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View Full Version : This is when the Reds will win...and I have little hope of any of it happening...



Wheelhouse
04-19-2007, 11:25 PM
1) The time periods between when a player starts to perform badly and when he's taken off the roster need to be shortened. Even if the team ends up giving up on a player a little soon, the benefit will be it will give the roster as a whole a fear they need to fight every day to stay on the team. Shorten up on the rope AS A POLICY. It's too clubby and easy to be a Red. I don't care about Redsfest improving--I want less patience with poor baseball.

2) Tom Hume needs to be fired. For deep emotional shakeup, if nothing else. The relievers are consistently unprepared to pitch when they come in, from a scouting, physical and mental point-of-view and this is how it's been over several years. If Hume is fired, the team will know Narron is next, and they all love Jerry.

3) Jr. needs to be put on the DL to get in shape. Send him down to Sarasota and work his fat butt. His timing is off because his bat speed is slowed by his gut.

4) Play Hamilton every day for the rest of the season. With the other problems the Reds have, they can't afford him out of the lineup at all. He's young, and if anything, he needs every at bat he can get.

Wheelhouse
04-19-2007, 11:30 PM
BTW Trent postgame. Shameful:
First of all, Bronson said he was out of gas after the seventh. His curveball wasn't working, so he had to throw more fastballs than usual, and that took it out of him. Thought with a 6-2 lead he was OK.

Also, asked Jerry why Castro, he seemed peeved at the question. Said he thought he was the best chance to get on base. He didn't want to use Javy without someone on base. Of course, not using Javy meant no one got on base.

Asked him about Junior, and again he seemed upset with the question, saying Junior wasn't even in the ballpark. Last I saw Junior he was asleep on the couch in the clubhouse, so I didn't know. That's why you ask questions, so you can get answers to things you don't know.

redsrule2500
04-19-2007, 11:34 PM
To be honest, Junior is really pissing me off. He does little to nothing to help the club, and he constantly gets his little special treatments and whatnot. It'd be funny and effective just to send him to the minors. I'm really, really sick of him. :(

Joseph
04-19-2007, 11:40 PM
This thread will make an interesting read in the morning when I wake up.

Marc D
04-20-2007, 12:00 AM
JR being sick had zippo impact on tonights disaster.

This was a hammer blow reinforcement that our pen is awful and Narron is a complete imbecile. Most of us knew that but its never any fun to have your face rubbed in it.

mole44
04-20-2007, 12:08 AM
To be honest, Junior is really pissing me off. He does little to nothing to help the club, and he constantly gets his little special treatments and whatnot. It'd be funny and effective just to send him to the minors. I'm really, really sick of him. :(

Me too, my scabbed up knuckles are too.:bang:

Johnny Footstool
04-20-2007, 01:02 AM
JR being sick had zippo impact on tonights disaster.



Not when one is venting rage at one's favorite scapegoat.

Larkin Fan
04-20-2007, 01:05 AM
JR being sick had zippo impact on tonights disaster.


Let's not let facts get in the way of a good rant. :)

WVPacman
04-20-2007, 01:15 AM
To be honest, Junior is really pissing me off. He does little to nothing to help the club, and he constantly gets his little special treatments and whatnot. It'd be funny and effective just to send him to the minors. I'm really, really sick of him. :(


I have said this for four to five years now about Griffey.He just does'nt help this team and he hardly ever has since he came here.I know the injurys isn't his fault but the injurys are killing the team.This has been going on every season with the guy and the truth is that he has done little to help this team win.Its time for him to go so Hamilton can play everyday.Don't get me wrong I like Griffey just as much as all of you but the truth is that he has been a bust in Cincy.He isn't injured this year but what has he done?? Nothing!! Im telling you imo if Griffey is off this team then the team would be better exspecially on offense.

Johnny Footstool
04-20-2007, 01:22 AM
I have said this for four to five years now about Griffey.He just does'nt help this team and he hardly ever has since he came here.I know the injurys isn't his fault but the injurys are killing the team.This has been going on every season with the guy and the truth is that he has done little to help this team win.Its time for him to go so Hamilton can play everyday.Don't get me wrong I like Griffey just as much as all of you but the truth is that he has been a bust in Cincy.He isn't injured this year but what has he done?? Nothing!! Im telling you imp if Griffey is off this team then the team would be better.

Griffey wasn't the one coming out of the bullpen and blowing leads yesterday and today.

Fact is, if the bullpen could have held the lead over the last couple of games, no one would be posting any of this.

WVPacman
04-20-2007, 01:38 AM
Griffey wasn't the one coming out of the bullpen and blowing leads yesterday and today.

Fact is, if the bullpen could have held the lead over the last couple of games, no one would be posting any of this.


Thats your opinion and I can accept that but the guy is 37 years old and is injury phrone.Just to watch the guy run around the field and bases makes me hurt.He will never be 100% healthy ever again and thats a fact. You are 100% right about the bullpen b/c they are terrible but im talking about the whole team.It seems like ever since Griffey came every reds player just sat back and said we got Griffey he will do something to help this team win.Well its never happen and it never will.

As far as the trading freel for Hamilton to play everyday threads goes!!! we have the right topic but the wrong player.The player that should stay is freel b/c he brings more to the table and team and Griffey should be the one traded b/c hes 37 and its time to give a younger player a chance(Hamilton)to be an everyday starter.Im hoping he can go to another team and bring his career back to the old JR for atleast the time he has left playing.

WVPacman
04-20-2007, 01:51 AM
Johnny,To trade freel would be the biggest mistake we could make.Thats exactly why the reds organzation can't put a winner on the field!! b/c Griffey and his overpaid contract.If it was'nt for that contract then we would have a good pitching staff !!! starting pitching and bullpen pitching.We would be a better team all around b/c we could afford it. Thats what im saying!!

Jr's Boy
04-20-2007, 02:39 AM
To be honest, Junior is really pissing me off. He does little to nothing to help the club, and he constantly gets his little special treatments and whatnot. It'd be funny and effective just to send him to the minors. I'm really, really sick of him. :(



Send him packin to Mudville!:D

WVRedsFan
04-20-2007, 02:51 AM
Never in the history of baseball has a future hall of famer been so flamed as Ken Griffey Juniior on these boards. Didn't contribute to the team? When healthy, he is the fire that keeps on burning. Unfortunately, he has not been healthy. But when healthy, he has been a constant offensive spark.

but, then again, Norris Hopper, Ryan Freel, Chris Denorfia, and any number of others won't match his statistics in a whole year if he plays half the year. check it out. In 2005, Griffey scored 85 runs and batted in 92 in 128 games. In 2006 Griffey scored 62 runs and batted in 72 in 109 games. Total games = 237. Freel scored 85 runs in 2005 and batted in 21 in 103 games. In 2006, he scored 67 runs and batted in 27 in 132 games. Total games = 235. Of course Griffey gave us instant offense with 35 HRs in 05 and 27 in 06. Freel hit 3 in 05 and 8 last year.

So who's the most productive and who's not contributing?

Makes me sick to see this, but that's the way it is. Put Griffey out to pasture.

Jr's Boy
04-20-2007, 02:57 AM
Thats exactly why the reds organzation can't put a winner on the field!! b/c Griffey and his overpaid contract.If it was'nt for that contract then we would have a good pitching staff !!! starting pitching and bullpen pitching.We would be a better team all around b/c we could afford it. Thats what im saying!![/QUOTE]




Pure speculation,Junior's contract would not have brought alot of top tier starters,and bullpen,that money is deferred over X amount of years.Now you can use that premise to sign top name starting pitching and bullpen with the offer of paying every contract big and small deferred money over many years.

Razor Shines
04-20-2007, 04:12 AM
Wow. Speaking of being "really sick of things". Let me understand: Griffey does nothing to help the team and the would be much better off without him, but he gets bashed for not being in the lineup tonight. If we're better off without him, WHY do we want him in the lineup? I checked ask.com and it didn't know either.



Thats your opinion and I can accept that but the guy is 37 years old and is injury phrone.Just to watch the guy run around the field and bases makes me hurt.He will never be 100% healthy ever again and thats a fact. You are 100% right about the bullpen b/c they are terrible but im talking about the whole team.It seems like ever since Griffey came every reds player just sat back and said we got Griffey he will do something to help this team win.Well its never happen and it never will.

So you are telling me that guys stopped trying once we traded for Griffey? Are you honestly taking that position? So let's say that you're right (and believe me this is just a hypothetical) how on earth have to come to the conclusion of blaming Jr. for other guys not trying?

You may not believe it but the Reds don't have anything better to replace Jr. with right now. And when he's been healthy for the Reds he has helped them in the 6 years he's been here. And if he stays healthy he's going to help this year. Right now he's off just a little bit, but he's not swinging an missing very often he's being very patient at the plate (leading the team in walks) and he's very close to turning all those balls off the wall and to the warning track into home runs. Obviously I can't know that for sure but you have to factor in that he missed a lot of spring with that wrist injury and it may not be 100% healthy just yet. But he's still getting on base. We'll see.

RANDY IN INDY
04-20-2007, 07:54 AM
Why is it when the bullpen implodes, Jr. is the scapegoat? If I were a smart man, I would skip reading the board today.:rolleyes: Adios.

zombie-a-go-go
04-20-2007, 08:51 AM
Words can't even begin to express the frustration, the burning anger, the sheer rage I felt when Ken Griffey Jr. came out of the bullpen and gave up that triple to Luke Scott. Damn him.

VR
04-20-2007, 09:30 AM
Some yearn for the days of a great bullpen, slugging offense, and lousy starting pitching.
I say the latter will make for a very good year in the long haul.

klw
04-20-2007, 10:04 AM
Words can't even begin to express the frustration, the burning anger, the sheer rage I felt when Ken Griffey Jr. came out of the bullpen and gave up that triple to Luke Scott. Damn him.

Well I was more upset when he failed to turn that double play.

RFS62
04-20-2007, 10:06 AM
Words can't even begin to express the frustration, the burning anger, the sheer rage I felt when Ken Griffey Jr. came out of the bullpen and gave up that triple to Luke Scott. Damn him.



:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Highlifeman21
04-20-2007, 10:13 AM
Griffey and Freel should platoon in RF to maximize both of them.

Griffey contributes offensively to this club, and so far his defensive liability is hidden in RF. Freel can contribute offensively to this club, but is below Hamilton offensively and defensively, but is a defensive upgrade compared to Griffey. Unfortunately, this team lacks offense, so Griffey needs to get the nod over Freel.

I feel for Jerry Narron, I really do. I'm one of the biggest opponents to Narron around, but the bullpen seems like deers lost in headlights. As one poster mentioned, they really do seem unprepared, and I'm not sure if that's Hume, Narron, or who? Unfortunately, Narron rode Harang and Arroyo hard last year, and I think we're starting to see the both of them tire sooner than they usually would. This means more IP for the bullpen, which so far hasn't been good for business.

The answer? The waiting game.

We need to wait for Bray, Majewski and Burton to get healthy, b/c the current cast of characters aren't getting the job done. I have zero confidence in Cormier, and Stanton, and lately Coffey has let us down, which is unlike him. We also can't keep dipping into the Santos, Saarloos and Weathers well. The law of averages will catch up with this crew.

I know a lot of people don't have any faith in Majewski, and possibly Bray, and Burton seemed to be in the pre-stages of a full Rick Ankiel, but are they really that much worse than what we've currently got?

registerthis
04-20-2007, 10:22 AM
Words can't even begin to express the frustration, the burning anger, the sheer rage I felt when Ken Griffey Jr. came out of the bullpen and gave up that triple to Luke Scott. Damn him.

:laugh:

There's a special place in hell for people like him.

Marc D
04-20-2007, 10:22 AM
I know a lot of people don't have any faith in Majewski, and possibly Bray, and Burton seemed to be in the pre-stages of a full Rick Ankiel, but are they really that much worse than what we've currently got?

No probably not, but they aren't that much better either and thats why pinning our hopes to their return seems like so much more of this teams "plan" involving pixie dust.

MWM
04-20-2007, 10:24 AM
I can't believe the absolute lack of respect and the utter contempt at which people speak of these baseball players. It's one thing if you don't thnk their performance is worthy of a spot in the lineup or if you think they should be traded, etc... But to hear some of the expressions lobbed at these guys on this site is an embarassment and speaks much more about those expressing those feelings than it does about the player. And Ken Griffey Junior is a wonderful human being who might not be able to play baseball like he used to, but does not deserve the shellacking he's taken on this thread, in this forum, and in the city of Cincinnati.

Some of you need to look in the mirror and have some serious conversations with yourself about how simply being the fan of a baseball team can cause you to become the type of person who could type some of the things you type. This thread is an embarassment.

registerthis
04-20-2007, 10:30 AM
I can't believe the absolute lack of respect and the utter contempt at which people speak of these baseball players. It's one thing if you don't thnk their performance is worthy of a spot in the lineup or if you think they should be traded, etc... But to hear some of the expressions lobbed at these guys on this site is an embarassment and speaks much more about those expressing those feelings than it does about the player. And Ken Griffey Junior is a wonderful human being who might not be able to play baseball like he used to, but does not deserve the shellacking he's taken on this thread, in this forum, and in the city of Cincinnati.

Some of you need to look in the mirror and have some serious conversations with yourself about how simply being the fan of a baseball team can cause you to become the type of person who could type some of the things you type. This thread is an embarassment.

Agree completely.

dabvu2498
04-20-2007, 10:36 AM
Unfortunately, Narron rode Harang and Arroyo hard last year, and I think we're starting to see the both of them tire sooner than they usually would. This means more IP for the bullpen, which so far hasn't been good for business.

It was bad for business when they came out of games last year as well. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't with the pen in the shape it is (was) in.

westofyou
04-20-2007, 10:51 AM
But to hear some of the expressions lobbed at these guys on this site is an embarassment and speaks much more about those expressing those feelings than it does about the player.

Personally I find it ridiculous, 1/10th of the season gone and the hate is already burning full force, fueled by ignorance and the lack of patience for anything that doesn't occur in the 30 second span of time allotted by advertisers as the length of the average persons attention span.

Joseph
04-20-2007, 10:53 AM
I can't believe the absolute lack of respect and the utter contempt at which people speak of these baseball players. It's one thing if you don't thnk their performance is worthy of a spot in the lineup or if you think they should be traded, etc... But to hear some of the expressions lobbed at these guys on this site is an embarassment and speaks much more about those expressing those feelings than it does about the player. And Ken Griffey Junior is a wonderful human being who might not be able to play baseball like he used to, but does not deserve the shellacking he's taken on this thread, in this forum, and in the city of Cincinnati.

Some of you need to look in the mirror and have some serious conversations with yourself about how simply being the fan of a baseball team can cause you to become the type of person who could type some of the things you type. This thread is an embarassment.

To quote the illustrious Stuart Scott, Booyah!

Now that I've started off a post about as ridiculously as I possibly could, well said MWM.

BRM
04-20-2007, 10:55 AM
Personally I find it ridiculous, 1/10th of the season gone and the hate is already burning full force, fueled by ignorance and the lack of patience for anything that doesn't occur in the 30 second span of time allotted by advertisers as the length of the average persons attention span.

Is it this way every year on RedsZone? I don't seem to remember it being this bad last April. Maybe because the Reds had a good April?

Marc D
04-20-2007, 11:12 AM
1/10th of this season maybe but it doesn't take long to see this one is going to be just like the 6 before it.

I think this is why people are so quick to the nagativity toward the team and Narron. The losing seems to have been going on forever and Narron has been in charge the whole time just with a different name, Boone and Miley.

It just one huge cumulative effect and a lot of people's patience for it is just gone. Right or wrong I think that the dynamic we are seeing.

registerthis
04-20-2007, 11:16 AM
Is it this way every year on RedsZone? I don't seem to remember it being this bad last April. Maybe because the Reds had a good April?

And the hting is, we're not having a terrible April now. Perhaps just increased epexctations following our playoff near-miss last year? I dunno.

zombie-a-go-go
04-20-2007, 11:34 AM
And the hting is, we're not having a terrible April now. Perhaps just increased epexctations following our playoff near-miss last year? I dunno.

My theory - it's because they were bullpen losses. Had the starters stank up the joint from the first inning on, or had the bats slept through all 9, it would be easier to digest. But having a lead into the 8th, twice in a row, and watching the pen get hammered is a bitter pill to swallow.

Worst part of the board's reaction is that I haven't yet had a chance to rail on using Castro as a pinch-hitter for Ross. Sigh. :cool:

Degenerate39
04-20-2007, 03:34 PM
Worst part of the board's reaction is that I haven't yet had a chance to rail on using Castro as a pinch-hitter for Ross. Sigh. :cool:

I'll never understand that

texasdave
04-20-2007, 03:49 PM
I am down here in Houston and if it makes anyone feel any better they couldn't understand why Castro was pinch-hitting for Ross either.

Highlifeman21
04-20-2007, 09:33 PM
I honestly think this is just an expectation thing, 1/10th of the season in or not.

Some might look at this as perhaps a "disappointing" start, while others might be more realistic and look at this "well at least we're not well below .500".

Personally, I still think this could be a 90 loss ball club, while others might think this could be a 90 win ball club. Sure, there's a lot of season left, but by June 1 I think we'll know what we have.

RFS62
04-20-2007, 09:42 PM
I can't believe the absolute lack of respect and the utter contempt at which people speak of these baseball players. It's one thing if you don't thnk their performance is worthy of a spot in the lineup or if you think they should be traded, etc... But to hear some of the expressions lobbed at these guys on this site is an embarassment and speaks much more about those expressing those feelings than it does about the player. And Ken Griffey Junior is a wonderful human being who might not be able to play baseball like he used to, but does not deserve the shellacking he's taken on this thread, in this forum, and in the city of Cincinnati.

Some of you need to look in the mirror and have some serious conversations with yourself about how simply being the fan of a baseball team can cause you to become the type of person who could type some of the things you type. This thread is an embarassment.



Excellent post. Very well said.

The hate is like Kudzu. It engulfs and devours.

pedro
04-20-2007, 10:30 PM
I can't believe the absolute lack of respect and the utter contempt at which people speak of these baseball players. It's one thing if you don't thnk their performance is worthy of a spot in the lineup or if you think they should be traded, etc... But to hear some of the expressions lobbed at these guys on this site is an embarassment and speaks much more about those expressing those feelings than it does about the player. And Ken Griffey Junior is a wonderful human being who might not be able to play baseball like he used to, but does not deserve the shellacking he's taken on this thread, in this forum, and in the city of Cincinnati.

Some of you need to look in the mirror and have some serious conversations with yourself about how simply being the fan of a baseball team can cause you to become the type of person who could type some of the things you type. This thread is an embarassment.

Excellent post. I concur completely.

WVPacman
04-21-2007, 02:59 AM
I can't speak for the others that say stuff about Griffey


BUT You are taking my Griffey post all wrong!!!I did not say that the guys stopped trying once we traded for Griffey?I said the players acts like when the team needs a run or is in a slump that there is nothing to worry about b/c they see Griffey as this hero that will always get the hit or lead the team out of a slump.This has been going on ever since he came here.Maybe he could do that when he was young but he can't now.

I'll tell you I was so excited when he put on that reds jersey.I mean he then was the best player in the majors.I know it isn't griffeys fault he is injury prone and is at the end of his career.I guess im just so frustrated b/c I exspected better(just like all of you) from him.

Like I said in my post I have nothing against JR but im just looking at the whole picture here with the team.Hey im really pulling for Griffey to have a big season,I think he could really help this team alot but the truth is that he has'nt done much of anything.Whether posters want to believe it or not his contract has really put a strangle hold on the reds front office to spend money to get better talent.

The posters like me that come out and post something about Jr should be traded or Griffey should step up like a HOFamer he is and tell the manager that he is willing to work something out so a young and talented player like Hamilton could play alot this season to get him ready for the future.This doees'nt mean we hate Griffey,shoot I have never wrote on here that I hate him nor have I seen anybody else say they hate Griffey.We are just looking at the WHOLE picture for our reds and the future.


When I first joined on here alot of the vets on this forum told me to ALWAYS be honest when you post a comment!! say whats on your mind.Well I have done that ever since and I will always do that!!! When I see a post that I don't agree with I don't get mad b/c I know that was your opinion and thats your right.I hope some of you can see my posts the same way?? I hope you can realize that thats my opinion and you can accept it EVEN thow you don't agree with me.I know we all can't agree on everything and we will always have disagreements but thats what a message board is all about right? Whether we disagree or not remember one thing!!! This whole board is and always will be one big family b/c we all love the same team.

GAC
04-21-2007, 09:18 AM
Personally I find it ridiculous, 1/10th of the season gone and the hate is already burning full force, fueled by ignorance and the lack of patience for anything that doesn't occur in the 30 second span of time allotted by advertisers as the length of the average persons attention span.

I blame video games and the Cartoon Network. :mooner:

Chip R
04-21-2007, 09:36 AM
I can't speak for the others that say stuff about Griffey


BUT You are taking my Griffey post all wrong!!!I did not say that the guys stopped trying once we traded for Griffey?I said the players acts like when the team needs a run or is in a slump that there is nothing to worry about b/c they see Griffey as this hero that will always get the hit or lead the team out of a slump.This has been going on ever since he came here.Maybe he could do that when he was young but he can't now.



Man, that's great how you can read the players' minds like that.

37red
04-21-2007, 09:47 AM
deleted by 37red

mth123
04-21-2007, 10:19 AM
It would be interesting to keep a list of which and how often a poster made positive constructive posts. Who and how often a poster made a generally fun and I'll buy the next one sort of post. And finally who and how many times a poster just buried a player or the team more than twice in a thread. Getting steamed once in a while is perfectly fine, and being over the top and gushy with praise is OK sometimes. But getting in a rut to the point you can't enjoy the game or ruin it for other people is over the edge. I think it's time for a new statistics column.

Some times pointing out reality and a player's history to bring people on an unrealistic high back to Earth is viewed as negative, when in reality its just good discussion. Positive and negative are in the eye of the beholder. This board spends too much time worrying about how other posters feel and not enough on the actual topic sometimes.

I try to focus on the reasoning behind the comments.

Sorry if I'm viewed as negative but I think the team is short in many areas. Hamilton's emergence (if real) might be enough to keep the offense league average (as long as the right guys play and the right guys sit), but a career of Kyle Lohse leads me to be skeptical even though he has been good so far. Belisle is unknown and the 5 spot looks like a washout be it Milton or anyone else. You see the Bullpen problems. If Lohse keeps going and some surprises like Coutlangus, Santos and maybe Saarloos (in spite of a couple days ago) help the pen maybe I'll buy in.

Marc D
04-21-2007, 10:37 AM
It would be interesting to keep a list of which and how often a poster made positive constructive posts. Who and how often a poster made a generally fun and I'll buy the next one sort of post. And finally who and how many times a poster just buried a player or the team more than twice in a thread. Getting steamed once in a while is perfectly fine, and being over the top and gushy with praise is OK sometimes. But getting in a rut to the point you can't enjoy the game or ruin it for other people is over the edge. I think it's time for a new statistics column.


OR we can just use the ignore feature if a particular poster has a style not to our taste.

Larkin Fan
04-21-2007, 12:58 PM
I can't believe the absolute lack of respect and the utter contempt at which people speak of these baseball players. It's one thing if you don't thnk their performance is worthy of a spot in the lineup or if you think they should be traded, etc... But to hear some of the expressions lobbed at these guys on this site is an embarassment and speaks much more about those expressing those feelings than it does about the player. And Ken Griffey Junior is a wonderful human being who might not be able to play baseball like he used to, but does not deserve the shellacking he's taken on this thread, in this forum, and in the city of Cincinnati.

Some of you need to look in the mirror and have some serious conversations with yourself about how simply being the fan of a baseball team can cause you to become the type of person who could type some of the things you type. This thread is an embarassment.

Couldn't agree more, MWM. Great post.

MaineRed
04-21-2007, 06:16 PM
If not for Griffey, there might be no Redszone.