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View Full Version : thought on a position change for Edwin...



mroby85
04-26-2007, 11:05 PM
i know he's slumping now, and there are some thoughts of him even getting sent down, but we all know he's a better hitter than what he's showing right now, and he's gonna have to come out of that soon, but anyways, here was my thought. If you could move Edwin to first base, which really isn't that much of a difference than 3rd, and is really an easier position, which might take his mind off of the field so much to where he could concentrate on hitting a little more, but the main reason for the change would be the ability to get freel in at third, this way you could get, hamilton, griffey, dunn, edwin , and freel in the lineup all at the same time, and im not sure what hattebergs trade value would be, but you could possibly get a decent reliever out of him, and still have conine off the bench. worst case scenario is you have 2 good pinch hitters one from each side of the plate, if hatteberg's value isn't up, but i imagine you could get a middle of the road reliever for him. just a thought, whata you guys think?

George Anderson
04-26-2007, 11:09 PM
. If you could move Edwin to first base, which really isn't that much of a difference than 3rd, and is really an easier position, which might take his mind off of the field so much to where he could concentrate on hitting a little more

If you are going to move EE then it needs to be done in Spring Training. Moving him during the season to a new position isnt going to help take his mind off of his fielding especially considering he has never played that position before.

Ron Madden
04-26-2007, 11:12 PM
Leave Edwin alone. He'll be OK.

AmarilloRed
04-27-2007, 12:44 AM
Who would you replace him with? We have no one else who can replace him on the club or at AAA that I know of.

mroby85
04-27-2007, 01:05 AM
Who would you replace him with? We have no one else who can replace him on the club or at AAA that I know of.

the move would just move ryan freel into the starting lineup to where he would play third. that way you wouldn't have to rotate the 4, they would all be playing at the same time.

Razor Shines
04-27-2007, 01:07 AM
the move would just move ryan freel into the starting lineup to where he would play third. that way you wouldn't have to rotate the 4, they would all be playing at the same time.

If you think EE's defense is bad just wait till you see 140 more games of Freel there.

Screwball
04-27-2007, 01:10 AM
the move would just move ryan freel into the starting lineup to where he would play third. that way you wouldn't have to rotate the 4, they would all be playing at the same time.

And so we then pay Hat and Co9 to ride the pine?

mroby85
04-27-2007, 01:13 AM
And so we then pay Hat and Co9 to ride the pine?

im not interested in what we're paying guys, im interested in the best 9 guys being on the field. if hatteberg and conine are better, than i think they should play, but money shouldn't even factor into it, which i believe freel makes more than they do.

mroby85
04-27-2007, 01:14 AM
And so we then pay Hat and Co9 to ride the pine?

im not interested in what we're paying guys, im interested in the best 9 guys being on the field. if hatteberg and conine are better, than i think they should play, but money shouldn't even factor into it, which i believe freel makes more than they do anyways, if you do want to look at it from that perspective. it's also still important to have good pinch hitters.

KronoRed
04-27-2007, 01:20 AM
Leave Edwin alone. He'll be OK.

The Truth.

AmarilloRed
04-27-2007, 01:21 AM
I dont think Freel could stay healthy enough to play 140 games at third. Like it or not, I see no alternative to Edwin at third, unless a trade is made.

mroby85
04-27-2007, 01:22 AM
I dont think Freel could stay healthy enough to play 140 games at third. Like it or not, I see no alternative to Edwin at third, unless a trade is made.


i definately think you make a point there, im not saying i think this should be done, or not be done, i just think its something to think about.

Screwball
04-27-2007, 01:39 AM
im not interested in what we're paying guys, im interested in the best 9 guys being on the field. if hatteberg and conine are better, than i think they should play, but money shouldn't even factor into it, which i believe freel makes more than they do.

So you don't think guys with the lines of .270/.308/.541/.849 (Co9) and .296/.367/.444/.811 (Hatteberg) don't deserve playing time because they're not one of the best 9 on the field? Not only that, but you want to substitute EE's .182/.270/.197/.467 in place of them because he is currently one of the best 9? I don't think you quite thought that one through.

Doro
04-27-2007, 01:48 AM
...... people bring this type of stuff up all the time. EE is not thinking at all when he steps to the plate about playing 3B. Hes playing a GOOD 3B at the moment anyways. This is the type of crap talk radio is for. I'm getting tired of this board, I came here looking for more.

mroby85
04-27-2007, 02:03 AM
So you don't think guys with the lines of .270/.308/.541/.849 (Co9) and .296/.367/.444/.811 (Hatteberg) don't deserve playing time because they're not one of the best 9 on the field? Not only that, but you want to substitute EE's .182/.270/.197/.467 in place of them because he is currently one of the best 9? I don't think you quite thought that one through.


first of all, if you're going to compare stats, you should compare them all from the same season. not to mention the beginning of this season isn't a fair sample size.

if you look at last year
edwin hit 15 hr's and drove in 72 runs, which was 21 more rbi's than and 2 more hr's than hatteberg, in 50 less at bats. Edwin is in a slump, it happens.
conine also only had 100 at bats one year ago, he may have hit 270 like you said, but he had 1 home run and 17 rbi's.

oneupper
04-27-2007, 08:09 AM
How do guys with minus 69 rep start threads or even post?

Mods?

Screwball
04-27-2007, 08:19 AM
first of all, if you're going to compare stats, you should compare them all from the same season. not to mention the beginning of this season isn't a fair sample size.

if you look at last year
edwin hit 15 hr's and drove in 72 runs, which was 21 more rbi's than and 2 more hr's than hatteberg, in 50 less at bats. Edwin is in a slump, it happens.
conine also only had 100 at bats one year ago, he may have hit 270 like you said, but he had 1 home run and 17 rbi's.

Those are stats for this year.

So now all decisions this year have to be based solely on last year's numbers? Current slumps or production should be ignored because of what happened last year? Gimme a break, man. EE's in a nasty slump right now, and changing his position is the last thing Narron should do, especially to a spot where the guys playing the position have been one of the few bright spots the offense has had so far.

Narron needs to keep running EE out to 3rd everyday and allow him to hit out of his slump. Moving him to 1st is a panic move that's wrong on so many different levels, if Narron actually did it he should be fired on the spot.

deltachi8
04-27-2007, 09:03 AM
It's April, leave EE alone.



It's April.

mroby85
04-27-2007, 11:19 AM
i think my point has been misunderstood. the point of moving him is not because of his hitting, its to get freel in the lineup with the other 3. and yes, i do believe you have to look at someones track record rather instead of the first few weeks of a season.

bucksfan2
04-27-2007, 11:23 AM
i think my point has been misunderstood. the point of moving him is not because of his hitting, its to get freel in the lineup with the other 3. and yes, i do believe you have to look at someones track record rather instead of the first few weeks of a season.

1st base isn't the most difficult position to play but isn't exactly the easiest. Look at the Hatty play this past series and you can see that bad footwork can end bad. Freel at 3b would be a disaster if you ask me. He just doesn't have the arm required, doesn't play good enough defense there, and is an outfielder. Maybe about once every other week play him at 3rd to get him in the lineup and get Edwin a rest but other than that Freel at 3b too often is a bad thing.

Degenerate39
04-27-2007, 11:53 AM
Where could you move Edwin? 1st base? Then what are you going to do with Joey Votto when he comes up? There's no places in the outfield for him to play. He can't play up the middle and he can't catch. I guess that's all the positions. He stays where he is.

mroby85
04-27-2007, 11:56 AM
Where could you move Edwin? 1st base? Then what are you going to do with Joey Votto when he comes up? There's no places in the outfield for him to play. He can't play up the middle and he can't catch. I guess that's all the positions. He stays where he is.

1st base is what was discussed throughout the whole thread. You may be right about not moving edwin, but should you really not put your best lineup on the field right now, for what might be in the future? what if they did this with chad mottola and eric owens. i'm not saying votto won't be good, but i think i would try to put the best lineup on the field as of right now.

Degenerate39
04-27-2007, 12:11 PM
1st base is what was discussed throughout the whole thread. You may be right about not moving edwin, but should you really not put your best lineup on the field right now, for what might be in the future? what if they did this with chad mottola and eric owens. i'm not saying votto won't be good, but i think i would try to put the best lineup on the field as of right now.

So you want to take Edwin out of his environment so we can have Freel at 3rd base? Freel played two games at third base this year and had two errors already. Freel is an outfielder and a below average infielder. And when Votto comes up they'd have to move Edwin BACK to 3rd base? Out of his new environment? No thanks.

UK Reds Fan
04-27-2007, 12:18 PM
...... people bring this type of stuff up all the time. EE is not thinking at all when he steps to the plate about playing 3B. Hes playing a GOOD 3B at the moment anyways. This is the type of crap talk radio is for. I'm getting tired of this board, I came here looking for more.

I would tend to agree with that sentiment...EE is playing a fine 3rd base defensively, offense is the issue of the moment. I don't think playing 3rd is causing any issues while he is batting. So why would we move EE to 1st, when our 1b platoon is hitting fine?

Leave him be and let him play thru it. Freel is fine getting his starts at OF, 2b and 3b occasionally. If EE bombs out this year, I don't see this team as getting anything done this year and we'll re-evaluate in the offseason.

RedsManRick
04-27-2007, 12:39 PM
Given EE 150 starts and 500 AB at 3B and stop jerking him around. We're evaluating him on such small samples. Bottom line is that his defensive issues are not limitations of his but a lack of refinement in his footwork and poor decision making. It's not that he can't play 3B well. It's that he's making mistakes. Yes, at some point you have to fix those mistakes, but moving him down the defensive spectrum is just stupid. He's an athletic guy and the best all-around option at 3B this team has.

How has Freel done over there defensively? Do you want Castro getting 500 AB? Who else is a better internal option next year and beyond? Why block Votto at 1B? Isn't the 1B platoon actually pretty productive?

mroby85
04-27-2007, 12:49 PM
no I wouldn't play castro, i would play freel, i didn't even mention castro. Edwin's defense is not what im questioning. i'm talking about getting the most productive hitters in the lineup, and thats all i was talking about. i did say that edwin's defensive responsibilities may be lesser at first, because its an easier position to play.

AmarilloRed
04-27-2007, 01:47 PM
If you play Freel 150 games at third, get ready for 40 errors. Edwin is a young player, and he will be in slumps like any other player. He is learning to play defense, and unless he hits.100 for the season, he should be the starting third baseman.

RedsManRick
04-27-2007, 02:54 PM
no I wouldn't play castro, i would play freel, i didn't even mention castro. Edwin's defense is not what im questioning. i'm talking about getting the most productive hitters in the lineup, and thats all i was talking about. i did say that edwin's defensive responsibilities may be lesser at first, because its an easier position to play.

I understand your point and simply respond "sample size". Slumping hitters don't get better by sitting on the bench and thinking about it. If Free was hitting .300/.400/.425 I would cede the point. But he's hitting .271/.354/.343. Given that he costs more runs than he creates on the basepaths, I'm not going to screw with EE's development for that improvement. EE hit in the minors and hit .276/.359/.473 in 400 at bats last year at 23 years old. That doesn't happen by mistake. He needs ABs, not time watching Ryan Freel.

Further, the 1B platoon has been quite productive. So I'm not exactly sure what position he'd take that would improve the offense.

Degenerate39
04-27-2007, 05:51 PM
no I wouldn't play castro, i would play freel, i didn't even mention castro. Edwin's defense is not what im questioning. i'm talking about getting the most productive hitters in the lineup, and thats all i was talking about. i did say that edwin's defensive responsibilities may be lesser at first, because its an easier position to play.

So Hatte and Conine aren't productive right now?

Degenerate39
04-30-2007, 06:50 PM
So much for moving Edwin to 1st base to get him out of his slump.

mroby85
04-30-2007, 09:32 PM
it wasn't to get him out of his slump. it was to get freel in the lineup, and hit leadoff.

paintmered
04-30-2007, 09:38 PM
im not interested in what we're paying guys, im interested in the best 9 guys being on the field. if hatteberg and conine are better, than i think they should play, but money shouldn't even factor into it, which i believe freel makes more than they do.

Even so, if you move Edwin to first base, you cut his value by probably 1/3. The long term goal of any front office should be to maximize each player's relative value. It's much easier to find a first baseman with pop than a third baseman with pop.

The only other options for third base are Castro (no stick, no range) and Freel (who is slightly better than Dmitri Young defensively at third). EE has the potential to be a stud and an annual all-star at third base. Just because he isn't at the age of 23 is no reason to panic. Stick with him; show some confidence in him. He will respond in time.

mroby85
04-30-2007, 11:56 PM
yea, this thread really went a lot further than i expected it to go honestly, it was just an idea i threw out there, im not even sure if it is something that i would do, so i can't really argue with any conviction about it to be honest. after seeing some of your reasoning, you guys are probably right. the only aspect i was really looking at when making the post was getting more productive bats in the lineup due to the recent slumping, which obviously isn't the only aspect of the game.

AmarilloRed
05-01-2007, 12:20 AM
If we had someone to take over for Edwin, it could be done. As of now, he is our only possibilty for third base.