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View Full Version : Can the Reds keep Jared Burton



Stingray
04-19-2007, 02:00 PM
61 Bronson Arroyo R/R 6-5 190 02/24/77 25 man roster
31 Matt Belisle R/R 6-3 195 06/06/80 25 man roster
* 45 Bill Bray L/L 6-3 215 06/05/83 15-day Disabled List

* 51 Jared Burton R/R 6-5 225 06/02/81 15-day Disabled List

56 Todd Coffey R/R 6-5 230 09/09/80 25 man roster(options?)
37 Rheal Cormier L/L 5-10 195 04/23/67 25 man roster(age 40)
40 Jon Coutlangus L/L 6-1 185 10/21/80 25 man roster(options?)
* 66 Phil Dumatrait R/L 6-2 170 07/12/81
* 81 Eddie Guardado R/L 6-0 205 10/02/70 60-day Disabled List

39 Aaron Harang R/R 6-7 270 05/09/78 25 man roster
* 75 Bobby Livingston L/L 6-3 195 09/03/82
28 Kyle Lohse R/R 6-2 200 10/04/78 25 man roster
* 38 Gary Majewski R/R 6-1 215 02/26/80
* 58 Calvin Medlock R/R 5-9 185 11/08/82
22 Eric Milton L/L 6-3 205 08/04/75 25 man roster
* 54 Elizardo Ramirez L/R 6-0 180 01/28/83 15-day Disabled list

35 Kirk Saarloos R/R 6-0 185 05/23/79 25 man roster
* 53 Brad Salmon L/R 6-3 230 01/03/80
57 Victor Santos R/R 6-2 205 10/02/76 25 man roster
* 37 Brian Shackelford L/L 6-1 195 08/30/76
29 Mike Stanton L/L 6-1 215 06/02/67 25 man roster(age 40-)
25 David Weathers R/R 6-3 230 09/25/69 25 man roster(age 36)



This question is currently on the back burner but its one that will have to be faced when Burton’s 30 day rehab is up. I want to find a way to keep him but it’s going to be really hard unless he performs very well with the Bats. Realistically six of our pitchers(in bold print above) seem unlikely to be cut or optioned(not withstanding Coffey’s last two appearances). Bray, Majewski, Dumatrait, and maybe Homer and Salmon are likely to be recalled within a couple of months. Those moves would use between 9-11 of the 12 available pitchers slots. So, barring injuries, to keep Burton between 3-5 of Comier, Coutlangus, Milton, Saarloos, Stanton, and Santos would have to be cut, traded or optioned in order to keep Burton on the 25 all year. It’s hard to see the Reds moving more than 3 of those guys.

If the club is out of the race it would be easier but we probably won’t know that early enough to be a factor.

A young power lefty like Burton could be a big asset for the Reds in the future. Any thoughts on how the keep him?

Joseph
04-19-2007, 02:07 PM
I like what Burton showed us in Spring Training and hope he can replicate it during the regular season.

The only options I see for keeping him are not pleasant, but may need to be done.

Obviously with Cormier we all seem to think he's expendable. Perhaps a deal can be worked to move him to a team that needs a lefty for a suspect prospect of sorts.

I can't see Stanton, Weathers or others going, so do you send down Coffey? Maybe.

Coutlangus? Possibly if you're willing to relegate stanton to lefty specialist.

Santos? Has he done anything to warrant it since becoming a Red? No, but like Ross, he has a track record that suggests this performance is an aberration.

Bray, Burton, Majewski all are going to be looking for spots sooner rather than later and there are some tough tough choices that will have to be made.

flyer85
04-19-2007, 02:08 PM
Simple answer is that if they are smart, yes.

He has some nasty off-speed pitches and has the potential to be a back of the bullpen pitcher, something the current pen lacks. It may take time but pitchers with his stuff don't just stroll by everyday.

Stingray
04-19-2007, 02:12 PM
Simple answer is that if they are smart, yes.

He has some nasty off-speed pitches and has the potential to be a back of the bullpen pitcher, something the current pen lacks. It may take time but pitchers with his stuff don't just stroll by everyday.

I couldn't agree more - but my question is what moves do the Reds make to permit keeping him?

flyer85
04-19-2007, 02:14 PM
I couldn't agree more - but my question is what moves do the Reds make to permit keeping him?I think you have to make room for Bray and Burton, which means that Cormier and someone else goes. I wouldn't mind them trading Stanton.

Rotater Cuff
04-19-2007, 02:19 PM
isn't cormier getting 2 million or so this year?

rotnoid
04-19-2007, 02:28 PM
I think you have to make room for Bray and Burton, which means that Cormier and someone else goes. I wouldn't mind them trading Stanton.

He might be the only one with any value right now, but as a free agent, Stanton can't be traded until June, IIRC.

deltachi8
04-19-2007, 02:31 PM
The easy way is if Santos remembers he is Victor Santos in the next couple weeks.

flyer85
04-19-2007, 02:32 PM
The easy way is if Santos remembers he is Victor Santos in the next couple weeks.it will happen at some point. Although these hot streaks can last a long time, especially if used in low leverage situations(like Cormier last year).

redsmetz
04-19-2007, 02:47 PM
61 Bronson Arroyo R/R 6-5 190 02/24/77 25 man roster
31 Matt Belisle R/R 6-3 195 06/06/80 25 man roster
* 45 Bill Bray L/L 6-3 215 06/05/83 15-day Disabled List

* 51 Jared Burton R/R 6-5 225 06/02/81 15-day Disabled List

56 Todd Coffey R/R 6-5 230 09/09/80 25 man roster(options?)
37 Rheal Cormier L/L 5-10 195 04/23/67 25 man roster(age 40)
40 Jon Coutlangus L/L 6-1 185 10/21/80 25 man roster(options?)
* 66 Phil Dumatrait R/L 6-2 170 07/12/81
* 81 Eddie Guardado R/L 6-0 205 10/02/70 60-day Disabled List

39 Aaron Harang R/R 6-7 270 05/09/78 25 man roster
* 75 Bobby Livingston L/L 6-3 195 09/03/82
28 Kyle Lohse R/R 6-2 200 10/04/78 25 man roster
* 38 Gary Majewski R/R 6-1 215 02/26/80
* 58 Calvin Medlock R/R 5-9 185 11/08/82
22 Eric Milton L/L 6-3 205 08/04/75 25 man roster
* 54 Elizardo Ramirez L/R 6-0 180 01/28/83 15-day Disabled list

35 Kirk Saarloos R/R 6-0 185 05/23/79 25 man roster
* 53 Brad Salmon L/R 6-3 230 01/03/80
57 Victor Santos R/R 6-2 205 10/02/76 25 man roster
* 37 Brian Shackelford L/L 6-1 195 08/30/76
29 Mike Stanton L/L 6-1 215 06/02/67 25 man roster(age 40-)
25 David Weathers R/R 6-3 230 09/25/69 25 man roster(age 36)



This question is currently on the back burner but its one that will have to be faced when Burton’s 30 day rehab is up. I want to find a way to keep him but it’s going to be really hard unless he performs very well with the Bats. Realistically six of our pitchers(in bold print above) seem unlikely to be cut or optioned(not withstanding Coffey’s last two appearances). Bray, Majewski, Dumatrait, and maybe Homer and Salmon are likely to be recalled within a couple of months. Those moves would use between 9-11 of the 12 available pitchers slots. So, barring injuries, to keep Burton between 3-5 of Comier, Coutlangus, Milton Saarloos, Stanton, and Santos would have to be cut, traded or optioned in order to keep Burton on the 25 all year. It’s hard to see the Reds moving more than 3 of those guys.

If the club is out of the race it would be easier but we probably won’t know that early enough to be a factor.

A young power lefty like Burton could be a big asset for the Reds in the future. Any thoughts on how the keep him?

I don't think it's a given that Dumatrait gets called up and I don't expect to see Homer in Cincinnati this season except as a spectator. Likewise, if Salmon comes up, he'll come up because there's a slot open. Bray & Maj will be problematic.

I don't think it's out of the question that if Toddy Coffey continues to struggle, that he will be optioned (presuming he's got options and I would think he does). Certainly Cormier could be moved, one way or another. It's a long season and we're going to do all we can to hang on to Burton, IMO.

RedsManRick
04-19-2007, 02:51 PM
I think they would outright cut Cormier before sending Burton back. More likely, Wayne gets a nothing prospect for him.

Sea Ray
04-19-2007, 02:52 PM
* 51 Jared Burton R/R 6-5 225 06/02/81 15-day Disabled List

A young power lefty like Burton could be a big asset for the Reds in the future. Any thoughts on how the keep him?

Of course Burton is right handed...

Stingray
04-19-2007, 02:57 PM
Of course Burton is right handed...


Sorry about that, I stand corrected, however, a pitcher with his potential is a definite upgrade to the talent level in the Reds organization.

Sea Ray
04-19-2007, 02:59 PM
Sorry about that, I stand corrected, however, a pitcher with his potential is a definite upgrade to the talent level in the Reds organization.

Yeah, they need to find a way to keep him but he needs to find a way to find home plate more often too. His career can't take too many more outings like his MLB debut.

dfs
04-19-2007, 03:04 PM
I think there is a difference between starters and relievers, so lets take the starters out of the mix....that leaves

* 51 Jared Burton R/R 6-5 225 06/02/81 15-day Disabled List

On the DL/in the minors and they have to "pass" burton on the depth chart
* 58 Calvin Medlock R/R 5-9 185 11/08/82
* 53 Brad Salmon L/R 6-3 230 01/03/80
* 37 Brian Shackelford L/L 6-1 195 08/30/76

On the DL/in the minors and they CAN stay there all year long and go boo-hoo.
* 45 Bill Bray L/L 6-3 215 06/05/83 15-day Disabled List
* 38 Gary Majewski R/R 6-1 215 02/26/80

On the DL/in the minors and will be called up when healthy.
* 81 Eddie Guardado R/L 6-0 205 10/02/70 60-day Disabled List

In the majors and not really optionable
37 Rheal Cormier L/L 5-10 195 04/23/67 25 man roster(age 40)
57 Victor Santos R/R 6-2 205 10/02/76 25 man roster
29 Mike Stanton L/L 6-1 215 06/02/67 25 man roster(age 40-)
25 David Weathers R/R 6-3 230 09/25/69 25 man roster(age 36)

In the majors and optionable.....they'll go boo-hoo.
56 Todd Coffey R/R 6-5 230 09/09/80 25 man roster(options?)
40 Jon Coutlangus L/L 6-1 185 10/21/80 25 man roster(options?)
35 Kirk Saarloos R/R 6-0 185 05/23/79 25 man roster

Somebody else could get hurt.
Somebody else could get "hurt." No, really. I'm hurt.
If he can find a trading partner for Cormier, move him for a ptbnl.
He can cut Cormier.
Santos could turn back into a pumpkin.
Coutlangus could be sent down.
Coffey could be sent down.
Saarloos could be sent down.
He could try and sneak Santos through waivers.

Stingray
04-19-2007, 03:06 PM
Yeah, they need to find a way to keep him but he needs to find a way to find home plate more often too. His career can't take too many more outings like his MLB debut.


This discussion assumes he's not quite ML ready. Control and experience are the downside of keeping him, but, if necessary, he can certiany be hidden on a 12 man pitching roster.

If he can perform now that's a bonus.

coachw513
04-19-2007, 04:01 PM
IIRC, Bray hasn't even begun throwing yet so his imminent recall isn't really so imminent...Coutlangus is the body overboard for Bray (when it should be Cormier), but it's really hard to say who is the body overboard for Majewski and Burton...I would suggest to Java-Man that he begin trying to hit Ross' mitt with as much frequency as opposing batters or he may be on the L'ville shuttle...

The value for Santos really can't be much higher than at present as well as he's pitched...do you look to trade him if possible for maybe a catching prospect to clear out some space???

Falls City Beer
04-19-2007, 04:09 PM
The bullpen solutions in the minors and on the DL aren't. Except for maybe Bailey.

TRF
04-19-2007, 04:17 PM
The bullpen solutions in the minors and on the DL aren't. Except for maybe Bailey.

you mean Bailey and Salmon.

REDREAD
04-19-2007, 04:46 PM
I couldn't agree more - but my question is what moves do the Reds make to permit keeping him?

Well, since Hamilton is contributing, that gives the Reds a lot more leeway. If Hamilton was struggling, it would be harder to keep Burton, because then the Reds would be playing with a 23 man roster essentially.

They've got some leeway to leave Maj and Bray in AAA until they perform well.

It looks like Cormier might be pitching himself to a DFA.

Coutlangus might be a candidate to option down as well, especially if Cormier is kept. We really don't need 3 lefties in the pen.

Or in a worse case scenerio, they could carry 13 pitchers occasionally. Hopper and Moeller have been the 25th man so far this season. It's not as if losing one of them off the roster would be that big of a deal. The bench is so weak that it really limits pinch hitting/substituions anyhow. Although, I'm not a big fan of this idea.. Just throwing it out there.

What I think is most likely is that the guys with options will be shuttled up and down during the year to keep Burton on the roster. I'm sure the Reds are hoping that after Burton finishes his rehab that he will be able to throw strikes with more regularity so that he can at least be used in mop up.

Falls City Beer
04-19-2007, 04:47 PM
Salmon's proven nothing.

TRF
04-19-2007, 05:27 PM
Salmon's proven nothing.

5 K's in 5.1 ip, 0.56 WHIP, a 0.00 ERA coming off a year at AAA with the following 2.34 ERA, 72 K's in 57 IP.

What exactly does he have LEFT to prove? He's proven a heckuva lot more than Bailey has to date.

lollipopcurve
04-19-2007, 05:34 PM
Burton better throw strikes in Louisville. If he doesn't, I think they'll return him without bringing him back up. The team is trying to win, and I doubt a middle-innings Rule Ver fits their roster strategy, especially a guy who struggles with command. You can hide an extra infielder or outfielder and get use out of him pinch running or on defense, but a pitcher is a different story.

Redsland
04-19-2007, 05:37 PM
isn't cormier getting 2 million or so this year?
$2.25 million this year with a club option for '08.

Stanton is in the first year of a two-year $5.5 million deal, so he'd be a tough person to cut if he started going all Chris Hammond on us.

Similarly, Weathers is in the first year of a two-year $5 million deal.

Falls City Beer
04-19-2007, 05:46 PM
5 K's in 5.1 ip, 0.56 WHIP, a 0.00 ERA coming off a year at AAA with the following 2.34 ERA, 72 K's in 57 IP.

What exactly does he have LEFT to prove? He's proven a heckuva lot more than Bailey has to date.

He's proven nothing at the majors. Go ahead and bring him up. I smell AAA lifer though. Like all Reds' AAA arms (perhaps excepting Bailey).

Caveat Emperor
04-19-2007, 05:51 PM
He's proven nothing at the majors. Go ahead and bring him up. I smell AAA lifer though. Like all Reds' AAA arms (perhaps excepting Bailey).

By definition, until someone gets an opportunity to pitch in the bigs they all have proven nothing at the majors.

Its kinda like telling a 5th grader that he's never proven he can hold down a real job.

Falls City Beer
04-19-2007, 05:54 PM
By definition, until someone gets an opportunity to pitch in the bigs they all have proven nothing at the majors.

Its kinda like telling a 5th grader that he's never proven he can hold down a real job.

Maybe I'm confusing him with someone else who was brought up briefly last year. That's probably the case.

I don't know: all the Reds' minor league arms are just one indiscriminate and stultifying blur.

Chip R
04-19-2007, 05:56 PM
A smart team would be able to keep Burton all year. I don't know if the Reds are smart, though.

fearofpopvol1
04-19-2007, 06:45 PM
I think a trade or an injury happens by the time this all comes to fruition. Definitely not hoping for the latter, just a gut instinct.

Dracodave
04-19-2007, 06:57 PM
Heres the good part of Burton.

He's an excuse to DFA Cormier.

Heres the best part of Bray.

He's an excuse to DFA anyone else who sucks in that bullpen.

TRF
04-20-2007, 10:25 AM
Maybe I'm confusing him with someone else who was brought up briefly last year. That's probably the case.

I don't know: all the Reds' minor league arms are just one indiscriminate and stultifying blur.

I don't believe he was called up last year. Just checked, and nope.

8+ K/9 in 2006. a 1.09 WHIP.

Again, he's a guy that misses bats. do the Reds have a guy in the bullpen that misses bats? Promote him, move Medlock to AAA as he has zero to prove in AA, and DFA anyone over 35. take your pick.

Sea Ray
04-20-2007, 11:17 AM
I don't believe he was called up last year. Just checked, and nope.

8+ K/9 in 2006. a 1.09 WHIP.

Again, he's a guy that misses bats. do the Reds have a guy in the bullpen that misses bats? Promote him, move Medlock to AAA as he has zero to prove in AA, and DFA anyone over 35. take your pick.

Isn't Medlock on the DL? I think I recall reading that he's out but I don't know the nature of his injury

TRF
04-20-2007, 04:20 PM
The last time he pitched was the 17th. 2.1 ip 1 H, 1 BB, 4 K's.

Mr. Ron
04-20-2007, 06:36 PM
What about Jon Coutlangus being sent down? He did nothing last night to impress me. RM

redsmetz
04-20-2007, 07:49 PM
What about Jon Coutlangus being sent down? He did nothing last night to impress me. RM

Yikes, this is a brutal crowd. One bad outing and you're on the scrap heap. Sheesh folks, let's play it out a little. It's too beautiful a day to be so glum.