PDA

View Full Version : Coffey Overused



runfreelrun
04-25-2007, 01:08 AM
Anyone else find it curious that Jerry Narron loves to throw Todd Coffey out there as much as he can, without concern for his health. Why with a 10-2 lead would you send in one of it not the most important cog of your bullpen. Isnt that why Santos is there, for mop up role. God Narron its ok not to brew Coffey everyday, just drink some hot tea!

mroby85
04-25-2007, 01:20 AM
santos has been better than coffey, if he's one of the cogs, there are some big problems. you have to look at coffey's stats, because after april and may of last year, he really hasn't been very effective.

AmarilloRed
04-25-2007, 01:22 AM
I think Narron wanted to see him get back on the right track. He has had several bad games lately.

TOBTTReds
04-25-2007, 01:36 AM
I think Narron wanted to see him get back on the right track. He has had several bad games lately.

Nah. His last two performances have been very good. Both 1 ip, 1 h, 2 k's.

I def think he is being over used. The guy I would throw out there is Saarloos. He is our mop up/long reliever. Santos has been too good to use freely like this. Coffey is still important. If he can be reliable, our BP can do well.

mroby85
04-25-2007, 01:41 AM
i think sarloos has wicked stuff and could be an effective reliever, that being said i realize he's had a couple below par outings, but hey, lets cheer up, the offense hit, and harang looked great. its a good night to be a reds fan.

TOBTTReds
04-25-2007, 01:45 AM
i think sarloos has wicked stuff and could be an effective reliever, that being said i realize he's had a couple below par outings, but hey, lets cheer up, the offense hit, and harang looked great. its a good night to be a reds fan.

Oh yeah. I like Saarloos. I'm not saying he is the LR and mop up bc he is bad, but bc he has the best stamina out of our relievers and isn't a max effort guy. Also, Saarloos' high WHIP and H/9, and low K/9, make it absolutely no sense to bring him in with ANY runners on base. Therefore, he doesn't need to be reserved for key situations. But a guy like Coffey can go in there and get a K if needed. Saarloos, to this point, is striking out way more hitters than his norm, and even that doesn't come close to Coffey's ability.

Razor Shines
04-25-2007, 02:12 AM
He's hasn't been used two days in a row since last Tuesday and Wednesday. On the 20th he threw 18 pitches, on the 22nd he threw 13 pitches and tonight he threw 10 pitches. That's only 41 pitches in his last three outings over 5 days. I don't really think he's being over used. He came in a did a good job tonight. He had a huge lead came in and threw strikes and let the other team put it in play, all on the ground mind you. I have no problem with his outing tonight.

Jr's Boy
04-25-2007, 02:59 AM
IP H R ER HR HB BB SO WHIP HLD GF
Bobby Livingston 0 2 2.88 4 4 0 0 0 25.0 24 8 8 2 1 3 17 1.08 0 0
Phil Dumatrait 4 0 0.38 4 4 0 0 0 23.2 12 4 1 0 0 9 17 0.89 0 0
Mike Gosling 0 0 2.25 3 3 0 0 0 16.0 12 4 4 2 0 7 12 1.19 0 0
Tom Shearn 0 1 2.81 3 3 0 0 0 16.0 14 6 5 2 0 6 10 1.25 0 0
Homer Bailey 1 0 1.76 3 3 0 0 0 15.1 8 3 3 1 0 8 11 1.04 0 0
Ricky Stone 0 1 0.90 8 0 0 0 0 10.0 6 2 1 0 0 1 5 0.70 2 2
Jason Kershner 1 1 0.90 7 0 0 0 0 10.0 4 1 1 0 0 1 7 0.50 1 2
Gary Majewski 0 1 8.31 8 0 0 0 0 8.2 12 8 8 1 1 2 7 1.62 2 1
Wes Wilkerson 1 0 3.86 7 0 0 0 0 7.0 10 4 3 0 0 4 4 2.00 0 2
Brad Salmon 1 0 2.57 7 0 0 0 2 7.0 7 2 2 0 0 0 7 1.00 0 7
Brian Shackelford 0 2 13.50 7 0 0 0 0 5.1 6 8 8 0 1 5 1 2.06 2 0
Steven Kelly 0 1 13.50 3 0 0 0 0 4.2 10 10 7 0 0 5 2 3.21 0 2
Jared Burton 0 0 2.25 3 0 0 0 0

Jpup
04-25-2007, 09:34 AM
I don't understand why they just didn't put in Coutlangus and let him get some innings. How about Cormier? He hasn't pitched in a week. Wow, they have no confidence in him at all.

NatiRedGals
04-25-2007, 09:37 AM
IP H R ER HR HB BB SO WHIP HLD GF
Bobby Livingston 0 2 2.88 4 4 0 0 0 25.0 24 8 8 2 1 3 17 1.08 0 0
Phil Dumatrait 4 0 0.38 4 4 0 0 0 23.2 12 4 1 0 0 9 17 0.89 0 0
Mike Gosling 0 0 2.25 3 3 0 0 0 16.0 12 4 4 2 0 7 12 1.19 0 0
Tom Shearn 0 1 2.81 3 3 0 0 0 16.0 14 6 5 2 0 6 10 1.25 0 0
Homer Bailey 1 0 1.76 3 3 0 0 0 15.1 8 3 3 1 0 8 11 1.04 0 0
Ricky Stone 0 1 0.90 8 0 0 0 0 10.0 6 2 1 0 0 1 5 0.70 2 2
Jason Kershner 1 1 0.90 7 0 0 0 0 10.0 4 1 1 0 0 1 7 0.50 1 2
Gary Majewski 0 1 8.31 8 0 0 0 0 8.2 12 8 8 1 1 2 7 1.62 2 1
Wes Wilkerson 1 0 3.86 7 0 0 0 0 7.0 10 4 3 0 0 4 4 2.00 0 2
Brad Salmon 1 0 2.57 7 0 0 0 2 7.0 7 2 2 0 0 0 7 1.00 0 7
Brian Shackelford 0 2 13.50 7 0 0 0 0 5.1 6 8 8 0 1 5 1 2.06 2 0
Steven Kelly 0 1 13.50 3 0 0 0 0 4.2 10 10 7 0 0 5 2 3.21 0 2
Jared Burton 0 0 2.25 3 0 0 0 0

Bobby Livingston also

bucksfan2
04-25-2007, 09:40 AM
Coffey needs to work himself back into pitching important innings. Until he works himself back into what he was I say he pitches mop up innings.

dfs
04-25-2007, 10:47 AM
Gee, the guy has been in 13 of our 20 games and now he isn't effective. You think there might be some cause and effect there?

Why use two relievers to get 4 outs?

There are just too many reliever appearances for a team that is getting great starting pitching on a nightly basis. It's not that they are throwing to too many batters. It's that they are throwing too often.

The next big organizational hurdle is to find a way to manage the bullpen without slagging the arms we have. It's nice to have depth, but when/if they start to focus on quality, they'll need to keep the good guys healthy.

westofyou
04-25-2007, 10:59 AM
23 NL pitchers have 11 or more IP, 17 have more IP then Coffey. He's on pace for 89 IP in 105 appearances.

If he gets in over 100 games I'll be surprised, if he tops 100 IP I won't be. And it won't be that unusual.


GAMES YEAR G IP
1 Wayne Granger 1969 90 145
2 Rob Murphy 1987 87 100.2
3 Frank Williams 1987 85 105.2
4 Stan Belinda 1997 84 99.1
5 Todd Coffey 2006 81 78
6 Pedro Borbon 1973 80 121
T7 Scott Sullivan 1999 79 113.2
T7 Scott Sullivan 2001 79 103.1
T7 Scott Sullivan 2000 79 106.1
T10 Kent Mercker 2005 78 61.2
T10 Jeff Shaw 1997 78 94.2
T10 Jeff Shaw 1996 78 104.2
T10 Ted Abernathy 1968 78 135
T10 Ted Power 1984 78 108.2
T10 Tom Hume 1980 78 137

Strikes Out Looking
04-25-2007, 11:03 AM
The Reds have three pitchers leading the league in appearances, Coffey, Saarloos and Stanton. I don't know why Narron didn't use someone like Cormier to mop up last night--or Milton (I know we are all thinking about that one).

dfs
04-25-2007, 11:41 AM
23 NL pitchers have 11 or more IP, 17 have more IP then Coffey. He's on pace for 89 IP in 105 appearances.

If he gets in over 100 games I'll be surprised, if he tops 100 IP I won't be. And it won't be that unusual.

Again...it's not the number of batters per appearances (IP) that's the problem. The problem is that they are throwing too often.

This is EXACTLY what melted down last years pen. Narron would go with the same pitcher day in and day out till they either lost effectiveness or they got hurt. Chris Hammond in particular was very effective till he got overused and overworked.

Sometime in June or before one of the beat writers is going to write about what a great job that Narron has done making due with a pen while swapping so many roles around and how nobody could have anticipated Saarloos and Coffey going down with injuries. It's maddening.

westofyou
04-25-2007, 11:45 AM
Chris Hammond in particular was very effective till he got overused and overworked. He was good in May, horrible in April and June and is a situation lefty who is old. Coffey OTOH is a Granger type of hurler.

I don't see the comparison.

dfs
04-25-2007, 12:04 PM
Coffey OTOH is a Granger type of hurler.

But Coffey isn't being used as a multi-inning reliever.
5 of his 13 appearances are for just a couple of batters.
And only once has he been asked to go longer than an inning.

If you use every guy in your pen that way, all season long, you are asking for them to burn out.
Sure you had an off day, but with an 8 run lead...why use two relievers?

redsupport
04-25-2007, 01:20 PM
coffey is not one tenth as good as granger on a bad day

westofyou
04-25-2007, 01:26 PM
coffey is not one tenth as good as granger on a bad day


YEAR TEAM AGE W L PCT G GS CG SV GF IP H R ER BB SO ERA RSAA
2005 Reds 24 4 1 .800 57 0 0 1 14 58 84 33 29 11 26 4.50 0
2006 Reds 25 6 7 .462 81 0 0 8 28 78 85 34 31 27 60 3.58 11
TOTALS 10 8 .556 138 0 0 9 42 136 169 67 60 38 86 3.97 11
LG AVERAGE 8 8 .492 0 11 136 139 72 66 51 101 4.38 0
YEAR TEAM HR H/9 BR/9 SO/9 BB/9 SO/BB SHO WP IBB HBP BFP BK NW NL
2005 Reds 5 13.03 15.52 4.03 1.71 2.36 0 1 2 5 265 0 2 3
2006 Reds 7 9.81 13.15 6.92 3.12 2.22 0 4 5 2 340 0 8 5
TOTALS 12 11.18 14.16 5.69 2.51 2.26 0 5 7 7 605 0 10 8
LG AVERAGE 16 9.17 12.91 6.65 3.35 1.99 0 4 5 6 590 0




1969-1971

YEAR TEAM AGE W L PCT G GS CG SV GF IP H R ER BB SO ERA RSAA
1969 Reds 25 9 6 .600 90 0 0 27 55 145 143 64 45 40 68 2.79 13
1970 Reds 26 6 5 .545 67 0 0 35 59 85 79 33 25 27 38 2.65 14
1971 Reds 27 7 6 .538 70 0 0 11 41 100 94 39 37 28 51 3.33 0
TOTALS 22 17 .564 227 0 0 73 155 330 316 136 107 95 157 2.92 27
LG AVERAGE 18 18 .500 0 40 330 316 152 135 122 213 3.68 0

YEAR TEAM HR H/9 BR/9 SO/9 BB/9 SO/BB SHO WP IBB HBP BFP BK NW NL
1969 Reds 10 8.88 11.79 4.22 2.48 1.70 0 5 14 7 611 2 9 6
1970 Reds 5 8.36 11.33 4.02 2.86 1.41 0 3 8 1 352 0 8 3
1971 Reds 8 8.46 11.07 4.59 2.52 1.82 0 1 7 1 412 0 6 7
TOTALS 23 8.62 11.45 4.28 2.59 1.65 0 9 29 9 1375 2 23 16
LG AVERAGE 28 8.62 12.15 5.81 3.32 1.75 2 12 15 8 1405 1

tbball10
04-25-2007, 02:07 PM
The Reds have three pitchers leading the league in appearances, Coffey, Saarloos and Stanton. I don't know why Narron didn't use someone like Cormier to mop up last night--or Milton (I know we are all thinking about that one).

i agree. they should have thrown cormier... well actually they should release him.

redsupport
04-25-2007, 02:21 PM
they should throw cormier on the scrap heap to join Mark Kroon and Andy Larkin

Unassisted
04-25-2007, 02:33 PM
Given the energy level Coffey displays getting to the mound, he might be a guy who needs to get regular work to be effective. I'm inclined to trust the Reds braintrust on this one.