0 0 0 1 6 0 0 0 .056 .105 .056 .161
Álex González 4 0 0 0 0 0 1 2 0 0 0 .000 .200 .000 .200
Ken Griffey Jr. 23 4 2 0 1 4 2 6 0 0 0 .174 .240 .391 .631
Scott Hatteberg 18 6 1 0 1 4 1 0 0 0 0 .333 .350 .556 .906
Chad Moeller 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000
Brandon Phillips 14 6 1 0 0 0 3 0 0 1 0 .429 .529 .500 1.029
David Ross 9 1 1 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 1 .111 .111 .222 .333
Javier Valentín 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000

dougdirt
04-09-2007, 03:17 PM
That doesn't look promising WOY.... considering Conine and Hatteberg both do fairly well against him... but only Conine will be playing. Although given BPs success against him, maybe he can break out of this slump he has had at the start of the season.

pedro
04-09-2007, 03:19 PM
Considering contracts I think I'd take my chances with Duke over Lilly.

Topcat
04-09-2007, 03:23 PM
Considering contracts I think I'd take my chances with Duke over Lilly.

Duke is a far better pitcher and has upside. Lilly is over priced and has reached his ceiling. Now his elevator has but one way to go ;)

guttle11
04-09-2007, 03:41 PM
Doug Davis tonight


AB H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS GIDP AVG OBP SLG OPS
Juan Castro 17 4 2 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 1 .235 .235 .353 .588
Jeff Conine 18 6 2 0 0 1 1 3 1 0 1 .333 .368 .444 .813
Adam Dunn 29 6 0 0 2 2 6 9 0 0 0 .207 .343 .414 .757
Edwin Encarnación 10 1 1 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 .100 .250 .200 .450
Ryan Freel 18 1 0 0 0 0 1 6 0 0 0 .056 .105 .056 .161
Álex González 4 0 0 0 0 0 1 2 0 0 0 .000 .200 .000 .200
Ken Griffey Jr. 23 4 2 0 1 4 2 6 0 0 0 .174 .240 .391 .631
Scott Hatteberg 18 6 1 0 1 4 1 0 0 0 0 .333 .350 .556 .906
Chad Moeller 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000
Brandon Phillips 14 6 1 0 0 0 3 0 0 1 0 .429 .529 .500 1.029
David Ross 9 1 1 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 1 .111 .111 .222 .333
Javier Valentín 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000

http://www.pwtorture.com/yabbfiles/Smilies/couch.gif

Dracodave
04-09-2007, 04:37 PM
Duke is a far better pitcher and has upside. Lilly is over priced and has reached his ceiling. Now his elevator has but one way to go ;)


Duke is an amazing young pitcher, who is going places. He might profile as a number 2 or 3 but hell from a YOUNG lefty who has control? Thats amazing.


W L ERA G GS CG SH GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO WP BK H9 HR9 BB9 K9 WHIP
18 17 3.72 48 48 2 1 0 0 300.0 334 136 124 20 91 175 9 1 10.02 0.60 2.73 5.25 1.42


For a two year total on a hapless team like the Pirates..

Will M
04-09-2007, 04:39 PM
Ross and Phillips looked bad at the plate in week #1. If they get on track the Reds will look better vs LHP.

jmcclain19
04-09-2007, 04:44 PM
Doug Davis tonight


AB H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS GIDP AVG OBP SLG OPS
Juan Castro 17 4 2 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 1 .235 .235 .353 .588
Jeff Conine 18 6 2 0 0 1 1 3 1 0 1 .333 .368 .444 .813
Adam Dunn 29 6 0 0 2 2 6 9 0 0 0 .207 .343 .414 .757
Edwin Encarnación 10 1 1 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 .100 .250 .200 .450
Ryan Freel 18 1 0 0 0 0 1 6 0 0 0 .056 .105 .056 .161
Álex González 4 0 0 0 0 0 1 2 0 0 0 .000 .200 .000 .200
Ken Griffey Jr. 23 4 2 0 1 4 2 6 0 0 0 .174 .240 .391 .631
Scott Hatteberg 18 6 1 0 1 4 1 0 0 0 0 .333 .350 .556 .906
Chad Moeller 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000
Brandon Phillips 14 6 1 0 0 0 3 0 0 1 0 .429 .529 .500 1.029
David Ross 9 1 1 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 1 .111 .111 .222 .333
Javier Valentín 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000

Doug Davis owns the Reds the last few seasons. Not felling the best about tonight.

CaiGuy
04-09-2007, 04:50 PM
Arroyo usually isn't great against Arizona either...