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EddieMilner
04-16-2007, 10:12 AM
I was at both the Saturday and Sunday Games at Wrigley. On Saturday I drank way to much, so I don't really have much to add. BUT I was then not in the mood to drink for Sundays game and paid better attention. Here are my questions from the weekend:

1. Saturday Game - Was the game thread flipping out when they IBB Ward to get to Soriano? I can only imagine.
2. Sundays Game - from my seats it looked like the Ump had a pretty pitcher generous strike zone, was that the case? I haven't seen that many looking Ks in a long time.
3. Both games the wind was blowing in pretty good, on Saturday only Dunn would've been able to take one for a ride. I would say that there were a handful of pop ups that would've gone out if the wind was blowing out, or not blowing in so hard.
4. Lohse - 114 pitches seemed like a lot in mid april.
5. Hamilton - he didn't look comfortable at the plate.
6. Ross - He looked abysmal at the plate.
7. Wuertz completely owned the Reds.

Highlifeman21
04-16-2007, 10:16 AM
I was at both the Saturday and Sunday Games at Wrigley. On Saturday I drank way to much, so I don't really have much to add. BUT I was then not in the mood to drink for Sundays game and paid better attention. Here are my questions from the weekend:

1. Saturday Game - Was the game thread flipping out when they IBB Ward to get to Soriano? I can only imagine.
2. Sundays Game - from my seats it looked like the Ump had a pretty pitcher generous strike zone, was that the case? I haven't seen that many looking Ks in a long time.
3. Both games the wind was blowing in pretty good, on Saturday only Dunn would've been able to take one for a ride. I would say that there were a handful of pop ups that would've gone out if the wind was blowing out, or not blowing in so hard.
4. Lohse - 114 pitches seemed like a lot in mid april.
5. Hamilton - he didn't look comfortable at the plate.
6. Ross - He looked abysmal at the plate.
7. Wuertz completely owned the Reds.

This is his emerging trend for 2007.

redsmetz
04-16-2007, 10:19 AM
A few thoughts.

I didn't get a chance to hear much of Saturday's game and I missed Sunday's entirely. In the newspaper on Sunday, but Arroyo talked about how he has owned Soriano (to the tune of .127 BA, I think the paper said), so he believed that was a good match up. Of course, baseball is a game where anything can happen).

In today's paper, they talked about how much Lohse and Ross were in sync. It was noted that such a thing is a big plus, Ross's batting woes notwithstanding. I think it's too early to toss him or some of the other guys struggling overboard. Time may well ultimately prove some RZ posters correct that 2006 was David Ross's "career year", but it's early in the season.

You mentioned Hamilton not looking comfortable. I have to wonder how many folks are looking comfortable overall. This weather has been brutal in the northern games. I'm anxious to see how we do once things warm up (they are forecasting some warming trend this season, right?).

registerthis
04-16-2007, 10:22 AM
This is his emerging trend for 2007.

He looks as bad as anyone I've ever seen with the bat right now--totally, completely lost.

2 weeks is too small a sample size to make any pronouncements as to his season-long numbers, but you have to wonder how long Narron will continue to play him with numbers like that.

osuceltic
04-16-2007, 10:33 AM
Ross is clearly opening up that front shoulder too early. You know it's drastic when you can see it on TV. A lot of guys have struggled with that over the years. It takes a lot of work in the cage, but you can fix it.

Encarnacion is struggling almost as badly. His bat looks really slow. He's late on everything. Not sure what his problem is.

Hamilton looks overmatched most of the time. He's not ready to be a regular.

kaldaniels
04-16-2007, 10:51 AM
Ross is clearly opening up that front shoulder too early. You know it's drastic when you can see it on TV. A lot of guys have struggled with that over the years. It takes a lot of work in the cage, but you can fix it.

Encarnacion is struggling almost as badly. His bat looks really slow. He's late on everything. Not sure what his problem is.

Hamilton looks overmatched most of the time. He's not ready to be a regular.


I disagree on Hamilton...he has shown to have a really good eye at the plate, especially down in the count...was it his best series ever...no, but overmatched is not the word I would use.

Always Red
04-16-2007, 10:56 AM
Well, the hitting, especially RH hitting is a problem no question. But hopefully, these 3 guys are just slumping at the same time and will break out.

After the weekend games, the bad news is that the Reds are dead last in hitting (.226) and 11th out of 16 in runs scored.

The good news is that the Reds rank 2nd in ERA (2.93) and 6th in fielding percentage. Belisle and Lohse, who were counted on heavily to fill in SP spots, have generally outpitched the staff aces, Arroyo and Harang, to this point in the very short season. I would nto expect this to continue, but I sure do like what I see so far.

The new look Reds can hit like total crap and yet still win games. Go figure!?!

Redsland
04-16-2007, 11:06 AM
2. Sundays Game - from my seats it looked like the Ump had a pretty pitcher generous strike zone, was that the case?
It was big, but it was consistent. (At least until Weathers got into the game. Then it shrank.)

4. Lohse - 114 pitches seemed like a lot in mid april.
That's why Narron said he went to the bullpen, despite the four-hit shutout.

5. Hamilton - he didn't look comfortable at the plate.
6. Ross - He looked abysmal at the plate.
Agreed.

kaldaniels
04-16-2007, 11:14 AM
It was big, but it was consistent. (At least until Weathers got into the game. Then it shrank.)

That's why Narron said he went to the bullpen, despite the four-hit shutout.

Agreed.

I thought the ump called Weathers just fine compared to Loshe...one pitch was borderline but the others by Stormy weren't close.

coachw513
04-16-2007, 11:20 AM
He looks as bad as anyone I've ever seen with the bat right now--totally, completely lost.

2 weeks is too small a sample size to make any pronouncements as to his season-long numbers, but you have to wonder how long Narron will continue to play him with numbers like that.

Not that I'm a Tim McCarver fan, but with him as a former catcher, it caught my ear something he said during Saturday's Angels-Red Sox broadcast...in discussing Jason Varitek's slow start, he said he wondered how ANY catcher gets off to a good start to the season...he said in spring training #1 catchers are TOTALLY involved in catching all the guys on the staff and working with them and often BP is the last thing they get to deal with during a day...

It's interesting to note that last spring Ross wasn't having those major responsibilities and Larue was...

Would be interesting to see the avg ML catcher splits from April compared to end of season numbers (oh I can see some of you now :D )

Hopefully he'll break out of it...:pray:

DTCromer
04-16-2007, 11:21 AM
The biggest problem with Ross/Freel and others who are struggling mightily at the plate is their pitch selection. Ross had a 3-1 count in his last AB and swung at ball four. Then on the full count, he looked at a pitch down broadway. It's just a mental thing at this point.

OesterPoster
04-16-2007, 11:25 AM
Until Hamilton can prove he can hit major league lefty breaking stuff, he'll look like he did yesterday. He still works the count really well, and it just seems like he'll rip a pitch any time. You can almost see him thinking each AB and each pitch, putting it away in his mind and saying, "Okay, you got me on that one, but not next time."

bucksfan2
04-16-2007, 12:07 PM
The biggest problem with Ross/Freel and others who are struggling mightily at the plate is their pitch selection. Ross had a 3-1 count in his last AB and swung at ball four. Then on the full count, he looked at a pitch down broadway. It's just a mental thing at this point.

Freel has never been a paitent hitter. When he is going good he is a good leadoff but when he is going bad he is normally a quick out. As for Hamilton and his hitting I heard that he steps up to every at bat thinking he has a 0-2 count. Give him time and atbats and he will be ok.

Ludwig Reds Fan
04-16-2007, 12:13 PM
Ross is clearly opening up that front shoulder too early. You know it's drastic when you can see it on TV. A lot of guys have struggled with that over the years. It takes a lot of work in the cage, but you can fix it.

Encarnacion is struggling almost as badly. His bat looks really slow. He's late on everything. Not sure what his problem is.

Hamilton looks overmatched most of the time. He's not ready to be a regular.


I keep hearing things like this about quite a few Reds players.

Don't we have a hitting coach? :confused:

Redsland
04-16-2007, 12:17 PM
Don't we have a hitting coach? :confused:
Adam Dunn does. I'm not sure about the other guys. ;)

EddieMilner
04-16-2007, 12:17 PM
Did anyone see that replay of EE getting hit? Since I was at the game I couldn't tell.

George Anderson
04-16-2007, 12:18 PM
Did anyone see that replay of EE getting hit? Since I was at the game I couldn't tell.

I am suprised EE didnt get first base on the play and I am kinda suprised and a little disappointed Narron didnt put up more of an argument.

UGADaddy
04-16-2007, 12:20 PM
2. Sundays Game - from my seats it looked like the Ump had a pretty pitcher generous strike zone, was that the case? I haven't seen that many looking Ks in a long time.

Indeed. I thought DLee had an argument one of his Ks. But Lohse stayed around the plate all day, so he was going to get close calls down the stretch. And the zone looked equally big for each team.


4. Lohse - 114 pitches seemed like a lot in mid april.

Maybe, but he was on a roll. I liked the fact that Narron left him in for the eighth.


5. Hamilton - he didn't look comfortable at the plate.
6. Ross - He looked abysmal at the plate.

I agree with most of you. Hamilton looked bad on some breaking stuff, but I believe, as most do I think, that he's going to work that out and become a great player. I'm a little concerned over Ross, but what McCarver said may have some truth to it. It's only been two weeks. Give him another or two before we start calling for his job as starter.

UGADaddy
04-16-2007, 12:22 PM
Did anyone see that replay of EE getting hit? Since I was at the game I couldn't tell.

I was watching on WGN and it seemed like the announcers didn't want to show it because it may have made the Cubbies look bad. The pbp guy just said something to the effect of "Well, Encarnacion thought it hit him but it's a strikeout. We're headed to the bottom of the..." It seemed a little sketch and I really would have liked to see some more, slower angles. Anyone with TiVo get a good look?

EddieMilner
04-16-2007, 12:23 PM
I am suprised EE didnt get first base on the play and I am kinda suprised and a little disappointed Narron didnt put up more of an argument.

so it was a no question HBP on the replay?

Always Red
04-16-2007, 12:35 PM
so it was a no question HBP on the replay?

replay shows that the ball clearly did not hit the bat.

It did not show that it clearly hit his hand, but put his immediate reaction with the fact that it didn't hit the bat, and it hit him.

Barrett and the umpire both heard the double hit of the ball against his hand, and the ball in the mitt, and both assumed it was a foul ball. Bad call for the ump to assume.

George Anderson
04-16-2007, 12:35 PM
so it was a no question HBP on the replay?

I would say it was pretty obvious the ball hit him. EE reacted in pain immediately after the ball grazed his hand. Had the ball not hit EE and he was simply trying to get a free pass then his fake reaction of pain from being hit would have been more delayed. Had the catcher caught the ball and a second or two passed and then EE started shaking his hand in pain then yes he was faking, but EE or any other batter for that matter cant fake something that quick.

Narron should have raised a bit more hell over the call because it was bad.

redssouth
04-16-2007, 12:42 PM
There was really no question EE got hit on the hand. But, what is Narron going to do, all he can do is appeal to ask another umpire, but no ump is going to overrule that play. Who has the better view than the guy standing 3 feet from the batter? It was a blown call, but no need to get tossed and possibly swing the strike zone in the cubbies favor.

George Anderson
04-16-2007, 12:57 PM
There was really no question EE got hit on the hand. But, what is Narron going to do, all he can do is appeal to ask another umpire, but no ump is going to overrule that play. Who has the better view than the guy standing 3 feet from the batter? It was a blown call, but no need to get tossed and possibly swing the strike zone in the cubbies favor.

No doubt the play was going to stand. However a manager needs to make the point with a little more gumption than Narron showed that the call was missed.

Also no umpire is going to swing the zone in another teams favor over an ejection or any other conflict. MLB umpires are not perfect but they are professionals and are not going to sway a game towards another team over a personnal conflict.

Always Red
04-16-2007, 01:01 PM
Also no umpire is going to swing the zone in another teams favor over an ejection or any other conflict. MLB umpires are not perfect but they are professionals and are not going to sway a game towards another team over a personnal conflict.

Every ump is also a human being. If you ride him constantly about the strike zone during the course of the game, you just might not get those close calls at the end of the game- whether he's doing it on purpose or not.

George Anderson
04-16-2007, 01:06 PM
Every ump is also a human being. If you ride him constantly about the strike zone during the course of the game, you just might not get those close calls at the end of the game- whether he's doing it on purpose or not.

A MLB umpire will not allow anyone to ride him about his strike zone. Arguing balls and strikes is an automatic ejection.

Always Red
04-16-2007, 01:16 PM
Arguing balls and strikes is an automatic ejection.

Well, that's what the book says, anyway (thanks for the rules clarification!). But I see hitters questioning it every game I watch, George, as well as players and managers yelling from the dugout about the strike zone, don't you?? They're not all geting thrown out. Most umps will tolerate a bit of questioning, especially if you do not show him up publicly.

My point remains the same- if you give an ump too much of a hard time, it can come back and cost you when you really need him to be fair and impartial. It's about respect, if you don't respect the ump, he's not going to respect you back.

As much as we'd like for them to be machines, they are not.

George Anderson
04-16-2007, 01:29 PM
Most umps will tolerate a bit of questioning, especially if you do not show him up publicly.



You are right, if the player or coach questions it in a respectful manner then yes alot of times the umpire will let it go. However I take your comment of "riding him about the strike zone" not to be questioning the umpire in a respectful manner but instead screaming comments from the dugout every other inning about the zone. If a manager or player does this then they will not be around long.

bigredbunter
04-16-2007, 01:30 PM
My point remains the same- if you give an ump too much of a hard time, it can come back and cost you when you really need him to be fair and impartial. It's about respect, if you don't respect the ump, he's not going to respect you back.


Which was what the WGN announcers were saying on Sunday--Anyone else who watched the WGN broadcast notice that when EE looked plainly disgusted after a strike out looking during first AB, the Cubs broadcasters chided him for questioning balls and strikes; yet when Derek Lee looked miffed at a called strike an inning later, the umps applauded him for having a good knowledge of the strike zone and knowing how to question a called strike "the right way."

Always Red
04-16-2007, 02:01 PM
Which was what the WGN announcers were saying on Sunday--Anyone else who watched the WGN broadcast notice that when EE looked plainly disgusted after a strike out looking during first AB, the Cubs broadcasters chided him for questioning balls and strikes; yet when Derek Lee looked miffed at a called strike an inning later, the umps applauded him for having a good knowledge of the strike zone and knowing how to question a called strike "the right way."

Well, Derek Lee can do no wrong in Chicago!

EE does act a little bit too whiney at the plate, for my tastes. His facial expressions and body language show disgust at every call that doesn't go his way. I'd rather him just play the game, and not let the umps get under his skin. I don't blame him for arguing about the strikeout when the ball hit him, though.

Part of it is him going through a rough time right now, and part of it is just immaturity. I hope he grows out of it soon.

bigredbunter
04-16-2007, 02:10 PM
Well, Derek Lee can do no wrong in Chicago!

EE does act a little bit too whiney at the plate, for my tastes. His facial expressions and body language show disgust at every call that doesn't go his way. I'd rather him just play the game, and not let the umps get under his skin.

Completely agree--EE should take his lumps when it comes to balls&strikes--The blatant bias of the announcers was what made me roll my eyes.

Redsland
04-16-2007, 03:34 PM
Like anything, there's a right way and a wrong way to talk to the ump about his strike zone.

When he calls a high one, you can look anywhere but back at the ump and say something like, "Was that the top of the zone?" That gets your point across without challenging the ump's authority or showing him up on-camera. Plus, his answer tells you how to treat subsequent pitches.

Rolling your eyes and looking back in disgust and throwing things? That's trouble.