Castro batting 4th (Fire Narron)

[harangatang]

After Encarnacion came out of the game that stupid Narron put Juan Castro batting cleanup. This is inexcusable. Please, Jerry RESIGN or face getting a pink slip come July 31st. :D

[RedEye]

After Encarnacion came out of the game that stupid Narron put Juan Castro batting cleanup. This is inexcusable. Please, Jerry RESIGN or face getting a pink slip come July 31st. :D

Dude, the lineup order doesn't really matter after the first inning.

[kaldaniels]

I saw on another thread that Edwin was benched for coasting on a pop up. If thats the case, the manager has the right to get him out of there. I don't care where he is hitting. Who else was going to come in??? I think "Fire Narron" is a little rash.

[cincy09]

I saw on another thread that Edwin was benched for coasting on a pop up. If thats the case, the manager has the right to get him out of there. I don't care where he is hitting. Who else was going to come in??? I think "Fire Narron" is a little rash.

He never left the batters box.

[thatcoolguy_22]

i like the idea of keeping a reds version of "mini me" on the roster for situations like this

[reds44]

I saw on another thread that Edwin was benched for coasting on a pop up. If thats the case, the manager has the right to get him out of there. I don't care where he is hitting. Who else was going to come in??? I think "Fire Narron" is a little rash.
He didn't coast, he didn't leave the box.

It was abvious he didn't know where the ball was though. He thought he fouled it back, he even looked back.

Whatever, we won.
I love Josh.

[chettt]

Coasting??? He never left the batter's box. About time, Narron!!!

[HumnHilghtFreel]

What I would have liked to have seen instead: Subs in Griffey, Moves Freel to 3rd, Hamilton to CF.

[dougdirt]

Coasting??? He never left the batter's box. About time, Narron!!!

and he also thought the ball was behind the first base dugout in the stands....

I keep reading where people think the guy watched the ball off the bat and into the 2nd basemans glove.... he turned around and looked over the dugout thinking he had a foul ball, stepped back to the batters box to see the next pitch before he saw the ball about to be caught by the 2nd baseman.

[kaldaniels]

and he also thought the ball was behind the first base dugout in the stands....

I keep reading where people think the guy watched the ball off the bat and into the 2nd basemans glove.... he turned around and looked over the dugout thinking he had a foul ball, stepped back to the batters box to see the next pitch before he saw the ball about to be caught by the 2nd baseman.

At what point then should Narron do something about these "misjudgements". Not necessarly talking to you Doug, but Jerry's gotta do something here. Dunn, Jr, and now Ed aren't sure where a ball is hit and don't run hard/averagely down to first. Enough is enough.

[harangatang]

Dude, the lineup order doesn't really matter after the first inning.Dude, I know it's a joke, thus the smily face was added at the end just like this one. :D

[reds44]

At what point then should Narron do something about these "misjudgements". Not necessarly talking to you Doug, but Jerry's gotta do something here. Dunn, Jr, and now Ed aren't sure where a ball is hit and don't run hard/averagely down to first. Enough is enough.
There is a difference between thinking a ball is gone, and just simply not knowing where the ball is. He thought it was a foul ball.

Narron can quickly kill the issue by putting him in the lineup Friday. He'll have made his point, and not made in an issue. If Edwin sits Friday, it will become an issue.

[kaldaniels]

What I would have liked to have seen instead: Subs in Griffey, Moves Freel to 3rd, Hamilton to CF.

Ideally, yes. But from what I've seen over the yrs, when Jr. gets a night off...it is a night off. Just the way it has been...again, this doesn't warrant a "Fire Narron" thread. Like/dislike Jerry, he has a right to pull Edwin on a folly like that.

[kaldaniels]

There is a difference between thinking a ball is gone, and just simply not knowing where the ball is. He thought it was a foul ball.

Narron can quickly kill the issue by putting him in the lineup Friday. He'll have made his point, and not made in an issue. If Edwin sits Friday, it will become an issue.

There is a difference yes. But this is the 3rd time in a week a batter has been "confused" for lack of a better word on a ball in play. If there is a doubt, run to 1st. Narron just can't watch these "type of plays" time and time again. The moral...just run to first unless you are 100 percent sure of the landing spot of the ball. If it isn't in the seats, you'd better be off down the line. If you screw that up, you are at the mercy of your manager.

[reds44]

There is a difference yes. But this is the 3rd time in a week a batter has been "confused" for lack of a better word on a ball in play. If there is a doubt, run to 1st. Narron just can't watch these "type of plays" time and time again. The moral...just run to first unless you are 100 percent sure of the landing spot of the ball. If it isn't in the seats, you'd better be off down the line. If you screw that up, you are at the mercy of your manager.
Fair enough.

If Edwin starts Friday, the issue is dead. There is no issue. If he doesn't start Friday, then here we go again.

[redsfaninbsg]

While watching the game I had no problem with EE being benched, this though is what I had the problem with. Move Griffey to right, throw Hamilton to center and bring Freel down to play 3rd. It's not that hard, with an off day tomorrow there was no sense in letting Castro hit cleanup for that many innings.

[jimbo]

If Edwin sits Friday, it will become an issue.

With who exactly? The only people I see having an issue with it is some of the EE lovers here who thinks he does no wrong, and with all due respect that means little. If he has an issue with it, then he needs to suck it up and learn his lesson.

[kaldaniels]

Fair enough.

If Edwin starts Friday, the issue is dead. There is no issue. If he doesn't start Friday, then here we go again.

I agree, if Ed doesn't start Friday, I got a big problem with that.

[harangatang]

Ideally, yes. But from what I've seen over the yrs, when Jr. gets a night off...it is a night off. Just the way it has been...again, this doesn't warrant a "Fire Narron" thread. Like/dislike Jerry, he has a right to pull Edwin on a folly like that.Dude it was started as a joke. I knew things were a little tense around here and I hoped to lighten things up. Wow I never thought this thread would end up being anymore than a few smiley faces.

[kaldaniels]

While watching the game I had no problem with EE being benched, this though is what I had the problem with. Move Griffey to right, throw Hamilton to center and bring Freel down to play 3rd. It's not that hard, with an off day tomorrow there was no sense in letting Castro hit cleanup for that many innings.

But like I said, it just seems to take out-of-world circumstances to get Jr. to come off the bench early when he gets the night off. Just the way it is, not blaming anyone, but sticking Castro in there wasn't the end of the world.

[HumnHilghtFreel]

All joke threads aside, Castro did put some good swings on the ball tonight.

[kaldaniels]

Dude it was started as a joke. I knew things were a little tense around here and I hoped to lighten things up. Wow I never thought this thread would end up being anymore than a few smiley faces.

Hey fair enough, the smiley face backs that up. But the inflammatory "Fire Narron" in the title definitly caught my eye, so I responded. :beerme:

[reds44]

With who exactly? The only people I see having an issue with it is some of the EE lovers here who thinks he does no wrong, and with all due respect that means little. If he has an issue with it, then he needs to suck it up and learn his lesson.
What do you mean with who?

It become a team issue. Suck it up and deal with it? Are you kidding me? He's a 23 year old kid (yeah I'm 17) you don't mess with his psyche. Talk to him on the plane ride home tonight, and burry the hachett (sp?). Leave it in Arizona.

[TeamBoone]

With who exactly? The only people I see having an issue with it is some of the EE lovers here who thinks he does no wrong, and with all due respect that means little. If he has an issue with it, then he needs to suck it up and learn his lesson.

He paid his penance tonight for his alleged mistake, including the added embarassment of being pulled. Sitting him on Friday would be overkill.

[redsfaninbsg]

All joke threads aside, Castro did put some good swings on the ball tonight.

Yea, so far this season in limited at bats Castro has hit the ball very solidly. Maybe I'm just dillusional but if the Reds pitching staff can fire up these kinds of numbers all season I think the offense will get it turned around. It could be worse 5-4 to start the season, winning two of three against the Cubs would be huge. I like the Reds chances with Harang, Arroyo, and Loshe taking the hill.

[jimbo]

He paid his penance tonight for his alleged mistake, including the added embarassment of being pulled. Sitting him on Friday would be overkill.

I don't disagree, but the whole idea there are going to be "issues" if he sits another game is just over the top.

[jimbo]

What do you mean with who?

It become a team issue. Suck it up and deal with it? Are you kidding me? He's a 23 year old kid (yeah I'm 17) you don't mess with his psyche. Talk to him on the plane ride home tonight, and burry the hachett (sp?). Leave it in Arizona.

If his mental state is that fragile then there are a lot deeper problems. Babying him isn't going to help him.

[KronoRed]

Dude, the lineup order doesn't really matter after the first inning.

Well it kind of does, the guys hitting higher end up with more at bats.

[reds44]

Well it kind of does, the guys hitting higher end up with more at bats.
Not to mention Juan Castro as Dunn's protection is never a good idea.

[Razor Shines]

and he also thought the ball was behind the first base dugout in the stands....

I keep reading where people think the guy watched the ball off the bat and into the 2nd basemans glove.... he turned around and looked over the dugout thinking he had a foul ball, stepped back to the batters box to see the next pitch before he saw the ball about to be caught by the 2nd baseman.

He didn't watch the ball off the bat, but it's after he turns and looks behind him. They showed a replay that clearly shows him pick up the ball in front of him and follow it to Hudson. It was on the way down when he picked it up, and at that point it probably didn't matter, but he still didn't move toward first. I don't know if that makes any difference but that replay is there, I saw and the Dbacks announcers mentioned it.

[kxblue]

Castro hit the ball hard tonight. He hasn't looked bad so far this season. Actually, I don't think he has ever looked that bad as a Red, but I could be wrong (this is where someone posts his stats and he has an OPS sub .700)

[Big Klu]

Benching Encarnacion was an extreme measure which I felt that Narron had to make. Kudos to him for making the gutsy call. (It reminded me of when Bobby Cox pulled a young Andruw Jones mid-inning for lollygagging in CF.) IMO, the next move Narron definitely needs to make is to start Encarnacion the very next game to show confidence in him, and to see if he has learned his lesson. This would show that he has a firm, yet fair, hand regarding discipline.

As for the complaints about Castro being inserted into the lineup at 3B and in the #4 slot--Griffey was given a day off (which many on this board have been calling for). It was only the second inning, so putting him in would pretty much nullify the benefits of resting him. He was still available later in the game, and if it had been necessary, he could have PH for Castro, then stayed in the game in RF, with Hamilton moving to CF, and Freel moving to 3B.

Personally, I would not have used Griffey as the PH for Belisle after Valentin had already delivered the go-ahead two-run double. I would have done one of the following:
1) Let Belisle hit for himself in an obvious bunt situation.
2) Pinch-hit with Conine.

That way, Griffey would have still been available in the 8th or 9th inning to pinch-hit for Castro (if necessary).

I also would have used Milton (instead of Moeller) to pinch-hit for Stanton, but that move made a little more sense when Moeller stayed in the game behind the plate as a replacement for Valentin. (I have been mildly impressed with Moeller's defensive skills so far this season.) Still, I would have used Milton to PH, and left Valentin in at C.

One final comment: It is games like this that show how shallow a five-man bench is. When a substitute has to be used in the early innings, a lot of strategy and flexibility go out the window. Hopefully the Reds will eventually jettison the twelfth pitcher (Milton? Cormier?) and add a sixth bench player.

[Nugget]

The other issue is the love for Freel. I don't think that the REDS believe that Freel would be an adequate replacement for EE at third for eight innings. Given the new pitching/defence REDS having Golden Gloves for eight innings at third was a better option.

[MartyFan]

After Encarnacion came out of the game that stupid Narron put Juan Castro batting cleanup. This is inexcusable. Please, Jerry RESIGN or face getting a pink slip come July 31st. :D

:)

So are you a Jet or a Shark?

[coachw513]

Narron can quickly kill the issue by putting him in the lineup Friday. He'll have made his point, and not made in an issue. If Edwin sits Friday, it will become an issue.

From today's DDN, it appears Narron is doing just that, making his point but not creating an issue:


"Eddie will be back in there Friday, but if they don't run the balls out, they don't play," he (Narron) said. "I love Eddie and think he is going to be a great player, but he messed up. Doggone it, you can't be messing up in this game by not hustling. If you don't know where the ball is, you run until you find out where it is. Eddie has never dogged it and it was an honest mistake, but it was a mistake."

[EddieMilner]

I am completely fine with the benching of EE. However why didn't they do a double switch moving Freel to 3rd and bringing Griffey into RF and move Hamilton to CF? Seems like that would be the better move in the 2nd inning.

[BRM]

"Eddie will be back in there Friday, but if they don't run the balls out, they don't play," he (Narron) said.


Substitute "they" with "some" and I agree.

[pahster]

Castro hit the ball hard tonight. He hasn't looked bad so far this season. Actually, I don't think he has ever looked that bad as a Red, but I could be wrong (this is where someone posts his stats and he has an OPS sub .700)

Juan Castro career - .233/.272/.340/.612. :p:

[BuckU]

I am completely fine with the benching of EE. However why didn't they do a double switch moving Freel to 3rd and bringing Griffey into RF and move Hamilton to CF? Seems like that would be the better move in the 2nd inning.


It was probably part of the teaching process for EE. Narron was porbably like "Not only did you not run out that pop up, but I am forced to use Castro in cleanup, look what you did!" (I'll agree with others on the fact that Castro put some lumber on the ball)

Honestly, I fully agree with Narron. Hopefully the lesson is learned.

[Team Clark]

and he also thought the ball was behind the first base dugout in the stands....

I keep reading where people think the guy watched the ball off the bat and into the 2nd basemans glove.... he turned around and looked over the dugout thinking he had a foul ball, stepped back to the batters box to see the next pitch before he saw the ball about to be caught by the 2nd baseman.

The pitcher also pointed straight up to the catcher. The catcher was also fooled. I understand Jerry's point. Funny thing is Castro hit the ball harder in his two AB's than EE has in the last 3 games. EE will be just fine and go on to hit .300 with 35 jacks... :thumbup:

Baseball is a long season and this is a hiccup. Relax with the Fire Narron garbage folks. Jerry found a new pair of shiny silver balls this off season and figured out how to use them. Leyland benched I-Rod last year for not hustling. Looking forward to the next time Griffey dogs it. That will earn him a golden pair. I was impressed that he sat Ross in a crucial situation. Jerry's guts and Javy's bat won the game.

[Team Clark]

I am completely fine with the benching of EE. However why didn't they do a double switch moving Freel to 3rd and bringing Griffey into RF and move Hamilton to CF? Seems like that would be the better move in the 2nd inning.

When's the last time Freel has even taken grounders??? Much less played in a game in the IF? This is not Strat-o-Matic baseball. You need as much SPEED as possible in Arizona's OF. Griffey would seriously hinder that equation. The right move was made.

[EddieMilner]

When's the last time Freel has even taken grounders??? Much less played in a game in the IF? This is not Strat-o-Matic baseball. You need as much SPEED as possible in Arizona's OF. Griffey would seriously hinder that equation. The right move was made.

I would hope (since we have only Castro as a backup at 3rd, 2nd, and Short) that Freel takes grounders during practice in case we need him.

[CySeymour]

Did Freel even play the infield during spring training? I can't remember him doing so, and I don't think he played the infield past July last year.

[BRM]

Did Freel even play the infield during spring training? I can't remember him doing so, and I don't think he played the infield past July last year.

Not that I remember. Face it, Castro is it when it comes to the Reds infield depth. He is the lone backup at 2B, SS, and 3B.

[Blitz Dorsey]

If Edwin "hits 35 jacks" I will jump into the Ohio River neckid.

(OK, no I wouldn't. I would just be happy.)

[UGADaddy]

If Edwin "hits 35 jacks" I will jump into the Ohio River neckid.

(OK, no I wouldn't. I would just be happy.)

Right there with you.

I've said it before on here, but I LOVE JERRY NARRON!! I hate players who don't hustle. (I know it was an honest mistake, but I think it's good to set an example of how those kinds of things will be handled early in the season and early in EdE's career.) I also love the fact that he's getting Josh in at every opportunity. I love the fact that he's had the stones to move KGJ to right and out of the three hole. Narron is a good baseball man, and he's a good leader for the Reds. Way to go Jerry!

[KronoRed]

Not that I remember. Face it, Castro is it when it comes to the Reds infield depth. He is the lone backup at 2B, SS, and 3B.

You're not nice with such horror this early in the season :help:

[Team Clark]

If Edwin "hits 35 jacks" I will jump into the Ohio River neckid.

(OK, no I wouldn't. I would just be happy.)

If he plays 150 games this year he's got a VERY good shot. Especially the way he hits when he gets hot. Pole to Pole power.

[M2]

The upside of last night's lineup is that in years to come, long after Jerry Narron has been canned, this game will be the stuff of legend. "It's not as bad as Juan Castro hitting cleanup" will become one of the most typed phrases on Redszone.

[REDREAD]

Dude, the lineup order doesn't really matter after the first inning.

I disagree. If Dunn doesn't have a decent hitter behind him, smart teams will pitch around him every time.

Wouldn't you walk Dunn to face Castro in a crucial situation?

[REDREAD]

and he also thought the ball was behind the first base dugout in the stands....

I keep reading where people think the guy watched the ball off the bat and into the 2nd basemans glove.... he turned around and looked over the dugout thinking he had a foul ball, stepped back to the batters box to see the next pitch before he saw the ball about to be caught by the 2nd baseman.

And the fact that the ball was caught means that it doesn't really matter if he ran or not. Even if EdE made it to 3b when the ball was caught, it's still an out.

It's dumb to yank people out of the game for a relatively minor mistake.

If I was Edwin, I'd run to first on every foul ball now. Drag out the game.

[Chip R]

The upside of last night's lineup is that in years to come, long after Jerry Narron has been canned, this game will be the stuff of legend. "It's not as bad as Juan Castro hitting cleanup" will become one of the most typed phrases on Redszone.


Maybe. But it wasn't like that was the original lineup or a last second change.

[REDREAD]

The upside of last night's lineup is that in years to come, long after Jerry Narron has been canned, this game will be the stuff of legend. "It's not as bad as Juan Castro hitting cleanup" will become one of the most typed phrases on Redszone.

Kind of like the game when Castro started at 1b against Randy Johnson.
I think there were some other bizarre parts of the lineup too, all in the name of defense.

[RedEye]

Dude, I know it's a joke, thus the smily face was added at the end just like this one. :D

Dude, I was really out of it when I responded to your post. Sorry. :D

[M2]

When's the last time Freel has even taken grounders??? Much less played in a game in the IF? This is not Strat-o-Matic baseball. You need as much SPEED as possible in Arizona's OF. Griffey would seriously hinder that equation. The right move was made.

Dude, I've played plenty of Strat and if you don't think bad OF defense can kill you in that game, then you haven't played it much.

As for Freel playing the IF, seeing that he's done it for over a decade in professional baseball I figure that he's more than capable of filling in on a spot basis. Given the makeup of this team, Freel should have been taking grounders all spring and probably twice a week in warmups just to keep sharp. If he wasn't then that's awfully short-sighted management on Narron's part.

[Doro]

ya this post is stupid, who else do you want inserted in Encarnacions spot that can play 3B and is a 4 type hitter? No one off the bench especially! Get real!

Castro hit the ball hard twice but right at people.



ARM CHAIR QUARTERBACK


and this quote is probably the stupidest thing I have ever heard:
"And the fact that the ball was caught means that it doesn't really matter if he ran or not. Even if EdE made it to 3b when the ball was caught, it's still an out.
It's dumb to yank people out of the game for a relatively minor mistake.
If I was Edwin, I'd run to first on every foul ball now. Drag out the game."

So you think Narron should lay back and watch his players not hustle out of the box? Edwin didnt realize it wasnt in foul territory yes but even when he did realize where the ball was at he still just stood there. If that ball was bobbled and dropped then everyone would be ripping the Reds for not having discipline and who does that fall back on? THE MANAGER.

[BRM]

ya this post is stupid, who else do you want inserted in Encarnacions spot that can play 3B and is a 4 type hitter? No one off the bench especially! Get real!

Castro hit the ball hard twice but right at people.



ARM CHAIR QUARTERBACK

Junior was on the bench. Folks on the PBP thread were calling for Junior to take EE's spot, slide Freel to 3B and Hamilton to CF.

[Doro]

why would you replace someone not hustling with another who does the same thing. A few nights ago Jr. hit one off the wall.... watched it like he hit it 550 feet and got a single. Dunn has been known to do the same thing.... eventually someone has to put their foot down.

[M2]

Just a question because I haven't seen the play, all I know is he popped to 2B with runners on 1st and 3rd. Was it reasonable to think the IF Fly Rule was going to be in effect for that play? In fact, should it have been in effect?

[Dracodave]

Just a question because I haven't seen the play, all I know is he popped to 2B with runners on 1st and 3rd. Was it reasonable to think the IF Fly Rule was going to be in effect for that play? In fact, should it have been in effect?

It was caught more towards right field. It wasn't in the infield. The ball was rocket, and even Chris Snyder looked straight up and back with Edwin. Owings pointed up and everyone just looked towards the foul line.

It was just a weird play. Even Hudson kinda stepped around with it.

[TC81190]

There is a difference between thinking a ball is gone, and just simply not knowing where the ball is. He thought it was a foul ball.

Narron can quickly kill the issue by putting him in the lineup Friday. He'll have made his point, and not made in an issue. If Edwin sits Friday, it will become an issue.

I am livid that he was yesterday. I mean fuming. I turned off the game. I read the post-game report and when I got to the part about Narron saying something angrily I said to myself, "Shut the hell up, you stupid ass!"

If Edwin is out Friday, god knows how pissed I will be.

[klw]

I just this doesn't have the shelf life of Manny not running to first vs Tampa a few years ago has had.

[Chip R]

Just a question because I haven't seen the play, all I know is he popped to 2B with runners on 1st and 3rd. Was it reasonable to think the IF Fly Rule was going to be in effect for that play? In fact, should it have been in effect?


No. It was 1st and 3rd not 1st and 2nd. IF fly rule applies only with runners on 1st and 2nd. I was thinking the same thing last night.

[Team Clark]

Dude, I've played plenty of Strat and if you don't think bad OF defense can kill you in that game, then you haven't played it much.

As for Freel playing the IF, seeing that he's done it for over a decade in professional baseball I figure that he's more than capable of filling in on a spot basis. Given the makeup of this team, Freel should have been taking grounders all spring and probably twice a week in warmups just to keep sharp. If he wasn't then that's awfully short-sighted management on Narron's part.

I love strat. (If you have played the computer vision PM me) I like playing advanced with the matchups and where defense really does matter. To say that I have played thousands of games would be an understatement.

SOME people think that you can just move players around a Major League field like it's no big deal. That was my point. True, Freel HAS played the IF for a long time. I liked Freel as a 2B. Freel has played more 2B than 3B IIRC. I just don't know that I would throw him in at 3B in a tight game when he has not logged an inning in the IF in approximately 70 games not including ST. Castro was the only option at that point. Can't see how anyone could fault Narron for that decision.

[registerthis]

I am livid that he was yesterday. I mean fuming.

If Edwin is out Friday, god knows how pissed I will be.

Dude.

It's an April regular season game. I can understand "mildly annoyed." But livid, fuming and pissed seems a bit...over the top?

[Team Clark]

Dude.

It's an April regular season game. I can understand "mildly annoyed." But livid, fuming and pissed seems a bit...over the top?

Leaving Ross into hit with runners on 1st and 3rd would qualify for fuming!! :laugh: Fortunately, Jerry spared us of that debacle. :thumbup:

[Dracodave]

Leaving Ross into hit with runners on 1st and 3rd would qualify for fuming!! :laugh:

Oh my, thats just suicidal.

[TC81190]

Dude.

It's an April regular season game. I can understand "mildly annoyed." But livid, fuming and pissed seems a bit...over the top?

It's just one thing after another with Jerry, coupled with a 3-game slide, and an article about the Reds becoming "a small ball team carried by pitching."