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View Full Version : Hamilton should platoon w/Freel in CF



Wheelhouse
04-10-2007, 12:47 AM
Why not for 10 games or so to see if it works? Hamilton had the best spring of any player in the majors. I'm mad as heck about this game tonight--the Reds are facing two right handers they should pound the next two nights and Hamilton better get a start!

WVPacman
04-10-2007, 01:04 AM
Mark it down Hamilton will share time with all three outfielders when one needs a day off.I like how Narron is slowly giving him at bats b/c a guy just learning might be a little to much for him to start.Saying that thow Im with you thow I think he will start atleast one of the next two games.

HumnHilghtFreel
04-10-2007, 01:12 AM
Mark it down Hamilton will share time with all three outfielders when one needs a day off.I like how Narron is slowly giving him at bats b/c a guy just learning might be a little to much for him to start.Im with you thow I think he will start atleast one of the next two games.

I think you're right. We all want to see him thrown into the fire right away, but for all his faults, I think Narron knows best when to do so in handling Josh.

WVRedsFan
04-10-2007, 01:13 AM
I'm with Wheelhouse on this. If you're going to get an 0-4, why not play the rookie? Especially the rookie who was hot all Spring?

OTOH, it goes against Jerry Narron's beliefs and conservative nature to start a young rookie. Hamilton may start, but it will be with great thought and pennance.

Caveat Emperor
04-10-2007, 01:13 AM
I agree with getting Hamilton some more ABs (he's not getting any better collecting splinters on the bench), but lets get a little perspective here -- he's got a grand total of 3 big league ABs.

Freel is the everyday centerfielder. At this point, I don't see any justification for a platoon. If Hamilton develops and produces, then that might force the issue. But, right now, a platoon that keeps Freel's OBP out of the lineup in half the games isn't going to make the Reds a better ballclub -- especially if it relies on the hope that a Single-A ballplayer will produce consistently if given daily ABs.

I love the Hamilton story, but lets not get carried away.

Razor Shines
04-10-2007, 01:17 AM
I wish that WVRedsfan would weigh in on this...:)

I think Freel had a bad game against a guy he's always struggled against. He's done his job as a lead off hitter up to that game. Tomorrow a righty is going and I'm sure Josh will get his first start and Freel will get a night off.

WVPacman
04-10-2007, 01:24 AM
Hey WVRedsfan,its to late to be drinking coffie lol;)


Yes like I wrote before I see Hamilton starting in one of the next two games.Freel or maybe even Griffey will be taking a day off.

WVRedsFan
04-10-2007, 01:30 AM
Hey WVRedsfan,its to late to be drinking coffie lol;)


Yes like I wrote before I see Hamilton starting in one of the next two games.Freel or maybe even Griffey will be taking a day off.
I don't know what the heck happened with the quadruple post. I hit the submit button and I got this message about having just posted.

What you get when you stay up too late and lose a game you should have won, I guess. Or not.

Guess I'm still excited that Bobby's coming home! ;)

RBA
04-10-2007, 01:37 AM
Okay, if Freel always struggles against this guy, why do you start him tonight?

Razor Shines
04-10-2007, 02:04 AM
Okay, if Freel always struggles against this guy, why do you start him tonight?

Well with our current situation who else are you going to start? Narron's not gonna give Hamilton his first career start against a lefty. And without Deno or even Norris Hopper we're pretty much stuck, unless you want to see Juan Castro roaming center field.

Spring~Fields
04-10-2007, 03:15 AM
Between Freel and Hamilton which has the superior fielding, throwing, and hitting?

Ron Madden
04-10-2007, 03:26 AM
Another RH hitting Outfielder would come in pretty handy on this roster.

The need of three Catchers must out weigh the need of that RH Outfielder.

I know Deno would"ve probably been here if not for the injury, and Norris Hopper is hurt too.

My question is... Is it really that difficult to obtain another RHH 4th/5th OF'er?

This is an honest question, I'm not trying to be snarkey.

Jpup
04-10-2007, 04:09 AM
Between Freel and Hamilton which has the superior fielding, throwing, and hitting?

Ryan Freel. It's not even close at this point.

coachw513
04-10-2007, 07:44 AM
I'd quote WVRedsFan but... :D

Griffey needs to strengthen his wrist, Freel needs the occasional day off (by the way not that it was the difference in the game but you mean Freel needed to start against Davis with his 1-19 lifetime??)...this is/was my greatest fear about Hamilton that he's going to lose any rhythm he built up by not playing with any regularity...

It is early, but here's to hoping we run him out there every 3-4 days for a couple of starts to allow him to cultivate his vast talent...it will take time, but he needs to play semi-regularly if at all possible...

Heath
04-10-2007, 07:50 AM
I actually think that Jerry's going to be changing his philosophy on rookies only because his brother knows him.

GAC
04-10-2007, 08:33 AM
Hasn't Josh been pretty laid up with a stomach virus over the last week? I read the other day where he is going to the hospital to get fluids to fight dehydration and that it's really sapped his strength. If so, then it's not an ideal time to be throwing a rookie into the fire when he's not even 100% because I agree with Heath - Narron's brother is the reason Josh is a Red, and I think Narron will listen, and be giving him the playing time.

Besides - Freel already came out of ST banged up. And the way he plays, the DL unfortunately awaits at some point this season.

PuffyPig
04-10-2007, 09:38 AM
If you're going to get an 0-4, why not play the rookie?

How did Narron know Freel would go 0-4?

Razor Shines
04-10-2007, 09:45 AM
How did Narron know Freel would go 0-4?

I thought that Johnny Narron doubled as Hamilton's "keeper" and as the team psychic and palm reader? Am I wrong?

BRM
04-10-2007, 09:46 AM
How did Narron know Freel would go 0-4?

Well, Ryan was 1 for 21 with 1 walk in his career against Doug Davis coming into last night's game. That was a pretty good indicator that he struggles against Davis. However, there is now way of knowing that Freel wouldn't "come out of it" on that particular night. Davis being a LHP is likely another reason why we didn't see Hamilton start.

Spring~Fields
04-10-2007, 10:51 AM
Ryan Freel. It's not even close at this point.

Then they should stick with Freel.

BRM
04-10-2007, 10:54 AM
Ryan Freel. It's not even close at this point.

Well, Hamilton clearly has the better arm but Freel is the better hitter at this point. Or the most accomplished hitter at least.

Reds1
04-10-2007, 02:37 PM
Okay, if Freel always struggles against this guy, why do you start him tonight?

I totally agree. I think we are hung up on the righty/lefty thing. Hamilton should have started.

Razor Shines
04-10-2007, 02:46 PM
I totally agree. I think we are hung up on the righty/lefty thing. Hamilton should have started.

Maybe but you know Jerry believes in the righty/lefty thing and no way he was going to give Josh Hamilton his first major league start against a lefty.

Chip R
04-10-2007, 02:53 PM
I don't know if they should platoon but I think Josh should get a start once or twice a week. Giving Freel and Jr. a day off every so often is not a bad thing.

Reds1
04-10-2007, 03:02 PM
Maybe but you know Jerry believes in the righty/lefty thing and no way he was going to give Josh Hamilton his first major league start against a lefty.

I agree! But, I think it's a mistake. And seeing how Freel performed I would hope if the situation happened again Narron would start Hamilton or someone else. Freel has played a lot too so he could use the rest.

Highlifeman21
04-10-2007, 03:40 PM
Ryan Freel should platoon with Griffey in RF.

Start Josh Hamilton everyday in CF. Better range, better defensive instincts, much better arm.

The RF platoon saves both Freel and Griffey, which at this point in their respective careers, they both need. Freel's not an everyday player, and Griffey's fragile.

Problem solved.

Highlifeman21
04-10-2007, 03:41 PM
Between Freel and Hamilton which has the superior fielding, throwing, and hitting?

Hamilton dwarfs Freel fielding and throwing.

I'd wager a guess that if you gave them both the same PAs, you'd see similar numbers.

Redsland
04-10-2007, 03:44 PM
Let's first see if the guy who's never played above A-ball can hit major leaguers before we platoon him with our leadoff man or hand him the keys to centerfield.

BRM
04-10-2007, 03:51 PM
Let's first see if the guy who's never played above A-ball can hit major leaguers before we platoon him with our leadoff man or hand him the keys to centerfield.

Well, if 62 spring training at-bats hasn't convinced you then I don't know what will... :p:

reds44
04-10-2007, 04:26 PM
I don't think Freel can play everyday, and I haven't for awhile now.

Problem is I don't know if Hamilton is read yet. We need to trade for a legit CFer who can leadoff, and I've been saying it all offseason.

Marc D
04-10-2007, 05:00 PM
Hamilton dwarfs Freel fielding and throwing.


...and standing next to him.

KYRedsFan
04-10-2007, 06:33 PM
Let's first see if the guy who's never played above A-ball can hit major leaguers before we platoon him with our leadoff man or hand him the keys to centerfield.

EXACTLY. That's why this thread was started. He's not learning anything on the bench, so let's see what he can do. He did everything the team asked in spring ball, so what's the point of sitting him now?

jojo
04-10-2007, 06:53 PM
Well, if 62 spring training at-bats hasn't convinced you then I don't know what will... :p:

you act like centerfield is an important position or that thought should be put into who gets to hit in the spot in the lineup that leads to the most PA's.....like what's up with that.... :cool:

Spring~Fields
04-10-2007, 07:04 PM
Let's first see if the guy who's never played above A-ball can hit major leaguers before we platoon him with our leadoff man or hand him the keys to centerfield.

Balance, let's not toss him to the wolves and let's not make him bench fodder, a balanced approach seems applicable.

Place him where he has the greatest chances to succeed and to help the team, while he grows and develops, he can't do that on the bench. I expect him to be anxious/nervous or to maybe try too hard his initial playing times and like anyone he might need a bit of time to get over it before we can see what he can or cannot do.

Dracodave
04-10-2007, 07:09 PM
I'm glad he's getting his start against someone like Edgar Gonzalez though. A decent but not great starting pitcher.

Spring~Fields
04-10-2007, 10:51 PM
I did not realize how quick and accurate Hamiltons bat is until I saw that flash and homerun. I have to believe that he goes against tradition and is for real.

membengal
04-11-2007, 10:37 AM
He had me at plate discipline. The more of that the Reds can get in the line-up, the better...

Roy Tucker
04-11-2007, 11:16 AM
Last night was the first AB I've seen of Josh Hamilton. Holy cats. Color me very impressed.

The guy is a pro and looks like he's been in a MLB batter's box for 15 years. I saw his 2nd AB where he popped up on a 3-2 (or maybe 3-1) count and was angry he missed it. But it was so obvious what he was doing at the plate, how he was working the pitcher, and what he was expecting. And executed it all. His stance and approach reminds me of JD Drew.

He's the real deal. I think I understand now why folks in here are so jazzed up. If the Reds get rid of him, they are completely nuts.

Jpup
04-11-2007, 01:13 PM
If the Reds get rid of him, they are completely nuts.

That's not going to happen. I think he's going to be a Red for a long, long time.

kaldaniels
04-11-2007, 01:21 PM
Ryan Freel. It's not even close at this point.

I'd say this was a 3 tiered question. Hitting - Based on experience, Freel, but Hamilton will be able to pass Freel in a hurry if he lives up to expectations. Throwing - Hamilton. No doubt. Fielding - Freel. No doubt. I just have to disagree and say, Freel has the edge, but I'd say it is close at this point.

Razor Shines
04-11-2007, 01:31 PM
I'd say this was a 3 tiered question. Hitting - Based on experience, Freel, but Hamilton will be able to pass Freel in a hurry if he lives up to expectations. Throwing - Hamilton. No doubt. Fielding - Freel. No doubt. I just have to disagree and say, Freel has the edge, but I'd say it is close at this point.

I agree with you on the hitting and throwing part, but I think Hamilton is a better fielder than Ryan Freel right now. It's been said that Hamilton is the best outfielder on the team.

And on the hitting Hamilton may be better right now, but we haven't seen enough of him to know.

Jpup
04-11-2007, 01:43 PM
The question what who is better right now. How do we know anything about Hamilton. He has started 1 game in the majors. He has 1 hit, let's not get ahead of ourselves.

My "expert" scouting says that he is going to be an amazing player for years and years to come, but it's way too early to send Ryan Freel to the bench. I was kind of upset that Freel didn't play last night. I love Josh Hamilton and I expect he will rival Dunn as my favorite Red, but let's have some patience. We still have seen a whole lot from him. He can hit a fastball, but can he hit a good curve from a proven major league pitcher? Edgar Gonzalez isn't much at this point.

I do expect that Hamilton will start and eventually, at least, platoon with Freel before the all-star break.

Chip R
04-11-2007, 01:52 PM
The question what who is better right now. How do we know anything about Hamilton. He has started 1 game in the majors. He has 1 hit, let's not get ahead of ourselves.

My "expert" scouting says that he is going to be an amazing player for years and years to come, but it's way too early to send Ryan Freel to the bench. I was kind of upset that Freel didn't play last night. I love Josh Hamilton and I expect he will rival Dunn as my favorite Red, but let's have some patience. We still have seen a whole lot from him. He can hit a fastball, but can he hit a good curve from a proven major league pitcher? Edgar Gonzalez isn't much at this point.

I do expect that Hamilton will start and eventually, at least, platoon with Freel before the all-star break.


I agree but the big thing people worried about with him is if he would look overmatched up there. So far he hasn't. Conventional wisdom says that Freel can't play every day. I don't necessarily believe that since there is no way to quantify it. But giving a regular a day off every once in a while is not a bad thing. It keeps the bench players sharp and makes them feel like they are contributing. Plus it gives the regulars a day off from the long season. LaRussa is very good at doing this. Gonzalez isn't exactly Roger Clemens out there but he's not Jose Lima either.

Jpup
04-11-2007, 02:11 PM
. Gonzalez isn't exactly Roger Clemens out there but he's not Jose Lima either.

He did lose about 14 games in a row at one point, but I agree with you.:)

Caveat Emperor
04-11-2007, 02:28 PM
Last night was the first AB I've seen of Josh Hamilton. Holy cats. Color me very impressed.

He has a fantastic eye at the plate. He took a couple of bad cuts, but they were bad fastball cuts on pitches up and out of the zone -- most, if not all, prolific sluggers are vulnerable to high heat to some extent.

What little I've seen of him in spring and now the season has shown me he gets a great read on the baseball out of the pitcher's hand. I've yet to see him be locked-up by a pitch (though, it will no doubt happen) and he seems to possess a good ability to identify inside and outside pitches. He took a 2-strike pitch last night near the end of the game that only Adam Dunn would've laid off -- and thats as strong praise as I can think to give to his eye.

Good eye and knowledge of the strike zone, which he has shown, make for a formidable combination. Its what seperates Hamilton, a guy who would've been desitned for AA ball this year, from another Red who was riding the 25-man when he probably should've been in AA: Wily Mo Pena. Pena looked lost and flailed a lot at pitches because he didn't (and still doesn't) have a great command of the zone.

I like what I've seen from Hamilton. I need to see more ABs before I can come to any reliable conclusions, but the early returns (even in the ABs where he has made an out) are very, very encouraging.

Roy Tucker
04-11-2007, 02:37 PM
I like what I've seen from Hamilton. I need to see more ABs before I can come to any reliable conclusions, but the early returns (even in the ABs where he has made an out) are very, very encouraging.

Agreed.

I think it was his second AB where he struck out on a fastball up and away. And you could tell he immediately knew what he did and how he screwed up. And muttered to himself all the way back to the dugout and in the dugout for swinging at such a pitch. I bet you a nickel he won't do that again or at least recognize that pitch muych better. And this is in his 2nd game in the majors. <shakes_head>

I don't want to get all googly-eyed, but I think this trumps the "Ron Gant/Jose Guillen rescue a guy off the scrap heap" in spades.

kaldaniels
04-11-2007, 06:08 PM
Any word on Hamilton starting tonight? He earned another one last night.

Ron Madden
04-11-2007, 06:24 PM
Any word on Hamilton starting tonight? He earned another one last night.

I'd start him in RF tonight. With the off day tomorrow that gives KGJ two days off.

kaldaniels
04-12-2007, 12:31 AM
Ryan Freel. It's not even close at this point.

Getting closer....

dsmith421
04-12-2007, 12:37 AM
Given his unique background, what's Hamilton's contractual situation? How long do we control him cheaply, when does he become eligible for arbitration, etc?

kaldaniels
04-12-2007, 12:39 AM
Given his unique background, what's Hamilton's contractual situation? How long do we control him cheaply, when does he become eligible for arbitration, etc?

I asked the same thing awhile back and was told 3 yrs pre-arb, 3 yrs arb. :thumbup:

Jpup
04-12-2007, 03:33 AM
Getting closer....

maybe so, but Ryan Freel played awful well on Wednesday Night. Listen, you will not find a bigger supporter of Josh Hamilton, heck, I love the guy. I respect him tremendously and certainly look forward to everytime he puts on a Reds uni, but Ryan Freel was given the job, has earned the job, and should be given every opportunity to keep the job.

I would prefer they put Dunner at 1st, Jr. in left, Freel in center, and Hamilton in right everyday. I would go out and get me a right handed outfielder who could play if someone goes down and keep it that way for a long time. That would be the best idea IMO.

Redsland
04-12-2007, 11:24 AM
Given his unique background, what's Hamilton's contractual situation? How long do we control him cheaply, when does he become eligible for arbitration, etc?
Kal is correct, above.

Josh's major league service clock began ticking 12 days ago. Therefore, the Reds hold his rights for the next six years, including this one. Josh will be eligible for arbitration after his third season of major league service.

Chip R
04-12-2007, 11:26 AM
Kal is correct, above.

Josh's major league service clock began ticking 12 days ago. Therefore, the Reds hold his rights for the next six years, including this one. Josh will be eligible for arbitration after his third season of major league service.


Of course they can save money by sending him down to the minors after this season. ;)

Redsland
04-12-2007, 11:43 AM
Of course they can save money by sending him down to the minors after this season. ;)
Correct. At which point, Super Two status might come into play regarding his arbitration clock. But I didn't want to get into that.

(Thanks, Chip. :thumbdown )

:)