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keeganbrick
04-25-2007, 04:56 PM
I'm watching this show right now and this one guy(dont know his name) is scrutinizing Griffey for choosing to go to Cincinnati and saying he never worked hard throughout his whole career. Seems a little harsh to say he never worked hard, he may not be the hardest worker on the team but its not like he never worked at getting better like they are making it out to be. Boo this show right now :thumbdown

Razor Shines
04-25-2007, 04:59 PM
I'm watching this show right now and this one guy(dont know his name) is scrutinizing Griffey for choosing to go to Cincinnati and saying he never worked hard throughout his whole career. Seems a little harsh to say he never worked hard, he may not be the hardest worker on the team but its not like he never worked at getting better like they are making it out to be. Boo this show right now :thumbdown

If that's what he really said then that's dumb. You can't become a HOFer without working hard. Some people think these guys just roll out of bed and hit 550+ homers and win 10 Gold Gloves, it doesn't happen that way.

KYRed
04-25-2007, 05:03 PM
Here's what I posted in the other thread, a recap of the show.

The segment title was Griffey Jr: Should he have Done More?

Griffey's getting slammed basically as a topic on Rome is Burning. I'll leave my opinions out of it, and tell you what they said.

1 guest said he has coasted by on talent alone, and is not a hard worker that would ever get with the team. They compared him to ARod, saying that the two guys don't like each other and didn't get along in the past when together. He said ARod worked hard, while Griffey was the opposite.

The 2nd guest said he will be remembered for what he didn't do. Didn't set the home run record, didn't make or win a WS. Truth be known, this guy is a college football analyst. Apparentely that makes him qualified to comment on MLB issues.

Rome didn't comment too much, mostly asking for their opinions. The first guest said you can say it didn't hurt too bad, since he still is a HOF lock, but he could have been so much more. Both acknowledged injuries, but made them out to be more of an excuse. They were referring to him in Cincy overall, not this year.

Both seemed to agree that he went home to Cincy to sit out in the pasture in his hometown and collect a paycheck until he was too old, but that the fire was gone and he was happy knowing he was already set as a star for the ages.

Overall, I'll slip my opinion in a little to say that while they didn't get outright mean, they were basically throwing darts at his face for several minutes today.

Redsland
04-25-2007, 05:13 PM
Revisionist.

Griffey came here to help build on a 96-win season and to win a championship on his hometown team with fellow Moeller grad and future HoFer Barry Larkin while Coach Dad watched from the dugout. He didn't come here to be put out to pasture and collect a paycheck.

Unfortunately, injuries and Lindner/Bowden intervened.

Razor Shines
04-25-2007, 05:13 PM
Here's what I posted in the other thread, a recap of the show.

The segment title was Griffey Jr: Should he have Done More?

Griffey's getting slammed basically as a topic on Rome is Burning. I'll leave my opinions out of it, and tell you what they said.

1 guest said he has coasted by on talent alone, and is not a hard worker that would ever get with the team. They compared him to ARod, saying that the two guys don't like each other and didn't get along in the past when together. He said ARod worked hard, while Griffey was the opposite.

The 2nd guest said he will be remembered for what he didn't do. Didn't set the home run record, didn't make or win a WS. Truth be known, this guy is a college football analyst. Apparentely that makes him qualified to comment on MLB issues.

Rome didn't comment too much, mostly asking for their opinions. The first guest said you can say it didn't hurt too bad, since he still is a HOF lock, but he could have been so much more. Both acknowledged injuries, but made them out to be more of an excuse. They were referring to him in Cincy overall, not this year.

.
Those two guys must be Reds' fans.

reds44
04-25-2007, 05:15 PM
Isn't it a known fact the Griffey didn't do much weight training in the offseason? He was a natural. That's not saying he didn't work.

I think he could have done even more, which is a scary thought. The question is, would offseason training in his younger days prevented some of his injuries now? I don't think we'll ever know.

TeamSelig
04-25-2007, 05:18 PM
I can't stand Griffey haters

Razor Shines
04-25-2007, 05:19 PM
Isn't it a known fact the Griffey didn't do much weight training in the offseason? He was a natural. That's not saying he didn't work.

I think he could have done even more, which is a scary thought. The question is, would offseason training in his younger days prevented some of his injuries now? I don't think we'll ever know.

I don't think any amount of weight training would prevent the punishment that years of playing on turf provided his legs. And I have no idea how much weight training Jr. did or did not do. Without injuries I'd be he'd have over 650 home runs right now and possibly closing in on 700. And nobody would question how hard he worked.

Redsland
04-25-2007, 05:21 PM
If he lifted more weights he probably could have been one of the top ten power hitters of all time.

reds44
04-25-2007, 05:22 PM
I don't think any amount of weight training would prevent the punishment that years of playing on turf provided his legs. And I have no idea how much weight training Jr. did or did not do. Without injuries I'd be he'd have over 650 home runs right now and possibly closing in on 700. And nobody would question how hard he worked.
Which is exactly why Rome brought the topic up.

The real question is, if he had worked harder could he have prevented some of these injuries and be making a run and Aaron right now?

It's not hating on Griffey, and I'm not bashing him. It's a legit question.

Redsland
04-25-2007, 05:24 PM
The real question is, if he had worked harder could he have prevented some of these injuries and be making a run and Aaron right now?
Pulled hamstrings and quads, dislocated toes and shoulders. Blown knees. I'm no expert, but I have a hard time believing that weight training would have prevented Griffey's injuries.

reds44
04-25-2007, 05:26 PM
Pulled hamstrings and quads, dislocated toes and shoulders. I'm no expert, but I have a hard time believing that weight training would have prevented Griffey's injuries.
If not weight training, then some other type of training couldn't have at least helped to prevent these type of injuries? I think you could prevent pulled hammy's and quad. Dislocated shoulders, not so much.

There's a reason why his body has broken down.

Puffy
04-25-2007, 05:26 PM
Pulled hamstrings and quads, dislocated toes and shoulders. I'm no expert, but I have a hard time believing that weight training would have prevented Griffey's injuries.

facts, facts, facts, blah, blah, blah.

Razor Shines
04-25-2007, 05:26 PM
Which is exactly why Rome brought the topic up.

The real question is, if he had worked harder could he have prevented some of these injuries and be making a run and Aaron right now?

It's not hating on Griffey, and I'm not bashing him. It's a legit question.

And I said IMO there's probably not much he could have done to prevent the injuries because of all those years running down fly balls on astroturf. I'm not saying that bringing up the topic bashing him but saying the injuries are just an excuse is.

reds44
04-25-2007, 05:28 PM
And I said IMO there's probably not much he could have done to prevent the injuries because of all those years running down fly balls on astroturf. I'm not saying that bringing up the topic bashing him but saying the injuries are just an excuse is.
Fair enough. The astro-turf argument is definatley a fair point. Although, he's not the only one to play CF on astro turf for long periods of time.

Puffy
04-25-2007, 05:28 PM
If not weight training, then some other type of training couldn't have at least helped to prevent these type of injuries?

There's a reason why his body has broken down.

You honestly think there is training that could prevent a dislocated toe?

And do you know that weight training stretches muscles and actually makes them more susceptible to pulled hamstrings and groins?

Griffey got some fluke injuries. Then he got older. When you get to our age you'll realize this

Matt700wlw
04-25-2007, 05:30 PM
The real question is, if he had worked harder could he have prevented some of these injuries and be making a run and Aaron right now?



Not playing on that awful turf in the King Dome for 10 years may have prevented a lot of it....mostly the leg problems.

however, he couldn't control that

dabvu2498
04-25-2007, 05:30 PM
And I said IMO there's probably not much he could have done to prevent the injuries because of all those years running down fly balls on astroturf. I'm not saying that bringing up the topic bashing him but saying the injuries are just an excuse is.

The turf argument may well be a good one. Does anyone have access to a study on the comparative numbers of baseball injuries that occurred to players who played most of their games on turf vs. grass? I'm sure they're out there. Anybody have one available for perusal?

reds44
04-25-2007, 05:31 PM
You honestly think there is training that could prevent a dislocated toe?

And do you know that weight training stretches muscles and actually makes them more susceptible to pulled hamstrings and groins?

Griffey got some fluke injuries. Then he got older. When you get to our age you'll realize this
I said earlier there's probably nothing you could do to prevent dislocated toe's or shoulders.

However, there's things you can to prevent pulled muscles. Maybe not weight training, but things like stretching often would help prevent it.

Griffey isn't the must unlucky person in the world. There is a reason why his body has broken down.

dabvu2498
04-25-2007, 05:32 PM
Isn't it a known fact the Griffey didn't do much weight training in the offseason? He was a natural. That's not saying he didn't work.

I think he could have done even more, which is a scary thought. The question is, would offseason training in his younger days prevented some of his injuries now? I don't think we'll ever know.

By that strand of thinking, guys from the 70s on back would have been injured all the time.

RANDY IN INDY
04-25-2007, 05:32 PM
If he lifted more weights he probably could have been one of the top ten power hitters of all time.

:laugh:

Dom Heffner
04-25-2007, 05:33 PM
I don't hate Griffey, I just think he's useless.

reds44
04-25-2007, 05:33 PM
By that strand of thinking, guys from the 70s on back would have been injured all the time.
Yep, exactly. It's not like astroturf was some new thing in the 90s.

dabvu2498
04-25-2007, 05:36 PM
Yep, exactly. It's not like astroturf was some new thing in the 90s.

Nono... I mean there were alot of guys who played injury-free for alot of years who never touched a weight... didn't spend a minute of their off season working out. That's where I was going.

Fullboat
04-25-2007, 05:36 PM
It can be as simple as genes.A body breaks down sooner or
later:dunno:

hebroncougar
04-25-2007, 05:37 PM
Fair enough. The astro-turf argument is definatley a fair point. Although, he's not the only one to play CF on astro turf for long periods of time.

I've always thought that as well. He's certainly not the only OF to play a long time on Astroturf. I'm not saying injuries aren't a factor in his career, but I think it's a stretch to blame in on turf.

dougdirt
04-25-2007, 05:43 PM
Between this and the crap that is on 1530 Homer right now I dont ever want to hear another writer ever talk about baseball again when they don't cover it. Greg Doyle wants Adam Dunn out of the line up because he strikes out to much, Griffey and Edwin to platoon in the outfield, Hamilton hitting leadoff, Freel at third base and then blames Griffey and Dunn for not making the playoffs but hasnt said 1 word about how bad the pitching has been their entire careers as Reds.....
I almost called in just to say 'I am really glad you dont cover baseball for a living because you are a freakin moron'. But instead I just chose to turn it off.

jimbo
04-25-2007, 05:59 PM
I've always thought that as well. He's certainly not the only OF to play a long time on Astroturf. I'm not saying injuries aren't a factor in his career, but I think it's a stretch to blame in on turf.

Have you ever played baseball on turf? And I mean the older turf that was in the Kingdome, not the newer turf they are using today that is a lot more forgiving. I played one game in the outfield on astroturf back when I played in high school at Clipper Stadium in Columbus. The thing I remember the most was my knees and ankles hurting for several days afterwards, and were just talking a mere 7 innings here. And I was using plastic spikes, not metal, and was in excellent shape.

For those of you who do not think that playing on astroturf, especially back in the 80's and early 90's, has that much of affect on your legs then I can only suggest that if you can find a way to try it, do it. There is no amount of condition, training, etc. that can prepare you body to play on that crap over an extended period of time. It is going to do damage.

Degenerate39
04-25-2007, 06:08 PM
I can't stand Griffey haters

Me either

RedsManRick
04-25-2007, 06:12 PM
I had goalie camp on an old turf field. We did lots of agility drills and diving -- it was so painful. It's basically concrete covered in a thin layer of plastic. Horrible stuff.

westofyou
04-25-2007, 06:21 PM
There's a reason why his body has broken down.

It's called attrition, give me a call in 15 years and let me know how you're holding up.

Gravity is your master.

BurgervilleBuck
04-25-2007, 06:21 PM
But instead I just chose to turn it off.
That was the smartest decision.

I listen to Lance McCallister driving home from work. Yesterday, he was all over Krivsky for saying the offense was in a slump and it's still too early in the season. Lance unloads, bringing out stats that beginning at such & such a date last year, the offense has been uber-anemic and basically defying anyone to prove him wrong.

I log on to his blog (http://www.1530homer.com/pages/lancesBlog.html) today and see this:

I don't know about you......
but I've always loved this Reds offense

Which pretty much tells you all you need to know about sports talk radio.

KYRed
04-25-2007, 06:22 PM
I had goalie camp on an old turf field. We did lots of agility drills and diving.

I heard they were doing that same practice down at the detention camp at Guantanamo. Sounds like fun! :laugh:

Matt700wlw
04-25-2007, 06:25 PM
That was the smartest decision.

I listen to Lance McCallister driving home from work. Yesterday, he was all over Krivsky for saying the offense was in a slump and it's still too early in the season. Lance unloads, bringing out stats that beginning at such & such a date last year, the offense has been uber-anemic and basically defying anyone to prove him wrong.

I log on to his blog (http://www.1530homer.com/pages/lancesBlog.html) today and see this:


Which pretty much tells you all you need to know about sports talk radio.

And if Lance would have been in today, he would have mentioned that post about loving that Reds offense and laughed....it was a tongue in cheek comment, since after his tirade on their lack of offense, they all of a sudden turn it on.

Just because they couldn't NOT get a hit last night doesn't mean they're ok now.

BurgervilleBuck
04-25-2007, 06:29 PM
Just because they couldn't NOT get a hit last night doesn't mean they're ok now.
Oh, I never said the problem's solved. They had one good game against a bad Cardinals team and they could have nine straight bad games to round out the road trip. But my point is, stuff said by talk radio show hosts are said just to get folks riled up. I'm sure that's a major newsflash. ;)

Matt700wlw
04-25-2007, 06:43 PM
Oh, I never said the problem's solved. They had one good game against a bad Cardinals team and they could have nine straight bad games to round out the road trip. But my point is, stuff said by talk radio show hosts are said just to get folks riled up. I'm sure that's a major newsflash. ;)

Never. They wouldn't do that :)

dougdirt
04-25-2007, 07:05 PM
That was the smartest decision.

I listen to Lance McCallister driving home from work. Yesterday, he was all over Krivsky for saying the offense was in a slump and it's still too early in the season. Lance unloads, bringing out stats that beginning at such & such a date last year, the offense has been uber-anemic and basically defying anyone to prove him wrong.

I log on to his blog (http://www.1530homer.com/pages/lancesBlog.html) today and see this:


Which pretty much tells you all you need to know about sports talk radio.

Lance was very much kidding when he put that. He was laughing at himself with that comment because of what he said yesterday, thats just the kind of guy he is.

Jr's Boy
04-25-2007, 07:18 PM
That idiot Rome has done this before.Must have been a slow news day.I wish that guy would come back on the show and kick his ass again.

CrackerJack
04-25-2007, 07:19 PM
Oh, I never said the problem's solved. They had one good game against a bad Cardinals team and they could have nine straight bad games to round out the road trip. But my point is, stuff said by talk radio show hosts are said just to get folks riled up. I'm sure that's a major newsflash. ;)

So pretending the Reds' offense is something it isn't, just to maintain those early season warm-fuzzies, is any different than "just saying things to rile people up?"

Didn't Lou Pinella warn Jr. that he should take better care of himself in Seattle long ago, and that he would pay for it later in life?

I suppose some folks here know more than Lou about Jr.'s off-field conditioning habits in Seattle?

I think that's a reasonable statement by Lou - and it turns out, based on Jr.'s injury history in his 30's, that he may have been right to whatever extent.

Oh well. I hope Griffey Jr. helps this team win games this year, and that's all I really care about ultimately. We'll certainly never know that answer ultimately, but I'm inclined to think Lou's warning at least had/has some merit.

griffeyfreak4
04-25-2007, 07:29 PM
I can't stand Griffey haters
I couldn't agree more

Will
04-25-2007, 07:39 PM
How many years was Rose on turf ? 17 years between Philly, Montreal and Cincy ? Pretty sure it was the "old, crappy turf " wasn't it ? I don't know much about Pete's conditioning program, but he played most of his career on the turf mentioned above. Pete only played 7 years on the grass at Crosley. I don't think anyone has ever played harder than Pete did. I don't remember him being on the D.L. for any length of time in his first 20 years playing either.

hebroncougar
04-25-2007, 07:39 PM
Have you ever played baseball on turf? And I mean the older turf that was in the Kingdome, not the newer turf they are using today that is a lot more forgiving. I played one game in the outfield on astroturf back when I played in high school at Clipper Stadium in Columbus. The thing I remember the most was my knees and ankles hurting for several days afterwards, and were just talking a mere 7 innings here. And I was using plastic spikes, not metal, and was in excellent shape.

For those of you who do not think that playing on astroturf, especially back in the 80's and early 90's, has that much of affect on your legs then I can only suggest that if you can find a way to try it, do it. There is no amount of condition, training, etc. that can prepare you body to play on that crap over an extended period of time. It is going to do damage.

Nope, sure haven't. But plenty of other major leaguers in Philly, Pitts, Stl., Min, Seattle, Cincy, KC, Montreal, and Houston did (and evidently Columbus and lots of other minor league stadiums). That's my point. I'm not pretending to be an expert, but there were hundreds of guys that did.

westofyou
04-25-2007, 07:43 PM
The Circle has been completed, Peter Rose has now entered the discussion.

Note: Pete Rose was a freak, he was a physical freak of nature, current example of hard work plus luck on the injury front can be seen in Chris Chelios of the Red Wings. Guys like that are anomalies. There are more bodies that fall apart then stay together and using Rose as a barometer is not fair (not to mention faulty, considering after 74 he played IF only.)

westofyou
04-25-2007, 07:49 PM
Nope, sure haven't. But plenty of other major leaguers in Philly, Pitts, Stl., Min, Seattle, Cincy, KC, Montreal, and Houston did (and evidently Columbus and lots of other minor league stadiums). That's my point. I'm not pretending to be an expert, but there were hundreds of guys that did.

Lets file it down then. Take only Center Fielders and then take only Center Fielders that top 190 in weight. Then just look at the last 37 years.

Then figure out who played on turf, and who might have had more away games on turf. Either way including his days in Cincinnati(699 games) Junior has played more games in CF then any other guy with that body type.


CAREER
1970-2007
CF
WEIGHT >= 190

GAMES G
1 Ken Griffey Jr. 2234
2 Marquis Grissom 2067
3 Jim Edmonds 1585
4 Chet Lemon 1479
5 Dave Henderson 1407
6 Lloyd Moseby 1400
7 Mike Cameron 1294
8 Rick Monday 1275
9 Willie Wilson 1246
10 Dale Murphy 1222
11 Carlos Beltran 1176
12 Andy Van Slyke 1137
13 Gorman Thomas 1088
14 Torii Hunter 1073
15 Al Oliver 1000
16 Preston Wilson 940
17 Ron LeFlore 878
18 Vernon Wells 821
19 Mike Devereaux 790
20 Carl Everett 775
21 George Hendrick 745
22 Chris Singleton 676
23 Aaron Rowand 625
24 Jose Cruz Jr. 583
25 Chili Davis 577

Dunner44
04-25-2007, 07:56 PM
I don't know what all this crap is about Jr. not working. Maybe he doesn't have a huge off-season workout, but his reputation is as a guy who is taking batting practice two hours before anyone else shows up. Griffey works as hard if not harder than anyone else, and that is why he is 10th all time in homers.

jimbo
04-25-2007, 08:01 PM
Nope, sure haven't. But plenty of other major leaguers in Philly, Pitts, Stl., Min, Seattle, Cincy, KC, Montreal, and Houston did (and evidently Columbus and lots of other minor league stadiums). That's my point. I'm not pretending to be an expert, but there were hundreds of guys that did.

But you're not going to find many players who played 11 straight seasons in the outfield in a home park with astroturf. And at the time, the turf at the Kingdome had a reputation for being one of the worst playing fields in the majors.

GoGoWhiteSox
04-25-2007, 09:36 PM
Didn't Andre Dawson have bad knees as a result of playing on Montreal's turf for an extended period?:dunno:

rotnoid
04-25-2007, 09:41 PM
Fair enough. The astro-turf argument is definatley a fair point. Although, he's not the only one to play CF on astro turf for long periods of time.

True, but he's most likely the only one that had a legitimate shot at Aaron that did. Any other guys that were beaten down by turf (Torii Hunter comes to mind as one potentially) weren't overshadowed by what could have been. It takes a special player to draw all of these comparisons and speculation.

Yachtzee
04-25-2007, 09:58 PM
Jim Rome has always had an ax to grind against Junior. I can remember when I used to listen to his radio show and Rome always referred to Junior as "Ken Grumpy, Jr." I think he was ticked because Junior didn't want to come on his show or something. It doesn't surprise me that he would have two hacks on to take pot shots at Junior.

BurgervilleBuck
04-25-2007, 10:06 PM
The Circle has been completed, Peter Rose has now entered the discussion.
Is Pete Rose the Cincinnati Godwin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law)?:laugh:

Team Clark
04-25-2007, 10:12 PM
Here's what I posted in the other thread, a recap of the show.

The segment title was Griffey Jr: Should he have Done More?

Griffey's getting slammed basically as a topic on Rome is Burning. I'll leave my opinions out of it, and tell you what they said.

1 guest said he has coasted by on talent alone, and is not a hard worker that would ever get with the team. They compared him to ARod, saying that the two guys don't like each other and didn't get along in the past when together. He said ARod worked hard, while Griffey was the opposite.

The 2nd guest said he will be remembered for what he didn't do. Didn't set the home run record, didn't make or win a WS. Truth be known, this guy is a college football analyst. Apparentely that makes him qualified to comment on MLB issues.

Rome didn't comment too much, mostly asking for their opinions. The first guest said you can say it didn't hurt too bad, since he still is a HOF lock, but he could have been so much more. Both acknowledged injuries, but made them out to be more of an excuse. They were referring to him in Cincy overall, not this year.

Both seemed to agree that he went home to Cincy to sit out in the pasture in his hometown and collect a paycheck until he was too old, but that the fire was gone and he was happy knowing he was already set as a star for the ages.

Overall, I'll slip my opinion in a little to say that while they didn't get outright mean, they were basically throwing darts at his face for several minutes today.

Talk about fabrication loosely based on reality.... WHEW! I had this same type of stuff slung at me. Not cool. :thumbdown IMO, the problem is there are people dumb enough to overlook the facts and believe, without a shadow of a doubt, the pure fabrication. :cry: AROD and Griff were very close. Never any rift I have ever heard about or read about. Any bit of info that I recall says everything to the contrary.

Griff did not become a gym rat early in his career. It was not fashionable in '89-92 to do that, IIRC. Will Clark never lifted weights. I guess he was a slacker too. Once Griff was injured in Cincinnati you couldn't get him out of the gym. Has anyone seen his arms and legs the last 5-6 years? There was only one issue that I can ever remember. I remember reading a little blurb in the Enquirer about Reds sending a trainer to see him in Orlando and Griff sent him home. Griff wanted Kremchek to come down not one of his ponies.

I know Griff is not the player he was in '99. Anybody expecting him to be needs their head examined. The only hope is that he can be productive for 100-110 games. My humble expectations anyway. It's a shame there is so much hate for a guy that has been hit hard by fate.

RFS62
04-25-2007, 10:21 PM
I wouldn't hit a dog in the ass with Jim Rome.

Red Daddy
04-25-2007, 10:40 PM
I don't lift weights and I've never pulled my hammy. I did, however, hurt my toe...very painful....I dropped a dumbbell on it!!



Just thought I'd add to this very long thread about nothing.

KYRedsFan
04-25-2007, 11:34 PM
He dislocated multiple joints and tore his hamstring in a case that is truly remarkable in the sports medicine literature to even happen, much less fix, and even near impossible to come back from. These are not chronic wear and tear injuries people. They are high energy traumatic injuries that you get in the blink of an eye from busting your ass, not years of "slacking" or playing on astroturf. There is no answer to nonsense such as this other than shut up. He should be a hero to fans in Cincy, but all he gets is grief. Sad city at times.

Chip R
04-26-2007, 12:09 AM
Hindsight is 20/20. Maybe Jr. didn't work out in the offseason when he was with the M's. Why should he have? He was never out of shape. He had a perfect body for baseball. No injuries except one when he was trying to make a catch over the wall. As for strength, this was a guy who hit the warehouse in RF at Camden Yards during a HR hitting contest. Why would he even consider lifting weights? When Jr. hit 56 HRs guys like Sosa and McGwire were hitting 60-70 HRs. But thse two had to pump iron to get strong enough to hit all those HRs. Maybe they were juicing but that's not the point. Jr. hit almost as many as they did without touching a barbell. How impressive is that? 10 years ago if someone came to him and told him that he was going to start getting injured quite a bit after 2000 but if he started working out, he'd be OK, you think he wouldn't have started working out right there and then? Say what you want about the man but he wants to play and play every day. He's not one of those guys who has a headache and won't play.

WVRedsFan
04-26-2007, 12:24 AM
Fair enough. The astro-turf argument is definatley a fair point. Although, he's not the only one to play CF on astro turf for long periods of time.

Each body is different. If you've ever played or even walked on the old turf that Griffey played on (and like we had at Riverfront all those years), it was like walking on a concrete slab floor for a living. I've done it for 20 years, and let me tell you, I have my problems. Nothing serious, but my partner had two knee operations and a hip replacement. Our behavior was not any different and neither of us were in bad physical condition. The difference was that concrete slab floor. He broke down and I didn't.

The first time I sat foot on Riverfront/Cinergy was 1976. It was my first experience on that Astroturf and I couldn't believe how bad it was. I later was ont he field at West Virginia University and it was worse. Thanks goodness, most teams are getting away from using turf.

RFS62
04-26-2007, 07:04 AM
He dislocated multiple joints and tore his hamstring in a case that is truly remarkable in the sports medicine literature to even happen, much less fix, and even near impossible to come back from. These are not chronic wear and tear injuries people. They are high energy traumatic injuries that you get in the blink of an eye from busting your ass, not years of "slacking" or playing on astroturf. There is no answer to nonsense such as this other than shut the #$!* up. He should be a hero to fans in Cincy, but all he gets is grief. Sad city at times.



Excellent post.

44Magnum
04-26-2007, 08:22 AM
Lou Pinella said years ago that Jr. would pay for not working hard when he got older. Jr. was just naturally talented and thought it was enough.

bucksfan2
04-26-2007, 08:29 AM
Hindsight is 20/20. Maybe Jr. didn't work out in the offseason when he was with the M's. Why should he have? He was never out of shape. He had a perfect body for baseball. No injuries except one when he was trying to make a catch over the wall. As for strength, this was a guy who hit the warehouse in RF at Camden Yards during a HR hitting contest. Why would he even consider lifting weights? When Jr. hit 56 HRs guys like Sosa and McGwire were hitting 60-70 HRs. But thse two had to pump iron to get strong enough to hit all those HRs. Maybe they were juicing but that's not the point. Jr. hit almost as many as they did without touching a barbell. How impressive is that? 10 years ago if someone came to him and told him that he was going to start getting injured quite a bit after 2000 but if he started working out, he'd be OK, you think he wouldn't have started working out right there and then? Say what you want about the man but he wants to play and play every day. He's not one of those guys who has a headache and won't play.

Lifting weights and offseason daily weight training was never a big part of the game when Jr. was young. Sosa and McGwire hr chace brought lifting weights into the picture of your everyday player. Before that chase there was a smaller group of players who were big into weight lifting (Canseco) but it was not in the spotlight. For Rome and all of his guess I would ask them to go run around and play CF in a pick up game, get up the next morning and do it again, and again, and again.

durl
04-26-2007, 12:03 PM
Didn't Lou Pinella warn Jr. that he should take better care of himself in Seattle long ago, and that he would pay for it later in life?

I suppose some folks here know more than Lou about Jr.'s off-field conditioning habits in Seattle?

I think that's a reasonable statement by Lou - and it turns out, based on Jr.'s injury history in his 30's, that he may have been right to whatever extent.

Lou wanted Griffey to improve his "radar" in the outfield and be more careful to not collide with the wall. - http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/1997/yearinreview/magazine/griffeyverducci.html

"'He's a very professional player. He thrives on playing well and being productive, and I don't see that as a distraction,[then-potential trade]' Piniella said. 'I look forward to him being in our lineup and playing center field.'" - http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/mari085.shtml

I believe Lou did say something about Jr. not doing what Lou thought was appropriate conditioning when he was younger, but I can't find a reference. Lou is BIG on conditioning.

TeamBoone
04-26-2007, 12:10 PM
The real question is, if he had worked harder could he have prevented some of these injuries and be making a run and Aaron right now?

Do you know whether or not he worked hard in his pre-Cincinnati years? Do any of us know?

Why was the KGJr topic even brought up on Rome's show? It's not like he's in the news right now. I don't get it.

HUHUH
04-26-2007, 10:06 PM
Revisionist.

Griffey came here to help build on a 96-win season and to win a championship on his hometown team with fellow Moeller grad and future HoFer Barry Larkin while Coach Dad watched from the dugout. He didn't come here to be put out to pasture and collect a paycheck.

Unfortunately, injuries and Lindner/Bowden intervened.

Unfortunately, Griffey and Larkin sabotaged McKeown and got him fired. Griffey's "LEADERSHIP" (and Barry's, for that matter) has since led to a bunch of stinking teams.

Griffey is a loser through and through. He came to Cincinnati because the expectations were lower and he could get by with not giving it his all.

Which he has never done.

Ron Madden
04-26-2007, 10:19 PM
Griffey is a loser through and through. He came to Cincinnati because the expectations were lower and he could get by with not giving it his all.
Which he has never done.

Good Lord! :rolleyes:

TeamBoone
04-26-2007, 10:22 PM
Unfortunately, Griffey and Larkin sabotaged McKeown and got him fired. Griffey's "LEADERSHIP" (and Barry's, for that matter) has since led to a bunch of stinking teams.

Griffey is a loser through and through. He came to Cincinnati because the expectations were lower and he could get by with not giving it his all.

Which he has never done.

Wow!

When did you get inside Griffey's head and read all his thoughts and intentions? If you truly can do that, I hope you're making a whole lot of money because of your gift.

dougdirt
04-26-2007, 10:25 PM
Unfortunately, Griffey and Larkin sabotaged McKeown and got him fired. Griffey's "LEADERSHIP" (and Barry's, for that matter) has since led to a bunch of stinking teams.

Griffey is a loser through and through. He came to Cincinnati because the expectations were lower and he could get by with not giving it his all.

Which he has never done.

You are right. Griffey caused the Reds to stink.... not the fact that the pitching has sucked.



Year ERA NL Rank Record
2000 4.33 5 85-77
2001 4.77 14 66-96
2002 4.27 11 78-84
2003 5.09 15 69-93
2004 5.19 15 76-86
2005 5.15 16 73-89
2006 4.51 7 80-82


Wow, look at that, twice the Reds were inside the top half of the league in team ERA and they won 80 games both years. Imagine that. Im sure Griffey had a ton to do with that though, right?

jimbo
04-27-2007, 12:24 AM
Unfortunately, Griffey and Larkin sabotaged McKeown and got him fired. Griffey's "LEADERSHIP" (and Barry's, for that matter) has since led to a bunch of stinking teams.

Griffey is a loser through and through. He came to Cincinnati because the expectations were lower and he could get by with not giving it his all.

Which he has never done.

Reading crap like this makes me embarrassed to be a Reds fan. :explode:

WVRedsFan
04-27-2007, 12:45 AM
I wouldn't hit a dog in the ass with Jim Rome.I'm a little late on this, but...

Ditto.

WVRedsFan
04-27-2007, 12:52 AM
Unfortunately, Griffey and Larkin sabotaged McKeown and got him fired. Griffey's "LEADERSHIP" (and Barry's, for that matter) has since led to a bunch of stinking teams.

Griffey is a loser through and through. He came to Cincinnati because the expectations were lower and he could get by with not giving it his all.

Which he has never done.

That's just sick.

1. Players usually get by with what the manager lets them get by with. You're basing this on one incident for which we have no inside knowlege of. My understanding was that mostof the players had little respect for McKeon behind the scenes.
2. Look at the numbers, bub. Those are not loser statistics. As for not giving his all. How close do you watch Griffey? All I've seen is a player dedicated to doing his best.

Like someone else said, this makes me ashamed of being a Reds fan.

westofyou
04-27-2007, 09:36 AM
Griffey is a loser through and through. He came to Cincinnati because the expectations were lower and he could get by with not giving it his all.

Wow, that's a cheap shot without an ounce of intelligence added to at least make it passable.

dabvu2498
04-27-2007, 09:38 AM
Wow, that's a cheap shot without an ounce of intelligence added to at least make it passable.

And it's not even funny.

coachw513
04-27-2007, 11:22 AM
Unfortunately, Griffey and Larkin sabotaged McKeown and got him fired. Griffey's "LEADERSHIP" (and Barry's, for that matter) has since led to a bunch of stinking teams.

Griffey is a loser through and through. He came to Cincinnati because the expectations were lower and he could get by with not giving it his all.

Which he has never done.

Please tell me you forgot to put in the smilies which indicate sarcasm...seriously, I understand being frustrated with no winning seasons in a great while but THIS???...proof of why I tread lightly on any thread concerning Griffey because I literally might have my brain explode...

Rocket_Fuel
04-27-2007, 06:49 PM
It's common knowledge that Rome hates Griffey because he has refused to come "into the jungle" and be interviewed. He ripped Barkley for years, including making fun of Barkley's career ending injury, because Barkley would refuse to come onto the show. Rome is a joke.

keeganbrick
04-27-2007, 06:54 PM
Do you know whether or not he worked hard in his pre-Cincinnati years? Do any of us know?

Why was the KGJr topic even brought up on Rome's show? It's not like he's in the news right now. I don't get it.

They were talking about Bonds and the HR record,lol.

StillFunkyB
04-28-2007, 12:15 AM
I cannot stand Rome. I would rather listen to Furman, and I couldn't bare to listen to him either.

The big thing with Rome that drives me up a wall is him eating while he is talking. What's up with that? Like I want to hear you smackin your lips while spouting some off the wall crap that you have no idea of what you are talking about.

StillFunkyB
04-28-2007, 12:18 AM
Unfortunately, Griffey and Larkin sabotaged McKeown and got him fired. Griffey's "LEADERSHIP" (and Barry's, for that matter) has since led to a bunch of stinking teams.

Griffey is a loser through and through. He came to Cincinnati because the expectations were lower and he could get by with not giving it his all.

Which he has never done.

A loser? Really?

10 straight gold gloves, and is considered one of the best players of the past decade?

I'll take that loser any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

HUHUH
04-28-2007, 08:53 AM
Good Lord! :rolleyes:

Be careful. There might be christians reading this.

And secondly, I stand by my comments. How many times has Griffey been in the playoffs? How many times have you read about a teammate talking about his "leadership"?

He was a tremendous talent, no doubt. He's never been a winner.

dougdirt
04-28-2007, 11:29 AM
Be careful. There might be christians reading this.

And secondly, I stand by my comments. How many times has Griffey been in the playoffs? How many times have you read about a teammate talking about his "leadership"?

He was a tremendous talent, no doubt. He's never been a winner.

He has been to the playoffs twice. Tell me when a single player was able to single handedly take his team to the playoffs. You cant because its not possible. Baseball is a team sport and no matter how good one player is, he has to have a good team around him. Ever occur to you that he has just had the unfortunate job of playing on alot of bad teams? And dont come back with the 'they were bad because he was on them' because that doesnt work.

jimbo
04-28-2007, 01:57 PM
Be careful. There might be christians reading this.

And secondly, I stand by my comments. How many times has Griffey been in the playoffs? How many times have you read about a teammate talking about his "leadership"?

He was a tremendous talent, no doubt. He's never been a winner.

That's just a lame argument. Baseball is still very much a team sport. No one person can bring a championship to a team. With Griffey playing on only two teams, both considered small-market, it is not surprising he has never been to the World Series.

Using your flawed logic, I guess A-Rod is a loser also. :rolleyes:

HUHUH
04-29-2007, 07:34 AM
He has been to the playoffs twice. Tell me when a single player was able to single handedly take his team to the playoffs. You cant because its not possible. Baseball is a team sport and no matter how good one player is, he has to have a good team around him. Ever occur to you that he has just had the unfortunate job of playing on alot of bad teams? And dont come back with the 'they were bad because he was on them' because that doesnt work.

Of course baseball is a team game. Duh. But don't tell me one guy can't carry a team. We've seen many times that a single player can lead a team to the playofffs. Joe Morgan, Barry Bonds, Randy Johnson, Stan Musial, Cap Anson, Daryll Strawberry, Johnny Vandermeer, Roberto Clemente, Bob Gibson, Joe Dimagio, Gorman Thomas, Willie McGee.......the list goes on and on.

And yes, A-Rod is a loser. He learned at the feet of the master: Griffey.

RFS62
04-29-2007, 07:46 AM
Be careful. There might be christians reading this.

And secondly, I stand by my comments. How many times has Griffey been in the playoffs? How many times have you read about a teammate talking about his "leadership"?

He was a tremendous talent, no doubt. He's never been a winner.


Of course baseball is a team game. Duh. But don't tell me one guy can't carry a team. We've seen many times that a single player can lead a team to the playofffs. Joe Morgan, Barry Bonds, Randy Johnson, Stan Musial, Cap Anson, Daryll Strawberry, Johnny Vandermeer, Roberto Clemente, Bob Gibson, Joe Dimagio, Gorman Thomas, Willie McGee.......the list goes on and on.

And yes, A-Rod is a loser. He learned at the feet of the master: Griffey.



I'm torn between two reactions to these posts.

The first, you're a freakin' genius. You succinctly and brilliantly came up with a plan to galvanize the Griffey fans out there to come together and defend Junior against such a clearly ignorant rant. In that case, kudos. Fantastic display of reverse psychology. I bow to your superior intellect.

The second, you don't know jack squat about baseball. You're like a guy who watches Dr. Phil and thinks he's a shrink.

I'm leaning heavily towards the latter.

Hoosier Red
04-29-2007, 08:53 AM
Of course baseball is a team game. Duh. But don't tell me one guy can't carry a team. We've seen many times that a single player can lead a team to the playofffs. Joe Morgan, Barry Bonds, Randy Johnson, Stan Musial, Cap Anson, Daryll Strawberry, Johnny Vandermeer, Roberto Clemente, Bob Gibson, Joe Dimagio, Gorman Thomas, Willie McGee.......the list goes on and on.

And yes, A-Rod is a loser. He learned at the feet of the master: Griffey.

Joe Morgan played on perhaps the best team in the history of the game.
Randy Johnson won with Mariners(who won 116 games so it's not like he was the only player) Then he went to Arizona and won with Curt Schilling, and let Curt Schilling tell you how great he is.
Daryl Strawberry only went to the playoffs with the 86 Mets who should have won more World Series if they hadn't all been getting high.

Willie McGee? Seriously,WIllie McGee?

Johnny VanderMeer wasn't even the best pitcher on his team. Bucky Walters won the MVP and would have won the Cy Young if it existed.

dougdirt
04-29-2007, 12:12 PM
Of course baseball is a team game. Duh. But don't tell me one guy can't carry a team. We've seen many times that a single player can lead a team to the playofffs. Joe Morgan, Barry Bonds, Randy Johnson, Stan Musial, Cap Anson, Daryll Strawberry, Johnny Vandermeer, Roberto Clemente, Bob Gibson, Joe Dimagio, Gorman Thomas, Willie McGee.......the list goes on and on.

And yes, A-Rod is a loser. He learned at the feet of the master: Griffey.

Joe Morgan.... the same guy who played on perhaps on of the best teams ever? You cant tell me that Joe Morgan carried them. Can you?

Barry Bonds was on some very good Pirates teams in the early 90's with Bobby Bonilla who was hitting 30 HR and driving in 110 + a year. He also had a Cy Young winner on his pitching staff in 1990. In 1991 the Pirates had 3 15 game winners on their staff, including a 20 game winner. The 1992 Pirates were third in the NL in team ERA with a 3.35 ERA. Surely though Bonds carried those teams. The 97 Giants had 3 players hit 28 or more HR and 100+ RBI. 200 Giants had the NL MVP on their team in Jeff Kent. 2002 Giants, Jeff Kent hit 37 HR and had 108 RBI and they also had all 5 starters get at least 29 starts.

Joe D.... the guy played with 10 different hall of famers.

I am done wasting my time laughing at you.

Eric_Davis
04-29-2007, 01:22 PM
I can't stand Griffey haters

Just because someone makes comments about the truth regarding Griffey doesn't mean that they hate him. In fact, one has nothing to do with the other.

I would hope you could respect people's right to state an opinion on something without calling them haters because you don't like what they say.

jimbo
04-29-2007, 01:56 PM
Just because someone makes comments about the truth regarding Griffey doesn't mean that they hate him. In fact, one has nothing to do with the other.

I would hope you could respect people's right to state an opinion on something without calling them haters because you don't like what they say.

Criticizing a player is one thing, but if you a call player a "loser" you are going to get called out on it. Calling him such a name is not based on the "truth." It is based on hate.

westofyou
04-29-2007, 05:45 PM
Of course baseball is a team game. Duh. But don't tell me one guy can't carry a team. We've seen many times that a single player can lead a team to the playofffs. Joe Morgan, Barry Bonds, Randy Johnson, Stan Musial, Cap Anson, Daryll Strawberry, Johnny Vandermeer, Roberto Clemente, Bob Gibson, Joe Dimagio, Gorman Thomas, Willie McGee.......the list goes on and on.

And yes, A-Rod is a loser. He learned at the feet of the master: Griffey.

Cap Anson?

Hahahahhahha...... King Kelly, Ross Barnes, John Clarkson and Ned Williamson say "Good Day"

Johnny Vander Meer?

Now you're just being silly

Chip R
04-29-2007, 08:43 PM
Cap Anson?



Did he ever win the World Series? I think not. So the man has a point. Unfortunately, it's on his head.