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fisch11
04-12-2007, 03:27 PM
I was listening to the Arizona announcers on Extra Innings last night, and they were talking about how great of a SS Alex Gonzalez is after that beautifully attempted DP. One announcer mentioned something like, "It's amazing to think that this kid has never won a Gold Glove." And talked about how someday he would win one. This got me curious as to how he ranks against past Gold Glove winners.

Below are the career fielding percentages at SS from past Gold Glove winners
D. Jeter .975 FP
A. Rodriquez .974
O. Vizquel .984
B. Larkin .975
E. Renteria .969
R. Ordonez .976
O. Smith .978
D. Concepcion .971
C. Ripken .979
A. Gonzalez .970

So I guess it's not as shocking as I originally thought that he hasn't won any, but he does have a better career fielding percentage than Renteria (who won 2 Gold Gloves). From what I've seen of this guy, it is hard to believe that he doesn't have one in his trophy case, but the numbers aren't convincing.

And just for fun, Maury Wills won a couple with a .963 ;)

Discuss...

pahster
04-12-2007, 03:31 PM
Fielding percentage is about as worthless a stat as any. It doesn't take into account the range of a fielder and it makes use of errors, which are almost entirely subjective in nature.

Not that it matters. You have to be a good hitter to win a Gold Glove anyway.

registerthis
04-12-2007, 03:35 PM
Not that it matters. You have to be a good hitter to win a Gold Glove anyway.

Sometimes you don't even have to play defense.

See: Palmeiro, Rafael

Cedric
04-12-2007, 03:35 PM
When Palmeiro won the gold glove after playing 28 games at 1b the award was finished.

They should just do away with it.

redsrule2500
04-12-2007, 03:57 PM
When Palmeiro won the gold glove after playing 28 games at 1b the award was finished.

They should just do away with it.

Are you serious? That's the stupidest thing I've heard in a while!

TRF
04-12-2007, 03:58 PM
When Palmeiro won the gold glove after playing 28 games at 1b the award was finished.

They should just do away with it.

No, the award still has merit, but the system flat sucks. Should be a weighted vote. Players, Managers, Sportswriters and fans. Well, maybe not fans. They're idiots.

jojo
04-12-2007, 04:05 PM
No, the award still has merit, but the system flat sucks. Should be a weighted vote. Players, Managers, Sportswriters and fans. Well, maybe not fans. They're idiots.

I agree the voting system sucks but we also have to remember that measuring defense has traditionally been neglected and/or just hard to do. So alot of the voting has been heavily influenced by the eyes which we all know can lie-especially when the majority of voters are voting for guys they may have only seen for 10 games that season (so a great play is really magnified in significance). Also, unfortunately (and paradoxically) player's bats have also influenced the vote.

This I think will all change as play by play data allows the creation/perfection of highly accurate defensive metrics.... (at which point sportswriters should be dropped completely form the vote... :thumbup: )

Anyway, Gonzo is good but he's no Yuni Bettancourt :cool:

M2
04-12-2007, 04:12 PM
Gonzalez probably will get to go down in the history books as one of the better SS defenders never to win a GG, along with guys like Greg Gagne and Ivan DeJesus.

Jose Reyes is probably about to take over that award for the next five years or so. The NL also has Adam Everett, Khalil Greene, Cesar Izturis, Jack Wilson, J.J. Hardy, Jimmy Rollins and the timeless wonder that is Omar Vizquel slapping around the leather at SS. It's a packed house.

RedsManRick
04-12-2007, 04:46 PM
Derek Jeter and Ozzie Smith have roughly the same Fielding %. That should tell you all you need to know about it's value as a stat to judge defense as a whole. It's like giving Freddy Sanchez the MVP since he had the highest batting average. Clearly, the kinds of hits you got, when you got them, and how many opportunities you had to get them matter - the same can be said for fielding. Jeter doesn't get errors on the balls he simply can't get to because of his mediocre lateral movement.

The best SS in baseball right now is Adam Everett and it's not really close. Unfortunately he doesn't hit well enough to win a gold glove. Go figure. Jeter can explain how that works.

M2
04-12-2007, 05:08 PM
Derek Jeter and Ozzie Smith have roughly the same Fielding %. That should tell you all you need to know about it's value as a stat to judge defense as a whole. It's like giving Freddy Sanchez the MVP since he had the highest batting average. Clearly, the kinds of hits you got, when you got them, and how many opportunities you had to get them matter - the same can be said for fielding. Jeter doesn't get errors on the balls he simply can't get to because of his mediocre lateral movement.

The best SS in baseball right now is Adam Everett and it's not really close. Unfortunately he doesn't hit well enough to win a gold glove. Go figure. Jeter can explain how that works.

To be fair, Jeter's got very good hands and an accurate arm. I agree his range leaves something to be desired, but he's a clean fielder.

Everett had a stellar 2006 in the field, but he wasn't playing defense at that level in previous seasons and my guess is he won't be back to that level again in 2007. Neifi Perez had a year like that in 2000. Everything wound up in his glove. For my money, Reyes is the emerging gold standard. Plus, he can hit. The Gold Glove is his for the taking.

Degenerate39
04-12-2007, 06:09 PM
Gonzo and BP will win the Gold Glove this year. Mark it down

Johnny Footstool
04-12-2007, 06:38 PM
For my money, Reyes is the emerging gold standard. Plus, he can hit. The Gold Glove is his for the taking.

If only Reyes played in a bigger media market...

Cedric
04-12-2007, 06:51 PM
Are you serious? That's the stupidest thing I've heard in a while!

Thanks.

M2
04-12-2007, 07:58 PM
If only Reyes played in a bigger media market...

He doesn't lack for advantages.

He's awesome in the field anyway, but add in the bat and national exposure and I'd say he may already have a lock on the Gold Glove. For the next six years or so it's his world and we just live in it.

Highlifeman21
04-13-2007, 09:28 PM
To be fair, Jeter's got very good hands and an accurate arm. I agree his range leaves something to be desired, but he's a clean fielder.

Everett had a stellar 2006 in the field, but he wasn't playing defense at that level in previous seasons and my guess is he won't be back to that level again in 2007. Neifi Perez had a year like that in 2000. Everything wound up in his glove. For my money, Reyes is the emerging gold standard. Plus, he can hit. The Gold Glove is his for the taking.

I respectfully disagree about Jeter's arm. IMO, it's sorta strong but not very accurate. To his credit, he's creative in ways he plays balls by not only how he gets to them, but what he does with them. He's very good at bouncing his throw off the turf, and he's made quite the highlight reel collection of jump throws. His creativity makes up for his obvious lack of range.

edabbs44
04-13-2007, 09:51 PM
It's like giving Freddy Sanchez the MVP since he had the highest batting average.

Sanchez takes so much abuse on this board. I'm starting to feel bad for the guy. He led the league in hitting last year and you'd think he killed a panda bear or something.

Heath
04-13-2007, 10:04 PM
I'd ask this question as stupid.

All fielding percentages aside, how does a Gonzo rate with a Vizquel?

That's a question I'd like to know, but don't have the foggiest to calculate.

GAC
04-14-2007, 05:21 AM
The GG award is bogus IMHO.

M2
04-14-2007, 07:49 PM
I respectfully disagree about Jeter's arm. IMO, it's sorta strong but not very accurate.

He's going to retire with at least a .975 fielding % at SS. It's the same figure that Larkin retired with, better than guys like Luis Aparicio and Roy McMillan. He's not quite Tony Fernandez or Larry Bowa, but Jeter's going down in the books as one of the cleanest fielding shortstops ever to play the game and you don't make that cut if you don't have an accurate arm.