PDA

View Full Version : No love for Matt Belisle?



howyoufreelin
04-12-2007, 08:29 AM
Where's the love for Matt Belisle? The guy has only been one of the best starting pitchers in the National League thus far. As long as he can control his fastball, he can be really effective. He's got all the stuff. I think he is going to have a really good season this year.

Dunner44
04-12-2007, 08:51 AM
Give him a couple more starts for people to build a scouting report on him. He probably throws a couple more pitches as a starter than as a reliever. But I've been really impressed with what I've seen so far. When he was starting a few years back, it seemed to be a mental problem, because when he had to start on no notice (he did that twice) he dominated, but when he had to do it on regular rest, he struggled. Looks like Winter Ball and some more time in the bigs got him mentally prepped for starting at the MLB level.

lollipopcurve
04-12-2007, 08:52 AM
Looking very solid so far with his fastball/slider power mix. He seems to have put his curve on the back burner -- is it my imagination, or is he throwing it a lot less than before?

I'm very encouraged by Belisle.

Chip R
04-12-2007, 09:08 AM
Matt's done a fine job in his first two starts. Hopefully he can continue cause Lord knows we need the pitching.

Dunner44
04-12-2007, 09:09 AM
Here's my blast from the past on Belisle:


Matt Belisle doesn't want to admit that he might pitch better when he doesn't know he's starting.

Belisle (2-4) got his first start of the season on April 13 at St. Louis, when he replaced injured Ramon Ortiz. He'd been told the night before that Ortiz might be sidelined with a groin injury, and he responded by allowing one run and four hits in Cincinnati's 6-5 win.

The rookie right-hander, the only nonstarter to not pitch in Tuesday's 14-inning win, had no warning that he would be making his first start since April 23. Harang was sidelined by flu-like symptoms, and Belisle didn't know he was starting until he arrived at the ballpark about 1½ hours before the game.

He responded by limiting the Nationals to two runs and five hits, and matching his personal best with six strikeouts in a career-high six innings.

"I guess that's my track record, but knowing or not knowing, it should be the same," Belisle said. "The big thing is to establish consistency. I knew the bullpen was depleted, and I wanted to give them as much as I could, so I wanted to be aggressive."


Box score from that game: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250525117

Here the box on Belisle's first start in '05: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250413124

This was his next start, one where he had advance warning: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250418117


The Cubs hit four homers in the first three innings off shellshocked starter Matt Belisle, who was muttering to himself on the mound as he jerked his head and watched one ball after another clear the walls.

Corey Patterson, Aramis Ramirez and Burnitz also homered off Belisle, who moved into the rotation because Ramon Ortiz is disabled by a strained groin.

Thousands of Cubs fans in the stands reveled as Belisle gave up three homers and a double off the wall in a 17-pitch sequence of the first inning. Patterson started it with a two-out homer to right, Ramirez then hit one to left, and Burnitz doubled off the wall in left. "I had a very tough time making adjustments," Belisle said. "On my breaking balls, I was just casting them instead of throwing them like I had been."

Belisle made one more start in that stretch: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=250423128


Then he had a long time off of starting until he had to go for Harang and pitched that gem of a game where the first quote comes from. When he had to start a second game, he did better this second time through, but he still took the loss, going down 4-3 to the Marlins on a CG by Willis. Box score here: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250531118

stevekun
04-12-2007, 09:14 AM
So far so good in my oppinion...one of the suprises of the early start of this season

coachw513
04-12-2007, 09:15 AM
Here's my blast from the past on Belisle:



Box score from that game: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250525117

Here the box on Belisle's first start in '05: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250413124

This was his next start, one where he had advance warning: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250418117



Belisle made one more start in that stretch: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=250423128


Then he had a long time off of starting until he had to go for Harang and pitched that gem of a game where the first quote comes from. When he had to start a second game, he did better this second time through, but he still took the loss, going down 4-3 to the Marlins on a CG by Willis. Box score here: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250531118

Great info and post...

It did seem like for a while Belisle's stuff was ahead of his "mind"...hopefully he's up to the task of being counted on every 5th day now...

MississippiRed
04-12-2007, 09:37 AM
According to Melvin after the game, he was very impressed with Belisle. He said Matt used mostly fastballs and change-ups early, then started really using the breaking balls the 3rd time through the order.

HalMorrisRules
04-12-2007, 09:43 AM
I was included among the Belisle doubters and I am very happy to be proven wrong so far. He seems to have confidence and hasnt gotten down when he has given up runs early. Very, very solid performances so far.

Always Red
04-12-2007, 09:43 AM
Plenty of love for Matt Belisle; I think he's our #3 SP now. He definitely has a better plan of attack this year, IMO.

Dunner44
04-12-2007, 09:44 AM
Plenty of love for Matt Belisle; I think he's our #3 SP now. He definitely has a better plan of attack this year, IMO.

How much of that is Dick Pole? And how much is D-Ross? He still calls a good game even if he couldn't hit Mt. Rushmore...

OesterPoster
04-12-2007, 09:56 AM
How much of that is Dick Pole? And how much is D-Ross? He still calls a good game even if he couldn't hit Mt. Rushmore...

I seem to remember Team Clark stating the exact opposite last year. Maybe Ross has made some changes this year, but TC was saying the pitch sequence called by Ross was very predictable last year.

Dunner44
04-12-2007, 10:00 AM
I seem to remember Team Clark stating the exact opposite last year. Maybe Ross has made some changes this year, but TC was saying the pitch sequence called by Ross was very predictable last year.

Interesting. I thought his rep was as a guy who called a good game. But TC obviously knows a lot more about baseball than me.

Chip R
04-12-2007, 10:29 AM
Plenty of love for Matt Belisle; I think he's our #3 SP now. He definitely has a better plan of attack this year, IMO.


You should be the manager then cause Lohse is 3, Milton 4 and Belisle 5. :bang:

2001MUgrad
04-12-2007, 10:32 AM
I always thought Belisle had the stuff and has some very nice pitches. Maybe he is starting to put it together.

Heath
04-12-2007, 10:34 AM
I'm sure SuperBarry will be lurking from her perch in California and is grinning ear to ear.

Dunner44
04-12-2007, 10:41 AM
You should be the manager then cause Lohse is 3, Milton 4 and Belisle 5. :bang:

Belisle is 4, Milton is 5.... Uncle Milty will get skipped when the opportunity arrises. Belisle won't. But Belisle won't pitch for a while because its a little to early to be pitching Arroyo and Harang on short rest.

I think this quote from the Post pretty much sums up Mitlon's role until he is DFAed:


What are the Reds expecting out of Eric Milton? Apparently not much.

Before Wednesday's game, this is what Narron had to say about the beleaguered left-hander:

"Milton, the other day, he did fine. Pitching in the fifth spot, a lot of clubs would like to have a fifth starter get them to the fifth, sixth inning every time and I definitely think Milty can do that."

Milton went 5 2/3 innings on Sunday, giving up four runs and 10 hits, picking up the loss to the Pirates.

BRM
04-12-2007, 10:43 AM
Belisle is 4, Milton is 5.... Uncle Milty will get skipped when the opportunity arrises. Belisle won't. But Belisle won't pitch for a while because its a little to early to be pitching Arroyo and Harang on short rest.

I think this quote from the Post pretty much sums up Mitlon's role until he is DFAed:

They have an opportunity to skip Milton this weekend but they aren't. They are just pushing him back a day or two (he pitches Monday). Belisle gets an extra day off.

boognish
04-12-2007, 10:52 AM
Looking very solid so far with his fastball/slider power mix. He seems to have put his curve on the back burner -- is it my imagination, or is he throwing it a lot less than before?

I'm very encouraged by Belisle.

I don't think it is your imagination, I noticed this as well. I didn't see him throw more than 5 in his first start, and he was able to locate the dozen he threw last night down in the zone.

I once subscribed to the school that Belisle should scrap his curve altogether because he hung far too many of them...I have always been quite critical of him. I don't know if the success with this pitch is because his back is at 100% for the first time in a long time, because he relies on the curve less frequently, or if Pole has had him make some adjustments to help him keep the ball low in the zone.

That said, the results speak for themselves to this point. I called his start Friday night against the Pirates the best I had seen in person by a Red in GABP, and I will stand by that until someone looks better. At this point, even with the great start, I will still be THRILLED if Belisle can give 30 starts and keep his rate statistics (ERA, HR/9, BB/9) above league average. Good results from Matt could vault the Reds to serious contention in the division for the balance of the season.

Blitz Dorsey
04-12-2007, 11:03 AM
I love Matt Belisle.

(Especially when he's throwing first-pitch strikes.)

UGADaddy
04-12-2007, 11:30 AM
I love Matt Belisle.

(Especially when he's throwing first-pitch strikes.)

Kudos on that. I think he's turning into a solid middle of the rotation starter. Now Milton could only come down with a mysterious injury that would send him to the DL, maybe we could try someone else at the 5 starter. Saarloos or Santos? A call to Louisville perhaps?

marcshoe
04-12-2007, 11:32 AM
I've been saying put Belisle in the rotation for a couple of years now, mostly because I thought he had some potential and the Reds were sending out a bunch of dead-enders. So far, so good.

Degenerate39
04-12-2007, 11:34 AM
Belisle continues to impress me. So far he's been a tough pitcher and I hope he continues pitching well.

UK Reds Fan
04-12-2007, 11:40 AM
I just am really impresses with the job the interim GM did (Kullman I believe) did in the firesale a few years back.

Aaron Harang for Jose Guillen
Matt Belisle for Mercker...who we ended up getting back.
Brandon Clausen for Boone..DIdn't work out the way we hoped for Clausen, but a good bet at the time that had the arm injury last year, but we did get one solid season of starting pitching out of Claussen.

Kullman did an incredible job IMO.

KronoRed
04-12-2007, 11:41 AM
He should have been starting last year.

Always Red
04-12-2007, 11:43 AM
I just am really impresses with the job the interim GM did (Kullman I believe) did in the firesale a few years back.

Aaron Harang for Jose Guillen
Matt Belisle for Mercker...who we ended up getting back.
Brandon Clausen for Boone..DIdn't work out the way we hoped for Clausen, but a good bet at the time that had the arm injury last year, but we did get one solid season of starting pitching out of Claussen.

Kullman did an incredible job IMO.

I agree with you, those were nice moves; but Kullman is not working in baseball, right now, to my knowledge. I'm sure there is a reason; I don't know it. Maybe TC does? ;)

Dunner44
04-12-2007, 12:03 PM
I agree with you, those were nice moves; but Kullman is not working in baseball, right now, to my knowledge. I'm sure there is a reason; I don't know it. Maybe TC does? ;)

Well, his second go round didn't do so hot... Rick White, Whats his face that was on the DL all last year, etc.

Caveat Emperor
04-12-2007, 01:49 PM
I've been saying put Belisle in the rotation for a couple of years now, mostly because I thought he had some potential and the Reds were sending out a bunch of dead-enders. So far, so good.

He throws hard and has pretty good control. The issue I've always seen with Belisle is that he had a tough time figuring out what to do with hitters when he got ahead of them. He's improved greatly throwing his slider as an "out" pitch, especially when he throws it to right-handers and it breaks out of the zone late.

I'm happy that he's throwing well -- it makes my decision to purchase one of the game-worn Belisle jerseys at RedsFest seem all the better.

fisch11
04-12-2007, 01:56 PM
Everybody knew that Matt had the stuff and stamina to be a starter. I just think he has finally learned how to "pitch" with his stuff, and to control his pitches much better. He still looks like he doesn't know what he wants to throw when he is ahead, but he will get more comfortable with that getting the ball every 5th day. Let's hope he stays healthy and keeps it up.

membengal
04-12-2007, 02:04 PM
Sometimes pitchers come on late. And with great results. Given Belisle's really solid stuff, I get to legitimately hope that is what is happening in this case. If so, sweetness...

jimbo
04-12-2007, 02:18 PM
He should have been starting last year.

I think the problem last season was that he couldn't stay healthy long enough to even consider being put in the rotation. I've said it before, if his back stays strong he is going to have a great season.

Ron Madden
04-12-2007, 03:03 PM
I have always wanted Belisle to be given a fair shot in the rotation.

He has done a fine job so far, I just hope they stick with him if/after he has a bad outing. Matt is still young with a lot of upside.

Superdude
04-12-2007, 05:33 PM
Does anyone know when he became a fastball/slider guy? Belisle had a filthy curve last year, but he basically never got it over the plate. Did he scrap the curve and pick up the slider all this offseason?

OnBaseMachine
04-12-2007, 06:05 PM
Matt looks great. He's always had the stuff to be a good major league pitcher and so far this year he is showing it. I look for it to continue. His fastball is reaching 94 mph again, his slider looks very good and his changeup has also served him well against lefties.

RedsManRick
04-12-2007, 06:12 PM
I know he's been around a bit, but he just turns 27 in June. If he can stay healthy, we're about to get the best few years of his career and assuming he stays full time, I don't think he'll even be arb eligible until after 2008.

Good teams sometimes get lucky. If Belisle can prove to be a league average starter and Bailey develops as expected, we're in GREAT shape moving forward in the rotation.