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View Full Version : Got Reasons For the 3-Game Skid?



RedFanAlways1966
04-11-2007, 09:08 AM
I do. It is easy to nitpick at this or that. Eric Milton (he started all this!) is always a good whippin' boy... but he cannot take the blame for the 3-game skid. The bullpen has not been the greatest (4ER, 3HRA, 8IP)... but still not the main reason in my book. The REDS starting pitching has not been awesome in the stretch (excpt Arroyo), but they have kept the team in the game (even Milton and Lohse!). 4.57 ERA and a 1.17 WHIP in those three games.

Ladies and Gentlemen, let me introduce your Cincinnati REDS offense. They are the main reason for this 3-game skid. Three games have produced a total of 9 Cincinnati runs. That might work in 1966, but it ain't workin' in 2007. Those 9 runs have been scored in 5 different innings... out of 29 innings at-bat. In other words the runs have been crossing the plate once every 5.8 innings. That ain't gettin' it done. They have 23 hits (8, 7 & 8) in 29 innings at-bat. That ain't gettin' it done.

Time to burn the bats and order some new ones from the Louisville Slugger plant. Or perhaps extra BP in the morning (if the Union will allow this mis-treatment). Not like the REDS have been facing Clemens or even Brandon Webb.

hebroncougar
04-11-2007, 09:18 AM
Yeah...........law of averages, especially on the road.

bucksfan2
04-11-2007, 09:28 AM
There offense is bad right now. I watched the game until about the 6th inning last night and what I saw was the lack of good ab's. Hamilton and Hatty were really the only batters who saw pitches and worked the counts. EE is a free swinger and we are just going to have to live with that. I just wish he would become more selective at the plate. The reds should have lit up the dbacks pitcher last night. He served up quite a few hard hit balls that were either over the wall or found their way to a fielder.

By the way is Hamilton a better leadoff that Freel? He shows more paitence and has a better knowledge of the strike zone.

2001MUgrad
04-11-2007, 09:41 AM
New year same crap. Depending entirely too much on the HR to score runs. Some of the guys even appear to be swinging straight up in attempt to hit the ball out. I'm not sure what the solution is. But, I know the REDS haven't exactly faced Cy Young the past 3 games either.

paulrichjr
04-11-2007, 09:42 AM
You hit it. Krivs is right about a team wins with pitching and defense but I think he forgot that they have to score some runs to win also.

RedsManRick
04-11-2007, 09:45 AM
2 men LOB in the 10th. 2 men LOB in the 11th. I am NOT a proponent of small ball generally speaking, but with a tie game in extra innings, you cannot get 2 men on with none out and not score. Just sad.

coachw513
04-11-2007, 09:53 AM
Execution...plain and simple...

Failure to get runners advanced or get them in...

Failure to make a good 2 out-2 strike pitch to batters...

But I'm an optimist and try to remember the obvious: every team wins 60, every team loses 60, it's what you do with the other 40...

I like how Griffey's swing has looked better recently...
I like Dunn's approach...
I like how Lohse hung in and didn't get buried...
I like Saarloos out of the bullpen, HR be damned...he's gonna be a weapon...
I like the improved defense...Gonzalez is a big help...
I like Hamilton as the 4th OF...he really is a major league hitter (bumps in the road not-withstanding)...
I like Phillips starting to break out of it...
I like the 1b platoon...
I like the very solid pitching from the starters...


We have little margin for error...little things will hurt us more because we can't overwhelm you with talent...

But we are better...we are tangibly and intangibly better...baby steps...

And we'll be just fine tonight...you just wait and see!!

Unassisted
04-11-2007, 10:13 AM
Night games in a timezone 3 hours west caused problems in August and September for last year's Reds, too. All of those "old guys" need their beauty sleep.

paulrichjr
04-11-2007, 10:23 AM
Ross is a horrible hitter. That might also be a problem. Who knew that Ross would hit worse than AGon?

flyer85
04-11-2007, 10:25 AM
3 runs a game isn't going to get it done.

Joseph
04-11-2007, 10:28 AM
Ross is a horrible hitter. That might also be a problem. Who knew that Ross would hit worse than AGon?

He did look terrible in the AB against Cruz last night. He didn't just make an out, he was lost completely. No clue. It would appear that by hitting him 8th that Narron doesn't exactly exude confidence in him to repeat last year either.

BRM
04-11-2007, 10:48 AM
3 runs a game isn't going to get it done.

Castro will be at 3B tonight so that should help.

Shaggy Sanchez
04-11-2007, 11:16 AM
I know this isn't always a popular stance around here but I think the real problem is that this team just isn't all that good. The offense has holes, ifs, and maybes. The starting pitching is average at best once you get past Harang and Arroyo and the bullpen IMO just isn't going to be that good. This team is going to struggle to score runs and unless Harang or Arroyo are pitching that is going to be a problem. I won't even get started on what I think of Narron but I will say that I don't think he is helping anything.

Joseph
04-11-2007, 11:18 AM
I know this isn't always a popular stance around here but I think the real problem is that this team just isn't all that good. The offense has holes, ifs, and maybes. The starting pitching is average at best once you get past Harang and Arroyo and the bullpen IMO just isn't going to be that good. This team is going to struggle to score runs and unless Harang or Arroyo are pitching that is going to be a problem. I won't even get started on what I think of Narron but I will say that I don't think he is helping anything.

I actually think thats the prevalent opinion around here on all fronts.

Degenerate39
04-11-2007, 11:19 AM
Castro will be at 3B tonight so that should help.

NOOOOOOOOO

RANDY IN INDY
04-11-2007, 11:28 AM
This team has to execute to play well, and they are not executing offensively. Some of these guys need to learn their jobs and their limitations. I see too many guys going to the plate with a "free swinging" mentality. There are only a couple of guys on the team that should "ever" take that approach. Know your game and your limitations and work on the things that will make you and the team successful. Other teams do that. It shouldn't be such a "foreign concept" for the Reds.

2001MUgrad
04-11-2007, 11:41 AM
The starting pitching is average at best once you get past Harang and Arroyo and the bullpen IMO just isn't going to be that good.


The bad thing about it is that the pitching thus far has FAR exceeded expectations. What is going to happen when they settle down.

So far pitching has allowed 27 runs in 8 games. Thats 3.37 runs a game. You have got to be better than 4-4 with the pitching doing that well. I don't guess it should be understated that the much improved defense has contributed to the low amount of runs allowed thus far.

Pitching and defense wins champtionships, but at some point you have to score as well.

smith288
04-11-2007, 01:52 PM
This team swings from their heels trying to hit 8 run homeruns. Even Freel was doing it. UGH.

bucksfan2
04-11-2007, 02:23 PM
This team swings from their heels trying to hit 8 run homeruns. Even Freel was doing it. UGH.

Freel does this from time to time. Say what you want about his speed but Ryan Freel is not a leadoff hitter. The guy isn't paitent enough, doesn't see enough pitchers, and swings at too many bad pitches. Idealy you want to see your leadoff hitter get on base but you also need him to see pitches. The more pitches he sees the better the following hitters do.

Dracodave
04-11-2007, 04:16 PM
Quite honestly, this team only has one blackhole in the line-up. Thats the lack of a right-handed power from either the Catcher position or..Somewhere else. Be nice if Ross could hit period, (Sorry, .100 batting average is just flat out bad) expecially if he can't keep his head in the game defensively.

I really couldn't careless about Gonzo's bat, so far his defense has saved a few runs. So he's doing his job for me. Outside of some bench help that can hit RH/LH pitching equally..I think we have a decent team. Not very future talent heavy..but a decent team none-the-less.

Eric_Davis
04-11-2007, 04:30 PM
Reasons for the 3-game skid?

We lost.


On a more serious note. We're exactly where we are supposed to be.

I wanted to play .500 on the road this year. That means 3-3 on this trip. That means either losing the Arizona series 1-2, or the Cubs series 1-2. I'd rather lose the Arizona series 1-2.

Now, we are very close to 1-1 on this series, but if we win the next game, we'll be 1-2 and exactly where I was hoping we'd be, going into Chicago to try to win 2 there and have a very successful 3-3 road trip.

No worries.

Razor Shines
04-11-2007, 04:39 PM
Reasons for the 3-game skid?

We lost.


On a more serious note. We're exactly where we are supposed to be.

I wanted to play .500 on the road this year. That means 3-3 on this trip. That means either losing the Arizona series 1-2, or the Cubs series 1-2. I'd rather lose the Arizona series 1-2.

Now, we are very close to 1-1 on this series, but if we win tomorrow, we'll be 1-2 and exactly where I was hoping we'd be, going into Chicago to try to win 2 there and have a very successful 3-3 road trip.

No worries.

I agree. If this team plays .500 on the road this year they'll make the playoffs. I'd like to think that they can win 2 out of 3 in Chicago, with both Harang and Arroyo going in that series, but Arroyo hasn't won yet so we'll see.

UGADaddy
04-11-2007, 05:02 PM
I understand that .500 is typically pretty good for a team on the road. But what happened to that mentality we had in '99? We had a better record on the road than we did at home by 6 1/2 games!

Anyhoo, no team, aside from the Cards, made the playoffs last year without a winning record on the road. I think it's going to take a few games over .500 on the road to win the Central. Assuming 90 wins captures the competitive division this season, I think the Redlegs need about 43-44 Ws on the road and 46-47 at home.

Falls City Beer
04-11-2007, 05:34 PM
Too many similar pitchers on the roster. They need different looks (or just an unending stream of hardthrowers in the pen, like the D-Backs have). If you can't stifle this D-Backs offense, then you likely deserve to lose.

fisch11
04-11-2007, 05:35 PM
Execution...plain and simple...


Precisely. Even though these last two losses have been frustrating, you can't be mad at the Reds' performance. The Reds were in both games all the way to the end. Arizona just executed small ball better and their bullpen outperformed. I would rather see the Reds have a chance late in the game than for it to be over in the 6th inning. If the Reds force every team to play perfect to beat them, they will win alot of games. Unfortunately, this Diamondbacks team is hot right now and is executing their chances perfectly.

The Reds will get there fair share of the opposite side of these types of close games.

George Anderson
04-11-2007, 05:41 PM
The pitching staff is 7th in MLB in ERA, granted its early and 7th isnt first but I am pretty happy with the pitching so far. I would rather be in the position we are now with pretty good pitching and lackluster hitting than lousy pitching and the hitters knocking the cover off the ball. There is an old line of thinking in baseball that pitchers will have the success early on in the season and hitters will come around later. Hope this is the case with this team.

Falls City Beer
04-11-2007, 05:42 PM
Not like the REDS have been facing Clemens or even Brandon Webb.

Maybe not, but Davis has eaten this team for lunch since seemingly the beginning of time. And that might have been the first time facing Gonzalez as a starter (?), yet they still hit three dingers off the guy.

The offense was there last night. The pitching wasn't. The play that lost the Reds the game was the Tracy homer. Ought to get used to that, though, that's Lohse's MO. When the going gets tough for Lohse, he turns into Brett Tomko.

reds44
04-11-2007, 05:43 PM
Castro will be at 3B tonight so that should help.
That would make no sense. If you are going to sit Edwin tonight, put Freel at 3rd and get Hamilton, Freel, and Phillips all in their lineup for their speed.

Putting Juan Castro in never helps an offense, and I hope Jerry knows that.

Falls City Beer
04-11-2007, 05:44 PM
The pitching staff is 7th in MLB in ERA, granted its early and 7th isnt first but I am pretty happy with the pitching so far. I would rather be in the position we are now with pretty good pitching and lackluster hitting than lousy pitching and the hitters knocking the cover off the ball. There is an old line of thinking in baseball that pitchers will have the success early on in the season and hitters will come around later. Hope this is the case with this team.

That's nice that they're 7th, but the Reds have faced three really bad offensive teams so far.

I quake at the thought of this team facing the Mets or Braves.

Razor Shines
04-11-2007, 05:46 PM
Maybe not, but Davis has eaten this team for lunch since seemingly the beginning of time. And that might have been the first time facing Gonzalez as a starter (?), yet they still hit three dingers off the guy.

The offense was there last night. The pitching wasn't. The play that lost the Reds the game was the Tracy homer. Ought to get used to that, though, that's Lohse's MO.

It's more the fault of whoever thought it would be ok to let Lohse throw any kind of a fastball in that situation. Fastball shouldn't even have been a consideration. Tracy should have seen a slider in the dirt and if he didn't swing, fine first base was open anyway. That was dumb, dumb, dumb, pitch selection and Lohse didn't shake anything off so it was the first choice of Javy or the bench, but probably Javy.

BRM
04-11-2007, 05:46 PM
That would make no sense. If you are going to sit Edwin tonight, put Freel at 3rd and get Hamilton, Freel, and Phillips all in their lineup for their speed.

Putting Juan Castro in never helps an offense, and I hope Jerry knows that.

I agree 100%. However, Castro is going to get some starts on the infield. Might as well accept it.

Falls City Beer
04-11-2007, 05:47 PM
I agree 100%. However, Castro is going to get some starts on the infield. Might as well accept it.

Absolutely, the question is only "when."

BRM
04-11-2007, 05:49 PM
Absolutely, the question is only "when."

It really wouldn't surprise me if he started at 3B tonight.

Falls City Beer
04-11-2007, 05:49 PM
It's more the fault of whoever thought it would be ok to let Lohse throw any kind of a fastball in that situation. Fastball shouldn't even have been a consideration. Tracy should have seen a slider in the dirt and if he didn't swing, fine first base was open anyway. That was dumb, dumb, dumb, pitch selection and Lohse didn't shake anything off so it was the first choice of Javy or the bench, but probably Javy.

I don't care who called for the stinkin' pitch; Lohse should know by this point in his career that lefties pound the snot out of him; the man's not a robot....he's seen enough of his garbage fly over the fence in the past to realize that that ain't the pitch in that situation.

Razor Shines
04-11-2007, 05:51 PM
I don't care who called for the stinkin' pitch; Lohse should know by this point in his career that lefties pound the snot out of him; the man's not a robot....he's seen enough of his garbage fly over the fence in the past to realize that that ain't pitch in that situation.

You're right and I don't mean to let him off the hook. The fact is that fastball shouldn't have been considered by any part of the battery or the coaches, the fact that everyone thought it was the right choice is confusing and concerning.

Jefferson24
04-11-2007, 05:56 PM
The teams we played were fundamentally stronger. Those fundamentals lead those teams to out pitch and out hit us.

When we start locating pitches better, laying down bunts in sac situations, hitting cut off men, putting the ball in play instead off foul pop ups we will start winning.

It's as simple as that! Do the fundamentals and do them well and the wins will come. Fail to accomplish the fundamentals and we can all sit around wondering why we are in a 3 game skid. The game of baseball isnít that complicated, at least thatís what I tell my Little League team.

Ltlabner
04-11-2007, 05:58 PM
It really wouldn't surprise me if he started at 3B tonight.

If Castro starts a game in late May would it be because EE stuggled at the plate last night?

Falls City Beer
04-11-2007, 05:59 PM
The teams we played were fundamentally stronger. Those fundamentals lead those teams to out pitch and out hit us.

When we start locating pitches better, laying down bunts in sac situations, hitting cut off men, putting the ball in play instead off foul pop ups we will start winning.

It's as simple as that! Do the fundamentals and do them well and the wins will come. Fail to accomplish the fundamentals and we can all sit around wondering why we are in a 3 game skid. The game of baseball isnít that complicated, at least thatís what I tell my Little League team.

I promise you: this team could hit every cutoff man, turn every double play, lay down every sac bunt from now till the end of September, and it's still not going to prevent the runs that are going to score on this team from knocking the Reds out of contention.

BRM
04-11-2007, 06:01 PM
If Castro starts a game in late May would it be because EE stuggled at the plate last night?

I don't know. Could it?

Ltlabner
04-11-2007, 06:02 PM
I don't know. Could it?

Sorry...guess that came out a little harsh.

Just meant that if Castro does in fact start a game at 3rd does it necessarly mean Jerry has benched EE as punishment?

PS: Please do not let Reds44 know the thread has turned in this direction. I'd hate for his head to explode. :)

BRM
04-11-2007, 06:04 PM
Sorry...guess that came out a little harsh.

Just meant that if Castro does in fact start a game at 3rd does it necessarly mean Jerry has benched EE as punishment?

PS: Please do not let Reds44 know the thread has turned in this direction. I'd hate for his head to explode. :)

I hope Jerry is past benching EE as punishment. I just think Jerry is looking to get Castro a start and the likely place is at 3B, although I could also see him at 2B with BP getting a day off. Now that I've said that watch Jerry start the regular 8 tonight. :)

Ltlabner
04-11-2007, 06:05 PM
I hope Jerry is past benching EE as punishment. I just think Jerry is looking to get Castro a start and the likely place is at 3B, although I could also see him at 2B with BP getting a day off. Now that I've said that watch Jerry start the regular 8 tonight. :)

Hey, if it works that way, keep posting it.

I'd give my kingdom for a semi-set "regular" 8 and batting line up.

BRM
04-11-2007, 06:11 PM
Hey, if it works that way, keep posting it.

I'd give my kingdom for a semi-set "regular" 8 and batting line up.

Well, Jerry has been using a somewhat regular lineup so far. We have the platoons at 1B and C like expected but he hasn't been moving people all over the lineup...yet.

Ltlabner
04-11-2007, 06:12 PM
Well, Jerry has been using a somewhat regular lineup so far. We have the platoons at 1B and C like expected but he hasn't been moving people all over the lineup...yet.

Actually, my father and I were talking about that yesterday. He's been suprisingly consistant with the line ups thus far. Let's hope he keeps it up and let's the "line up by lottery" plan go by the wayside forever.

George Anderson
04-11-2007, 06:54 PM
That's nice that they're 7th, but the Reds have faced three really bad offensive teams so far.

I quake at the thought of this team facing the Mets or Braves.

Arizona is 4th and Chicago is 5th in the NL in hitting. They are not the Mets or Braves granted, but far from being described as bad offensively.

Eric_Davis
04-11-2007, 08:36 PM
Arizona is 4th and Chicago is 5th in the NL in hitting. They are not the Mets or Braves granted, but far from being described as bad offensively.

Yes, and Chicago is easily the best offensive team in the National League. I'd swap our hitters for Arizona's in a heartbeat.