PDA

View Full Version : The Cardinals Starting Rotation



PuffyPig
04-28-2007, 05:45 PM
There was much debate before the season started as to the state of the cardinals rotation vs. the Reds rotation.

Some posters stated that the Cards rotation would be just fine, because, while they had some possible weakness in the 4-5 spots, they had the top 1-3 spots "locked-down" with Carpenter, Wainwright and Reyes.

Now, Crpenter has an ERA of 7.50, but he's been injured. If he healthy he should be just fine. We'll have a better idea tomorrow when we see if he has any swelling from his bullpen session today. If he has swelling, it wouldn't surprise me if he goes under the knife and misses 2 minths +.

Wainwright started off the season getting good results even though his DIPS ERA was always higher. lately though he just piching really bad. his K's are down, his walks are up, and his ERA has now reached 6.14.

Ryes has had 4 starts , 4 losses, with an ERA of 5.73. he's actually looked a little better than that, as he generally has 1 bad inning per game, but it's usually really bad. He's K's quite a few, but gives up lots of HR's.

Wells is 1-4 with an ERA of 4.70. He started off well, but has piched very badly lately. he's also giving up HR's.

Looper has pitched an ERA of 1.91, though he hasn't pitched really that well, with a DIPS ERA of 3.90. There's nothing wrong with that.

Keisler really sucked and is gone. No one knows who will start in his place Tuesday, but it won't be Carpenter. Maybe Hancock or Thompson.

Meanwhile, our worst starter sports a DIPS ERA which would rank 2nd on the Cards rotation (4.53 Milton).

As long as our starting rotation keeps pitching close to this well, we still have a chance. it's always easier to get the offense going.

savafan
04-28-2007, 05:53 PM
A chance against St. Louis, yes. However, those aren't your daddy's Milwaukee Brewers.



Editor's Note: Your daddy's Milwaukee Brewers played in the American League. ;)

oneupper
04-28-2007, 05:55 PM
Editor's Note: Your daddy's Milwaukee Brewers played in the American League. ;)

...and they sucked most of the time...:D

Falls City Beer
04-28-2007, 06:06 PM
Couple of points:

1. Yes, parts of the Cards' rotation are struggling. But their biggest part is hurt.

2. I'm not all that sold on the Brewers.

dsmith421
04-28-2007, 06:12 PM
St. Louis also has a pitching coach with a history of coaxing good performance out of mediocre pitchers.

OnBaseMachine
04-28-2007, 06:38 PM
Adam Wainwright is one of the most overrated pitching prospects I've seen in a while. I said before the season he would fail as a starter. Reyes is also very overrated. Kip Wells is Kip Wells. Carpenter is a great pitcher but he's hurt right now.

The Cardinals are a below average team. Their rotation is bad and the offense is pitiful. The Milwaukee Brewers are far and away the best team in the NL Central.

Falls City Beer
04-28-2007, 09:59 PM
Adam Wainwright is one of the most overrated pitching prospects I've seen in a while. I said before the season he would fail as a starter. Reyes is also very overrated. Kip Wells is Kip Wells. Carpenter is a great pitcher but he's hurt right now.

The Cardinals are a below average team. Their rotation is bad and the offense is pitiful. The Milwaukee Brewers are far and away the best team in the NL Central.

The Brewers are riding their offense almost exclusively (it is a very good offense). But their pitching is a huge question mark. After tonight, they have a negative run differential. 107-112. They're not a great team.

Through 24 games, the Reds have allowed 104 runs.

Through 23 games the Cards have allowed 104 runs.

Falls City Beer
04-28-2007, 11:15 PM
After tonight's win, the Reds offense has scored 100 runs--squarely a middle of the pack offense. At least in the NL.

VR
04-28-2007, 11:23 PM
The Brewers are riding their offense almost exclusively (it is a very good offense). But their pitching is a huge question mark. After tonight, they have a negative run differential. 107-112. They're not a great team.

Through 24 games, the Reds have allowed 104 runs.

Through 23 games the Cards have allowed 104 runs.

Starting rotation?

Falls City Beer
04-28-2007, 11:26 PM
Starting rotation?

Not sure I understand the question.

Patrick Bateman
04-28-2007, 11:48 PM
After tonight's win, the Reds offense has scored 100 runs--squarely a middle of the pack offense. At least in the NL.


Gee, those 7 extra runs the Brewers (more than the Reds) have scored make them a very good offensive team.

Falls City Beer
04-28-2007, 11:54 PM
Gee, those 7 extra runs the Brewers (more than the Reds) have scored make them a very good offensive team.

They do have a good offense. But if you'll remember correctly, I've been contending for a long time that the Reds' offense isn't the problem with the team. So I didn't drag the Reds' offensive numbers out to denigrate the offense. I happen to think the Brewers' offense is better, but not by a bunch. I think the Reds' and Brewers' pitching staffs are pretty comparable.

And I think the Cards miss Carpenter desperately.

Ron Madden
04-29-2007, 12:06 AM
After tonight's win, the Reds offense has scored 100 runs--squarely a middle of the pack offense. At least in the NL.

For all the heat Adam Dunn takes he is responsible for 25 of those 100 runs the Reds have scored.

15 runs scored

10 RBI

OnBaseMachine
04-29-2007, 12:07 AM
They do have a good offense. But if you'll remember correctly, I've been contending for a long time that the Reds' offense isn't the problem with the team. So I didn't drag the Reds' offensive numbers out to denigrate the offense. I happen to think the Brewers' offense is better, but not by a bunch. I think the Reds' and Brewers' pitching staffs are pretty comparable.

And I think the Cards miss Carpenter desperately.

Even with Carpenter healthy, the Cardinals pitching staff still stinks.

Patrick Bateman
04-29-2007, 12:16 AM
They do have a good offense. But if you'll remember correctly, I've been contending for a long time that the Reds' offense isn't the problem with the team. So I didn't drag the Reds' offensive numbers out to denigrate the offense. I happen to think the Brewers' offense is better, but not by a bunch. I think the Reds' and Brewers' pitching staffs are pretty comparable.



I know, just poking fun there. You have been a propenent that the offense is decent, but not great. And I would agree with that.

Even with that, I do think that the offense has more room to improve than they have of declining.

EE should hit, and Ross will be more than absolute trash. I doubt he's much more than a .730-750 OPS type of guy, but he's far better than he's shown. Plus I have really liked Griffey's approach at the plate thus far. I think in the games he does play, he has a chance to be a .900 OPS level guy.

On the flipside, the only spots that I expect a decreased amount of production are from Hamilton and the 1st base combo, but even there I think Hamilton looks like a stud, albeit probably not to the level of his current pace.

jmac
04-29-2007, 12:29 AM
For all the heat Adam Dunn takes he is responsible for 25 of those 100 runs the Reds have scored.

15 runs scored

10 RBI

Maybe I am off on this here but say the Reds win 2-0 with Dunn getting a two run hr.
Dunn gets 2 rbi and 1 run scored but the reds only score 2 so he didnt account for 3 of our 2 runs, right ?
I say that because if he hits 5 hrs then when you figure the hr and the run scored,it didnt actually account for 25,right ?

Ravenlord
04-29-2007, 12:40 AM
For all the heat Adam Dunn takes he is responsible for 25 of those 100 runs the Reds have scored.

15 runs scored

10 RBI

Dunn's actually created 14.3 runs this season. Hatte and Conine have combined for 15.6. Hamilton has 14.4.

Ron Madden
04-29-2007, 12:45 AM
My Bad. :redface:

Thanks Ravenlord.

VR
04-29-2007, 12:51 AM
Not sure I understand the question.


What have the Cards starters allowed in runs vs. Reds starters

PuffyPig
04-29-2007, 10:47 AM
What have the Cards starters allowed in runs vs. Reds starters

The Reds starters are ranked 3rd, 3.44. THey have a 111-31 K/W ratio, best in the league.

The Cards starters are ranked 13th, 4.72. They have a 84-49 K/W ratio., 4th worst in the league.

VR
04-29-2007, 11:12 AM
THey have a 111-31 K/W ratio, best in the league.


I mentioned in another thread that this is such a promising stat, and very anti-Red circa 2000-2006.

Patrick Bateman
04-29-2007, 01:06 PM
I mentioned in another thread that this is such a promising stat, and very anti-Red circa 2000-2006.


Pitching staffs with K/W ratios of 2-1 or better, are generally in the top half in ERA.

Staffs with ratios below 2-1, are generally in the lower half.

TeamSelig
04-29-2007, 03:05 PM
I think our offense has the potential to go from middle of the park to the upper part.

If EdE can start hitting, and maybe Ross. No one for the Reds is completely overperforming right now, so I could see an upgrade in RS as the season goes on. (you could probably argue that Hamilton might not keep it up)

Anyone think our rotation will keep up this great start?

Stingray
04-29-2007, 04:09 PM
[QUOTE Anyone think our rotation will keep up this great start?[/QUOTE]

Probably not, but, there's room to hope. Bronson Arroyo and Aaron Harang should at least match their performance thus far. Matt Belisle and Loshe are questions but it's not beyond reason they could match their start. Milton's another question, but, if he doesn't pitch as well as he has so far his replacement very well could.

Marc D
04-29-2007, 04:19 PM
Anyone think our rotation will keep up this great start?


I certainly don't see it being all smoke and mirrors as it has in the past.

They don't walk many, they strike out a lot of hitters, keep the ball in the park and (milton aside) pitch a lot of innings per start.

Most here said all off season the offense would go as EE and Dunn went so its no suprise to me the offense heats up as EE (BP and Ross to a degree as well) does.

3 things not working in April were the pen, the defense and the RH hitters. I'm not super positive on this teams chances but even I know the D and the RH hitters are likely to improve.

The pen, not so much.

TeamSelig
04-29-2007, 10:28 PM
I agree that our starting pitching will do pretty good this year.

I could see Harang and Arroyo having good years (maybe not quite like last years but close) with Lohse and Belisle putting up a low to mid 4 ERA, and Milton keeping it in the high 4s... thats really not too bad IMO

Plus, if there are injuries we always have Saarloos, Livingston, Ramirez, etc. who all have the potential to throw some decent innings

westofyou
05-28-2007, 10:52 AM
One day after conceding concern about winless starting pitcher Anthony Reyes, the Cardinals on Sunday optioned their former top prospect to Class AAA Memphis, promoted lefthander Troy Cate and moved recent waiver claim Todd Wellemeyer from the bullpen into Reyes' rotation slot.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/8AEE9C1940363C55862572E90012B9E7?OpenDocument

OnBaseMachine
05-28-2007, 10:56 AM
I've said it before, Anothony Reyes has always been very overrated. The guy has did absolutely nothing in the majors. Same goes for Adam Wainwright. Guy had a good year out of the bullpen and everyone thinks he's the next big thing. I predicted he would struggle as a starter and so far he has (5.59 ERA, 1.79 WHIP, .864 OPSA).