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View Full Version : Reds hustling out of the box



Redlegs
04-19-2007, 07:46 PM
It's mighty nice to see the Reds players hustling out of the box following the Griffey, Encarnarcion, and Phillips episodes. I hope the tone has been set for the entire season. Maybe other teams will notice and follow their lead.

I mentioned the same view on another thread. Forgive me for being repetitive.

dougdirt
04-19-2007, 07:47 PM
hustle out of the box is overrated. I just want guys to hit the ball.

EddieMilner
04-20-2007, 10:28 AM
hustle out of the box is overrated. I just want guys to hit the ball.

Pete Rose says hi. ;)

jojo
04-20-2007, 10:34 AM
hustle out of the box is overrated. I just want guys to hit the ball.

Preferrably so hard and far that hustle is optional....

:beerme:

cumberlandreds
04-20-2007, 11:05 AM
hustle out of the box is overrated. I just want guys to hit the ball.

It may not matter in the grand scheme of things. It just looks better if you do hustle out of the box and shouldn't require that much more effort.

HUHUH
04-20-2007, 11:30 AM
As I pointed out in another similar thread:

As for the debate about whether some guys have earned the right to dog it sometimes, or if dogging it doesn't affect the outcome of the play then its OK; I've got one thing to say.

THERE IS ONLY ONE THING A POSITION PLAYER IN BASEBALL HAS COMPLETE CONTROL OVER: HOW HARD HE PLAYS. IF YOU CAN'T RUN HARD FOR 90 FEET A FEW TIMES A NIGHT, AND IF YOU CAN'T DO YOUR BEST TO MAKE EVERY PLAY IN THE FIELD, GO HOME.

T7-niner
04-20-2007, 11:39 AM
THERE IS ONLY ONE THING A POSITION PLAYER IN BASEBALL HAS COMPLETE CONTROL OVER: HOW HARD HE PLAYS. IF YOU CAN'T RUN HARD FOR 90 FEET A FEW TIMES A NIGHT, AND IF YOU CAN'T DO YOUR BEST TO MAKE EVERY PLAY IN THE FIELD, GO HOME.

Let me ask you a question.. Do you think that if you played 160ish games from April 1st to the end of September / early October that you would run every foul ball, lazy pop fly, and every little dribbler back to the pitcher out 100 percent?


Hustle is completely overrated. The only reason people are complaining about hustle is because our team has stunk for the better part of 6 years!

dougdirt
04-20-2007, 11:42 AM
Let me ask you a question.. Do you think that if you played 160ish games from April 1st to the end of September / early October that you would run every foul ball, lazy pop fly, and every little dribbler back to the pitcher out 100 percent?


Hustle is completely overrated. The only reason people are complaining about hustle is because our team has stunk for the better part of 6 years!

well that and for the most part that most of this city saw Pete Rose play and think that every play should play just like that.... when in actuality he was given the name Charlie Hustle because he 'hustled' more than almost anyone before him, so my question is if he hustled so much to get a nickname like that, then why on Earth do a lot of people think everyone can hustle the same way? This city is nuts sometimes.

jojo
04-20-2007, 11:57 AM
Personally I'm just glad to see that Narron is sitting Arroyo tonight after watching Bronson's poor effort running down the line during his last at bat (he barely made it a third of the way before turning into the dugout!!!!!!)...


:mooner:

Handofdeath
04-20-2007, 12:33 PM
Let me ask you a question.. Do you think that if you played 160ish games from April 1st to the end of September / early October that you would run every foul ball, lazy pop fly, and every little dribbler back to the pitcher out 100 percent?


Hustle is completely overrated. The only reason people are complaining about hustle is because our team has stunk for the better part of 6 years!

One of the reasons they have stunk is that the Reds are one of the most undisciplined teams at the plate I have ever seen. Another reason is that many of the players who have played with the Reds in recent seasons will never be accused of going the extra mile to get better. The main reason is that stupid mistakes kill the Reds time and time again. Hustle is not about running hard to first, it's about going the extra mile and going all out to do your best at all times. The Reds don't do that nearly often enough.

Red White
04-20-2007, 01:14 PM
Let me ask you a question.. Do you think that if you played 160ish games from April 1st to the end of September / early October that you would run every foul ball, lazy pop fly, and every little dribbler back to the pitcher out 100 percent?


Hustle is completely overrated. The only reason people are complaining about hustle is because our team has stunk for the better part of 6 years!

Yes I would. There is no reason not to run as hard as you can every time. What's the downside? Only good things can happen, and even if nothing good comes of it then nothing has been lost.

160ish baseball games over six months is not so hard a job that one can't give maximum effort throughout.

MartyFan
04-20-2007, 01:18 PM
I think HUSTLE does matter...it's an attitude, a mindset and it carries over into the field too. I also think it ultimately helps the morale of the team when guys are hustling.

jimbo
04-20-2007, 01:19 PM
This city is nuts sometimes.

Sometimes? :D

T7-niner
04-20-2007, 01:24 PM
Yes I would. There is no reason not to run as hard as you can every time. What's the downside? Only good things can happen, and even if nothing good comes of it then nothing has been lost.

160ish baseball games over six months is not so hard a job that one can't give maximum effort throughout.


Right...Who cares if we can't hit because we sure do try hard :)

Talent trumps hustle.....95% of the time. Just ask Josh Hamilton.

George Anderson
04-20-2007, 01:29 PM
160ish baseball games over six months is not so hard a job that one can't give maximum effort throughout.

In the dog days of August I would rather see a player use his energy wisely for when he needs it most. Try being a catcher on a August Sunday afternoon when the temperature in 90 plus degrees on the field and some fat slob sitting in the stands is screaming at you for not hustling to first base on a walk. Use hustle wisely and not foolishly to where it will hurt your team in the long run.

Chip R
04-20-2007, 01:57 PM
Reds' record before Narron's "Hustle or sit" edict: 4-4

Reds' record after Narron's "Hustle or sit" edict: 4-4

dougdirt
04-20-2007, 02:39 PM
One of the reasons they have stunk is that the Reds are one of the most undisciplined teams at the plate I have ever seen. Another reason is that many of the players who have played with the Reds in recent seasons will never be accused of going the extra mile to get better. The main reason is that stupid mistakes kill the Reds time and time again. Hustle is not about running hard to first, it's about going the extra mile and going all out to do your best at all times. The Reds don't do that nearly often enough.

Or the fact that the pitching has been atrocious.... maybe that has something to do with it.

George Anderson
04-20-2007, 02:42 PM
Or the fact that the pitching has been atrocious.... maybe that has something to do with it.

Well maybe if the pitchers sprinted to the mound then they would pitch better!!:D

Handofdeath
04-20-2007, 04:55 PM
Or the fact that the pitching has been atrocious.... maybe that has something to do with it.

In the 16 team NL the Reds are 9th in ERA. They are also

1st in K's
2nd in BB's
3rd in OBA

I would hardly call them atrocious. They do tend to make stupid mistakes at the worst time but atrocious? Don't think so. Perhaps if you spent less time poor mouthing the Reds you would realize that.

Redlegs
04-20-2007, 10:52 PM
I think HUSTLE does matter...it's an attitude, a mindset and it carries over into the field too. I also think it ultimately helps the morale of the team when guys are hustling.
100% correct. It raises the bar for the entire team. Play the game the right way and play hard. That's all.

jojo
04-21-2007, 06:50 AM
Here's my take on hustle....

Two people are interviewing for a position in a fortune 500 company....they both are equally talented and can get the job done.... basically all things are equal except this: one wears a nice suit to the interview and the other wears an outfit that shows off his bodyart and piercings... the guy in the suit gets the job.

Hustle is like the suit....it's a sign of a professional approach...while its talent that got the interview and ultimately it's talent that gets the job done, that suit also may occasionally make a difference in job performance. Even though the client's opinion may not be voiced to the company it's likely some may be digusted by bellybutton piercings that are attached to a nose ring by a gold chain (i.e. hustle may mean an occasional extrabase so there is probably an advantage there though there isn't a metric that can measure it)....

Anyway, that's my two cents (which by the way is roughly equal to 2.8 cents in Canada)....

mth123
04-21-2007, 08:16 AM
Here's my take on hustle....

Two people are interviewing for a position in a fortune 500 company....they both are equally talented and can get the job done.... basically all things are equal except this: one wears a nice suit to the interview and the other wears an outfit that shows off his bodyart and piercings... the guy in the suit gets the job.

Hustle is like the suit....it's a sign of a professional approach...while its talent that got the interview and ultimately it's talent that gets the job done, that suit also may occasionally make a difference in job performance. Even though the client's opinion may not be voiced to the company it's likely some may be digusted by bellybutton piercings that are attached to a nose ring by a gold chain (i.e. hustle may mean an occasional extrabase so there is probably an advantage there though there isn't a metric that can measure it)....

Anyway, that's my two cents (which by the way is roughly equal to 2.8 cents in Canada)....

I agree completely, but there is a downside to Hustle as well. A guy like Freel takes it to such extremes that he frequently runs into outs or gets picked-off. The considerable number of outs he makes on the bases (21 CS and Pick-offs in 2006) don't get captured in his OBP but detract alot.

To further your analogy, hustle is appropriate just like the suit. But I wouldn't give the job to guy who showed up for his interview in a Tux with Tails. Hustling in an out of control manner is the baseball equivalent.

jojo
04-21-2007, 08:41 AM
I agree completely, but there is a downside to Hustle as well. A guy like Freel takes it to such extremes that he frequently runs into outs or gets picked-off. The considerable number of outs he makes on the bases (21 CS and Pick-offs in 2006) don't get captured in his OBP but detract alot.

To further your analogy, hustle is appropriate just like the suit. But I wouldn't give the job to guy who showed up for his interview in a Tux with Tails. Hustling in an out of control manner is the baseball equivalent.

I absolutely agree....

I tend to separate hustle as an intanglible from baserunning as a skill though. This is part of the controversy with intangibles I think. Their definitions are likely very different depeding upon who you ask.

It's not enough to have speed/aggression....unmitigated speed/agression kills.... Ichiro and Freel probably makes for a great race but a comparison of their '06 seasons indicates that Ichiro's speed was far more valuable speed.

HUHUH
04-29-2007, 07:36 AM
Here's my take on hustle....

Two people are interviewing for a position in a fortune 500 company....they both are equally talented and can get the job done.... basically all things are equal except this: one wears a nice suit to the interview and the other wears an outfit that shows off his bodyart and piercings... the guy in the suit gets the job.

Hustle is like the suit....it's a sign of a professional approach...while its talent that got the interview and ultimately it's talent that gets the job done, that suit also may occasionally make a difference in job performance. Even though the client's opinion may not be voiced to the company it's likely some may be digusted by bellybutton piercings that are attached to a nose ring by a gold chain (i.e. hustle may mean an occasional extrabase so there is probably an advantage there though there isn't a metric that can measure it)....

Anyway, that's my two cents (which by the way is roughly equal to 2.8 cents in Canada)....

I agree too. Encarnacion should wear a suit. That's what your saying, right?

RFS62
04-29-2007, 08:04 AM
Here's my take on hustle....

Two people are interviewing for a position in a fortune 500 company....they both are equally talented and can get the job done.... basically all things are equal except this: one wears a nice suit to the interview and the other wears an outfit that shows off his bodyart and piercings... the guy in the suit gets the job.

Hustle is like the suit....it's a sign of a professional approach...while its talent that got the interview and ultimately it's talent that gets the job done, that suit also may occasionally make a difference in job performance. Even though the client's opinion may not be voiced to the company it's likely some may be digusted by bellybutton piercings that are attached to a nose ring by a gold chain (i.e. hustle may mean an occasional extrabase so there is probably an advantage there though there isn't a metric that can measure it)....

Anyway, that's my two cents (which by the way is roughly equal to 2.8 cents in Canada)....


I agree completely, but there is a downside to Hustle as well. A guy like Freel takes it to such extremes that he frequently runs into outs or gets picked-off. The considerable number of outs he makes on the bases (21 CS and Pick-offs in 2006) don't get captured in his OBP but detract alot.

To further your analogy, hustle is appropriate just like the suit. But I wouldn't give the job to guy who showed up for his interview in a Tux with Tails. Hustling in an out of control manner is the baseball equivalent.



Two very strong posts.

I'm all about hustle, but not for show. In baserunning, it's about putting pressure on the defense, and being in the best possible position to take advantage of a mistake, however small, at all times.

If it helps Coffey to get his mind right when he sprints in from the bullpen, then I'm OK with it. If he's just doing it for show, which I don't believe, it would be pretty silly.

When you sprint out of the box on even a routine play, you have a much better chance of acquiring more bases if the defense makes a mistake. That's hustle.

When you're an outfielder and you run hard to back up a play, that's hustle. That's the proverbial "right way to play". If you stand out there and dog it, you're lazy and unprofessional, IMO.

BTW, Pete Rose didn't get the nickname "Charlie Hustle" as a compliment. Whitey Ford gave him that handle as a jab, an insult.

I never saw it as an insult myself. I think the way Pete played was an inspiration to a generation of Reds fans, and like most legends, it's taken on a life of its own much bigger than its real effect.

Myself, I prefer players who are smart and hustle. There's never a reason or an excuse for not having your head in the game. Never.