PDA

View Full Version : Fay answers questions from tonights game



fisch11
04-20-2007, 12:29 AM
Here's what we found out in the wake the Reds' 8-6 loss to Houston, aka, Bullpen Meltdown II:

--Bronson Arroyo asked to come out of the game. "I was more tired than usual," he said. Arroyo didn't have a good change-up or breaking ball so he threw a lot of fastballs. He said he would stayed in if it was 4-2. But he thought the bullpen could get six outs with a five-run lead.

--Juan Castro pinch-hit in the ninth because Ken Griffey Jr. was sent home because of the flu. Jeff Conine is still hurt apparently. And Jerry Narron was saving Javy Valentin until the Reds got a someone on, which they never did.

--Kirk Saarloos took a lot of the blame for the meltdown. "I walked the first guy on the four pitches. That changed the whole complexion of the game.

Stat of the night: The bullpen came into the homestand with 1.77 ERA. The ERA on the homestand is 11.36.

-Fay

alloverjr
04-20-2007, 12:57 AM
Here's what we found out in the wake the Reds' 8-6 loss to Houston, aka, Bullpen Meltdown II:


--Juan Castro pinch-hit in the ninth because Ken Griffey Jr. was sent home because of the flu. Jeff Conine is still hurt apparently. And Jerry Narron was saving Javy Valentin until the Reds got a someone on, which they never did.


-Fay

To :deadhorse , although one should reasonably expect to hold a 4 run lean with 6 outs to go, knowing your bench is even thinner than normal, why switch out Dunn in the 8th? If Sarloos pitches effectively in the 8th and his bat comes up in the bottom half, you can let him hit if the rationale is for him to go 2 innings. You would assume the lead is still at least 3. If it's not, you're going to pinch hit for him anyway and Dunn is still around. Silly thinking if you ask me.

Cedric
04-20-2007, 01:13 AM
Kirk Saarloos being counted on for anything is a huge problem. He has a horrible track record. Why he was given such an important role is beyond me.

TeamBoone
04-20-2007, 02:30 AM
Most of Jerry Narron's double switches seem to involve one of the top 3-4 batters. Dunn is often the "victim".

thatcoolguy_22
04-20-2007, 02:47 AM
I kind of went on a tangent... disregard

Razor Shines
04-20-2007, 03:31 AM
I think it's funny that the last two nights in the game thread Narron was blasted for taking out Harang and then Arroyo to early (by people who also blast him for leaving them in to long) and both times we find out that they asked to come out of the game. Narron was also blasted in the game thread for bringing in Weathers when he did. But what else was he supposed to do? He made the correct decision tonight to turn Berkman around and that didn't work out. And Weathers got DP ball that got booted by Gonzo. When Griffey made an error that cost the team a run, he was called lazy, worthless and many other things, but Gonzo gets the benefit of the doubt. I think they both should have.

I don't really have a good closing paragraph to tie all of that together. I guess it's just my thoughts after DVRing the game and wishing I hadn't not lisetened to the radio and hadn't stayed up this late to watch it.

One thing pretty much everybody does agree on is that Josh Hamilton is makes me happy to be a baseball fan. He's got that something makes you really focus when he comes to the plate. (I think that something is loads and loads of talent) Even if I have the game on but I'm doing other things and more just listening to it in the background, when Josh comes up I stop doing everything and just watch in awe. Come to think of it maybe I'm not to upset that I stayed up to watch the game.

MikeS21
04-20-2007, 07:39 AM
I think it's funny that the last two nights in the game thread Narron was blasted for taking out Harang and then Arroyo to early (by people who also blast him for leaving them in to long) and both times we find out that they asked to come out of the game. Narron was also blasted in the game thread for bringing in Weathers when he did. But what else was he supposed to do? He made the correct decision tonight to turn Berkman around and that didn't work out. And Weathers got DP ball that got booted by Gonzo. When Griffey made an error that cost the team a run, he was called lazy, worthless and many other things, but Gonzo gets the benefit of the doubt. I think they both should have.

True. Berkman's hit wasn't that hard. It simply found a hole between defenders. And if Gonzo makes that play like he will 999 out of 1000 times, the inning is over. And don't forget Brandon Phillips' throwing error set up that sacrifice fly.

And what's up with BOTH our #1 and #2 pitchers asking to come out of games?

RFS62
04-20-2007, 07:43 AM
I think it's funny that the last two nights in the game thread Narron was blasted for taking out Harang and then Arroyo to early (by people who also blast him for leaving them in to long) and both times we find out that they asked to come out of the game. Narron was also blasted in the game thread for bringing in Weathers when he did. But what else was he supposed to do? He made the correct decision tonight to turn Berkman around and that didn't work out. And Weathers got DP ball that got booted by Gonzo. When Griffey made an error that cost the team a run, he was called lazy, worthless and many other things, but Gonzo gets the benefit of the doubt. I think they both should have.

I don't really have a good closing paragraph to tie all of that together. I guess it's just my thoughts after DVRing the game and wishing I hadn't not lisetened to the radio and hadn't stayed up this late to watch it.

One thing pretty much everybody does agree on is that Josh Hamilton is makes me happy to be a baseball fan. He's got that something makes you really focus when he comes to the plate. (I think that something is loads and loads of talent) Even if I have the game on but I'm doing other things and more just listening to it in the background, when Josh comes up I stop doing everything and just watch in awe. Come to think of it maybe I'm not to upset that I stayed up to watch the game.


Excellent post

Boss-Hog
04-20-2007, 07:58 AM
Most of Jerry Narron's double switches seem to involve one of the top 3-4 batters. Dunn is often the "victim".
I'm not saying I agree with it, because as we've seen over the years, it's common that the team later needs Dunn's offensive ability after a double switch has taken him out of the game, but he's often the victim of a double switch because of his subpar defense.

Red in Chicago
04-20-2007, 08:00 AM
have we started the west coast swoon already? i thought these games were played in cincy;)

LoganBuck
04-20-2007, 08:50 AM
I'm not saying I agree with it, because as we've seen over the years, it's common that the team later needs Dunn's offensive ability after a double switch has taken him out of the game, but he's often the victim of a double switch because of his subpar defense.

Yep and don't forget the double switch of Dunn a week or so ago, in which Hamilton was inserted that saved the game. Hamilton busted his hump to get to the ball down the line and the runner had to hold out of respect for his arm. Dunn would have allowed the run to score. Blowing the save.

RANDY IN INDY
04-20-2007, 08:50 AM
I'm not saying I agree with it, because as we've seen over the years, it's common that the team later needs Dunn's offensive ability after a double switch has taken him out of the game, but he's often the victim of a double switch because of his subpar defense.

On the money, and I've not seen anything so far to make me change my mind.

TOBTTReds
04-20-2007, 09:00 AM
I'm not saying I agree with it, because as we've seen over the years, it's common that the team later needs Dunn's offensive ability after a double switch has taken him out of the game, but he's often the victim of a double switch because of his subpar defense.

That's obvious. But what doesn't make sense is that you replace him at all. He has such a potent bat that it doesn't make sense. I could see replacing someone like Hatteberg if we had someone like Doug Mientkiewicz. But you don't consistantly take out one of the most dangerous hitters in the league. Our pen gave up all 6 runs last night without hitting a ball to LF. Between 40-50% of all balls are hit up the middle, so it makes more sense with a SS, 2B, and CF'er too.

Dunn's offense easily out weighs his poor D, mostly because a LF'er does not impact the game that much. Also, with our bullpen being awful two out of three games before last night, a four run lead is not safe.

Also, like someone else mentioned, replacing him with Hamilton is fine too bc he is such a good hitter. I know Hopper has a good minor league track record, but we don't want him up in the 9th with the game on the line.

All in all, I can only blame the bullpen for games like last night, what else could JN have done (and I'm not a fan of JN)?

mth123
04-20-2007, 09:05 AM
That's obvious. But what doesn't make sense is that you replace him at all. He has such a potent bat that it doesn't make sense. I could see replacing someone like Hatteberg if we had someone like Doug Mientkiewicz. But you don't consistantly take out one of the most dangerous hitters in the league. Our pen gave up all 6 runs last night without hitting a ball to LF. Between 40-50% of all balls are hit up the middle, so it makes more sense with a SS, 2B, and CF'er too.

Dunn's offense easily out weighs his poor D, mostly because a LF'er does not impact the game that much. Also, with our bullpen being awful two out of three games before last night, a four run lead is not safe.

Also, like someone else mentioned, replacing him with Hamilton is fine too bc he is such a good hitter. I know Hopper has a good minor league track record, but we don't want him up in the 9th with the game on the line.

All in all, I can only blame the bullpen for games like last night, what else could JN have done (and I'm not a fan of JN)?


Agree with all this. Especialy the part about a LF not impacting the game that much on defense.

Highlifeman21
04-20-2007, 09:24 AM
True. Berkman's hit wasn't that hard. It simply found a hole between defenders. And if Gonzo makes that play like he will 999 out of 1000 times, the inning is over. And don't forget Brandon Phillips' throwing error set up that sacrifice fly.

And what's up with BOTH our #1 and #2 pitchers asking to come out of games?

Abuse from 2006 finally setting in.

bucksfan2
04-20-2007, 09:47 AM
He didn't double switch two nights ago which could have let santos go another inning but last night he double switches Dunn out. I do not want to see Dunn taken out of the game unless it is the bottom of the ninth and the reds have a lead. His D isnt good but it isn't awful especially with either Freel or Hamiton in CF instead of Jr.

What also gets me is why he took out Saarloos last night. Yea he was struggling but the guy is a converted starter who can pitch to both righties and lefties. He got himself into trouble let him try to get out of trouble. If Narron manages the bullpen right maybe Santos goes 2 innings last night and Coffey comes in today in the 8th with a 4 run lead and not a pressure situation.

Also why in the world do you pinch hit Castro? They guy is just a bad bad hitter and was completly overmatched. Heck if Conine can walk up to the plate with a crutch he would have a better shot at getting on base than Castro. But I guess you have to deal with nagging injuries when you trade for a guy who is over 40 and in the twilight of his career. And the reason not to pinch hit Valentine because no one was on is just stupid. If Valentine does get on that enables the lineup to be turned and you start with the top. If freel manages to prolong the inning you have a bunch of guys behind him who with one swing could win the game.

T7-niner
04-20-2007, 09:49 AM
Abuse from 2006 finally setting in.

Jerry's not the best manager in the game but.....Is their anything else you'd like to blame on Jerry Narron?

paintmered
04-20-2007, 09:53 AM
Jerry's not the best manager in the game but.....Is their anything else you'd like to blame on Jerry Narron?

Everything that is wrong in this world can be traced back to Jerry Narron or Bob Boone.

dabvu2498
04-20-2007, 10:19 AM
Everything that is wrong in this world can be traced back to Jerry Narron or Bob Boone.

Or Dave Miley...

registerthis
04-20-2007, 10:29 AM
Or Dave Miley...

The Trifecta of Terror.

RedsNeck
04-20-2007, 12:44 PM
I'm not usually overly critical but it's barely plausible to pinch hit Castro for a pitcher. At no time should he be used in the place of an actual position player that is paid to hit a baseball regardless of how poorly said hitter has performed up to that point in time. Dave Ross has suffered the ultimate indignity at the hands of Jerry Narron. I think the only option now is to challenge Jerry to a duel.

Chip R
04-20-2007, 12:51 PM
I'm not usually overly critical but it's barely plausible to pinch hit Castro for a pitcher. At no time should he be used in the place of an actual position player that is paid to hit a baseball regardless of how poorly said hitter has performed up to that point in time. Dave Ross has suffered the ultimate indignity at the hands of Jerry Narron. I think the only option now is to challenge Jerry to a duel.


I think 3 people thought that was a good idea. Castro, Narron and Marty.

Strikes Out Looking
04-20-2007, 12:58 PM
Regardless of why the pitchers came out--and errors that were made, the bullpen needs to throw strikes. Wed. night coffey hit the first batter and last night, Sarloos walked the first batter on 4 straight balls. They can't do that and expect to be sucessful.

And while I think Narron is not a good in game manager, I'm not sure there is anyone out there to replace him with at the present.

RedsNeck
04-20-2007, 12:59 PM
I think 3 people thought that was a good idea. Castro, Narron and Marty.

Marty liked the move?? I was watching it on TV. What did Marty say?

I have to be honest I had a terrible feeling about the outcome when Jerry threw the jinx on us by pulling Adam Dunn. I think the rule of thumb on defensive replacements should be ninth inning only unless you have more than a grand slam lead.

Chip R
04-20-2007, 01:02 PM
Marty liked the move?? I was watching it on TV. What did Marty say?



I'm just guessing Marty liked it. Juan Castro walks on water according to him.

Cedric
04-20-2007, 01:10 PM
Marty couldn't believe the move. I was driving home from the game and heard that one.

Who could believe it? One of the weirdest decisions I can remember.

lollipopcurve
04-20-2007, 01:27 PM
And don't forget Brandon Phillips' throwing error set up that sacrifice fly.

Should have been an error on Ross, not Phillips. Ross barely bent for the ball, seemingly because he thought he might make a swipe tag (highly doubtful). Bad decision. The throw was a little up the line, but it was nowhere near an error. Given some of the drops Ross had on throws from the OF last year, and that play he made on the bunt in the second game this year, I'm starting to think he's a liability once the ball's in play.

Cedric
04-20-2007, 01:30 PM
Should have been an error on Ross, not Phillips. Ross barely bent for the ball, seemingly because he thought he might make a swipe tag (highly doubtful). Bad decision. The throw was a little up the line, but it was nowhere near an error. Given some of the drops Ross had on throws from the OF last year, and that play he made on the bunt in the second game this year, I'm starting to think he's a liability once the ball's in play.

Yes. I was at the game and couldn't believe that was called on Phillips. Ross is the gift that seemingly keeps on giving.

Redsland
04-20-2007, 01:40 PM
I think the rule of thumb on defensive replacements should be ninth inning only unless you have more than a grand slam lead.
I've seen bats like Dmitri Young's get replaced by gloves like Kerry Robinson's.

In short, I'll sign your petition.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-20-2007, 01:53 PM
Should have been an error on Ross, not Phillips. Ross barely bent for the ball, seemingly because he thought he might make a swipe tag (highly doubtful). Bad decision. The throw was a little up the line, but it was nowhere near an error. Given some of the drops Ross had on throws from the OF last year, and that play he made on the bunt in the second game this year, I'm starting to think he's a liability once the ball's in play.

I cannot remember the last time Ross made a play at the plate. Come to think of it, I can't remember him doing anything out of the ordinary back there. Funny how his slump just highlights his defensive shortcomings.

Honestly, if David Ross is not a below-average catcher, then there is no such thing as a below-average catcher.