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View Full Version : Bullpen management; ex: Gordon last night



jredmo2
04-21-2007, 04:16 AM
Watching the game last night, especially after the Hatteburg HR, I had to stop and relate his situation with the way Narron had handled the bullpen the two nights before. The Phils pticher in the 8th (forgot his name) seemed to be dealing fairly well. Why not leave him in? And yet, they put in Gordon, left him in and he lost the game.

I understand that you want to get the best matchups lefty/righty wise, and have continuity in the cloaser position, but last night Gordon was left to the wolves. His bullpen had been exhausted, and he clearly didn't have his stuff. Yet the Phils' bullpen had been so micromanaged that they didn't have a choice but to leave him in.

Does this relate to Narron's management the past week? Honestly, I am not knowledgable enough about these sort of things to know for sure. If you were a Phils fan, how would you react? Any opinions in comparison to Narron?

jmac
04-21-2007, 06:51 AM
If you were a Phils fan, how would you react?
I have heard it said that most philly fans would boo Santa Claus so I am sure they are pretty livid this morning. Course Baseball Tonight already got ball rolling by asking why not leave Myers in.

rotnoid
04-21-2007, 06:59 AM
I think the key here is the blown save. Gordon is the closer. It's his job to shot the door in the 9th. He didn't get it done. Plain and simple.

As for bringing him back out in the tenth, you hit the nail on the head. The bullpen was exhausted. They were out of lefties and had already used 5 relievers. Except for a mistake to Hatterberg, he had a relatively stress free ninth and the decision to bring him back in the 10th wasn't awful at the time, IMO. I will give you that leaving him out there to suffer in the 10th was a mistake, but who do they have in the pen at that point to relieve him?

To answer your question about the pitcher in the 8th-- it was Brett Myers. There are a few reasons Manuel doesn't bring them back. Besides going to his closer in the 9th, he clearly doesn't have much confidence in Myers since he was demoted from being the Opening Day starter to the bullpen in 3 weeks. I'm not saying I agree with that, but it's just an observation as to Manuel's thinking.

Ludwig Reds Fan
04-21-2007, 08:21 AM
heck, we've even got Freel and Hamilton available to pitch if we need em ;)

mroby85
04-21-2007, 12:29 PM
i have to say if i had tom gordon i would leave him in, the thing that puzzled me was the yanking of lieber when he was throwing a 1 hitter.

butlerbulldogs
04-21-2007, 01:05 PM
i have to say if i had tom gordon i would leave him in, the thing that puzzled me was the yanking of lieber when he was throwing a 1 hitter.


If you paid attention to baseball, Lieber just became a starter with the demotion of Brett Myers, so he had been in the bullpen...he was on a pitch count

TeamEncarnacion
04-21-2007, 01:08 PM
If you paid attention to baseball, Lieber just became a starter with the demotion of Brett Myers, so he had been in the bullpen...he was on a pitch count

I wouldhve left him in the game hes an old guy not a rookie trying buld strength up in his arm. he was on.

PuffyPig
04-21-2007, 01:39 PM
i have to say if i had tom gordon i would leave him in, the thing that puzzled me was the yanking of lieber when he was throwing a 1 hitter.

If I was Pete Rose, I'd be betting a bundle that many things puzzle you about baseball descisions.......

PuffyPig
04-21-2007, 01:41 PM
I wouldhve left him in the game hes an old guy not a rookie trying buld strength up in his arm. he was on.

You can't let a pitcher who hasn't started a game all year pitch more than the 77 pitches had had already thrown. Even 77 was probably stretching it.

Old or not, he still needs to build up arm stretch.

jfar23
04-21-2007, 01:46 PM
Manuel just fell victim to loyalty to his closer. It's obvious Gordon has something wrong with his breaking ball but most managers will let their pitcher pitch their way out of the role rather than a preemptive move.

Patrick Bateman
04-21-2007, 01:51 PM
Manuel just fell victim to loyalty to his closer. It's obvious Gordon has something wrong with his breaking ball but most managers will let their pitcher pitch their way out of the role rather than a preemptive move.

Well he only had 2 other relievers left at that point and it was in extra innings. I think he was trying to get as many innings out of each reliever at that point to make sure he wouldn't have to bring in a starter after 4 or 5 extra innings.

mth123
04-21-2007, 02:12 PM
You can't let a pitcher who hasn't started a game all year pitch more than the 77 pitches had had already thrown. Even 77 was probably stretching it.

Old or not, he still needs to build up arm stretch.

Good point.

Unassisted
04-21-2007, 02:22 PM
I don't know how many pitches he threw, but it occurs to me that because of that extended outing, the Reds may not see Gordon again during this series. And if Charlie does call on him, he may lose a little bit of his edge, thanks to the bad extended outing.

mth123
04-21-2007, 02:24 PM
I don't know how many pitches he threw, but it occurs to me that because of that extended outing, the Reds may not see Gordon again during this series. And if Charlie does call on him, he may lose a little bit of his edge, thanks to the bad extended outing.

Another good point. I wonder if Myers can pitch on back to back nights. I'd rather the Reds face Gordon.