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acredsfan
04-27-2007, 06:47 PM
Per C. Trent, for two PTBNL and cash.

Matt700wlw
04-27-2007, 06:47 PM
Whoa!

Well, I guess that's that.

oneupper
04-27-2007, 06:48 PM
Crud

guttle11
04-27-2007, 06:48 PM
Uh-oh. This is now a hard hat zone.

Degenerate39
04-27-2007, 06:49 PM
:cry:

Chip R
04-27-2007, 06:49 PM
I didn't think you could trade a guy when he was on the DL. :confused:

Matt700wlw
04-27-2007, 06:50 PM
I didn't think you could trade a guy when he was on the DL. :confused:

They had to get permission from BUUUUUUUUUUUD.

flyer85
04-27-2007, 06:51 PM
:dunno:

Maybe one is Suzuki. :D

I wonder if Burton plays into this at all?

RFS62
04-27-2007, 06:51 PM
Wow.

Who did we get, Jack Bauer?

Ron Madden
04-27-2007, 06:52 PM
I didn't think you could trade a guy when he was on the DL. :confused:

That's what I thought too Chip.

Well at least Deno might have a chance in Oakland.

TC81190
04-27-2007, 06:52 PM
That's stupid. :(

Patrick Bateman
04-27-2007, 06:52 PM
The PTBNL better be of some value, or this is not a very smart move.

Maybe one of their 2 catching prospetcs? Suzuki or Powell? Powell more likely.

oneupper
04-27-2007, 06:52 PM
Deno is not going to have ANY trouble cracking the A's outfield.

Smart move by Billy Beane.

Hope the return isn't worthless junk.

Degenerate39
04-27-2007, 06:53 PM
Wow.

Who did we get, Jack Bauer?

http://www.broomeman.com/images/jack_bauer.jpg

I wonder if he can pitch

acredsfan
04-27-2007, 06:53 PM
Could one of them not have been Burton? That would have made the most sense to me.

pedro
04-27-2007, 06:53 PM
I really wonder what the motivation to do this now is? Seems odd.

WMR
04-27-2007, 06:53 PM
Dumb de dumb dumb dumbbbbbbbbbbb

Unless those are some hella talented PTBNLs.... :bang:

pedro
04-27-2007, 06:54 PM
Could one of them not have been Burton? That would have made the most sense to me.

perhaps. I really don't know the rules around all this stuff.

does make sense though.

acredsfan
04-27-2007, 06:55 PM
Per John Fay:


Trade: Denorfia to Oakland for 2 PTBNLs

The Reds traded outfielder Chris Denorfia to Oakland for two players to be named later and cash. Denorfia, the 27-year-old outfielder, is coming off Tommy John surgery and isn't expected to play until October.

I'm told another move may be comingThe suspense is killing me.

Fil3232
04-27-2007, 06:55 PM
Could one of them not have been Burton? That would have made the most sense to me.

That was my first thought as well. He can only stay on his rehab stint for so long. Hopefully Krivsky is able to get another quality PTBNL as well.

Matt700wlw
04-27-2007, 06:56 PM
Rheal Cormier to anyone for anything.

edabbs44
04-27-2007, 06:56 PM
:hyperventilate:

flyer85
04-27-2007, 06:57 PM
Powell more likely.just what is needed to go with Javy, a legit 300 pounder.

Ron Madden
04-27-2007, 06:58 PM
Could be another desperate attempt to improve the Bullpen.

Cyclone792
04-27-2007, 06:58 PM
Hmmm ... let's see ... staying positive ...

Outstanding deal for Billy Beane and the Oakland Athletics. Beane undoubtedly knows Denorfia's value, and he likely feels confident that Denorfia will be able to bounce back rather well from his arm injury this spring. It's really no surprise to me that Beane would acquire a guy capable of putting up a .350+ on-base percentage while also playing a superb defensive center field.

As for the Reds, well ... what can be said?

edabbs44
04-27-2007, 06:58 PM
Per John Fay:

The suspense is killing me.

With WK's track record, it's gonna be like:

"Reds sign Jesse Orosco to a 2 year, $4 million dollar contract with a team option for the third year."

flyer85
04-27-2007, 06:59 PM
I'm told another move may be comingCormier for Boris Badenov

oneupper
04-27-2007, 06:59 PM
does make sense though.

Logic perhaps. Sense...no way.

Sending a controllable player (who could be very good) for a roster spot is ridiculous. Burton is ours NOW...as long as we keep him at the ML level.

THIS is why I didn't like the FREEL extension. You figured this was next.

Patrick Bateman
04-27-2007, 07:01 PM
just what is needed to go with Javy, a legit 300 pounder.

He still has some reasonable upside if he can ever get a decent weight program.

There aint much in the league for catching prospects, and I think he may be a guy that can be had for cheap. He also isn't the worst fielder in the world, so he wouldn't be a guy that would be unattractive to Krivsky. Plus he is off to a slow start this season, so it wouldn't surprise me he was used as trade bait.

He along with someone else of moderate value would be a reasonable return for a team with nothing in the catching department.

flyer85
04-27-2007, 07:01 PM
Hmmm ... let's see ... staying positive ...

Outstanding deal for Billy Beane and the Oakland Athletics. Beane undoubtedly knows Denorfia's value, and he likely feels confident that Denorfia will be able to bounce back rather well from his arm injury this spring. It's really no surprise to me that Beane would acquire a guy capable of putting up a .350 on-base percentage while also playing a superb defensive center field.

As for the Reds, well ... what can be said?I don't mind the trading of Deno(or anyone else), the problem is we never seem to get anything good back. It seems like WK decides someone isn't useful anymore and they throw em out on the garbage heap.

pedro
04-27-2007, 07:01 PM
Logic perhaps. Sense...no way.

Sending a controllable player (who could be very good) for a roster spot is ridiculous. Burton is ours NOW...as long as we keep him at the ML level.

THIS is why I didn't like the FREEL extension. You figured this was next.

Maybe they don't think they can keep Burton on the ML roster right now. (If in fact Burton is the PTBNL)

TC81190
04-27-2007, 07:03 PM
I hope the other move isnt Edwin Encarnacion related... :(

Patrick Bateman
04-27-2007, 07:03 PM
As for the Reds, well ... what can be said?

We don't even know what the return is. Unlike the LaRue trade, I think there is a decent chance we actually get something back in this one.

This is a wait and see move since we don't know we have yet. It better be something because Denorfia does have some good value.

flyer85
04-27-2007, 07:03 PM
PTBNL only make sense on two counts
1) player isn't yet able to be traded(an 06 draftee) - best scenario
2) the Reds get a list of players to select from(meaning no one is really any good) and get some time to evaluate them.

TC81190
04-27-2007, 07:04 PM
Man now Im bummed...you gotta keep Denorfias and such players of the world. Once you get past youe Dunn's and Griffeys and so forth, those are the players that make up your team and you want some good ones, and Denorfia was a good one...

flyer85
04-27-2007, 07:05 PM
Maybe they don't think they can keep Burton on the ML roster right now. (If in fact Burton is the PTBNL)I not sure of the rules but I thought he has to pass thru waivers even before the Reds could work out a deal.

flyer85
04-27-2007, 07:06 PM
Man now Im bummed...you gotta keep Denorfias and such players of the world. they got Hopper and Castro, no need for a Deno. :rolleyes:

oneupper
04-27-2007, 07:09 PM
Maybe they don't think they can keep Burton on the ML roster right now. (If in fact Burton is the PTBNL)

Krivsky should have really thought of that when he took a Rule V guy...

This deal REALLY irks me. Last year's TRADE you could justify (perhaps) due to the $$ involved in keeping Kearns and Lopez.

Unless WK is plucking the next Babe Ruth off the A's as that PTBNL, I feel that in 2008 Deno is going to make WK look REALLY bad.

Marc D
04-27-2007, 07:12 PM
I don't mind trading anyone. I am however opposed to giving them away.


Time will tell but I'd wager the PTBNL's are named jack and squat.

guttle11
04-27-2007, 07:12 PM
Lost in all this are two things:

1.) We don't know who's coming here

2.) Denorfia is not going to be a starter here. If you can trade him for potential bullpen help, or a couple of decent young arms, you do it (especially if someone wants him while he's hurt). Which leads us back to #1.

Deno may be a good player in waiting, but he has no significant value here. Not with Dunn, Hamilton, Freel, Bruce, and maybe Stubbs. He just doesn't fit in anywhere. Finding a guy to play his role shouldn't be too difficult. If you can get something for him, take the deal.

Falls City Beer
04-27-2007, 07:12 PM
Once again Wayne sells for pennies on the dollar. I mean, a guy's value can't get much lower than being on the DL for the season.

That's not to say Beane doesn't know exactly what he's getting; it's just that Wayne has no idea how to evaluate what he has.

This one has total bust written all over it.

flyer85
04-27-2007, 07:14 PM
If the Reds were going to get any help put of this deal the return wouldn't be named PTBNL.

pedro
04-27-2007, 07:14 PM
The way I look at it Denorfia really only works as a CF. I just don't think he has enough power to start at a corner OF position. Perhaps the Reds looked at Hamilton's play in CF and decided that this was the best way to maximize Denorfia's value to the Reds. Either way, until we know all the details of what the Reds are getting in return it's hard to say what this means.

Ron Madden
04-27-2007, 07:14 PM
Once again Wayne sells for pennies on the dollar. I mean, a guy's value can't get much lower than being on the DL for the season.

That's not to say Beane doesn't know exactly what he's getting; it's just that Wayne has no idea how to evaluate what he has.

This one has total bust written all over it.

Sad but true.

flyer85
04-27-2007, 07:15 PM
Either way, until we know all the details of what the Reds are getting in return it's hard to say what this means.Generally, PTBNL means "slighly better than nothing".

CTA513
04-27-2007, 07:17 PM
Has BadFundamentals been put on suicide watch yet?

OnBaseMachine
04-27-2007, 07:18 PM
If Kurt Suzuki is one of the two PTBNL's then this is a good deal for the Reds. I would LOVE to have Dallas Braden though that is highly unlikely. I'll hold off judgement until I see who we have coming back.

I'm interested to see what the next deal is.

RedsManRick
04-27-2007, 07:18 PM
I was just about to post complaining, assuming the worst. That said, I think it's only fair to reserve judgment until we see the return. I have to believe that Burton's rights are going to be one of the PTBNL. Deno wasn't going to help us this year and with Hamilton and Freel both around for the next few years, there wasn't really a spot left for him. I was a huge advocate for him, but it was pretty clear he wasn't going to fit. Was this the right deal? Hard to say until we get names -- and even then, not until we see how those players shake out.

TC81190
04-27-2007, 07:19 PM
If Kurt Suzuki is one of the two PTBNL's then this is a good deal for the Reds. I would LOVE to have Dallas Braden though that is highly unlikely. I'll hold off judgement until I see who we have coming back.

I'm interested to see what the next deal is.

Yeah, I just can't see Kurt Suzuki as a PTBNL

flyer85
04-27-2007, 07:19 PM
If Kurt Suzuki is one of the two PTBNL's then this is a good deal for the Reds. the chances of that are none and none. There would be no reason for Suzuki to be a PTBNL.

Marc D
04-27-2007, 07:19 PM
WK made one trade with BB and lived to tell the tale. Odds are this time he gave up the pound of flesh.

flyer85
04-27-2007, 07:21 PM
WK made one trade with BB and lived to tell the tale. I think Beane is still chuckling after getting him to take Saarloos and his $1M+ deal.

wheels
04-27-2007, 07:21 PM
I wonder if this means we'll have to wait until Deno's back and playing regularly before we know who the other players are.

By my estimation, we'll be waiting a long while before we know.

Bummer.

Marc D
04-27-2007, 07:23 PM
I think Beane is still chuckling after getting him to take Saarloos and his $1M+ deal.


BB is the blackjack dealer and WK is the tourist who read a book on the flight out to vegas.

flyer85
04-27-2007, 07:23 PM
Deno wasn't going to help us this year and with Hamilton and Freel both around for the next few yearsnot the point. The point is in general PTBNL = basically nothing. I'd be shocked if either PTBNL turned out to be a player with much potential. And as near as I can tell they can't trade for Burton until they pass him through waivers.

Falls City Beer
04-27-2007, 07:23 PM
If the Reds were going to get any help put of this deal the return wouldn't be named PTBNL.

That's exactly right. If the Reds were going to get any help from this deal the player would at least be recognizable among a stat collective, if not "Joe Fan."

KronoRed
04-27-2007, 07:23 PM
Not surprised.

Reds Fanatic
04-27-2007, 07:24 PM
If I understand the rules right I think the A's may have as long as 6 months to name the players. The Reds and A's have probably agreed on a list of 5 to 10 players that those players will come from but it could be the end of the year before the A's name a player.

Chip R
04-27-2007, 07:25 PM
If the Reds were going to get any help put of this deal the return wouldn't be named PTBNL.


I hate to opine on any trade when it happens but I agree with flyer. I doubt Burton is involved since he is our property, not OAK's. And we usually don't get PTBNLs until several months in the future - if at all. We're still waiting for the one from K.C. and the others all have turned into cash. This doesn't help us now unless the cash allows the Reds to meet their payroll.

hebroncougar
04-27-2007, 07:27 PM
And my faith in WK drops considerably. You don't sell when the stock is at it's lowest point. I don't care if Deno wouldn't have started next year here or not, if not, you get him some PT in spring training and then trade him. Dumb, dumb move.

flyer85
04-27-2007, 07:28 PM
I read an article a few days back(on BP??) on franchise values that said the Reds made $22M in 2006.

KronoRed
04-27-2007, 07:29 PM
I hate to opine on any trade when it happens but I agree with flyer. I doubt Burton is involved since he is our property, not OAK's. And we usually don't get PTBNLs until several months in the future - if at all. We're still waiting for the one from K.C. and the others all have turned into cash. This doesn't help us now unless the cash allows the Reds to meet their payroll.


It probably wouldn't be that much cash.

I hope this doesn't turn out to be the Reds tossing a very good baseball player out for lunch money and a roster spot.

Falls City Beer
04-27-2007, 07:29 PM
Wayne has officially been washed ashore--he's flailing like a parched fish to get back in the drink.

It's gotten downright sad. He really needs to go.

Always Red
04-27-2007, 07:29 PM
If Burton is one of the PTBNL, this is a bad, bad deal, considering as how he was already ours. :cry:

This is sad; Deno was so undervalued here. On my Reds team, he'd have been the CF from day one. I wish him all the best in Oakland.

You all are right; we need to wait and see who we wind up with before deciding if this absolutely sucks or not. But a PTBNL is generally not someone to get excited about.

Dang.:(

flyer85
04-27-2007, 07:30 PM
You don't sell when the stock is at it's lowest point. The ONLY reason to trade Deno at this time is to get something that helps you now. Otherwise it makes absolutely no sense.

RedsManRick
04-27-2007, 07:32 PM
not the point. The point is in general PTBNL = basically nothing. I'd be shocked if either PTBNL turned out to be a player with much potential. And as near as I can tell they can't trade for Burton until they pass him through waivers.

Jeremy Bonderman, Scott Podsednik, Coco Crisp, Moises Alou, Jason Schmidt, and David Ortiz -- all PTBNL at some point.

Let's reserve the whining and moaning about who they are until we know WHO THEY ARE.

flyer85
04-27-2007, 07:32 PM
If Burton is one of the PTBNL, this is a bad, bad deal, considering as how he was already ours. :cry:
(not like the bullpen is full of guys the Reds can't live without.

After having a month to watch this team there is no way WK can think he has a division contender.

hebroncougar
04-27-2007, 07:32 PM
The ONLY reason to trade Deno at this time is to get something that helps you now. Otherwise it makes absolutely no sense.

You think Beane's going to give up anything with significant value right now, with the season about 20 games old??? Not going to happen. Krivsky is just looking like a desperate man (and again, the season is about 20 games old). It makes no freaking sense at all. I agree.

Rocket_Fuel
04-27-2007, 07:32 PM
Denorfia has proven nothing and is out for Tommy John Surgery. How in the world is trading him for prospects NOT a good move?

RedsManRick
04-27-2007, 07:33 PM
This just in: the sky is falling.

Ron Madden
04-27-2007, 07:33 PM
The ONLY reason to trade Deno at this time is to get something that helps you now. Otherwise it makes absolutely no sense.

WK hasn't made sense to me since the Phillips pick up.

pedro
04-27-2007, 07:33 PM
According to the comments on Trent's blog John Fay is reporting that Burton is not involved.

Rocket_Fuel
04-27-2007, 07:33 PM
You think Beane's going to give up anything with significant value right now, with the season about 20 games old??? Not going to happen.


The Reds didn't give up anything of significant value either.

Matt700wlw
04-27-2007, 07:33 PM
Jeremy Bonderman, Scott Podsednik, Coco Crisp, Moises Alou, Jason Schmidt, and David Ortiz -- all PTBNL at some point.

Let's reserve the whining and moaning about who they are until we know WHO THEY ARE.

That's no fun

dougdirt
04-27-2007, 07:33 PM
Another one bites the dust..... Sad to see you go Chris.

RFS62
04-27-2007, 07:34 PM
Jeremy Bonderman, Scott Podsednik, Coco Crisp, Moises Alou, Jason Schmidt, and David Ortiz -- all PTBNL at some point.

Let's reserve the whining and moaning about who they are until we know WHO THEY ARE.



That's a good one.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

flyer85
04-27-2007, 07:35 PM
Denorfia has proven nothing and is out for Tommy John Surgery. How in the world is trading him for prospects NOT a good move?
who said the Reds were getting prospects? :D Suspects is much more likely.

VR
04-27-2007, 07:36 PM
First Guillen, now Deno.

pedro
04-27-2007, 07:37 PM
Personally I don't think it's unreasonable to flip a guy that can't play this year, is already 27, and doesn't project to be one of your starting OF's for some minor league depth.

It does seem to me that this doesn't signal any intention by the Reds to move Griffey or Dunn anytime soon.

Rocket_Fuel
04-27-2007, 07:37 PM
First Guillen, now Deno.


Didn't Jose Guillen get us Aaron Harang?

hebroncougar
04-27-2007, 07:37 PM
The Reds didn't give up anything of significant value either.

You are right, Deno didn't have any significant value on the shelf for the rest of the year. That's why you don't sell him, if you want to sell him, at this point.

Doro
04-27-2007, 07:39 PM
We are talking about Chris Denorfia right? and not Stubbs, Hamilton, or Dunn? Just wanted to make sure. I liked Denorfia but he wasnt going to be anything great especially with our current outfielders and future prospects clogging up that position. And someone thinks Wayne should go? I wont even comment on that.

flyer85
04-27-2007, 07:40 PM
Didn't Jose Guillen get us Aaron Harang?
that was 3 regimes ago.

flyer85
04-27-2007, 07:41 PM
We are talking about Chris Denorfia right? Why trade him now?

Ron Madden
04-27-2007, 07:42 PM
We are talking about Chris Denorfia right? and not Stubbs, Hamilton, or Dunn? Just wanted to make sure. I liked Denorfia but he wasnt going to be anything great especially with our current outfielders and future prospects clogging up that position. And someone thinks Wayne should go? I wont even comment on that.

The point is we dealt him at his lowest level of value.

So that means we probably gave him away.

Falls City Beer
04-27-2007, 07:43 PM
Personally I don't think it's unreasonable to flip a guy that can't play this year, is already 27, and doesn't project to be one of your starting OF's for some minor league depth.

It does seem to me that this doesn't signal any intention by the Reds to move Griffey or Dunn anytime soon.

One simple principle: maximize your return.

This team's talent pool is just about empty.

dsmith421
04-27-2007, 07:43 PM
Just moronic. There is absolutely no reason for the Reds to trade Denorfia now. This makes no sense and I fail to see how it can benefit the Reds in any meaningful way.

Rocket_Fuel
04-27-2007, 07:44 PM
You are right, Deno didn't have any significant value on the shelf for the rest of the year. That's why you don't sell him, if you want to sell him, at this point.

He wasn't of value BEFORE the injury.

Rocket_Fuel
04-27-2007, 07:44 PM
that was 3 regimes ago.

That wasn't my point. Someone was lamenting that first the Reds traded Guillen and now Denorfia. I reminds that poster that Guillen got us Harang.

WMR
04-27-2007, 07:45 PM
He wasn't of value BEFORE the injury.

You couldn't be any more incorrect.

Marc D
04-27-2007, 07:46 PM
That wasn't my point. Someone was lamenting that first the Reds traded Guillen and now Denorfia. I reminds that poster that Guillen got us Harang.


I think the poster had his sarcasm font on and some missed it.

Falls City Beer
04-27-2007, 07:46 PM
Just moronic. There is absolutely no reason for the Reds to trade Denorfia now. This makes no sense and I fail to see how it can benefit the Reds in any meaningful way.

It won't help the team, particularly when the A's farm is at one of its thinner points in the last 7 years.

There was a time when even a secondary prospect from the A's was a smart pickup, but that time is no more; and Deno won't bring back an upper tier prospect from their system.

Rocket_Fuel
04-27-2007, 07:46 PM
My god, only Reds fans would be up in arms because the Reds traded, at best, the 4th or 5th outfielder in their rotation, who happened to be out for the season, for prospects in a farm system that needs it. Oh, and those prospects are coming from, arguably, the best farm system in baseball. Crazy. If Krivsky had traded two prospects for a #4 or #5 outfielder coming off of Tommy John surgery people would be ready to string him up, and rightfully so.

Rocket_Fuel
04-27-2007, 07:46 PM
I think the poster had his sarcasm font on and some missed it.

If so my mistake! :D

dougdirt
04-27-2007, 07:47 PM
He wasn't of value BEFORE the injury.

Then I guess teams were calling about him all last season because of his apparent good looks right?

guttle11
04-27-2007, 07:48 PM
One simple principle: maximize your return.

This team's talent pool is just about empty.

Honestly though, what value would Denorfia have when healthy? He wasn't ever going to be a starter here. I don't think he'd have any more value than what the Reds got.

Ron Madden
04-27-2007, 07:48 PM
My god, only Reds fans would be up in arms because the Reds traded, at best, the 4th or 5th outfielder in their rotation, who happened to be out for the season, for prospects in a farm system that needs it. Oh, and those prospects are coming from, arguably, the best farm system in baseball. Crazy.

Wow, You seem to be well informed.

dougdirt
04-27-2007, 07:49 PM
My god, only Reds fans would be up in arms because the Reds traded, at best, the 4th or 5th outfielder in their rotation, who happened to be out for the season, for prospects in a farm system that needs it. Oh, and those prospects are coming from, arguably, the best farm system in baseball. Crazy.

hahahahahahahahahaha. you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. The A's farm system is horrible. I mean absolutely horrible. They lack any top end prospects whatsoever and their depth is not very good. The Reds system is MUCH better than the A's system is in. If this were 3 years ago, you may have a point, but the A's top prospect would be at best #4 in our system.

dsmith421
04-27-2007, 07:49 PM
He wasn't of value BEFORE the injury.

He hit .350 in AAA and did well during his cup of coffee last year. He's also one of the best defenders in the organization. He's got value to a smart team.

But frankly, it was pretty clear that this organization was never going to give him a fair shot at winning a fulltime slot. Narron and Krivsky didn't like him, so out the door he goes in exchange for...well...nothing.

Kradokk
04-27-2007, 07:49 PM
I just don't get all the complaining on this board.

The Reds have an excess of outfielders, including four who should be starters, and they are able to trade an injured outfielder, from whom they would get no production for likely the entire season, for two PTBNL and Cash...

I just don't see how this is a bad trade.

Junior, while on the decline, is not likely to go anywhere before his contract is up. Dunn is who he is, Freel you just locked up longterm, and you have Hamilton leading the team in HRs, and all rookies in most offensive categories. Where would Deno play? In two years when Bruce is ready, where does Deno play? In 3 years if Stubbs is ready, where does Deno play?

On this team, Deno is/was expendable. Neither Dunn, nor Griffey is sitting for Deno. Hamilton is making a strong argument for why you dont sit him either. Are you going to sit Freel for Deno? Maybe...

Outfielders are the easiest commodity to acquire in this game right now,and even if Deno goes on to play as well as Guillen, J. Encarnacion, or Kearns has since leaving the Reds, the team is still just fine.

The only negative I can see, is that it puts more pressure on Hamilton, as he knows he must produce as the 4th OF, instead of Deno. But that is a moot point considering Deno is out for the year.

Put the Man-Love for Deno aside, and move on. The organization undervalued him, and this board totally overvalued him. I just dont see why everyone is up in arms.

WMR
04-27-2007, 07:50 PM
Honestly though, what value would Denorfia have when healthy? He wasn't ever going to be a starter here. I don't think he'd have any more value than what the Reds got.

Injured are players are worth less on the trade market than healthy ones, as radical as that sounds to some people.

flyer85
04-27-2007, 07:50 PM
This team's talent pool is just about empty.WK has positioned the team so that the only option is to wait and hope the farm system starts cranking out players.

dsmith421
04-27-2007, 07:51 PM
WK has positioned the team so that the only option is to wait and hope the farm system starts cranking out players.

Outside of Bailey, Bruce, Votto and (arguably) Stubbs, is there really anyone in the system that projects to be a major league regular?

Always Red
04-27-2007, 07:51 PM
Jeremy Bonderman, Scott Podsednik, Coco Crisp, Moises Alou, Jason Schmidt, and David Ortiz -- all PTBNL at some point.

Let's reserve the whining and moaning about who they are until we know WHO THEY ARE.

OK, thanks for that; I'm starting to feel better now...:)

Spring~Fields
04-27-2007, 07:51 PM
Might open some doors for Deno, tough to find a place to play in Cincy even if healthy. He might go out there and get a chance.

flyer85
04-27-2007, 07:51 PM
The Reds have an excess of outfielders... the Reds have an excess of nothing

Krusty
04-27-2007, 07:52 PM
Man, seven pages for Deno? You would think Adam Dunn was traded.

WMR
04-27-2007, 07:52 PM
Including Stubbs in that group is a HUGE--almost laughable--stretch at this point.

Always Red
04-27-2007, 07:53 PM
I just don't see how this is a bad trade.



Wouldn't you want to wait and see who we get in return before you decide that?

flyer85
04-27-2007, 07:53 PM
Outside of Bailey, Bruce, Votto and (arguably) Stubbs, is there really anyone in the system that projects to be a major league regular?certainly no one in the upper minors. Dayton seems to have more than their share of good prospects but low A is a LONG way from the majors

dsmith421
04-27-2007, 07:53 PM
Including Stubbs in that group is a HUGE--almost laughable--stretch at this point.

Hence "arguably". I think he's going to be a gigantic bust.

WMR
04-27-2007, 07:53 PM
Man, seven pages for Deno? You would think Adam Dunn was traded.

Yeah, good thing decent OBPing, GG-caliber CFers grow on trees. :rolleyes:

Reds Freak
04-27-2007, 07:54 PM
Man, seven pages for Deno? You would think Adam Dunn was traded.

You're surprised? I agree, those PTBNL better be 2 decent prospects but this is the least of this teams worries right now and for the future.

Matt700wlw
04-27-2007, 07:54 PM
Man, seven pages for Deno? You would think Adam Dunn was traded.

Wait until that happens!

<ducks>

:eek:

WMR
04-27-2007, 07:54 PM
Hence "arguably". I think he's going to be a gigantic bust.

Yeah we're on the same page.

Patrick Bateman
04-27-2007, 07:55 PM
Junior, while on the decline, is not likely to go anywhere before his contract is up. Dunn is who he is, Freel you just locked up longterm, and you have Hamilton leading the team in HRs, and all rookies in most offensive categories. Where would Deno play? In two years when Bruce is ready, where does Deno play? In 3 years if Stubbs is ready, where does Deno play?


I hope this move wasn't made to make room for Bruce in 2 seasons or Stubbs in 3.

Spring~Fields
04-27-2007, 07:55 PM
... the Reds have an excess of nothing


Decent bench players on very good teams. ;)

guttle11
04-27-2007, 07:55 PM
Injured are players are worth less on the trade market than healthy ones, as radical as that sounds to some people.

No need to talk down to me, buddy. I understand what you're saying.

Denorfia has little value. He's not a highly rated prospect, he's been ok at best in his short stint in ML baseball, and he projects to being as good as a decent player. There's absolutely no value there, healthy or not. He's not going to play here, and no one will pay much for him. THey got what they could.

I'd bet anything that's all they'd get if he were in uniform right now.

Razor Shines
04-27-2007, 07:56 PM
My god, only Reds fans would be up in arms because the Reds traded, at best, the 4th or 5th outfielder in their rotation, who happened to be out for the season, for prospects in a farm system that needs it. Oh, and those prospects are coming from, arguably, the best farm system in baseball. Crazy. If Krivsky had traded two prospects for a #4 or #5 outfielder coming off of Tommy John surgery people would be ready to string him up, and rightfully so.

Nice try man. You can probably get away with saying things like that one most baseball websites, but not this one. It sounded good, unfortunately it wasn't true.

Spring~Fields
04-27-2007, 07:57 PM
Wait until that happens!

<ducks>

:eek:

Keyboards will need gear oil to keep them from smoking. :)

dsmith421
04-27-2007, 07:57 PM
You're surprised? I agree, those PTBNL better be 2 decent prospects but this is the least of this teams worries right now and for the future.

When you have a potentially useful player and you give that player away for the baseball equivalent of nothing, that's a serious problem.

I'm sick of every stupid personnel move this team making being dismissed with a "it's the least of our problems." If Krivsky wasn't prone to give away talent and throw money at crap, perhaps this ballclub would have even one reliable relief pitcher.

Kradokk
04-27-2007, 07:57 PM
Wouldn't you want to wait and see who we get in return before you decide that?

Getting anything at all, for an injured outfielder, with no chance to break into the starting lineup, is a positive in my mind.

It is obvious neither Narron or WK thought much of him. At least this way, the team gets something in return, instead of Deno rotting in AAA.

Could they have traded him for something better, perhaps. But either way, he never would have had the chance to do anything for the Reds. There is no way to raise the trade value of an injured outfielder, that has fallen out of favor with the organization.

Dunner44
04-27-2007, 07:59 PM
New info from the C-man:


Talked to Wayne -- who is in Chattanooga -- and he said one of the players to be named could be named tonight and then the other will come later this season. Neither involved is Burton, he said. To make a deal for Burton, he would first have to clear wavers and then a trade could be made.

WMR
04-27-2007, 07:59 PM
No need to talk down to me, buddy. I understand what you're saying.

Sorry, wasn't trying to talk down to you.

Just vehement disagreement.

Patrick Bateman
04-27-2007, 08:00 PM
There's absolutely no value there, healthy or not. He's not going to play here, and no one will pay much for him.

I disagree here. There is quite a bit of value in a potential average major league starting calibre player at a skill poistion while making near major league minimum salaries.

Denorfia would be a very good player to have around. If he was on the team, he wouldn't be a startre obviously, but he would be one of the better 4th OF's around while providing injury depth.

He wasn't going to be a starter on this team, but Deno did have a nice skill set that translates to pretty decent value. There's lots of teams that could use him as a starting CF (if healthy).

We need to see the return before this trade is fairly evaluated, but Deno should bring back something of moderate value.

dougdirt
04-27-2007, 08:00 PM
Getting anything at all, for an injured outfielder, with no chance to break into the starting lineup, is a positive in my mind.

It is obvious neither Narron or WK thought much of him. At least this way, the team gets something in return, instead of Deno rotting in AAA.

Could they have traded him for something better, perhaps. But either way, he never would have had the chance to do anything for the Reds. There is no way to raise the trade value of an injured outfielder, that has fallen out of favor with the organization.

Lets be honest here.... the Reds are going to get at best 2 fringe prospects from the A's for Denorfia. Next year rolls around, Denorfia is at worst a solid bench player for the A's while we have to fringe guys in the minor leagues.

flyer85
04-27-2007, 08:01 PM
Denorfia has little value. He's not a highly rated prospect, he's been ok at best in his short stint in ML baseballstill begs the issue ... why now? If he has so little value and is out for 5 more months then what is the reason to trade him now ?

The only answer that makes sense if BB must have offered a deal to good to pass up ... but I am highly skeptical of that(especially with Oakland's currently depleted farm system).

Patrick Bateman
04-27-2007, 08:01 PM
New info from the C-man:

This blurb indicates that the PTBNL is not of the variety that Flyer stated, and could be just about anyone.

Always Red
04-27-2007, 08:01 PM
It is obvious neither Narron or WK thought much of him. At least this way, the team gets something in return, instead of Deno rotting in AAA.



Well, you're right about that; he wasn't going to get a shot here with JN/WK.

I guess we'll see half of the return later this evening...

guttle11
04-27-2007, 08:02 PM
Sorry, wasn't trying to talk down to you.

Just vehement disagreement.

No problem man. Hot button issue, I fully understand.

As for how we feel, we'll just have to agree to disagree. No sense in going back and forth for hours.

dsmith421
04-27-2007, 08:02 PM
Well, you're right about that; he wasn't going to get a shot here with JN/WK.


Further evidence that those two need to seek employment elsewhere. Mark my words, Encarnacion is next.

flyer85
04-27-2007, 08:03 PM
Maybe the Reds are getting Kendall :)

IamWallaman
04-27-2007, 08:05 PM
I've been quietly lurking lately but I have to chime in and simply say, "Chill out, folks." You're letting the slow start get you uncharacteristically... uhhh... scratch that... significantly more doom-and-gloom than usual.

The worst part is the timing... but considering the methodology of K, I'm in no way surprised.

WMR
04-27-2007, 08:06 PM
No problem man. Hot button issue, I fully understand.

As for how we feel, we'll just have to agree to disagree. No sense in going back and forth for hours.

:)

Falls City Beer
04-27-2007, 08:07 PM
Maybe the Reds are getting Kendall :)

Just what the Reds need: a player who's a shadow of his former self. And expensive.

Kradokk
04-27-2007, 08:07 PM
Lets be honest here.... the Reds are going to get at best 2 fringe prospects from the A's for Denorfia. Next year rolls around, Denorfia is at worst a solid bench player for the A's while we have to fringe guys in the minor leagues.

Barring a significant trade, when next year rolls around, Deno still isnt playing on the Reds, at least not in any significant capacity.

The only Team that should be upset about this trade, is Louisville, as they were the only ones who would have seen any benefit from Deno still being the org.

The Reds traded a player, who never would have played this season, and never would have seen significant time, baring major injury or trade, for something.

It remains to be seen, whether that "something" will be any good or not.

Always Red
04-27-2007, 08:09 PM
Further evidence that those two need to seek employment elsewhere. Mark my words, Encarnacion is next.

I don't have a problem with them moving ANYONE, as long as they get at least equal return.

With Edwin, if they trade him, it better not be with Freel winding up at 3B. That would be a total abomination. He's going to play terribly down there, wind up running into a dugout and getting hurt, and then Juan Castro and his .083 BA will be our starting 3B. And I do like Juan Castro, believe it or not. But only in the 9th inning, at 3B only, of games with one run leads. Then Junior will go out with illness or injury, and the OF will be down to Dunn, Hammy, Hopper, Crosby, Gil.

Surely this will not happen?

We'll see. I've been generally supportive of WK, but I'm slipping. FCB's point of view about the FO is making more sense to me every day.

dsmith421
04-27-2007, 08:10 PM
Knowing Krivsky, we're getting Alan Embree and Marco Scutaro. You can all commence projectile vomiting now.

VR
04-27-2007, 08:11 PM
Didn't Jose Guillen get us Aaron Harang?


;) there. :)

westofyou
04-27-2007, 08:12 PM
Chris Denorfia is the Bizarro Dave Revering

flyer85
04-27-2007, 08:12 PM
Just what the Reds need: a player who's a shadow of his former self. And expensive.... they seem to like those kind. The Pirates are still paying a chunk of his salary.

dougdirt
04-27-2007, 08:13 PM
Barring a significant trade, when next year rolls around, Deno still isnt playing on the Reds, at least not in any significant capacity.

The only Team that should be upset about this trade, is Louisville, as they were the only ones who would have seen any benefit from Deno still being the org.

The Reds traded a player, who never would have played this season, and never would have seen significant time, baring major injury or trade, for something.

It remains to be seen, whether that "something" will be any good or not.

He was pretty much a lock to make this team until his arm blew up. The Reds needed another right handed bat off the bench, and Denorfia defines what you want from a bench guy. He plays great defense at all 3 positions in the OF, he can steal you bases as a pinch runner, he can get on base for you as a pinch hitter. On top of that, he is good enough to actually start for half the teams in baseball. He wouldnt have started here, but he sure is going to be a lot more valuable next season, and the season after than whoever we get from the A's. Odds are, he has already played more games in the Majors than either of the two guys we get ever will considering the poor shape of the A's system and the fact that we wont get any of their top guys, who are really the only ones worth talking about.

KronoRed
04-27-2007, 08:16 PM
Maybe the Reds are getting Kendall :)

We are short a catcher.

RedEye
04-27-2007, 08:17 PM
We are talking about Chris Denorfia right? and not Stubbs, Hamilton, or Dunn? Just wanted to make sure. I liked Denorfia but he wasnt going to be anything great especially with our current outfielders and future prospects clogging up that position. And someone thinks Wayne should go? I wont even comment on that.

And the defensive rationalizations on Wayne's latest move begin... before we even know the return. Let the bickering begin.

I can't wait until next year when people are posting a thread every week about how the "Denorfia trade may have not gotten much in return" but that it did have some "unintended benefits" or "unexpected benefits" that ended up "clearing the way for us to keep Hamilton in the outfield picture" and also "let us sign players X and Y" who we weren't even thinking about now.

I'm not the biggest Deno fan. I wasn't the biggest Kearns or Lopez fan either. My problem with this move, as with The Trade, is about the VALUE we (most certainly won't) get in return and--perhaps even more so--about the TIMING with which a useful player was dumped like a bag of moldy tangerines.

I think this kind of move is starting to look disturbingly less like an exception (or a rookie GM mistake) and horrifyingly more like the way Wayne Krivsky rolls. Yikes.

Always Red
04-27-2007, 08:18 PM
He was pretty much a lock to make this team until his arm blew up.

The silver lining of Deno's arm blowing up was the emergence of Hamilton. Deno would have played a lot this year as the 4th OF'er, him going down allowed Hammy to play a lot more than he would have right away.

Fay's blog says this might have gone down in ST, had he not got hurt.

So, maybe the Reds were banking on Hamilton all the way?

Danny Serafini
04-27-2007, 08:32 PM
Everyone seems to be making the assumption that post-injury Denorfia will be just as good as pre-injury Denorfia. Maybe he will, then again maybe he won't. Maybe Tommy John surgery robs him of a little arm strength, and lowers his defensive value some. Maybe it goofs with his swing. And maybe it doesn't, I don't know. But it's something to consider.

Marc D
04-27-2007, 08:33 PM
I've been quietly lurking lately but I have to chime in and simply say, "Chill out, folks." You're letting the slow start get you uncharacteristically... uhhh... scratch that... significantly more doom-and-gloom than usual.

The worst part is the timing... but considering the methodology of K, I'm in no way surprised.


Its starting to dawn on most that we have the same ol situation on our hands.

Bad team
Clueless manager
Inept FO
This owner talks a better game than the last one but this is all going down on his watch.

We're still fast tracking to Clipperdom with a few minor leaguers all thats standing in the way.

M2
04-27-2007, 08:42 PM
Good for Chris. Nice to see him go somewhere he'll be wanted.

As for the Reds, I don't mind if they clean out the cupboards from the previous regime per se, but the nagging question I've got is who is the new regime's kind of player? Are Phillips and Hobbs the model? Big tools? I'm cool with that, but Krivsky needs to find a lot more guys who fit that mold.

mth123
04-27-2007, 08:44 PM
Some points I haven't seen yet that I'll add:

1. The A's and Reds had unfinished business from the Saarloos deal. If I recall correctly that deal involved both teams sending a PTBNL the other way. I wonder if that factors in somehow.

2. There are a couple of reason why the PTBNL could be the return beyond it being a pure afterthought. First the A's have a bunch of OF on the DL, maybe they want to wait for them to start coming back before sending a player. Second, the "other deal" may be the Reds clearing a roster spot before naming the PTBNL.

3. It doesn't seem like a pure give away or it wouldn't be two PTBNL. It would simply be 1 IMO.

For some reason I have a hunch that Bobby Kielty may be involved. When the OF start coming back its possible that the A's will go with the younger guys as reserves and want to rid themselves of Kielty's salary. Moving a $2.1 Million player who will be a FA in 2008 would fit with the A's method of operations and a Reds deal of Cormier somewhere would free the payroll room. Just speculation on my part.

oneupper
04-27-2007, 08:50 PM
A's OF is Bradly (DL), Nick Swisher (more of a DH), Travis Buck, Shannon Stewart, Danny Putnam and Bobby Kielty.

I'd say Deno can find a place there...specially with the DH.

BubbaCrosby
04-27-2007, 08:53 PM
Bubba is tearin' it up in the minors....hmmm......

Falls City Beer
04-27-2007, 08:54 PM
A's OF is Bradly (DL), Nick Swisher (more of a DH), Travis Buck, Shannon Stewart, Danny Putnam and Bobby Kielty.

I'd say Deno can find a place there...specially with the DH.

Healthy, he'll be the second best OF on the A's.

Wheelhouse
04-27-2007, 08:55 PM
Wayne has officially been washed ashore--he's flailing like a parched fish to get back in the drink.

It's gotten downright sad. He really needs to go.

Here, here! The thing I CANNOT believe is how he took that guy Hamilton, a druggie who had not played for for years, and that never above A ball. What a moron! Get rid of Wayne now!

Willy
04-27-2007, 08:58 PM
I just wanted to thank all of the posters that didn't jump off the deep end over this trade. I'm sorry I couldn't rep all of you but I ran out. :)

It discuss me that this board has turned into this. Any move made by this club turns into an open invitation to bash Wayne. This place is turning into a joke.

The Reds just traded an outfielder who will be 28 before he sees the field again, we don't even know what we are getting in return, and some people need to be on a suicide watch. RELAX!!!!

This place is turning into a place where people just complain and moan.

Marc D
04-27-2007, 08:59 PM
Here, here! The thing I CANNOT believe is how he took that guy Hamilton, a druggie who had not played for for years, and that never above A ball. What a moron! Get rid of Wayne now!


Ross looked like a masterstroke at one point to. Jury's still out on all of WK's pickups except Arroyo. The verdict is in on The Trade however.

corkedbat
04-27-2007, 09:01 PM
JMO, but Deno = Most over-hyped player in the history of this board

Wheelhouse
04-27-2007, 09:03 PM
Ross looked like a masterstroke at one point to. Jury's still out on all of WK's pickups except Arroyo. The verdict is in on The Trade however.

Either Arroyo or Phillips could be the best acquisition in all of baseball last year, and Hamilton is well on the way to being that this year. C'mon.

Wheelhouse
04-27-2007, 09:04 PM
JMO, but Deno = Most over-hyped player in the history of this board

Bingo.

Marc D
04-27-2007, 09:08 PM
Either Arroyo or Phillips could be the best acquisition in all of baseball last year, and Hamilton is well on the way to being that this year. C'mon.


And Hamilton could just as easily go the way of BP and Ross. Hopefully not but its certainly possible.

Banking on repeat career years is dicey business and scares me when its the cornerstone of our GM's plan.

We'll see how he does on the trade front but he has some serious ground to make up from that last clunker.

thatcoolguy_22
04-27-2007, 09:09 PM
I just wanted to thank all of the posters that didn't jump off the deep end over this trade. I'm sorry I couldn't rep all of you but I ran out. :)

It discuss me that this board has turned into this. Any move made by this club turns into an open invitation to bash Wayne. This place is turning into a joke.

The Reds just traded an outfielder who will be 28 before he sees the field again, we don't even know what we are getting in return, and some people need to be on a suicide watch. RELAX!!!!

This place is turning into a place where people just complain and moan.

I just woke up and come to the board to read this thread. WOW!!


Not the trade in itself but, the fact that almost everyone is jumping down WK's throat over this one. What if the players to be named later go by...Dan Haren and Rich Harden? It sounds stupid and I'm 99.99999999999999999% sure they are not however WE DO NOT KNOW WHO WE ARE GETTING IN RETURN!!!!

The A's currently owe us 3 players and that is a franchise that I enjoy trading with ;)

edabbs44
04-27-2007, 09:12 PM
JMO, but Deno = Most over-hyped player in the history of this board

It would have been nice to see him get an opportunity. A real one, not that insult he got last July.

tripleaaaron
04-27-2007, 09:16 PM
I just wanted to thank all of the posters that didn't jump off the deep end over this trade. I'm sorry I couldn't rep all of you but I ran out. :)

It discuss me that this board has turned into this. Any move made by this club turns into an open invitation to bash Wayne. This place is turning into a joke.

The Reds just traded an outfielder who will be 28 before he sees the field again, we don't even know what we are getting in return, and some people need to be on a suicide watch. RELAX!!!!

This place is turning into a place where people just complain and moan.

If I was able to award rep points, I would. I myself am at least waiting to hear ONE name before making any judgements, but that is not even good enough. A trade like this should not be judged until at least Deno is back on the field, producing.

dougdirt
04-27-2007, 09:17 PM
I just woke up and come to the board to read this thread. WOW!!


Not the trade in itself but, the fact that almost everyone is jumping down WK's throat over this one. What if the players to be named later go by...Dan Haren and Rich Harden? It sounds stupid and I'm 99.99999999999999999% sure they are not however WE DO NOT KNOW WHO WE ARE GETTING IN RETURN!!!!

The A's currently owe us 3 players and that is a franchise that I enjoy trading with ;)

Well if its coming from their farm system, I mind because the only decent parts in their system, they arent trading because they have so few.

tripleaaaron
04-27-2007, 09:17 PM
Ross looked like a masterstroke at one point to. Jury's still out on all of WK's pickups except Arroyo. The verdict is in on The Trade however.

Phillips says hi!:thumbup:

Marc D
04-27-2007, 09:19 PM
Phillips says hi!:thumbup:


His .313 OBP and .235 BA say hi right back.

MrCinatit
04-27-2007, 09:21 PM
JMO, but Deno = Most over-hyped player in the history of this board

Not to sound crass, but I wonder what the reaction on Oakland boards that they just got a guy who is on the disabled list for the rest of the year, will be 28 before he takes another swing at the bat, and OPS' at .740 lifetime.
I feel a twinge of regret that DenO did not get a full chance, but at the same time I do not believe he was the second coming - nor is this proof that Wayne's moves will forever destroy this ball club.
That said, I hope we get a couple of good players in return - but don't expect the gems of the A's farm system. Like Kearns, I believe we are over valuing our own players.
And, that said, I wish DenO luck in Oakland.

TeamBoone
04-27-2007, 09:22 PM
I'm really shaking my head at this one. Why trade him now? Especially for two PTBNL.

It would make more sense to me if they were trading for someone specific. It looks like a trade just to trade, for no apparent reason.

Totally don't get it.

reds44
04-27-2007, 09:26 PM
Well, that's interesting.

I wish we could have done something get some help for now.

A redszone legend is traded.

AtomicDumpling
04-27-2007, 09:41 PM
On Rotoworld they said the Reds receive 2 PTBNL and cash. Maybe it is the cash the Reds were after.

It sounds like there is more to this deal than has been announced so far. Maybe they are not naming the players yet because there are other deals in the works. Maybe it is really a three-team trade in which the Reds or A's are still finalizing the other portion.

edabbs44
04-27-2007, 09:42 PM
On Rotoworld they said the Reds receive 2 PTBNL and cash. Maybe it is the cash the Reds were after.

It sounds like there is more to this deal than has been announced so far. Maybe they are not naming the players yet because there are other deals in the works. Maybe it is really a three-team trade in which the Reds or A's are still finalizing the other portion.

If that's the case, then I'm really scared. I could see Cincy getting someone like Jose Mesa in this deal.

UK Reds Fan
04-27-2007, 09:45 PM
I'm really shaking my head at this one. Why trade him now? Especially for two PTBNL.

It would make more sense to me if they were trading for someone specific. It looks like a trade just to trade, for no apparent reason.

Totally don't get it.

Could not agree more....to move an extra OF, who makes no money, on a team looking to build for next year quite likely, for 2 PTBNL...is like trading on the last week of Fantasy football while in last place. Just movement with no purpose.

WK's wheeling and dealing in the 2nd half of last season unto this point is pointless. Trading for Yan, Mays, Franklin, Cormier, Schwoeniess, Guardado, Korean Pitcher, Lohse, etc.. and the older BP guys, etc.. was just like a kid with 10 bucks in his pocket going to the dollar store and junking it for the sake of nothing.

What is accomplished by throwing Deno away for PTBNL? The kid was making league minimum and is superior to Hopper and possibly Freel if given the ABs.

DunnFan44
04-27-2007, 09:47 PM
Not to sound crass, but I wonder what the reaction on Oakland boards that they just got a guy who is on the disabled list for the rest of the year, will be 28 before he takes another swing at the bat, and OPS' at .740 lifetime.
I feel a twinge of regret that DenO did not get a full chance, but at the same time I do not believe he was the second coming - nor is this proof that Wayne's moves will forever destroy this ball club.
That said, I hope we get a couple of good players in return - but don't expect the gems of the A's farm system. Like Kearns, I believe we are over valuing our own players.
And, that said, I wish DenO luck in Oakland.


Very well put!!! Denorfia was not a top 10 prospect for the Reds, so dont expect anything major in return. Maybe a reliver or future starter. I hate the dreaded PTBNL. Remember we got Harang from Oakland.
Hamiltons emergence is the reason for Denorfias departure.

dman
04-27-2007, 09:47 PM
We don't even know what the return is. Unlike the LaRue trade, I think there is a decent chance we actually get something back in this one.

This is a wait and see move since we don't know we have yet. It better be something because Denorfia does have some good value.

Yeah, but when we look back at the history of recent Reds GM's (Dan O, Wayne K) we can get a good idea.:bang:

butlerbulldogs
04-27-2007, 10:00 PM
man, i just wasted 10 minutes reading through 12 pages of nothing...MODS please update the thread name when something relevant gets posted.

thanks

tsj017
04-27-2007, 10:05 PM
Just what the Reds need: a player who's a shadow of his former self. And expensive.


But we already have Griffey! :devil:

OnBaseMachine
04-27-2007, 10:06 PM
Krivsky said one of the two players the Reds are receiving likely will be announced within the next three days. He indicated both were close to being Major League-ready. No specifics in regard to the cash considerations were disclosed.

"We're satisfied with what we're getting in return," Krivsky said. "I hope it ends up being a win-win for both sides."

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070427&content_id=1933650&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

Matt700wlw
04-27-2007, 10:10 PM
Krivsky said one of the two players the Reds are receiving likely will be announced within the next three days. He indicated both were close to being Major League-ready. No specifics in regard to the cash considerations were disclosed.

"We're satisfied with what we're getting in return," Krivsky said. "I hope it ends up being a win-win for both sides."

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070427&content_id=1933650&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin


One could be named tonight....of course who knows if I'll be around to break the news. I like breaking the news. :)

reds44
04-27-2007, 10:11 PM
Krivsky said one of the two players the Reds are receiving likely will be announced within the next three days. He indicated both were close to being Major League-ready. No specifics in regard to the cash considerations were disclosed.

"We're satisfied with what we're getting in return," Krivsky said. "I hope it ends up being a win-win for both sides."

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070427&content_id=1933650&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin
That is very interesting. I'm thinking one is an outfielder on one is a relief pitcher.

reds44
04-27-2007, 10:12 PM
One could be named tonight....of course who knows if I'll be around to break the news. I like breaking the news. :)
You better be here.

:evil:

KYRed
04-27-2007, 10:13 PM
Also interesting.

"It had been discussed midway through Spring Training," Krivsky said. "Obviously, when Deno got hurt, it changed things for a while. [A's general manager Billy Beane] first approached us the first week in April after Deno's surgery and wanted to see if we were still interested. So this thing's been going on for a long time. But it took a little different twist after Deno got hurt.

"It speaks to how much they like Deno, and finally, it got to a point where what they were offering, we felt like it was a win-win for both of us."

Krivsky informed Denorfia by phone about the deal, and the GM said the player was "numb" because players are rarely traded while on the disabled list.

reds44
04-27-2007, 10:15 PM
Also interesting.

"It had been discussed midway through Spring Training," Krivsky said. "Obviously, when Deno got hurt, it changed things for a while. [A's general manager Billy Beane] first approached us the first week in April after Deno's surgery and wanted to see if we were still interested. So this thing's been going on for a long time. But it took a little different twist after Deno got hurt.

"It speaks to how much they like Deno, and finally, it got to a point where what they were offering, we felt like it was a win-win for both of us."

Krivsky informed Denorfia by phone about the deal, and the GM said the player was "numb" because players are rarely traded while on the disabled list.
I hope we get something useful for him.

tsj017
04-27-2007, 10:18 PM
Chris Denorfia is the Bizarro Dave Revering

:laugh:

Now THAT'S funny! Good one!

Am I the only one that got the joke?

dsmith421
04-27-2007, 10:20 PM
He indicated both were close to being Major League-ready.

That should put us over the top.

dougdirt
04-27-2007, 10:24 PM
So one of the smartest GM's around keeps coming back to you about a guy that he wants so bad he ups his offer while the guy is on the DL and it doesnt strike you as odd that you couldnt even give the guy more than 3 weeks of playing time last season?

BTW, Im going with Donnie Murphy and Marcus McBeth.

dougdirt
04-27-2007, 10:24 PM
Also want to add, if McBeth is a part of the deal, I like it a lot more.

mth123
04-27-2007, 10:26 PM
So one of the smartest GM's around keeps coming back to you about a guy that he wants so bad he ups his offer while the guy is on the DL and it doesnt strike you as odd that you couldnt even give the guy more than 3 weeks of playing time last season?

BTW, Im going with Donnie Murphy and Marcus McBeth.

I was just looking at reports on McBeth. I hope you're right. McBeth would be a good return IMO.

RedEye
04-27-2007, 10:26 PM
Here, here! The thing I CANNOT believe is how he took that guy Hamilton, a druggie who had not played for for years, and that never above A ball. What a moron! Get rid of Wayne now!

It's not that Wayne never makes smart moves. It's just that his smart ones seem to always get canceled out by dumb ones. I think the Reds can do better.

Redmachine2003
04-27-2007, 10:27 PM
TJ on a position player isn't as bad a pitchers so I bet Deno will be playing by Aug. Heck the Reds are looking for EG to be back in the bullpen by Late June.

Matt700wlw
04-27-2007, 10:30 PM
TJ on a position player isn't as bad a pitchers so I bet Deno will be playing by Aug. Heck the Reds are looking for EG to be back in the bullpen by Late June.

Deno is out until October....


of course, he is Denorfia, a man who can heal lepers with the snap of his fingers.

reds44
04-27-2007, 10:32 PM
BTW, Im going with Donnie Murphy and Marcus McBeth.
What we would we do with Murphy?

Can he play the OF, or is he strictly a 2nd baseman? I, also like McBeth.

Falls City Beer
04-27-2007, 10:32 PM
Maj and Bray are "close" to the majors, too.

dougdirt
04-27-2007, 10:36 PM
What we would we do with Murphy?

Can he play the OF, or is he strictly a 2nd baseman? I, also like McBeth.

I have no idea what we would do with him.... but of the players who seemed to be MLB ready or close to it at AAA he was the only guy who made sense. The other guys with decent numbers were 28+ in age or one of the top 2 prospects that are in the A's system who I am sure wouldn't be apart of the trade.

mth123
04-27-2007, 10:40 PM
I have no idea what we would do with him.... but of the players who seemed to be MLB ready or close to it at AAA he was the only guy who made sense. The other guys with decent numbers were 28+ in age or one of the top 2 prospects that are in the A's system who I am sure wouldn't be apart of the trade.

Some other guesses:

Shane Komine?
Kevin Melillo?
Richie Robnett?

David Shafer;) ?

rotnoid
04-27-2007, 10:40 PM
From http://www.mlbtraderumors.com


Just playing matchmaker, but maybe one of the two players is starter Brad Halsey? He certainly wants out, and he's had moderate success in the NL before. Fay also mentioned that the A's have been interested in Denorfia since spring training and that another trade might be in the cards.


Desperation move, or can Halsey help the Reds now. If he's the guy does that change things? I haven't had a minute to look at Halsey's numbers, but an ML ready guy would certainly increase the value, at least IMO.

Falls City Beer
04-27-2007, 10:42 PM
From http://www.mlbtraderumors.com



Desperation move, or can Halsey help the Reds now. If he's the guy does that change things? I haven't had a minute to look at Halsey's numbers, but an ML ready guy would certainly increase the value, at least IMO.

Doesn't Halsey have some weird injury?

I don't mind Halsey, but he's got a bullpen ceiling, and won't likely make a bit of difference. Just another through the revolving door of mediocrity. I hope it's someone with a higher ceiling than Halsey.

KronoRed
04-27-2007, 10:43 PM
Maj and Bray are "close" to the majors, too.

:laugh: :laugh:

reds44
04-27-2007, 10:44 PM
Fay also mentioned that the A's have been interested in Denorfia since spring training and that another trade might be in the cards.
Something needs to be done.

I could see Halsey being a guy. He's only 26.

mth123
04-27-2007, 10:45 PM
From http://www.mlbtraderumors.com



Desperation move, or can Halsey help the Reds now. If he's the guy does that change things? I haven't had a minute to look at Halsey's numbers, but an ML ready guy would certainly increase the value, at least IMO.

Forgot about Halsey. Isn't he hurt too though? I thought his beef was that he was hurt and got sent down to further hurt his arm instead of collecting major league money on the DL.

rotnoid
04-27-2007, 10:48 PM
Forgot about Halsey. Isn't he hurt too though? I thought his beef was that he was hurt and got sent down to further hurt his arm instead of collecting major league money on the DL.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/fantasy?statsId=7356


Apr 24
News: Halsey, who was bypassed in favor of Dallas Braden to take over for Rich Harden in the A's rotation, ripped into A's management after being informed of the decision according to the San Francisco Chronicle.

Spin: Halsey claims that the A's knew about an upcoming MRI, and would have to pay Halsey a major league salary if he ended up on the DL after Tuesday's start. Among Halsey's comments were "It's all just a business decision, because if I came up and pitched Tuesday and then had an MRI and had to go on the DL, they'd have to pay me major-league DL money. It's such a mom-and-pop organization." He's not exactly pleased at the moment.

So, possibly hurt, but not for sure. He certainly weaves a good conspiracy theory. He'd fiit in well around here. ;)

edabbs44
04-27-2007, 10:51 PM
Forgot about Halsey. Isn't he hurt too though? I thought his beef was that he was hurt and got sent down to further hurt his arm instead of collecting major league money on the DL.

He's been complaining about his shoulder. Right up Wayne's alley.

edabbs44
04-27-2007, 10:52 PM
"On the one hand, we hate to give up Deno," Krivsky said. "He's been signed and through our Minor Leagues and is just a tremendous individual. He plays the game the right way and has tremendous makeup and was a real credit to the organization."

I cannot believe he gave him up.

Always Red
04-27-2007, 10:56 PM
:laugh:


Am I the only one that got the joke?

no

Always Red
04-27-2007, 10:57 PM
It's not that Wayne never makes smart moves. It's just that his smart ones seem to always get canceled out by dumb ones.

Wayne seems to be most comfortable out on both ends of the Bell curve...

Always Red
04-27-2007, 10:58 PM
of course, he is Denorfia, a man who can heal lepers with the snap of his fingers.

I'm gonna miss that....:D

Sea Ray
04-27-2007, 10:58 PM
What is accomplished by throwing Deno away for PTBNL? The kid was making league minimum and is superior to Hopper and possibly Freel if given the ABs.

I'm amazed at how many people dislike this trade. How can anyone judge it when you don't even know who the two players are?

The guy is on the DL so we're not losing anything in the immediate future. As for 2008 we'll have to wait and see.

This guy is going to be 28 years old before he takes another AB.He has next to no major league experience. He's right handed with very little "pop" . What's so rare about him?

edabbs44
04-27-2007, 10:59 PM
I cannot wait for Deno to get assigned a number so I can get an A's jersey.

edabbs44
04-27-2007, 11:00 PM
I'm amazed at how many people dislike this trade. How can anyone judge it when you don't even know who the two players are?

The guy is on the DL so we're not losing anything in the immediate future. As for 2008 we'll have to wait and see.

This guy is going to be 28 years old before he takes another AB.He has next to no major league experience. He's right handed with very little "pop" . What's so rare about him?

What's rare about him is that WK said that he plays the game the right way and the guy never got a shot. Q played the game the right way and he played. Usually you are a lock for ABs if you play the game the right way. Not Deno.

Always Red
04-27-2007, 11:01 PM
Brad Halsey, describing the Oakland A's:


It's such a mom-and-pop organization.

Boy, he's gonna love the Reds!

Sea Ray
04-27-2007, 11:02 PM
Has the Saarloos trade even been completed yet? Last I heard the A's owe us a player and we owe them a player. So is the updated tally that they owe us 3 guys and we owe them one?

Falls City Beer
04-27-2007, 11:02 PM
Brad Halsey, describing the Oakland A's:



Boy, he's gonna love the Reds!

:laugh: :cry:

Sea Ray
04-27-2007, 11:04 PM
What's rare about him is that WK said that he plays the game the right way and the guy never got a shot. Q played the game the right way and he played. Usually you are a lock for ABs if you play the game the right way. Not Deno.

If that's what's so rare about him, then we're covered. You just described Jeff Conine. You can pickup a Jeff Conine every year for next to nothing. What's so tricky about that?

Always Red
04-27-2007, 11:05 PM
If that's what's so rare about him, then we're covered. You just described Jeff Conine. You can pickup a Jeff Conine every year for next to nothing. What's so tricky about that?

Well, Deno is 14 years younger, but whatever...

reds44
04-27-2007, 11:05 PM
Reading the blogs on cincinnati.com, these are the two things I gathered from Fay and Trent.

-One of the PTBNL will be named tonight (which makes you wonder why they didn't just decide when they made the trade), and the other will come later in the year.
-Fay definatley said he was told by someone within the Reds organization that another move will come tonight, seperate from the trade.
-WayneK is in Chatanooga.

dougdirt
04-27-2007, 11:06 PM
If that's what's so rare about him, then we're covered. You just described Jeff Conine. You can pickup a Jeff Conine every year for next to nothing. What's so tricky about that?

He forgot to add that he gets on base well, has above average speed, plays great defense.

dougdirt
04-27-2007, 11:07 PM
Reading the blogs on cincinnati.com, these are the two things I gathered from Fay and Trent.

-One of the PTBNL will be named tonight (which makes you wonder why they didn't just decide when they made the trade), and the other will come later in the year.
-Fay definatley said he was told by someone within the Reds organization that another move will come tonight, seperate from the trade.
-WayneK is in Chatanooga.

I assume that the player was playing in a game tonight, and therefore would have had to be removed from the game if he were traded.

REDREAD
04-27-2007, 11:09 PM
I really wonder what the motivation to do this now is? Seems odd.


My guess is that Wayne never liked Deno's game. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but I had the feeling that Deno was never really in the Reds' plans.

After the trade, Wayne proclaimed it was "Deno's time", but after a short audition, he was buried on the bench. Even late in the season, when Freel vanished, Deno did not get any playing time.

I think Deno was healthy at the end of 2006.. but maybe I'm forgeting an injury.

HumnHilghtFreel
04-27-2007, 11:09 PM
I'm on the fence. I was never one to jump on the Deno is superhuman bandwagon, but I do realize that he had some potential value(teams like the Marlins were jocking for him quite a bit, no?).

If we get even a marginal return, I'll probably be satisfied, as I don't feel he had a place on this team.

Shaknb8k
04-27-2007, 11:13 PM
This is why i love baseball.... coming off a loss less than an hour ago and ive already moved on to something else. Its never ending. If your team loses then the next day you got something else to think about. In this case less than an hour later. I love baseball

By the way could that other move fay was talking about just be sending someone down to make room for a new player?

flyer85
04-27-2007, 11:14 PM
I remember in ST when Olney reported the As were interested in Deno.

My question is why can't they announce the PTBNLs unless the Reds don't want to them because they need to clear roster spots.

oneupper
04-27-2007, 11:14 PM
I am one sad REDS fan tonight.

Deno was (is) the prototypical blue collar underdog that you can root for. Drafted low...performed at every level...paid his dues...gets a half-assed shot (if you can call it that), goes down with an injury and gets traded...

WK might have made the trade, but I'd wager that Narron egged him on...

"Trade him, Wayne...I'm not going to play him"

:barf: :barf: :barf:

I really dislike Jerry Narron tonight.

SirFelixCat
04-27-2007, 11:14 PM
Getting anything at all, for an injured outfielder, with no chance to break into the starting lineup, is a positive in my mind.

It is obvious neither Narron or WK thought much of him. At least this way, the team gets something in return, instead of Deno rotting in AAA.

Could they have traded him for something better, perhaps. But either way, he never would have had the chance to do anything for the Reds. There is no way to raise the trade value of an injured outfielder, that has fallen out of favor with the organization.


Agree 100%. Very well said.

reds44
04-27-2007, 11:15 PM
By the way could that other move fay was talking about just be sending someone down to make room for a new player?
I don't think so. IMO, he seemed to imply it wasn't realted to the Deno trade.

thatcoolguy_22
04-27-2007, 11:17 PM
article on Marcus McBeth

http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070306/NEWS/703060350/1013/SPORT0401

hippie07
04-27-2007, 11:18 PM
Looks like they already know who it is ... close to major league ready
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070427&content_id=1933650&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

Marc D
04-27-2007, 11:18 PM
I hope we get McBeth just so I can hear Grande say....

"McBeth, you know his story"

Sea Ray
04-27-2007, 11:21 PM
He forgot to add that he gets on base well, has above average speed, plays great defense.


His OBP is nearly identical to Conine's. He does have superior speed and
OF defense, yet Conine has considerably more power.

I'm not saying I'd trade Denorfia for Conine. What I'm saying is what Denorfia brings you is not much more than what we're currently getting from Jeff Conine who is an average talent at best.

My point is this: Denorfia is a talent that we could have used in 2008 and beyond, but he's certainly replaceable should we be offered something of value for him. Let's see who we're getting before souring on this deal.

flyer85
04-27-2007, 11:23 PM
I really don't see anyone the As are likely to send that will help this team out of their current situation

Royals Fan
04-27-2007, 11:23 PM
Just an ideal the A's game is on MLB package tonight, maybe someone can monitor there broadcast and see it they mentioned anything on the trade.

OesterPoster
04-27-2007, 11:24 PM
A's fans are speculating too, and more than one person has mentioned Halsey...with his MRI results being the holdup.


I'm guessing Halsey, Windsor, and/or Komine is involved. The other player could be Denham. The 3 day wait could be for Halsey's MRI results.

thatcoolguy_22
04-27-2007, 11:25 PM
I hope we get McBeth just so I can hear Grande say....

"McBeth, you know his story"

:laugh: :laugh:

Dracodave
04-27-2007, 11:25 PM
I really can't see a downside to this trade...

We lost Deno, but if we gain two players that are just as good and cash, can we complain? Expecially if one of those players is a catcher, a glaring weakness.\


Windsor?


Windsor is a big-bodied pitcher, with a build similar to a Kevin Millwood. He uses an over-the-top arm slot to release his pitches and repeats his delivery well. Despite his over-the-top delivery, Windsor hides the ball well, as he holds it almost behind his leg before bringing it into a throwing position.

Windsor has four pitches, a fastball that sits in the mid-to-high 80s with good movement, a big 12-6 curveball with similar action to that of A’s reliever Justin Duchscherer (although he doesn’t throw it with nearly as much accuracy as Duke does at the moment), an average slider and an outstanding change-up that works to keep hitters off of his average-ish fastball.

Windsor has had good to great control throughout his minor league career and has maintained an excellent strikeout to innings pitched ratio throughout his minor league career. Some within the A’s organization have compared Windsor to current A’s fourth starter Joe Blanton and they have a similar pitching arsenal. However, Windsor has consistently struck out more batters per inning than Blanton did in his minor league career, so that could bode well for Windsor, as Blanton has, at times, struggled to avoid contact in the major leagues.

In terms of make-up, Windsor grades at the top of the scale. He has been a big-game pitcher throughout his career, especially when he was in college, where Windsor not only won big post-season games for the Titans, but also came-up big in a number of late-season Big West Conference contests.

Windsor has had little trouble adjusting to new levels of competition as he has progressed through the A’s system and the only period of struggle he has encountered in the minors was in the second half of last season when he was pitching through shoulder soreness.

Windsor does not have Rich Harden-fireball stuff, so he will need to maintain his pinpoint control to find success at the major league level. However, the A’s have had success with “soft-tossing” control pitchers over the past few years, with Duchscherer and Blanton being two recent success stories.

Windsor turned 24 on Sunday so he should be just entering his prime years for pitching. He will have a tough assignment for his first outing, taking on the potent Baltimore Orioles offense at the hitter-friendly Camden Yards on Monday. If he has success on Monday, Windsor could be a big factor for the A’s during the second half of the season, especially since

flyer85
04-27-2007, 11:26 PM
A's fans are speculating too, and more than one person has mentioned Halsey...with his MRI results being the holdup.that shouldn't be a problem.:p: We already got similar types to Halsey in Dumatrait and Livingston.

thatcoolguy_22
04-27-2007, 11:28 PM
I really can't see a downside to this trade...

We lost Deno, but if we gain two players that are just as good and cash, can we complain? Expecially if one of those players is a catcher, a glaring weakness.

I hope somehow under the wire the A's managed to work out a deal with Godzilla's agent and we are going to pick him up. From what I understand He can play dominant RF and when an umpire calls him out on a pitch he doesn't agree with he just eats them. Now THAT would be a good trade but, half the people on redszone would still be upset about losing the next in line to the pope and over the fact that godzilla probably can't bunt

dougdirt
04-27-2007, 11:28 PM
His OBP is nearly identical to Conine's. He does have superior speed and
OF defense, yet Conine has considerably more power.

I'm not saying I'd trade Denorfia for Conine. What I'm saying is what Denorfia brings you is not much more than what we're currently getting from Jeff Conine who is an average talent at best.

My point is this: Denorfia is a talent that we could have used in 2008 and beyond, but he's certainly replaceable should we be offered something of value for him. Let's see who we're getting before souring on this deal.

I am not soured on the deal just yet. Will be interesting to see who we get. That said though, Deno was making around the league minimum and Conine was making about 4 times at. Of course you said they have a similar OBP... Denorfia has a .358 MLB OBP, Conine has been at or higher than that 1 time in the last 5 seasons. So I dont really think the two players are all that close in that department.

Ltlabner
04-27-2007, 11:29 PM
Wayne has officially been washed ashore--he's flailing like a parched fish to get back in the drink.

It's gotten downright sad. He really needs to go.

Yet, if he didn't make a move you'd be railing that he's blind to the iceberg dead ahead. I'd hardly call trading a guy who obviously wasn't part of the teams plans "flailing". You can argue over whether he should be part of the teams plans or not, but if they don't have much use for him, why not trade him?


Jeremy Bonderman, Scott Podsednik, Coco Crisp, Moises Alou, Jason Schmidt, and David Ortiz -- all PTBNL at some point.

Let's reserve the whining and moaning about who they are until we know WHO THEY ARE.

Stop it will all that reason and stuff.


It does seem to me that this doesn't signal any intention by the Reds to move Griffey or Dunn anytime soon.

Agree totally.


Wouldn't you want to wait and see who we get in return before you decide that?

So we can get all worked up before we know who the PTBNL's are, but don't give Wayne any credit because we don't know who the PTBNL's are? Seems evenhanded.

M2
04-27-2007, 11:29 PM
I'll guess it's Jason Windsor with Ben Jukich being the guy who comes over in the summer (got to assume it's someone from the 2006 draft).

thatcoolguy_22
04-27-2007, 11:33 PM
I'll guess it's Jason Windsor with Ben Jukich being the guy who comes over in the summer (got to assume it's someone from the 2006 draft).

I'm guessing Windsor as well but, only because McBeth would make too much sense and what we need is another soft tossing pitcher that must rely on pinpoint control...

KoryMac5
04-27-2007, 11:33 PM
The A's have to rely on scouting and good drafts in order to keep winning consistently. Anytime you can make a trade with an organization like that you know you will be receiving a couple of good ball players in return. I will hold judgement until I know who we are getting.

Patrick Bateman
04-27-2007, 11:33 PM
Santiago Casilla and Marcus Mcbeth could be interesting arms.

reds44
04-27-2007, 11:35 PM
Widnsor (24) and Halsey (26) and Komine (26) are all young.

Komine is only 5-9 (175), but probably has the best stuff of the bunch. He throws hard and has one of the best curves in the A's system.

Windsor is 6-2 (235) and features some decent stuff.

Halsey is 6-1 (185) and is a lefty. He doesn't have a real good slider, and doesn't have much of a curve.

Honestly, all 3 of those guys interest me. All of them are young, which is a welcomed change, and all seem to have some good qualities.

RedEye
04-27-2007, 11:36 PM
I hope somehow under the wire the A's managed to work out a deal with Godzilla's agent and we are going to pick him up. From what I understand He can play dominant RF and when an umpire calls him out on a pitch he doesn't agree with he just eats them. Now THAT would be a good trade but, half the people on redszone would still be upset about losing the next in line to the pope and over the fact that godzilla probably can't bunt

You're right about Godzilla... he lacks the fine motor skills to lay one down. That's why I was rooting for fellow A's minor leaguer King Kong. Although he doesn't have the same fire, Kong is a legitimate five-tool player. His power stroke has been compared to Rob Deer and Sam Horn, and he's also a great clubhouse presence. Occasional temper tantrums and broken batting cages, but he's solid.

REDREAD
04-27-2007, 11:38 PM
that shouldn't be a problem.:p: We already got similar types to Halsey in Dumatrait and Livingston.

Let's hope Doc Hollywood actually looks at the medical record before the trade is consumated this time. :lol:


I'm going to wait for the PTBNL before judging this. I never thought much of Deno.. sure, he shouldn't be given away, but I see him as a 4th OF at best.. not worth crying over.

Maybe Frenchie gets moved/released as part of the second move??

reds44
04-27-2007, 11:40 PM
Santiago Casilla and Marcus Mcbeth could be interesting arms.

Casilla (27) is 6 foot even (200), and is formerly known as Jose Garcia. Suffered from Mark Prior disease last year with a sore shoulder, but nothing was structurely wrong with him. He's probably the least favorite of the names mentioned here.

McBeth (26) 6-2 (183), and is a converted outfielder. He has a mid-90s fastball and is working on a slider. He has a + changeup. He had 65 Ks in 54 innings in AA last year before being called up to AAA.

jesusfan
04-27-2007, 11:40 PM
Give me Komine and Windsor or McBeth and I'll be happy...

Falls City Beer
04-27-2007, 11:41 PM
McBeth: Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow.

Perfect.

Strikes Out Looking
04-27-2007, 11:42 PM
The cash part of the deal makes me think its someone on the ML roster--why would the A's pay cash to send the Reds 2 minor leaguers that would, at most, make the ML minimum this year?

reds44
04-27-2007, 11:42 PM
McBeth: Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow.

Perfect.
I'd love to have McBeth and either Komnie or Windsor. We'll probably end up with Halsey and Casilla with our luck.

Dracodave
04-27-2007, 11:43 PM
I'll throw in Saarloss...if we can get better prospects..

Stingray
04-27-2007, 11:45 PM
Two points:

1. How bad the can the A's upper level farm system be if they couldn't find a place on their "40" for Jared Burton?

2. Windsor seems unlikely, if his fastball is under 90, in light of WK'S recent comment that all our bullpen(except Coffey) had similar stuff(slow).

Dracodave
04-27-2007, 11:46 PM
Two points:

1. How bad the can the A's upper level farm system be if they couldn't find a place on their "40" for Jared Burton?

2. Windsor seems unlikely, if his fast is under 90, in light of WK'S recent comment that all our bullpen(except Coffey) had similar stuff(slow).

Which makes me think, it's a ML reliever who throws hard..and a minor league near mlb ready pitcher..Could be both McBeth and Komine.