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View Full Version : Castellini on the "pitching and defense" approach



Matt700wlw
04-16-2007, 04:09 PM
Lonnie Wheeler, Cincinnati Post

Krivsky was willing to make that exchange on the basis that his principles, which blend nicely with Narron's, involve winning with pitching and defense. They're sound principles, and will not be disputed here.
But will they bring the folks back to the fold? In this age of home run highlights and video-game sensibilities, can a team draw - can a franchise prosper - with an emphasis on pitching and defense?


"It's a good question to mull over," said Castellini. "But wins are where you have to start. Whatever your game plan is, you're after the W. You can't just be after crowd-pleasing home runs all the time. You've got to win.

"Some of the greatest thrills I've ever had in my life, as a spectator, were watching those walk-off home runs. Are you kidding me? You can't get a better thrill than that. But I think a fan would rather go home winning 2-1 than losing 9-8. In Cincinnati, they've been at it for a long time. They don't like to be had. You'll get excitement for a winner.

Redsland
04-16-2007, 04:21 PM
If Castellini were single…and my age…and a woman…

:luvu:

Mario-Rijo
04-16-2007, 06:17 PM
"It's a good question to mull over," said Castellini. "But wins are where you have to start. Whatever your game plan is, you're after the W. You can't just be after crowd-pleasing home runs all the time. You've got to win.

"Some of the greatest thrills I've ever had in my life, as a spectator, were watching those walk-off home runs. Are you kidding me? You can't get a better thrill than that. But I think a fan would rather go home winning 2-1 than losing 9-8. In Cincinnati, they've been at it for a long time. They don't like to be had. You'll get excitement for a winner.


Outstanding stuff, Castellini has fans down to a science. Way to go Big Bobper!!! :thumbup:

Johnny Footstool
04-16-2007, 06:21 PM
But I think a fan would rather go home winning 2-1 than losing 9-8. In Cincinnati, they've been at it for a long time. They don't like to be had. You'll get excitement for a winner.

I'd rather go home winning 6-1. The results of 1-run games are mostly based on luck.

jojo
04-16-2007, 06:31 PM
I'd rather go home winning 6-1. The results of 1-run games are mostly based on luck.

I'd rather go home from a game with a blond on one arm and a brunette on the other after having had free beer all game and a foot massage during the 7th inning stretch while sitting in box seats as players pile their game-used swag in the trunk of my aston martin db9...

But since that really only happens to me maybe 3 to 4 times out of ten trips to GABP, i'll take winning 2-1 over losing 9-8.

:beerme:

kaldaniels
04-16-2007, 06:50 PM
I'd rather go home winning 6-1. The results of 1-run games are mostly based on luck.

Not the point.

oneupper
04-16-2007, 06:57 PM
I'd rather go home winning 6-1. The results of 1-run games are mostly based on luck.

I agree. There seems to be some sort of general perception that if you win 9-8 you got lucky, but if you win 2-1 you somehow earned it.

It's the same.

Those 6-1 games are the ones that say you're a better team.

vaticanplum
04-16-2007, 07:01 PM
If Castellini were single…and my age…and a woman…

The problem with you, Redsland, is that you are too close-minded.

Team Clark
04-16-2007, 08:43 PM
Outstanding stuff, Castellini has fans down to a science. Way to go Big Bobper!!! :thumbup:

I need more $1 Hot Dogs Mr. C !!!:laugh:

Team Clark
04-16-2007, 08:44 PM
I'd rather go home from a game with a blond on one arm and a brunette on the other after having had free beer all game and a foot massage during the 7th inning stretch while sitting in box seats as players pile their game-used swag in the trunk of my aston martin db9...

But since that really only happens to me maybe 3 to 4 times out of ten trips to GABP, i'll take winning 2-1 over losing 9-8.

:beerme:

Ohhh I see how you are... Excluding Red Heads! :laugh:

dougdirt
04-16-2007, 10:34 PM
Ohhh I see how you are... Excluding Red Heads! :laugh:

Dont mind Jojo, he is a Hater! :p:

harangatang
04-16-2007, 10:41 PM
Lonnie Wheeler, Cincinnati Post

Krivsky was willing to make that exchange on the basis that his principles, which blend nicely with Narron's, involve winning with pitching and defense. They're sound principles, and will not be disputed here.
But will they bring the folks back to the fold? In this age of home run highlights and video-game sensibilities, can a team draw - can a franchise prosper - with an emphasis on pitching and defense?


"It's a good question to mull over," said Castellini. "But wins are where you have to start. Whatever your game plan is, you're after the W. You can't just be after crowd-pleasing home runs all the time. You've got to win.

"Some of the greatest thrills I've ever had in my life, as a spectator, were watching those walk-off home runs. Are you kidding me? You can't get a better thrill than that. But I think a fan would rather go home winning 2-1 than losing 9-8. In Cincinnati, they've been at it for a long time. They don't like to be had. You'll get excitement for a winner.You know tonight's game was more exciting than Sunday's game even though the Reds lost tonight and won on Sunday. Sure the Reds lost tonight but there were 16 runs scored in between the 2 teams. Sunday's game featured all of 1 RUN BETWEEN THE TWO TEAMS! It looks good on the stats page to have the Reds with a .500 road trip but as far as entertainment goes...BLECH... If Castellini wants to bring in the casual fan he's not going to be bringing in alot without an offensive explosion. And it appears that ain't going to happen...

remdog
04-16-2007, 10:45 PM
Dont mind Jojo, he is a Hater! :p:

Cut the guy some slack! After all, the man only has two arms! :p:

Rem

Ltlabner
04-17-2007, 08:24 AM
If Castellini wants to bring in the casual fan he's not going to be bringing in alot without an offensive explosion. And it appears that ain't going to happen...

Ummm...we've had an explosive offense for the past number of year up until now and attendence amoungst the casual fan did not increase. I think we've shown that lots of runs doesn't equate to much in terms of wins or attendence.

Casual fans want entertainment. Because everybody's definition of what is an entertaining game differs (lots of runs, close games, pitchers duel, blow out) why not focus on the one thing that most people really find entertaining on some level: a winning team?

jojo
04-17-2007, 08:44 AM
Dont mind Jojo, he is a Hater! :p:

My wife is a redhead....already got that one covered....

:cool:

bucksfan2
04-17-2007, 09:14 AM
1-0 Games are a toss up. You are probably going to win about 50% of the time when a game is that close. I dont mind the pitching and defense scheme if you can score 3-4 runs a night. The past few games this team is starting to resemble the astros of the past few years offensively but doesn't have the pitching staff to go along with that. They have 3 players (Hatte, Dunn, and Hamilton) who have shown the ability to work the count. They have 3 players (Freel, Phillips, and EE) who have shown the reluctance to work a count and are jumping at the first good pitch they see. In order to play the "pitching and defense" game they need to play better fundamental baseball and so far I dont see them doing that.

Johnny Footstool
04-17-2007, 10:05 AM
Not the point.

The "point" Castellini is making is that winning is better than losing. Wow, big shock.

I'm arguing against this hypothetical "either-or" situation constructed to defend his approach. He seems to believe that pitching and defense can only be acquired at the expense of offense. I'm pointing out that it's not the case.

Cooper
04-17-2007, 10:27 AM
I do think managers would rather lose 2-1 than 9-8. They are able to control the variables more when the score is 2-1. When the score is 9-8, there are so many things going on that they can't factor it all in their heads and stay ahead of the game.

I've always had a theory that the "best" managers win more high scoring 1 run games than the lessor managers. Based on more options that have to be juggled and accounted for -they can keep the game in front of them and account for all that might happen. Whereas, the "worst" managers tend to use too many 1 run strategies in high scoring games, so as to keep things under control.

I guess it's the difference between a collage basketball coach that calls every play in a low scoring game and a guy that just sits on the bench in a high scoring game knowing he implemented a good system -and let's the game play out because he knows what works for him and his team.

Brian Gregory the Dayton Flyers coach is an example of the first kind of coach. He would love for the score to be 21-20 because that way he could control every dang minute of the game. He literally pulls a player over to talk to them on every single play, possession, cough...his players have no idea what he'll bring up next cause he's always talking. They are asked to do a million things and the things are all equally important!!!!! Very important!!! (sarcasm).

A baseball manager does the same thing when he asks players to do things they don't do well--he has no belief in his system and he has to control everything. So he might ask Adam Dunn to bunt with a 2 men on and no one out. Adam can't bunt. If he did, it still would be a bad decision. And the next time Adam is up in this situation he doesn't know what his role (job) wil be.

westofyou
04-17-2007, 10:40 AM
I do think managers would rather lose 2-1 than 9-8.

Yep... and it once was HUGE part of the Reds approach to the game.

http://www.gfg.com/baseball/40cr17.jpg

Cooper
04-17-2007, 11:12 AM
u got me....bill mckechnick (butchered spelling).

Johnny Footstool
04-17-2007, 12:26 PM
I do think managers would rather lose 2-1 than 9-8.

Low-scoring 1-run games give them the illusion of more control than high-scoring 1-run games. I'm sure Mensa Bob Boone loved micro-managing those low-scoring affairs and showing how smart he was.

Redsland
04-17-2007, 12:44 PM
Low-scoring 1-run games give them the illusion of more control than high-scoring 1-run games. I'm sure Mensa Bob Boone loved micro-managing those low-scoring affairs and showing how smart he was.
You mean like the time he put infielder Donnie Sadler in left field as a late-inning defensive replacement? Or the time he had Juan Castro and Bill Selby alternate between second and short depending on who the batter was?

:explode:

membengal
04-17-2007, 01:47 PM
Those are bad memories, redsland. Very bad.

Johnny Footstool
04-17-2007, 03:40 PM
You mean like the time he put infielder Donnie Sadler in left field as a late-inning defensive replacement? Or the time he had Juan Castro and Bill Selby alternate between second and short depending on who the batter was?

:explode:

What do you mean "the" time? He only did those things once? It seemed like he did them every other game.

That dude had a jittery set of synapses.

TC81190
04-17-2007, 04:01 PM
I like people who can hit.

Marge'sMullet
04-17-2007, 04:30 PM
1-0 Games are a toss up. You are probably going to win about 50% of the time when a game is that close. I dont mind the pitching and defense scheme if you can score 3-4 runs a night. The past few games this team is starting to resemble the astros of the past few years offensively but doesn't have the pitching staff to go along with that. They have 3 players (Hatte, Dunn, and Hamilton) who have shown the ability to work the count. They have 3 players (Freel, Phillips, and EE) who have shown the reluctance to work a count and are jumping at the first good pitch they see. In order to play the "pitching and defense" game they need to play better fundamental baseball and so far I dont see them doing that.

I think the reason you’re seeing Freel, Phillips and EE jumping on early pitches is because they aren't good breaking ball hitters. They like the fast ball and you usually see the fast ball early in the count.

They have to play to their strengths. I'm not justifying their ineffectiveness to hit the breaking ball. I'm just stating reason.

That being said, the REDS are going to start needing production from the right side of the plate. Ross, EE and Phillips need to come around. This is why the REDS are getting dominated by LHP. This team should easily have two more wins right now.

To bad Hamilton isn’t a right handed hitter.