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GriffeyFan
04-29-2007, 12:45 PM
Current St. Louis Cardinal pitcher and former Red Josh Hancock was killed in an auto accident.

I haven't seen a print story on it yet but Peter Gammons just reported it on ESPN.

It happened last night.

Cards/Cubs game cancelled tonight.

TeamDunn
04-29-2007, 12:47 PM
That is horrible. :(

Thoughts and prayers to his family, friends and fellow players. :(

The Cards and Cubs were playing each other when Darryl Kyle died. What are the odds? :(

Falls City Beer
04-29-2007, 12:54 PM
Good lord. How awful. Just incredibly sad.

Tom Servo
04-29-2007, 12:59 PM
Wow. What terrible, terrible news. :(


My condolences to Josh's family and those around him.

NJReds
04-29-2007, 12:59 PM
RIP Josh.

Larkin Fan
04-29-2007, 01:04 PM
Absolutely awful news. My thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-cardinals-hancockkilled&prov=ap&type=lgns


Cardinals reliever Josh Hancock killed in car crash

April 29, 2007

ST. LOUIS (AP) -- Josh Hancock, a key member of the bullpen that helped the St. Louis Cardinals win the World Series last season, was killed in a car crash early Sunday.

The Cardinals said they were told of the 29-year-old reliever's death by the St. Louis Police Department. The team's home game against the Chicago Cubs on Sunday night was postponed.

The team said the accident happened in St. Louis, but no other details were disclosed. The Cardinals and police are expected to make a statement this afternoon at Busch Stadium.

Hancock has pitched for four major league clubs. He went 3-3 in 62 regular-season appearances for the Cardinals last season and pitched in three postseason games. He was 0-1 with a 3.55 ERA in eight games this season.

Hancock joined the Cardinals before the 2006 season. He has pitched for Boston, Philadelphia and Cincinnati.

guttle11
04-29-2007, 01:10 PM
Oh my goodness, that's terrible. RIP Josh.

Redsland
04-29-2007, 01:10 PM
Wow. :(

Swampturkey
04-29-2007, 01:12 PM
I don't even know what to say really. We (Cards players and fans) had to go through this not even 5 years ago.

My heart goes out to everyone who knew Josh Hancock, but in particular to LaRussa, Duncan, Isringhausen, Pujols, and Edmonds, the few remaining Cardinals who were here when this happened to Darryl Kile.

Rest in Peace, Josh Hancock. You will be missed.

Wheelhouse
04-29-2007, 01:17 PM
Dreadful.

savafan
04-29-2007, 01:19 PM
And now we've lost two former Reds pitchers in back to back years, Cory Lidle and Josh Hancock. So two have Phillie fans.

Watching the Reds-Cards game on FSN the other night, when Hancock came in to pitch, and pitched pretty well, against the Reds, listening to Welsh talk about how far he's come, and how valuable a member of the Cardinals pitching staff he is due to his durability, who would have thought that now this...?

RIP Josh.

Patrick Bateman
04-29-2007, 01:21 PM
Very sad news.

Hancock was my favorite Cardinal. I remember him pitching some very nice games for the Reds and was dissapointed to see him go to the opposition.

Gallen5862
04-29-2007, 01:22 PM
RIP Josh! My prayers and thoughts to his family and friends.

cumberlandreds
04-29-2007, 01:25 PM
Very sad and terrible. Way too young to die. RIP Josh Hancock.

Boss-Hog
04-29-2007, 01:30 PM
Very sad news news. May he rest in peace.

smith288
04-29-2007, 01:35 PM
Lord, give those close to Josh the strength to deal with their tragedy. Horrible to hear this.

WVRed
04-29-2007, 01:40 PM
ESPN Radio said LaRussa had to break the news to Hancock's father. I wouldn't even want to imagine what that would be like. Did LaRussa have to do the same with Darryl Kile?

My thoughts and prayers are with the Cardinals, their fans, and the Hancock family and everybody who knew him.

KoryMac5
04-29-2007, 01:50 PM
It's a sad day indeed.

GOOCH
04-29-2007, 01:53 PM
It's a sad day for the Cardinals, Reds, and the rest of Josh's family & friends. Requisat in Pacem, Josh. We'll miss you. D.GOOCH

Spring~Fields
04-29-2007, 02:01 PM
This is really sad and disturbing.

TeamBoone
04-29-2007, 02:06 PM
Oh man, this gave me goosebumps. This kind of news always does... I guess somewhere in the recesses of our brains, we tend to think of these young guys as indestructable... at least I do.

How horrible; just horrible.

Wishes to his family and friends on having to deal with such a disaster.

He was with the Reds for two years (04 and 05?) so I'm sure there are players on the team who were friends of his.

KronoRed
04-29-2007, 02:19 PM
:( RIP Josh

Hooligan
04-29-2007, 02:37 PM
Rip

TC81190
04-29-2007, 02:42 PM
I saw "Former Red Josh Hancock..." from the index page, and I thought, cool he pitched a no-hitter or something...not the case.


:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Swampturkey
04-29-2007, 03:34 PM
ESPN Radio said LaRussa had to break the news to Hancock's father. I wouldn't even want to imagine what that would be like. Did LaRussa have to do the same with Darryl Kile?

My thoughts and prayers are with the Cardinals, their fans, and the Hancock family and everybody who knew him.

No, former Cardinal Dave Veres' wife told Kile's wife of his death nearly 5 years ago. Kile's wife had been trying to get ahold of him all that morning as were many of the Cardinals players, so Veres' wife got security to go up to his room and heard the news.

Walt Jocketty (Cards GM) did have to make the positive ID of Kile back in 02 though.

Local media said that several of the Cardinals brass offered to make the call to Hancock's father, but LaRussa told them he wanted to do it. Tough thing to do. I would never wish that on anyone.

reds1869
04-29-2007, 04:09 PM
Terrible news. I was so happy for Hancock watching him pitch against us last week. Prayers to his family.

RFS62
04-29-2007, 05:26 PM
Terrible, terrible news.

RIP Josh.

Swampturkey
04-29-2007, 05:59 PM
They just held the brief Press conference on the local channels here in St. Louis. I'm sure there will be something written about it soon, but here are is what I can remember...

DeWitt says that the pain they are feeling is "unbearable."

Jocketty says that the team will be wearing a patch on the sleeve of their jersey's from here on out and some sort of tribute to Hancock will be visible in the bullpen upon the team's return on Friday.

The entire team has been invited to the funeral so they will be chartering a flight to Josh Hancock's home town for the funeral which will be held on Thursday.

LaRussa just mentioned how the team got together a short time ago just to talk about Josh and share memories. Said they are all in a great deal of pain and it will be something they will be dealing with for a long time.

Chief of Police Joe Mokwa(sp) says they have accident reconstruction teams working on this and they are trying to recreate Hancock's last few hours leading up to the crash. Said there was no evidence of alcohol in the car but they do not know anything else besides that. Also, Hancock did not appear to be exceeding the speed limit and the tow truck driver said that Hancock did make an attempt to avoid the crash, but it was too late and he just couldn't get away from it.

They do believe that Josh Hancock died instantly so it does not appear he suffered any

Swampturkey
04-29-2007, 06:00 PM
Another Cards fan who watched the press conference added this over at St. Louis Sports Forum...

>> One thing Tony La Russa said was that Josh was loved because he was fun to be around, and because he took on difficult assignments out of the pen, like coming in and pitching when the team was far behind aka yesterday, always without complaining<<

MrCinatit
04-29-2007, 08:11 PM
My thoughts go to his family and teammates.
Rest in peace, Josh.

Unassisted
04-29-2007, 08:32 PM
Chief of Police Joe Mokwa(sp) says they have accident reconstruction teams working on this and they are trying to recreate Hancock's last few hours leading up to the crash. Said there was no evidence of alcohol in the car but they do not know anything else besides that. Also, Hancock did not appear to be exceeding the speed limit and the tow truck driver said that Hancock did make an attempt to avoid the crash, but it was too late and he just couldn't get away from it.

Could be a case of inattention while talking or texting on a phone or "tuning" around on an MP3 player. There are so many distractions to be found in a vehicle today.

Doesn't make this any less sad if it is, but at least a high-profile case of distracted driving would help convince people to pay more attention to their primary task behind the wheel.

Blimpie
04-29-2007, 09:04 PM
On eBay right now, there are 311 "Josh Hancock items" listed for sale. 302 of those items were advertised today....

Sad.

butlerbulldogs
04-29-2007, 09:08 PM
On eBay right now, there are 311 "Josh Hancock items" listed for sale. 302 of those items were advertised today....

Sad.

people always trying to capitalize, but i guess it works for them b/c you looked it up

it is sad

RIP HANCOCK

OnBaseMachine
04-29-2007, 10:41 PM
Cincinnati pitcher David Weathers: "When I found out this morning, it was just, 'Man, 29 years old.' The kid's got his whole life ahead of him, and for this to happen ... Me and my wife were in St. Louis with my kids and we talked to him for about 30 minutes. We ran into him in the mall and just sat down and had a great conversation, and that's the thing she and I were talking about this morning. Just, 'Wow.' It is really tragic. My heart goes out to his family. The last thing you want is a phone call that your son's passed away. Just a tough day. And you can't get it out of your mind. Every time I see his picture up there, it's like it's not even real. It's so similar to Darryl Kile. I mean, the same teams were playing and all that. It's tough.

"Obviously, when he was driving his car last night, he wasn't expecting that, and like I said this morning, one thing I always try to prepare my life for is you never know when that day's coming. You [have] got to be ready for it. The people left behind are never prepared for it. It's just heart-breaking, it really is."

Cincinnati outfielder Adam Dunn: "You can't put it into words. Whether it's a guy you've never run across or a guy you used to play with, regardless of who it is, it's sad."

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070429&content_id=1937852&vkey=news_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl

IslandRed
04-29-2007, 11:45 PM
I heard the news today while driving around town with the family. The report started out something like, "Tragic news from Major League Baseball. Josh Ha-"

In the time it took to say the announcer to say "Josh Ha-", my blood pressure went up about 50 points. It went back down upon hearing "-ncock," after which I felt guilty for being happy that it wasn't Josh Hamilton, as if Hancock's life is worth any less because he doesn't play for my favorite baseball team anymore. I guess that's natural, but I still felt crappy about it.

Rest in peace, Josh.

TeamDunn
04-29-2007, 11:54 PM
It took a second for it to register with me that it was not Josh Hamilton as well.

Swampturkey
04-30-2007, 12:30 AM
I heard the news today while driving around town with the family. The report started out something like, "Tragic news from Major League Baseball. Josh Ha-"

In the time it took to say the announcer to say "Josh Ha-", my blood pressure went up about 50 points. It went back down upon hearing "-ncock," after which I felt guilty for being happy that it wasn't Josh Hamilton, as if Hancock's life is worth any less because he doesn't play for my favorite baseball team anymore. I guess that's natural, but I still felt crappy about it.

Rest in peace, Josh.

I feel guilty as well because I'm a Cardinals fan who at many point after Kile died and now after today, I caught myself wishing not that it had happened to someone else, but that it hadn't happened to one of MY guys. One of MY Cardinals. I love this team. I'm a season ticket holder so I go to a ton of games. I see these players more than some of my own family who lives out of state. They're important to me. It's like they're family. One of my family members just died. That's how I feel right now. But since I, as a fan of the Cardinals, have been through this before, I know it will get better and the saddness will fade into more joyful memories of Hancock's career, in particular him helping to bring me my first world championship of my life time. I won't forget that.

redsmetz
04-30-2007, 10:11 AM
I was fortunate in that I only heard an ambigous comment during the NFL draft reports about "the tragedy" with Josh Hancock. I suspected it was fairly bad, but was hoping it wasn't what it was.

Ltlabner
04-30-2007, 10:25 AM
Oh man, this gave me goosebumps. This kind of news always does... I guess somewhere in the recesses of our brains, we tend to think of these young guys as indestructable... at least I do..

Exactly how I feal. I have this repressed idea that these men are marvels getting to play ball for a living. Even the worst player, on the worst team, or the most dispised player by RZ has about a billion times more baseball tallent than I have. The players do take on an indestructable quality as they bounce around their own personal "fields of dreams". So when something like this happens, or it's made perfectly clear that the hero is actual a human with foilbes and short commings it's pretty shocking.

Sad story. Here's to his family and loved ones.

TeamSelig
05-01-2007, 02:07 AM
Just saw on ESPN that someone reported that they saw him drinking alcohol before he crashed

kbrake
05-01-2007, 02:47 AM
I think it will come back that alcohol was probably involved. I hope its not so, but for me it doesnt change much. I feel horrible for his family, I feel bad for the Cards even though I didnt think that was really possible. RIP Josh and bless his family in this horrible time.

WVRedsFan
05-01-2007, 03:10 AM
You just never know. Alcohol is society's reason for all things bad. I heard a lot of folks say today that he "had to have been drinking"? Maybe so or maybe not. He might have just made a mistake. Today, I was driving while trying to tune my radio and nearly went off the road and over an embankment. And I was stone sober. Mistakes happen. Makes you aware of how fragile life is.

My heart goes out to the Hancock family and to the Cardinals. And even to the Reds. How many times over the last two years I have cursed Jerry Narron and/or Wayne Krivsky, or whoever for that stupid weight rule. Hancock was a pretty good pitcher. We could have used him in our bullpen, but I'm sure everyone is feeling bad about what happened yesterday. You ask why, but it's not for us to question. RIP Josh.

paulrichjr
05-01-2007, 11:39 AM
You just never know. Alcohol is society's reason for all things bad. I heard a lot of folks say today that he "had to have been drinking"? Maybe so or maybe not. He might have just made a mistake. Today, I was driving while trying to tune my radio and nearly went off the road and over an embankment. And I was stone sober. Mistakes happen. Makes you aware of how fragile life is.

My heart goes out to the Hancock family and to the Cardinals. And even to the Reds. How many times over the last two years I have cursed Jerry Narron and/or Wayne Krivsky, or whoever for that stupid weight rule. Hancock was a pretty good pitcher. We could have used him in our bullpen, but I'm sure everyone is feeling bad about what happened yesterday. You ask why, but it's not for us to question. RIP Josh.

Just goes to show how one small decision can change a season. I'm not trying to take away from this news at all but I found it interesting that so many Cardinals players said that they wouldn't have gotten there without him last year.

Blimpie
05-01-2007, 08:52 PM
people always trying to capitalize, but i guess it works for them b/c you looked it up

it is sad

RIP HANCOCKI guess you can call it a morbid curiosity on my part.

However, my curious nature should not imply that their attempts to capitalize on a tragedy will be successful.

The two actions are mutually exclusive.

Swampturkey
05-02-2007, 12:07 AM
While I think that it is not looking good as far as what we will see with Hancock's toxicology report, but the "eye witness" to this so called drinking refused to give their name or be interviewed on camera, so many here in St. Louis do not know whether or not this witness is even credible. Again, I agree that it's not looking good, but I hope everyone waits for the facts to come out before passing judgement.

Regardless of the outcome, a human life was lost and it's a very said thing. When he first came to the Cardinals, a STL reporter asked Hancock what would be the best thing for him to accomplish in his career and without hesitation, Josh said "a ring" said he just wanted that ring and he wanted to be a part of a parade in the city. Said back then that if that happened, it would be something he would carry with him for the rest of his life. While I did not know Hancock at all, never even met him, I take solice in the fact that his baseball dream came true.

BTW, Hancock was in an accident last Thursday morning (police have already said that there was absolutly NO indication that he had been drinking prior to that incident) as well. Just a minor thing where his car was clipped. The police said that after taking the report and everything, Josh Hancock was in a good mood and even let them all handle and wear his world series ring. I guess he took it with him places. I just got a kick out of that because of all the reports from people who knew him, that was just a very Josh Hancock-like thing to do.

WVPacman
05-02-2007, 01:31 AM
RIP Josh Hancock you will be missed!!!!!!!

TeamDunn
05-02-2007, 07:35 AM
In a case like this I would not want my name released either. Nothing like having a few hundred thousand peple instantly hate you.

I'm sorry that he had the accident in the first place and very sorry he died. But I have no tolerence for drunk drivers and am glad he did not take anyone else with him.

OldRightHander
05-02-2007, 08:01 AM
So he could have had one or two beers beforehand, not been impaired one bit by it, and crashed because of some other distraction or just from being a bit too sleepy. The alcohol will get the blame even if the toxicology report shows that he wasn't legally drunk. Now I have absolutely no tolerance for drunk drivers, but I hope people have the sense to look truthfully at this situation once all the facts come out. If it comes out that he was trashed, then blame the alcohol, but if he only had one beer I think we have to look elsewhere for the cause. Sleepiness can impair one as bad as alcohol but you never hear people clamoring about doing away with driving tired.

mth123
05-02-2007, 08:04 AM
So he could have had one or two beers beforehand, not been impaired one bit by it, and crashed because of some other distraction or just from being a bit too sleepy. The alcohol will get the blame even if the toxicology report shows that he wasn't legally drunk. Now I have absolutely no tolerance for drunk drivers, but I hope people have the sense to look truthfully at this situation once all the facts come out. If it comes out that he was trashed, then blame the alcohol, but if he only had one beer I think we have to look elsewhere for the cause. Sleepiness can impair one as bad as alcohol but you never hear people clamoring about doing away with driving tired.

Given the way the truck driver described the accident, I wondered if he fell asleep and woke to late to save himself. Sounds like it to me.

Cedric
05-02-2007, 12:32 PM
In a case like this I would not want my name released either. Nothing like having a few hundred thousand peple instantly hate you.

I'm sorry that he had the accident in the first place and very sorry he died. But I have no tolerence for drunk drivers and am glad he did not take anyone else with him.

Exactly. We know how insane some fans are and I wouldn't risk it. No way, no how.

RedsFan75
05-03-2007, 09:30 AM
So this morning Fox Sports Final Score quotes the St. Louis Post Dispatch as saying a source reports that there was a small amount of Marijuana in the vehicle.

Swampturkey
05-03-2007, 11:35 PM
So this morning Fox Sports Final Score quotes the St. Louis Post Dispatch as saying a source reports that there was a small amount of Marijuana in the vehicle.

That is what is being reported. They are holding a press conference tomorrow (they wanted to wait until after the funeral/memorial service yesterday and today to hold it) to release more info about what the accident recreation team has found out and about the marijuana found. They will not be releasing the toxicology report yet though.

They will also mention the fact that the accident was caught on tape from the security camera's on two local radio stations.

Another rumor was that a man says his girl friend was receiving text messages from Hancock right up until about the time he crashed, so again, just a rumor, but someone claims he may have been texting at the time of the crash. This actually makes more sense to me because even a drunk person would have tried to swurve to miss the tow truck. Hancock did not until the very second before impact. Had he been looking down (texting) he may not have even saw it until it was too late.

Lots or theories, lots of rumors, and we may never learn the truth but it's still a sad situation.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AlMPfAvVMBYWwn7QEOFXacUp0bYF?slug=ap-cardinals-hancock&prov=ap&type=lgns

Cardinals join mourners in public memorial for Hancock

By R.B. FALLSTROM, AP Sports Writer
May 3, 2007

TUPELO, Miss. (AP) -- St. Louis Cardinals pitcher Randy Flores will miss playing catch with Josh Hancock.

"Every day, I was reminded of his heart," Flores said Thursday at a public memorial for his fellow reliever. "Josh loved being a baseball player."

The Cardinals were among an estimated 500 mourners for Hancock, who died in an automobile accident early Sunday. Flores was the only teammate who spoke at the service, and he recalled Hancock's playful nature.

Organizers had expected three or four Cardinals to participate, including manager Tony La Russa. They also anticipated that several players would speak after the service.

Instead, on the advice of center fielder Jim Edmonds, the traveling party of 50 filed onto two buses behind the church and left immediately without talking to the media.

"What do you want me to say?" general manager Walt Jocketty said before boarding.

The 29-year-old Hancock was driving a rented Ford Explorer early Sunday when it crashed into a flatbed tow truck on a highway in St. Louis. Autopsy results have not been released, and toxicology tests were pending.

The World Series champion Cardinals play their first home game since the wreck when they host Houston on Friday night. St. Louis has lost five in a row and is in last place in the NL Central.

Hancock's sister, Katie, a star athlete at Tupelo High School, called him a "great guy, a great man and a great big brother."

She remembered the time her big brother took her horseback riding, but instead saddled her on a cow. She imitated his laugh, recalling the prank.

Hancock's agent, the scout who signed him to his first pro contract and a high school coach all related memories -- many of them prompting laughs -- in a mostly uplifting hour-long service at First United Methodist Church.

Hancock's father, Dean Hancock, wore a red ribbon with the No. 32 -- his son's uniform number -- on his left lapel as he read a statement before the service. He took no questions, thanking the media for "respecting our privacy and for respecting Josh's honor."

"Professional baseball players are brothers within a family, and the St. Louis Cardinals players and coaches are bonded together, in my opinion, like no other family in baseball," Hancock said. "Josh was so proud to be a member of that family."

During his sermon, the Rev. John Sudduth held a prized possession, a ball autographed by Hancock after signing his first professional contract with the Boston Red Sox in 1997.

Cas McWaters, an assistant coach at Vestavia Hills High School in suburban Birmingham, Ala., when Hancock was a star, talked about the pitcher's struggles with chemistry class.

"He kept asking me, 'When am I ever going to need chemistry?' I told him, 'To graduate,"' McWaters said.

Hancock set the Alabama prep record with 27 straight wins and helped Vestavia Hills -- where Yankees pitcher Colter Bean was a teammate -- win three straight state championships in the mid-1990s.

Hancock broke into the major leagues in 2002 and played for four teams. He was 3-3 with one save last season and led Cardinals relievers in innings with 77.

"He wasn't a household name," McWaters said. "He was what I call just beginning to come into the strength of his career."

Joe Mason of Nashville, Tenn., signed Hancock to his first contract. He said if the reliever played in the 1930s he'd have been friends with Dizzy Dean but that if he'd grown up in the 1960s "he would have gone to Woodstock."

Three days before the fatal wreck, Hancock was involved in a predawn accident in Sauget, Ill., that police treated routinely.

Hancock was buried Wednesday in rural Itawamba County.

TheBigLebowski
05-04-2007, 01:04 PM
Don't have a link as I'm on the road and I heard it on the radio.

Drinking and driving...geez. There is no bright side to this but, at the very least, no one else was hurt.

WMR
05-04-2007, 01:06 PM
That's not good.

Wonder how LaRussa feels?

TheBigLebowski
05-04-2007, 01:07 PM
That's not good.

Wonder how LaRussa feels?

I don't know. I don't know how he's supposed to feel.

RedsBaron
05-04-2007, 01:09 PM
It is also being reported that marijuana was found in his vehicle.

Chip R
05-04-2007, 01:09 PM
That's not good.

Wonder how LaRussa feels?


With his hands, I'm guessing.

Yachtzee
05-04-2007, 02:04 PM
Legally drunk, pot in the car, and talking on the phone. Not a good combination.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-cardinals-hancock&prov=ap&type=lgns

flyer85
05-04-2007, 02:06 PM
Unforunately baseball tacitly endorses the consumption of alcohol by players after games.

GullyFoyle
05-04-2007, 02:07 PM
And he was on his way to another bar....

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2860122

My sympathies go out to family and friends, but he made some poor decisions.

I am glad no one else was hurt.

Yachtzee
05-04-2007, 02:11 PM
Unforunately baseball tacitly endorses the consumption of alcohol by players after games.

A lot of people enjoy a few adult beverages after they get off work. The problem is doing it in excess and then getting behind the wheel.

princeton
05-04-2007, 02:11 PM
how Darwinian

I heard a story about a driver that took out 10 other cars. Driver's arm was found near the scene, holding a cell phone.

flyer85
05-04-2007, 02:12 PM
A lot of people enjoy a few adult beverages after they get off work. ... for almost everyone the beverages are not provided by their employer.

Yachtzee
05-04-2007, 02:46 PM
... for almost everyone the beverages are not provided by their employer.

Believe it or not, I've worked at a number of places where, yes, the beverages were in fact provided by the employer, especially if you just happened to bring the clients along.

I posted this in the other thread, but if I were running a ballclub, I'd be more than happy to provide post-game beer for the team because I know where they are and I can keep an eye on them. I can give the clubbies orders to keep an eye on the guys and have them confiscate keys if they've had a few too many. And I'm sure the clubby won't mind driving the player's car out to his house the next morning for a nice tip. If they want to go to the clubs afterward, I'd be more than happy to provide the limos. For the amounts paid in salaries, I'd be a fool if I didn't make efforts to protect my investment in these players.

jimbo
05-04-2007, 03:02 PM
If someone wants to drink, they're going to no matter if their employer provides it or not. I'm not sure how you can dictate to players that they can't have a few beers after the game while at the same time allowing patrons to drink the entire game, many of them probably driving home drunk. The problem isn't providing beer in the clubhouse, the problem is that there are some players who do not have the personal responsibility to not drive afterwards. If major league ballclubs want to take some kind of action on the heels of the Hancock incident, I think they should start providing some kind of driving service to their players.

TC81190
05-04-2007, 03:11 PM
Marijuana...Josh... :(

Always Red
05-04-2007, 03:11 PM
Unforunately baseball tacitly endorses the consumption of alcohol by players after games.

..and by it's fans during the game...

Razor Shines
05-04-2007, 03:11 PM
... for almost everyone the beverages are not provided by their employer.

What does that have to do with it? Pro athletes make a lot of money, I doubt it matters one way or another who's paying for the drinks. You can't blame baseball or the Cardinals for this. Josh Hancock made some very poor decisions that tragically cost him his life, thank God he didn't hurt anyone else. But the only person to blame in this case is Josh Hancock, it's sad but that's how it is.

MartyFan
05-04-2007, 03:15 PM
Legally drunk, pot in the car, and talking on the phone. Not a good combination.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-cardinals-hancock&prov=ap&type=lgns

And at night on a freeway.

lollipopcurve
05-04-2007, 03:15 PM
I suspect that when the Reds cut Hancock the message was about more than his weight.

The way he used to sweat when he pitched, you have to wonder....

jimbo
05-04-2007, 03:24 PM
The way he used to sweat when he pitched, you have to wonder....

You know, I was wondering if I was the only one who noticed that. And it would be a sign that he may have had a serious problem.

gonelong
05-04-2007, 03:33 PM
... for almost everyone the beverages are not provided by their employer.

I worked a job in the computer field where we were requried to wear a suit on a daily basis. There was beer in the fridge courtesy of the employer. More than a handful of times I sat around after work and had a few with the boys.

All-hands meetings sometimes turned into a "who wants a beer" occasions.

Miss those days ...

GL

Chip R
05-04-2007, 03:35 PM
You know, I was wondering if I was the only one who noticed that. And it would be a sign that he may have had a serious problem.


Dennys Reyes isn't called Senor Sweat for nothing and no one says he's a boozer. I think that's stretching it a bit. He just sweated a lot.

jimbo
05-04-2007, 04:02 PM
Dennys Reyes isn't called Senor Sweat for nothing and no one says he's a boozer. I think that's stretching it a bit. He just sweated a lot.

Nowhere did I imply that excessive sweating alone is a sign that someone has a drinking problem. But any doctor will tell you that a physical symptom of alcohol dependancy and withdrawal is excessive sweating. Combining these facts with the facts that we now know about the accident and incidents leading up to the accident, I don't think I'm "stretching" things at all.

SirFelixCat
05-04-2007, 04:24 PM
This completely changes my view on this. Personally, now I'm totally C'est la vie, nothing to see here, move on kinda thing now.


He brought it upon himself. The pot...meh, I don't care. Drinking and driving? His own damn fault. Bummer for his friends/family/teammates, but it's his own damn fault. I have ZERO sympathy or empathy for those that drink and drive.

Darwinism at its finest. Call me callous but too often the drunk isn't hurt and he hurts/kills others. Absolutely no excuse for drinking and driving. None at all. So again, c'est la vie.

flyer85
05-04-2007, 04:32 PM
Miss those days ...
not many places do anymore. Where I work the beer at the quarterly all-hands meeting quit flowing about 5 years ago.

TeamSelig
05-04-2007, 04:42 PM
Too bad his manager puts up this type of stuff. I suspect this wasn't the first time Josh ever did what he did. Probably had a problem. One that was ignored.

I hate what he did, but I still can't help to feel sorry for him. Way too young.

Deepred05
05-05-2007, 01:03 AM
You know, I was wondering if I was the only one who noticed that. And it would be a sign that he may have had a serious problem.
I always suspected there was more to the Josh Hancock "release" than we were told. Overweight pitcher? A lot of them around the big leagues.

creek14
05-05-2007, 01:18 AM
The really sad thing is - across the country at this very minute, hundreds, maybe thousands, of people are driving in the same condition that Josh was in.

Most will make it home. Some won't. Some will take innocents with them.

Wheelhouse
05-05-2007, 01:36 AM
A lot of people enjoy a few adult beverages after they get off work. The problem is doing it in excess and then getting behind the wheel.

What do you mean by a few? Three? Three beers in the course of two hours would most likely make you legally drunk.

Yachtzee
05-05-2007, 10:08 AM
What do you mean by a few? Three? Three beers in the course of two hours would most likely make you legally drunk.

Maybe if you are a small child or have a really slow metabolism. Most BAC calculators estimate that a 180 lb. person who has had 3 12 oz. beers in 2 hours would have a BAC of .02-.03, well under the legal limit. Of course, legal intoxication is different from impairment, so someone could still be impaired and be under the legal limit.

I still have no problem with beer in the clubhouse because, again, the whole point is that, as owner of the ballclub, I will have invested quite a bit of money in these guys. I want these guys to feel at home in the clubhouse, but I mostly want to protect my investment. If a guy is throwing down beers like they're going out of style, I get that guy a limo. I might even have a couple limos at the ready after every game, just to be safe. If I'm wealthy enough to own a ballclub, I can definitely afford to spring for some limos for my players. I also hammer it into their heads that the organization has no tolerance for drinking and driving and that players who do so may find themselves playing elsewhere. Might not bother the vets, but I'm sure some kids with options don't want to hear that.

You know some of these guys are going out after the game. Instead of prohibition, which just pushes the drinking back (and for some young guys, the farther you push back their starting point, the more they feel they have to "catch up"), why not be proactive and take steps to make sure they aren't driving? Is it the drinking that's the problem, or the driving?

Always Red
05-05-2007, 10:56 AM
What do you mean by a few? Three? Three beers in the course of two hours would most likely make you legally drunk.

Not even close, Wheelhouse, Yachtzee's right.

A 200 pound man (which most of these guys are) would require far more alcohol to reach inebriation.

here's a good blood alcohol content calculator: http://www.ou.edu/oupd/bac.htm

The issue, IMO, is driving while impaired. Most of these guys make a ton of money, and could easily arrange for transportation, and I assume that some of them do while they're drinking (at least the more mature ones).

Management should be realistic and pro-active. Young, rich, baseball players are going to go out and have fun. There's nothing wrong with that, and there is nothing wrong with drinking alcohol, responsibly. Having someone to make sure (yes, a babysitter of sorts) that these guys have safe transport while partying would not be hard to do; the clubhouse guys could probably handle the planning.

Always Red
05-05-2007, 11:57 AM
Hancock's blood alcohol level was 0.157.

To give you an idea of how much he needed to drink to reach that level, using the blood alcohol content calculator above, he would have needed to drink 8 whiskey highballs in one hour, to reach a BAC of 0.150. That's if he weighed the 217 pounds that's listed officially. If he weighed more, he would have obviously needed to drink more.

The Cardinals have banned alcohol from their clubhouse. I don't have a problem with that, per se, and I realize that they had to do something, at least from a PR standpoint. But Jocketty pointed out that guys don't sit in the clubhouse and get drunk, they go out. It's about personal responsibility. Each guy needs to police himself.

Banning alcohol (beer) from the clubhouse really just limits the Cardinal's liability more than anything else. I think it's an empty gesture, strictly a move for PR, which is something I understand that they needed to do, given the alcohol problems the Cardinals have had this year.

If the Cardinals were serious about alcohol awareness and not drinking and driving, they would no longer sell Anheuser-Busch beer products in Busch Stadium. I'm serious. Baseball cannot continue to encourage it's fans to buy $7 beer throughout the game, and then encourage sobriety as well.

I would be totally against no beer in the ballpark, personally. I have learned to drink responsibly, to use designated drivers, and to be a designated driver when necessary. But I did not always act in this manner; and certainly every single day, people drive impaired.

TeamSelig
05-05-2007, 06:33 PM
Some people on here think its okay to drink a case of beer and drive, we've had these discussions before.

.157 is obvious, probably wild and crazy drunk not to mention he was probably high as a kite as well... with all that money why can't they call a taxi or something

Ravenlord
05-05-2007, 06:37 PM
so does the BAC content stay the same regardless of your tolerance?

Yachtzee
05-05-2007, 07:01 PM
so does the BAC content stay the same regardless of your tolerance?

Yep. That's why a highly-functioning alcoholic can seem hardly impaired and blow a .20 and a person who is normally not a drinker can appear inebriated at a .02. Of course that doesn't mean the alcoholic should be getting behind the wheel. Anyone with that much alcohol in their system can go from seemingly normal to incoherently drunk in no-time.

BAC is a function of your body's ability to metabolize alcohol. I think tolerance relates more to you're ability to function with all that alcohol in your system. The legal limit is what it is because a combination of science and lobbying have determined that .08 is about the level where most people would be impaired enough to make driving dangerous.