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View Full Version : Saarloos should go to L'ville



fearofpopvol1
04-26-2007, 12:14 AM
If that's not already in the works, it should be...

Kc61
04-26-2007, 12:18 AM
If that's not already in the works, it should be...

I disagree. The guy has never been a short reliever. He has no experience in that role and doesn't belong in it. Use him in longer middle inning stints. Or as fifth starter.

Also, tonight, he wasn't helped by the bloop that fell into right field. I thought that ball was catchable. The walk was bad, but getting hit by Pujois is not that unusual.

The Reds need some true late inning relievers. Put guys like Saarloos in their natural roles. That will help the pen.

11larkin11
04-26-2007, 12:19 AM
No. Saarloos to the rotation, where he should be in the first place.

paintmered
04-26-2007, 12:25 AM
Thread title edited. "Saarloos to L'ville" suggests something different.

volsfan
04-26-2007, 12:26 AM
The real thing we should talk about is why in the world Bronson was taken out after only 96 pitches. He was cruising along.

WVPacman
04-26-2007, 12:29 AM
Saarloos is not to blame here!! The person you should blame is Jerry Narron.He took out Arroyo out with just 90 pitches and people that is nonsense.These pitchers are pros that can throw up to 120 pitches.These managers like Narron who watches the pitch count needs to wake up and realise that these pitchers can throw more than 90 pitches.Thats just rediculious!!:thumbdown

HawaiianRedsFan
04-26-2007, 12:29 AM
Ok, this is my first post. But it will be one of stunning greatness.

As a Reds fan of over 30 years, I would like to state one thing. I am so sick and tired of the Reds bullpen blowing leads. Saarloos, Coffee, whomever. Get some relief help and the Reds will do well.

But then again, the Josh hamilton signing was AWESOME!

Aloha from a bitter old reds fan in hawaii..

fearofpopvol1
04-26-2007, 12:30 AM
Saarloos is not to blame here!! The person you should blame is Jerry Narron.He took out Arroyo out with just 90 pitches and people that is nonsense.These pitchers are pros that can throw up to 120 pitches.These managers like Narron who watches the pitch count needs to wake up and realise that these pitchers can throw more than 90 pitches.Thats just rediculious!!:thumbdown

Yeah, because Narron is the one that throws the ball!

HawaiianRedsFan
04-26-2007, 12:32 AM
Saarloos is not to blame here!! The person you should blame is Jerry Narron.He took out Arroyo out with just 90 pitches and people that is nonsense.These pitchers are pros that can throw up to 120 pitches.These managers like Narron who watches the pitch count needs to wake up and realise that these pitchers can throw more than 90 pitches.Thats just rediculious!!:thumbdown


PacMan, I complete agree. Narron did mess up. And unfortunately when he takes Arroyo out of the game he puts in our stellar bullpen.

You know somedays, I miss Randy Myers! And Danny what's his name.

Spring~Fields
04-26-2007, 12:36 AM
Saarloos is not to blame here!! The person you should blame is Jerry Narron.He took out Arroyo out with just 90 pitches and people that is nonsense.These pitchers are pros that can throw up to 120 pitches.These managers like Narron who watches the pitch count needs to wake up and realise that these pitchers can throw more than 90 pitches.Thats just rediculious!!:thumbdown

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Especially when has just seen this recently and knows that his bullpen is suspect.

WVPacman
04-26-2007, 12:36 AM
Yeah, because Narron is the one that throws the ball!


Narron is the one that makes the calls and everybody in their right mind knows that Arroyo could have pitched atleast another two innings.It was his mistake also to bring in Saarloos in a close game like that.I would atleast brung in a vetern pitcher.

fearofpopvol1
04-26-2007, 12:38 AM
Narron is the one that makes the calls and everybody in their right mind knows that Arroyo could have pitched atleast another two innings.It was his mistake also to bring in Saarloos in a close game like that.I would atleast brung in a vetern pitcher.

While I agree to an extent that Narron should be to blame and that it was a bad call, that does not excuse the fact that a major league reliever gives up 4 runs. Narron can't pitch for the team too.

flyer85
04-26-2007, 12:39 AM
No. Saarloos to the rotation, where he should be in the first place.definitely not. Saarloos is simply a below average pitcher no matter the role. Always has been and always will be.

jimbo
04-26-2007, 12:44 AM
Saarloos is not to blame here!! The person you should blame is Jerry Narron.He took out Arroyo out with just 90 pitches and people that is nonsense.These pitchers are pros that can throw up to 120 pitches.These managers like Narron who watches the pitch count needs to wake up and realise that these pitchers can throw more than 90 pitches.Thats just rediculious!!:thumbdown

Yeah, he leaves Arroyo in the game and he ends up giving up runs and the same people would be here b!tching because he left him in too long. :rolleyes:

WVPacman
04-26-2007, 12:47 AM
While I agree to an extent that Narron should be to blame and that it was a bad call, that does not excuse the fact that a major league reliever gives up 4 runs. Narron can't pitch for the team too.

Saarloos is more of a mid relief pitcher like for the 4th to 7th inings.pitching in the 8th with the score tied isn't really his role BUT I could be wrong.

WVPacman
04-26-2007, 12:49 AM
Yeah, he leaves Arroyo in the game and he ends up giving up runs and the same people would be here b!tching because he left him in too long. :rolleyes:


Not me jimbo,thats whats arong with todays managers!! They seem like they have to watch that pitch count for all the pitchers.All these players are pros and thats why they are out there to play and help their team win.They don't want to come out after 90 pitches,they exspect to stay out there and pitch 115-120.This is the major leagues not a old timers game.

Matt700wlw
04-26-2007, 12:52 AM
definitely not. Saarloos is simply a below average pitcher no matter the role. Always has been and always will be.

Actually he's a career .500 starter.

As a 5th starter, you'd take that.

Cedric
04-26-2007, 12:54 AM
Kirk Saarloos has no business on a major league roster. I don't have anything against the guy personally, he just doesn't have anything. When you struggle that bad in Oakland you don't have much of a chance in this league.

flyer85
04-26-2007, 12:55 AM
Actually he's a career .500 starter.

As a 5th starter, you'd take that.record means little, he's always pitched on good teams(Houston and Oakland) and had terrible BPIs. His K rate is off the charts low(under 4 last year) and he is a sinkeballer who has a high HR rate. Any success is basically due to good fortune.

jimbo
04-26-2007, 12:55 AM
Not me jimbo,thats whats arong with todays managers!! They seem like they have to watch that pitch count for all the pitchers.All these players are pros and thats why they are out there to play and help their team win.They don't want to come out after 90 pitches,they exspect to stay out there and pitch 115-120.This is the major leagues not a old timers game.

There was just a thread in here yesterday that talked about Prior and everyone was criticizing Dusty Baker and blaming him because he overused him. Now you hear the large majority here criticizing Narron for not using his starters longer. This isn't about the decision to leave Arroyo in or not, for most it's all about Narron and bashing his decisions no matter what he does. The guy could cure cancer and this board would be criticizing him for taking so long.

WVPacman
04-26-2007, 01:05 AM
Jimbo,I understand what you are getting at and yes it was probably the right move.I guess why im second guessing it is b/c I know how bad this bullpen is and if the move did'nt work out then thee reds would be hurting and it hurt us.

jimbo
04-26-2007, 01:07 AM
Jimbo,I understand what you are getting at and yes it was probably the right move.I guess why im second guessing it is b/c I know how bad this bullpen is and if the move did'nt work out then thee reds would be hurting and it did.

Any decision a baseball manager makes can easily be criticized or second guessed after the fact, but it doesn't mean it was a bad decision at the time.

Chip R
04-26-2007, 01:20 AM
There was just a thread in here yesterday that talked about Prior and everyone was criticizing Dusty Baker and blaming him because he overused him. Now you hear the large majority here criticizing Narron for not using his starters longer. This isn't about the decision to leave Arroyo in or not, for most it's all about Narron and bashing his decisions no matter what he does. The guy could cure cancer and this board would be criticizing him for taking so long.


The difference between Arroyo and Prior - and Wood for that matter is that Bronson is 30 years old and Prior isn't even 27 yet. So basically, Dusty was leaving these guys in there for 120-130 pitches when they were still in their early to mid 20s.

WVPacman
04-26-2007, 01:20 AM
Any decision a baseball manager makes can easily be criticized or second guessed after the fact, but it doesn't mean it was a bad decision at the time.


I just wished he would have thought things threw and maybe he did but imo he would have stayed in there b/c I don't trust the bullpen.Its over with thow so lets just win todays game.


What time does it start?? thanks

jimbo
04-26-2007, 01:53 AM
I just wished he would have thought things threw and maybe he did but imo he would have stayed in there b/c I don't trust the bullpen.Its over with thow so lets just win todays game.


It's the 8th inning of a tie ballgame and your pitcher is up first. To me, it makes all the sense in the world to pinch-hit. I realize the bullpen hasn't been the greatest, but you can't base every decision on that. Eventually you have to show confidence in them.

IMO, the criticism for bringing in Sarloos is much more warranted than the decision to pinch-hit for Arroyo.

jimbo
04-26-2007, 01:57 AM
The difference between Arroyo and Prior - and Wood for that matter is that Bronson is 30 years old and Prior isn't even 27 yet. So basically, Dusty was leaving these guys in there for 120-130 pitches when they were still in their early to mid 20s.

Very true, and I agree with that assessment. I was just trying to show the level of the "damned if he does damned if he doesn't" mentality towards Narron that is demonstrated here at times. I remember a few weeks ago, can't remember exactly what game, when Narron left Arroyo in late in the game and he end up giving up the go-ahead runs. People then were criticizing Narron for leaving him too long.

M2
04-26-2007, 02:23 AM
Saarloos is more of a mid relief pitcher like for the 4th to 7th inings.pitching in the 8th with the score tied isn't really his role BUT I could be wrong.

To use a boxing analogy, he's a rope-a-dope pitcher. That's fine when you're trying to wear down your opponent early in the game, but he lacks the knockout power you need later in the game.

He's completely miscast in his current role.

He might fail as a 5h starter/long reliever too, but at least that would be the spot where he might succeed.

mth123
04-26-2007, 06:50 AM
I completely agree with Flyer and Cedric. Practically no Ks, too many walks and HR Machine. I had hope that as a relief pitcher (when he was put there at the beginning of the season) he'd do better because his K rate was higher historically out of the pen, but that was a mirage and I was wrong about that.

When all were hailing the Saarloos acquisition over the offseason, some stated that they'd rather have kept Shafer (who has been pretty bad so far this year) and that Saarloos shouldn't make the team given the numbers in the pen mix. When Burton, Bray, Guardado etc. start coming back, he should go instead of some others. I'd rather have Salmon right now, but Saarloos' $1.2 Million says we're stuck with him this year. He isn't a good pitcher by any measure that doesn't involve good fortune. Last night fortune went against him on a blooper to RF and that set up a situation for him to fail. He'd be a good guy to shop to some fool team in need of a starter in exchange for a RH bat for the bench.

The main point in Saarloos favor (so say his supporters) is his high rate of ground balls. Looking closer though, those ground balls mean nothing when the HR rate is high and the K Rate is low. In fact, ground balls are more likley to become hits than fly balls. Mix in a few walks (which Saarloos gives up way too frequently given his profile) with those hits and if you don't strike anybody out and give up too many HR, that's a bad bad mix.

Sorry for the rant, but I thought Saarloos was a bad idea from the start. I don't put this on Narron. IMO this one is on WK for making Saarloos the primary pitching acquisition over the offseason. This team needed a quality guy instead of wasting resources on a pen full of mediocrity.

sonny
04-26-2007, 07:35 AM
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54154

We all pretty much thought it was a good signing at the time.

mth123
04-26-2007, 08:04 AM
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54154

We all pretty much thought it was a good signing at the time.

Not me. JoJo was against it. Spitball said he wasn't impressed and WVRedsfan questioned it. Johnny Footstool thought that he was no help. TRF didn't like it. Cyclone pointed out Saarloos flaws too.

Read the thread you just linked.

Marge'sMullet
04-26-2007, 08:56 AM
Yeah, he leaves Arroyo in the game and he ends up giving up runs and the same people would be here b!tching because he left him in too long. :rolleyes:

NOT ME.

I was thinking when he did it that it was atleast one inning to early. This was a classic example of losing a game late because of the manager. I know that they needed a run, but Arroyo can go the distance just about every game.

I think with Arroyo's delivery he has very little strain on his body. Even though he does pitch a lot of breaking ball it seems almost effortless.

bucksfan2
04-26-2007, 09:15 AM
I dont mind taking Arroyo out of the game. He was due to lead off the top of the 8th in a tie game. I dont think I would have used Saarloos in that situation either. I would have gone with Santos and then Weathers. Its just unfortuante that the hit that started the inning was a blooper by that damn Eckstein.

UC_Ken
04-26-2007, 09:32 AM
As Welsh said last night he is a sinkerball pitcher. Those guys need regular work because when their arm is srong their pitches lose sink. He shouldn't be pitching rested in the eigth inning of a tie game. If our bullpen hadn't been so awful this year he wouldn't be.

With his ground ball tendencies I think he would be a terrific fifth starter. Despite being the most generous HR park in the league GAPB really rewards pitchers who get batters to put the ball on the ground.

FutureRedsGM
04-26-2007, 09:59 AM
Pujols = Greatest Hitter of This Decade

You can't murder Sarloos becuase he was beaten by a great hitter.

I understand pulling Bronson. He was due to lead off the 8th inning in a 1-1 game. The Reds needed offense. The only thing that Narron did that I would even second guess is not going in with Santos who is the hottest hand in the bullpen right now.

Sea Ray
04-26-2007, 10:00 AM
There was just a thread in here yesterday that talked about Prior and everyone was criticizing Dusty Baker and blaming him because he overused him. Now you hear the large majority here criticizing Narron for not using his starters longer. This isn't about the decision to leave Arroyo in or not, for most it's all about Narron and bashing his decisions no matter what he does. The guy could cure cancer and this board would be criticizing him for taking so long.

I agree. You can't blame Narron for not "covering up" this bullpen. There's only so much he can do. If your starter gives you 7 strong innings, the bullpen needs to do its job. If Saarloos can't keep from giving up 4 runs in that situation how is that Narron's fault?

Chip R
04-26-2007, 10:02 AM
It's the 8th inning of a tie ballgame and your pitcher is up first. To me, it makes all the sense in the world to pinch-hit. I realize the bullpen hasn't been the greatest, but you can't base every decision on that. Eventually you have to show confidence in them.

IMO, the criticism for bringing in Sarloos is much more warranted than the decision to pinch-hit for Arroyo.


It really didn't matter if he left Arroyo in or not, the bullpen was eventually going to blow the game.

membengal
04-26-2007, 10:29 AM
Eckstein hit a perfectly placed bloop to RF to start that inning. Sometimes, you just can't catch a break. I am not sure Eckstein's hit would have broken a pane of glass. Perhaps you can quibble that Narron should have gone to a lefty against Duncan, but, I certainly don't fault him for sticking with Saarloos.

It is what it is.

REDREAD
04-26-2007, 01:33 PM
Sarloos' value to this team (if they are hellbent on keeping Milton in the rotation) is a long reliever. All the other guys in the pen are strictly 1-2 inning guys.

The value of Sarloos is to put him in the 4th or 5th inning and let him pitch until the 8th, instead of using 4 relievers for 4 innings. Unfortunately, Jerry hasn't figured that out yet.

Use Sarloos as a long man, and the rest of the pen stays fresh. I don't know if that will make a huge difference, but we all know that Narron rides the hot bullpen hand until that pitcher becomes too tired to be effective.

Cedric
04-26-2007, 01:52 PM
I wouldn't use Saarloos. He has no confidence in his stuff and he nibbles. Rightfully so considering his stuff and his career numbers.

The sooner he is off the roster the better, IMO.

jimbo
04-26-2007, 02:00 PM
It really didn't matter if he left Arroyo in or not, the bullpen was eventually going to blow the game.

So you're saying the Reds are going to lose every game where the starter does not pitch a complete game? I guess we should just quit watching, the season is over.

Mitri
04-26-2007, 02:01 PM
I'm really disappointed in the way this team has used Sarloos so far this season. I had high hopes he'd be the 5th starter or a solid long reliever. Looking at his career stats, it's obvious he has trouble in his first 15-25 pitches and then settles down into his comfort zone. Until he's used in his proper role we'll never know what he can bring to this team.

Chip R
04-26-2007, 02:53 PM
So you're saying the Reds are going to lose every game where the starter does not pitch a complete game? I guess we should just quit watching, the season is over.


Not every game. Just the close ones.

registerthis
04-26-2007, 03:10 PM
Pujols = Greatest Hitter of This Decade

You can't murder Sarloos becuase he was beaten by a great hitter.


Can Sarloos be blamed for giving up a hit and a walk to the batter immediately preceeding Pujols?

Come one, make all the excuses you want, Sarloos was garbage last night. His job is to get hitters out. He failed miserably.

TC81190
04-26-2007, 05:12 PM
Saarloos was bad last night. But according to everyone back a few weeks ago during opening week, he was filthy, and he was what we need in the back of the pen.

jimbo
04-26-2007, 05:18 PM
Saarloos was bad last night. But according to everyone back a few weeks ago during opening week, he was filthy, and he was what we need in the back of the pen.

I think it just shows how fickle fans can be.

PuffyPig
04-26-2007, 09:11 PM
And unfortunately when he takes Arroyo out of the game he puts in our stellar bullpen.



Other than our bullpen, who should he have brought in?

HUHUH
04-26-2007, 10:22 PM
Saarloos is more of a mid relief pitcher like for the 4th to 7th inings.pitching in the 8th with the score tied isn't really his role BUT I could be wrong.

I'm so sick of this complaining about "roles" in the bullpen. Remember the Nasty Boys? They'd pitch anytime, for any length. And McKeon used his bullpen guys for sometimes 2-3 innings at a time. Effectively! Sarloos can only throw in innings 4-7? He can't pitch in the 8th? What a bunch of hogwash. What difference does it make what inning it is? If a pitcher can pitch, he should be able to get guys out; in the 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, ......inning.

And don't get me started on the "closer". As it stands, its the guy who has enough balls to cough up the game in the 9th and not go crying home to mommy. Give me a freakin break. If you can pitch, what difference does it make what inning it is?

Oh yeah, I forgot: guys like to know what their ROLES are.

Platooning. Double switches. Left-right matchups. Bullpen nonsense.... the game is degenerating.

Dracodave
04-26-2007, 10:42 PM
Sarloos can only throw in innings 4-7? He can't pitch in the 8th? What a bunch of hogwash. What the $#^%^# difference does it make what inning it is?

It's called mentality, skill set and talent. Saarloss doesn't have any of the three "tools" needed to be a setup man, 2-4 starter or closer. Theres reason why players with "do or die" mentalities (See, Wagner, Rivera, K-Rod) do so well as closer.

The mentality of being able to shake off a hit, a run etc, and just keep pitching. Thats something that Saarloss and over half of our bullpen lacks. That mentality, that "oh well runner on first; big deal" train of thought, thats what this team needs. Someone who can just light it up for a inning or two when they game matters.

NYM found that in Sanchez, NYY found that in Proctor, HOU found it in Wheeler, and the list goes on.

Always Red
04-26-2007, 10:57 PM
I hate to say this, because I do like Saarloos and want him to do well.

But watching him pitch, nibbling, sinking, constantly trying to fool, never challenging, never throwing to the inside half of the plate, reminds me of .....gulp.....Danny Graves, circa 2005.:(

WVPacman
04-27-2007, 12:19 AM
I'm so sick of this #$@%& about "roles" in the bullpen. Remember the Nasty Boys? They'd pitch anytime, for any length. And McKeon used his bullpen guys for sometimes 2-3 innings at a time. Effectively! Sarloos can only throw in innings 4-7? He can't pitch in the 8th? What a bunch of hogwash. What the $#^%^# difference does it make what inning it is? If a pitcher can pitch, he should be able to get guys out; in the 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, ......inning.

And don't get me started on the "closer". As it stands, its the guy who has enough balls to cough up the game in the 9th and not go crying home to mommy. Give me a freakin break. If you can pitch, what the $##%^ difference does it make what inning it is?

Oh yeah, I forgot: guys like to know what their ROLES are. Bull#$#$.

Platooning. Double switches. Left-right matchups. Bullpen nonsense.... the game is degenerating.


Come on man,I don't care if you disagree with me but quit cursing on the board.They are probably young kids that like the reds that are on here plus they are probably christians also on here.

TC81190
04-27-2007, 12:32 AM
Come on man,I don't care if you disagree with me but quit cursing on the board.They are probably young kids that like the reds that are on here plus they are probably christians also on here.

I dont mean to sound mean, because I like you alot Pacman, but this board is ridiculous about that. Can't say the "a-word". I'm 1000% sure that previously mentioned word has been heard by any child that may be on this board, of which I have never seen I might add, and used by 99.99999999999% of board users here.

jmac
04-27-2007, 12:34 AM
Come on man,I don't care if you disagree with me but quit cursing on the board.They are probably young kids that like the reds that are on here plus they are probably christians also on here.

:thumbup:

WVPacman
04-27-2007, 12:39 AM
I dont mean to sound mean, because I like you alot Pacman, but this board is ridiculous about that. Can't say the "a-word". I'm 1000% sure that previously mentioned word has been heard by any child that may be on this board, of which I have never seen I might add, and used by 99.99999999999% of board users here.


Well the only reason I brung it up is b/c when I joined this site I was told to quit cursing and I got Rep points took off me.I don't think alot of people want to read messages with nothing but curse words in them.I was just giving this guy a heads up and I don't want him to lose no points like I did.

TC81190
04-27-2007, 12:40 AM
Well the only reason I brung it up is b/c when I joined this site I was told to quit cursing and I got Rep points took off me.I don't think alot of people want to read messages with nothing but curse words in them.I was just giving this guy a heads up and I don't want him to lose no points like I did.


I see what you mean. The atmosphere of the board here has been.....declining.

WVPacman
04-27-2007, 12:47 AM
I see what you mean. The atmosphere of the board here has been.....declining.


The atmosphere will change after we get on this big winning streak!!
;)

TC81190
04-27-2007, 12:49 AM
The atmosphere will change after we get on this big winning streak!!
;)

We'll be WS bound. :D

WVPacman
04-27-2007, 12:55 AM
We'll be WS bound. :D



Exactly,this board would be feeled up with so much love and kindess that we would'nt be able to read the posts.
:laugh:

jimbo
04-27-2007, 01:06 AM
I'm so sick of this #$@%& about "roles" in the bullpen. Remember the Nasty Boys? They'd pitch anytime, for any length.

In honor of your name, huh? I think you are way off. The Nasty Boys had very established roles in the bullpen. Meyers was the closer, and Dibble and Charlton were the main late inning setup guys. The Nasty Boys are the prime example of having roles in the bullpen. :bang:

AmarilloRed
04-27-2007, 01:38 AM
He did really well in the rotation in spring training. Maybe he is not suited for the bullpen.

fearofpopvol1
05-13-2007, 11:36 PM
I still stand by this

flyer85
05-13-2007, 11:37 PM
Saarloos to the rotation, where he should be in the first place.Saarloos to Oakland, where he should have stayed in the first place.

Aronchis
05-13-2007, 11:48 PM
Saarloos was brought in to replace Belisle who was being moved to the rotation. I am pretty sure even with that "competition" in ST, that is what the plan was.

He doesn't have the stamina or the pitches to pitch a full game. He has been good in spurts this year, but has had 2 real stinkers mixed in.

fearofpopvol1
05-14-2007, 02:32 AM
anyone know if he has options?

bucksfan2
05-14-2007, 10:40 AM
How much of his problems are whether he is being used in the right situations. You dont hit and run with dunn when he has 2 strikes on him. Saarloos should be used in long relief to go more than one inning. The guy has been a starter in his career and has a lot of movement on his pitches. It looks like he struggles to find his command. So why bring him in in a pressure situation where he needs to throw strikes right off the bat?

Always Red
05-14-2007, 11:34 AM
I hate to say this, but Saarloos reminds me of....Danny Graves, because his best pitch is a ball, which requires the hitter to swing at a pitch out of the zone. Patient hitters will just wait for a strike.

Slyder
05-14-2007, 12:45 PM
PacMan, I complete agree. Narron did mess up. And unfortunately when he takes Arroyo out of the game he puts in our stellar bullpen.

You know somedays, I miss Randy Myers! And Danny what's his name.

Danny Jackson :D. Yep I miss him to LoL.

bounty37h
05-14-2007, 12:48 PM
Ok, this is my first post. But it will be one of stunning greatness.

As a Reds fan of over 30 years, I would like to state one thing. I am so sick and tired of the Reds bullpen blowing leads. Saarloos, Coffee, whomever. Get some relief help and the Reds will do well.

But then again, the Josh hamilton signing was AWESOME!

Aloha from a bitter old reds fan in hawaii..

You got 14 rep points for this ?!?!?!?! ;) hehehe.

bounty37h
05-14-2007, 12:51 PM
definitely not. Saarloos is simply a below average pitcher no matter the role. Always has been and always will be.

I talked to a die-hard A's fan when we picked up Saarloos, as I didnt know anything of him. This guy said we would love him if he is in our 5 man, but he prob wouldnt be much out of the pen, said he is just more comfortable and styles better as a starter. He felt the A's screwed him up when they sent him to the pen after only one year in the rotation.

bounty37h
05-14-2007, 12:54 PM
I completely agree with Flyer and Cedric. Practically no Ks, too many walks and HR Machine. I had hope that as a relief pitcher (when he was put there at the beginning of the season) he'd do better because his K rate was higher historically out of the pen, but that was a mirage and I was wrong about that.

When all were hailing the Saarloos acquisition over the offseason, some stated that they'd rather have kept Shafer (who has been pretty bad so far this year) and that Saarloos shouldn't make the team given the numbers in the pen mix. When Burton, Bray, Guardado etc. start coming back, he should go instead of some others. I'd rather have Salmon right now, but Saarloos' $1.2 Million says we're stuck with him this year. He isn't a good pitcher by any measure that doesn't involve good fortune. Last night fortune went against him on a blooper to RF and that set up a situation for him to fail. He'd be a good guy to shop to some fool team in need of a starter in exchange for a RH bat for the bench.

The main point in Saarloos favor (so say his supporters) is his high rate of ground balls. Looking closer though, those ground balls mean nothing when the HR rate is high and the K Rate is low. In fact, ground balls are more likley to become hits than fly balls. Mix in a few walks (which Saarloos gives up way too frequently given his profile) with those hits and if you don't strike anybody out and give up too many HR, that's a bad bad mix.

Sorry for the rant, but I thought Saarloos was a bad idea from the start. I don't put this on Narron. IMO this one is on WK for making Saarloos the primary pitching acquisition over the offseason. This team needed a quality guy instead of wasting resources on a pen full of mediocrity.

Is he a home run pitcher, or a ground ball pitcher, I am confused....

bounty37h
05-14-2007, 12:59 PM
Come on man,I don't care if you disagree with me but quit cursing on the board.They are probably young kids that like the reds that are on here plus they are probably christians also on here.

And these great words brought to you by PacMan :) Teasin man, just teasin :)

mth123
05-14-2007, 09:59 PM
Is he a home run pitcher, or a ground ball pitcher, I am confused....

Always Red had it right. He's a pitcher with lots of movement and his ball breaks down and out of the zone. If he can get a fool to chase he gets ground balls. When they lay-off he falls behind in the count which leads to a couple of things: 1. Too many walks for his stuff, 2. Fat ones that go a long way. His HR Rate in 2006 1.41 per nine innings. That came in Oakland, a park that takes HRs away as opposed to GABP which helps hitters get HR.

I'm not a believer that the whole Fly Ball/Ground Ball thing is a primary consideration. As a rule the Reds need GB guys, but if they walk a lot of guys and give up a lot of HR it kind of defeats the purpose. Actually, with that profile, GB may be worse because more GB go for hits than fly balls.

Saarloos has actually been better than I expected so far. His K Rate has been stronger in the pen and he probably isn't the first guy to be cut, but I think he's a time bomb and yesterday was a good example. He depends on balls in play for outs and when the ball doesn't bounce his way he can't really get the K when he needs it and he gives up a lot of runs quickly. Throw in a few HRs in those situations and the ERA goes up fast.

Kingspoint
05-15-2007, 04:19 AM
If Saarloos should go anywhere it's to the starting rotation.

Kingspoint
05-15-2007, 04:22 AM
I talked to a die-hard A's fan when we picked up Saarloos, as I didnt know anything of him. This guy said we would love him if he is in our 5 man, but he prob wouldnt be much out of the pen, said he is just more comfortable and styles better as a starter. He felt the A's screwed him up when they sent him to the pen after only one year in the rotation.

Agree wholeheartedly, and he's proven it throughout his short career. He'll get his chance to start.

Harang needs to get his act together. We're not going to continue to score 7+ runs every time he starts. We haven't even scored close to 7 runs so far on this trip in four games.

Degenerate39
05-15-2007, 02:46 PM
You got 14 rep points for this ?!?!?!?! ;) hehehe.

You start out with 10

bounty37h
05-15-2007, 03:40 PM
^wow, so I only have 17 points since I started here, dang, I must really suck :)