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WVRedsFan
04-25-2007, 01:52 AM
Tonight's game so many frustrating things come to an end, you almost have to consider it a new beginning. So many things, you have to list them:

1. Gonzo finally showed some power, but we also saw his fielding powress.
2. EdE got a hit on the road.
3. Griffey got his first HR.
4. David Ross got two hits and looked much better at the plate.
5. Scott Hatteberg looked like the 2006 version.
6. The team got 17 hits and 10 runs--more than the whole Philies series
7. Timely hitting all around.

Good stuff

Of course, on the other hand, we saw some things that are still aggravating:

1. Dunn's slump continues.
2. Phillips continues to be a horrible 2-hole hitter (though he went 2-6).
3. The bullpen is still very hittable (I know, everyone knew that).
4. Todd Coffey continues to be the most confusing player here, throwing
10 pitches--9 of them for stikes and still allowed three straight hits,
then throws tr=hree almost perfect pitches to get out of it.

Just goes to show you with good pitching and not having efveryone in a slump, you can win with this bunch. May the force continue.

But is this the beginning of the bats waking up and the team playing well??

Razor Shines
04-25-2007, 01:57 AM
Tonight's game so many frustrating things come to an end, you almost have to consider it a new beginning. So many things, you have to list them:

1. Gonzo finally showed some power, but we also saw his fielding powress.
2. EdE got a hit on the road.
3. Griffey got his first HR.
4. David Ross got two hits and looked much better at the plate.
5. Scott Hatteberg looked like the 2006 version.
6. The team got 17 hits and 10 runs--more than the whole Philies series
7. Timely hitting all around.

Good stuff

Of course, on the other hand, we saw some things that are still aggravating:

1. Dunn's slump continues.
2. Phillips continues to be a horrible 2-hole hitter (though he went 2-6).
3. The bullpen is still very hittable (I know, everyone knew that).
4. Todd Coffey continues to be the most confusing player here, throwing
10 pitches--9 of them for stikes and still allowed three straight hits,
then throws tr=hree almost perfect pitches to get out of it.

Just goes to show you with good pitching and not having efveryone in a slump, you can win with this bunch. May the force continue.

But is this the beginning of the bats waking up and the team playing well??
I think so. I think Jr. is going to have a much better season than he did last year. I think Ross will be better than he's been but not like the first half of last year.

Spring~Fields
04-25-2007, 04:07 AM
But is this the beginning of the bats waking up and the team playing well??

I wish that it was but I have seen the Reds feast on pitchers with an ERA of 4.70 or better so often that I will have to wait to see how well they do against better pitching before I get inspired by their offense.

RANDY IN INDY
04-25-2007, 07:46 AM
If it isn't the beginning of better things, I'm sure it will somehow be Jerry Narron's fault.

StillFunkyB
04-25-2007, 07:50 AM
It was Kip Wells. The Reds have hit him hard since he came out of the womb.

I'm curious to see if they can keep it up against some better pitching.

Caveat Emperor
04-25-2007, 09:06 AM
Of course you can always make the point that one of the hallmarks of a bad offense is lack of consistency. You'll have your occasional 10/11 run outbursts, but part of the problem is that you can't count on the players involved to keep it up over a long stretch of games.

I'll have to see some more good ABs from Ross and Encarnacion to proclaim them as having turned the corner.

GAC
04-25-2007, 09:12 AM
If it isn't the beginning of better things, I'm sure it will somehow be Jerry Narron's fault.

He only gets credit for the bad stuff. :evil:

But one game is a pretty small window. Especially against a Kip Wells.

Falls City Beer
04-25-2007, 09:25 AM
The offense will be sufficient; the bullpen monumentally bad; Harang should continue to improve, while Lohse will slide. Belisle is HIGHLY unlikely to a. stay healthy or b. remain effective over 150-170 innings if he does stay healthy. Milton is Milton.

This team is last year's team. Welcome to this year.

Jpup
04-25-2007, 09:37 AM
you said Dunn was still in a slump? he didn't strike out, doesn't that count?:p:

redsmetz
04-25-2007, 10:00 AM
The offense will be sufficient; the bullpen monumentally bad; Harang should continue to improve, while Lohse will slide. Belisle is HIGHLY unlikely to a. stay healthy or b. remain effective over 150-170 innings if he does stay healthy. Milton is Milton.

This team is last year's team. Welcome to this year.

Why always the constant and nearly total pessimism? Certainly this team has its work cut out for it, but I just don't see the dark cloud you regularly see.

This bullpen may prove to be uneven, but it's not last year's bullpen and there's depth waiting in Louisville should some of it falter. I don't think it's a given that Lohse will decline, and I don't think it's a given that Belisle will come up injured. And if Milton can keep us in the game as he has in EACH of his starts thus far, that's a plus.

I won't predict this team wins the division, but it has as good a chance as any of the other teams. It won't be easy, but it's possible.

westofyou
04-25-2007, 10:09 AM
Nice win, step aside so I can pee on the fire.

Falls City Beer
04-25-2007, 10:32 AM
Why always the constant and nearly total pessimism? Certainly this team has its work cut out for it, but I just don't see the dark cloud you regularly see.

This bullpen may prove to be uneven, but it's not last year's bullpen and there's depth waiting in Louisville should some of it falter. I don't think it's a given that Lohse will decline, and I don't think it's a given that Belisle will come up injured. And if Milton can keep us in the game as he has in EACH of his starts thus far, that's a plus.

I won't predict this team wins the division, but it has as good a chance as any of the other teams. It won't be easy, but it's possible.

Inertia's tough to break. Just ask the Brewers or the Pirates.

This team is severely lacking in elements in each quadrant of the game (starting, relieving, hitting, defense) who can carry the team for weeks at a time. Simply put, there are no Oswalts, Wheelers, Carpenters, Pujols, Sheets, Santanas on this team. Winners have to have those guys. The Reds have some nice secondary stuff, but no killers anywhere. And that creates inertia--and not the good kind.

After all, the question of this thread wasn't: was this a nice win, which of course it was; the question was: is this the beginning of something for the team. I say no.

That's not pessimism.

PuffyPig
04-25-2007, 12:28 PM
I wish that it was but I have seen the Reds feast on pitchers with an ERA of 4.70 or better so often that I will have to wait to see how well they do against better pitching before I get inspired by their offense.


Wells came into the game with an ERA in the low 3's. The Reds increased it to 4.70.

That's a little unfair to say they feasted on a 4.70 guy.

M2
04-25-2007, 12:49 PM
It doesn't make sense to read overly much into one game. This team isn't going to score 10 runs a game. In fact, it's not going to score five runs a game. What looked so good last night was that a lot of guys contributed. That needs to be the case more often than not. If you've only got one way to win then you probably aren't going to win that often.

As I noted in another thread, what we'll be doing for the next month is watching a club fighting to achieve consistency. June is when we'll really have a proper sense of whether it's achieved consistency.

Degenerate39
04-25-2007, 12:52 PM
1. Gonzo finally showed some power, but we also saw his fielding powress.
2. EdE got a hit on the road.
3. Griffey got his first HR.
4. David Ross got two hits and looked much better at the plate.
5. Scott Hatteberg looked like the 2006 version.
6. The team got 17 hits and 10 runs--more than the whole Philies series
7. Timely hitting all around.

Good stuff



Enter Jobu:
http://lenfu.com/img/jobu.jpg

redsmetz
04-25-2007, 12:53 PM
It doesn't make sense to read overly much into one game. This team isn't going to score 10 runs a game. In fact, it's not going to score five runs a game. What looked so good last night was that a lot of guys contributed. That needs to be the case more often than not. If you've only got one way to win then you probably aren't going to win that often.

As I noted in another thread, what we'll be doing for the next month is watching a club fighting to achieve consistency. June is when we'll really have a proper sense of whether it's achieved consistency.

I agree. It is way too early to say the woes are over. It's refreshing to see things click, but even there, as some have noted, not everything did. I'd really like to get into the decent weather and see how we do (but then again, so will the whole league).

paintmered
04-25-2007, 01:07 PM
1. Dunn's slump continues.


Even so, he got on base twice last night and scored a run. Dunn didn't have any hits, but he was still productive.

flyer85
04-25-2007, 01:09 PM
of a three game series in St. Louis

Ohioballplayer
04-25-2007, 01:10 PM
JOBU, now thats funny, hey guys if we all knew the pressures of MLB we would all choose to be either writers and or players.

10 quick points:

#1 Griffey's ST is not over
#2 David Ross is pressing bad (but is not that good of a hitter anyway)
#3 EdE is pressing just as bad, but still showing signs of coming out of it
#4 Hatteberg is what he is 15hr - 70RBI
#5 Yes the bullpen stinks, age and ball placement is high. Relievers pitching to contact will really hurt this team.
#6 Dunner can still not hit with RISP
#7 Narron can never use the same lineup 2 days in a row.
#8 Brandon Phillips should bat in the 7 hole with some pop.
#9 Ryan Freel needs to play often with "occasional rest"
#10 What do you expect from a bunch of free swingers against KIP WELLS

westofyou
04-25-2007, 01:13 PM
Even so, he got on base twice last night and scored a run. Dunn didn't have any hits, but he was still productive.

Dude he had a "Productive out" too, moving the runner up to second. You'd think the strike out crew would stop wringing their hands long enough to note such an event.

Redsland
04-25-2007, 02:33 PM
Dude he had a "Productive out" too, moving the runner up to second. You'd think the strike out crew would stop wringing their hands long enough to note such an event.
Actually overheard on WLW last night in the fifth:

Thom: Adam Dunn has had a productive night at the plate. Two walks, he moved a batter up on a groundout, and a run scored.

Marty: Two and two the count….
So, no love from Dad, but Thom noticed.

westofyou
04-25-2007, 02:39 PM
So, no love from Dad, but Thom noticed.
I wonder if Marty has a similar attitude towards the basketball players of today?

Back in his ABA days I bet he drooled over Billy Cunningham

RedEye
04-25-2007, 02:45 PM
Tonight's game so many frustrating things come to an end, you almost have to consider it a new beginning. So many things, you have to list them:

1. Gonzo finally showed some power, but we also saw his fielding powress.
2. EdE got a hit on the road.
3. Griffey got his first HR.
4. David Ross got two hits and looked much better at the plate.
5. Scott Hatteberg looked like the 2006 version.
6. The team got 17 hits and 10 runs--more than the whole Philies series
7. Timely hitting all around.

Good stuff

Of course, on the other hand, we saw some things that are still aggravating:

1. Dunn's slump continues.
2. Phillips continues to be a horrible 2-hole hitter (though he went 2-6).
3. The bullpen is still very hittable (I know, everyone knew that).
4. Todd Coffey continues to be the most confusing player here, throwing
10 pitches--9 of them for stikes and still allowed three straight hits,
then throws tr=hree almost perfect pitches to get out of it.

Just goes to show you with good pitching and not having efveryone in a slump, you can win with this bunch. May the force continue.

But is this the beginning of the bats waking up and the team playing well??

Nothing like taking a small sample size and replacing it with a smaller one.

membengal
04-25-2007, 02:52 PM
The second inning last night was awesome, but the first inning blew...

Roy Tucker
04-25-2007, 03:31 PM
I wonder if Marty has a similar attitude towards the basketball players of today?

Back in his ABA days I bet he drooled over Billy Cunningham

He thought Dr. J and George Gervin were scrappy.

Spring~Fields
04-25-2007, 04:35 PM
Wells came into the game with an ERA in the low 3's. The Reds increased it to 4.70.

That's a little unfair to say they feasted on a 4.70 guy.

You would be right if I had not keyed the words "so often" meaning that I have looked many many times over the seasons to see why there was a change in the hitting all of a sudden of a team or individual and found nothing earth shaking, I usually simply see a pitcher normally who is not that good and of course the hitters hammer away. No news there.

Yet we have all seen a team struggling get untracked and go on to have a nice string of wins after such feast. Let's hope.

Spring~Fields
04-25-2007, 04:52 PM
What looked so good last night was that a lot of guys contributed. That needs to be the case more often than not.

Yes.

"alot of guys contributed"

One of the reasons that I have tried to back off of Dunn or Griffey whining is because I can't reconcile being negative about them "all" the time when there are six other guys who are suppose to be pulling their weight, last night they did, most nights they don't and it seems the focus all falls on Griffey or Dunn to walk on water and when they can't the other six fly under the radar and escape scrutiny.

To me being unfair is blaming Dunn and Griffey even if it is true that they have some flaws, when there are six other guys that don’t do as well as them.

Matt700wlw
04-25-2007, 04:56 PM
Actually overheard on WLW last night in the fifth:

So, no love from Dad, but Thom noticed.

Had Marty and Thom went on a tangent about Dunn (good or bad) and missed play by play, the forum would be full of people complaining they weren't worried about the game

:D

redsfan30
04-25-2007, 05:20 PM
Had Marty and Thom went on a tangent about Dunn (good or bad) and missed play by play, the forum would be full of people complaining they weren't worried about the game

:D

Beat me to it. Marty shouldn't have said a kind word about Dunn because we can't miss a second of that play-by-play, ya know.

Redsland
04-25-2007, 05:53 PM
Marty shouldn't have said a kind word about Dunn because we can't miss a second of that play-by-play, ya know.
Of what? His golf game?

:)

Chip R
04-25-2007, 05:59 PM
Dude he had a "Productive out" too, moving the runner up to second. You'd think the strike out crew would stop wringing their hands long enough to note such an event.


Dare we say he was scrappy?

reds44
04-25-2007, 06:12 PM
Our offense is much better then it has been hitting. The starting pitching needs to stay solid.

Handofdeath
04-25-2007, 09:52 PM
Simply put, there are no Oswalts, Wheelers, Carpenters, Pujols, Sheets, Santanas on this team. Winners have to have those guys.

Yes but, Pujols and Carpenter got their rings from a team that just as easily could have finished 3rd in the division. Oswalt has gotten hit hard in 2 of the 5 postseason series he's pitched in. Wheeler is a middle reliever with 17 career saves at age 29 and with a career ERA barely under 4.00. Santana's postseason ERA is just barely under 4.00. Sheets has had one good season and his W-L record is 9 games under .500. 4 of the 6 guys don't have World Series rings and the other 2 were lucky to even get to the playoffs the year they won. Having those players doesn't guarantee anything. Pujols hit .200 in the World Series last season but they still won. Remdog called this year's Reds team a "collection of parts" but if those parts each have a role and do it well they will be successful.

flyer85
04-25-2007, 10:02 PM
have they reached the end again?

edabbs44
04-25-2007, 11:46 PM
Question: Was this the beginning??

Answer: No

WVRedsFan
04-26-2007, 12:10 AM
Well, so much for that theory. 2 runs and 5 hits tonight, which just ain't gonna do it.

Spring~Fields
04-26-2007, 12:43 AM
Glad I rode the fence. :D

Ltlabner
04-26-2007, 09:17 AM
Back to thread topic idea number 1: "Where's the offense".

KronoRed
04-26-2007, 02:15 PM
Bob Boone stole it

membengal
04-26-2007, 02:20 PM
Freel's leadoff pop-up today made me despair in the depths of my soul. They are never going to win another game. Then Alex G tripled, and it became clear that the team would never lose again. Then Phillips doubled home Alex G but was thrown out trying to get to third. Now I am confused. How will the season come out? Then Conine made an out, and I am forced to conlude they will never win again.

It is only by great discipline that I did not start a seperate thread questioning Narron for each of those individual outcomes...

Ltlabner
04-26-2007, 06:39 PM
Freel's leadoff pop-up today made me despair in the depths of my soul. They are never going to win another game. Then Alex G tripled, and it became clear that the team would never lose again. Then Phillips doubled home Alex G but was thrown out trying to get to third. Now I am confused. How will the season come out? Then Conine made an out, and I am forced to conlude they will never win again.

It is only by great discipline that I did not start a seperate thread questioning Narron for each of those individual outcomes...

:bowrofl: