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View Full Version : Potential 2nd PTBNL from Denorfia trade?



Patrick Bateman
04-29-2007, 06:40 PM
I posted this in the original Deno trade thread, but I'm guessing most people are sick of rummaging through it, so I thought this was worth it's own discussion:

One player that makes sense for the other PTBNL is Danny Putnam.

Now I reason this based on how strange the PTBNL seems to be in this occurence. We know the player is near major league ready, but still isn't going to be traded right now.

The fact that the player is close to being ready seems to cancel out the chance of a draft pick, and the Athletics players currently injured don't seem like logical candidates based on already being major league ready or their contract status.

So to me, it's most logically a player that the Athletics currently have a use for, and that the Reds wouldn't.

Now the Athletics currently have Milton Bradley and Mark Kotsay injured which forced them to call up Danny Putnam due to their lack of depth. My guess is that Putnam goes down when Bradley comes back in the next 3 or so weeks, but the Athletics would still be thin on OF depth which would explain why they would want to hold on to Putnam for now.

So my guess is the transaction goes down when Kotsay comes back from injury (approximately mid June). Krivsky did say that he expects the other player to be announced sometime during the summer whih does coincide with Kotsay coming back from injury.

Putnam would fit Krivsky's description of being close to major league ready. We know the player is a prospect of some assortment. Putnam is in the majors right now, but he's not really ready, but is fairly close.

As the Reds don't have a use for Putnam right now, and he's likely to spend most of his time in the minors anyway, Krivsky probably doesn't mind Putnam staying on the major league roster for the Athletics for the time being. I think McBeth was named for the reason that the Reds had a more potential use for him right now while the Athletics didn't, unlike Putnam.

IMO, Putnam is the only player that makes sense as the PTBNL. There is obviously an abnormal reason as to why the player has not been named yet and the Athletics OF situation right now is very shaky. Putnam is also the A's only OF prospect that really qualifies as being near major league ready.

In Putnam, the Reds would get a 25 year old corner outfielder. he's not very good defensively, and his bat doesn't profile to be good enough to play everyday as a corner outfielder.

He's fairly disciplined. 55-65 BB's per season should be expected out of him while also not striking out an enormous rate. Shows mediocre power (around 15-20 homer potential). In all, his bat profiles as a pretty similar overall package to Deno. Not quite the on base ability, but probably a little better power.

Here's his career minor league stats:
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/Danny-Putnam.shtml

The big downgrade is the defense. Deno can play a very solid CF, while Putnam is below average, even in LF. He compares favorably to a Gabe Gross.

I'm probably looking too much into this, but I think he's the most logical bet. If true, the trade would be adding McBeth for a downgrade in the OF. the Reds already have CF candidates in Freel and Hamilton which would make Denorfia's strong ability there unneccessary in Cincy, while the Reds would still add some good OF depth in Putnam as a really strong bench player down the road. If true, I think this would be a worthwhile trade for the Reds where the upgrade in pitching far outweighs what is lost in the OF.

Can anyone think of other logical candidates based on clues that Krivsky has given?

mth123
04-29-2007, 07:19 PM
Your logic on Putnam makes sense. Another possibility is some one who is hurt right now (Halsey?).

mth123
04-29-2007, 10:11 PM
New theory.

A's acquired Ryan Langerhans today. When all the players get healthy they'll have a roster problem with Kotsay, Bradley, Swisher, Langerhans, Buck and Kielty.

Maybe Kielty is the RH Bat (switch hitter actually). The A's dump part of his $2 Million Salary with the Reds getting some relief (the reason for the cash in the Deno deal). I know Krivsky said guys almost ready but maybe that was just McBeth.

Kielty started his career in Min.

Hmmm?

Joseph
04-29-2007, 10:26 PM
New theory.

A's acquired Ryan Langerhans today. When all the players get healthy they'll have a roster problem with Kotsay, Bradley, Swisher, Langerhans, Buck and Kielty.

Maybe Kielty is the RH Bat (switch hitter actually). The A's dump part of his $2 Million Salary with the Reds getting some relief (the reason for the cash in the Deno deal). I know Krivsky said guys almost ready but maybe that was just McBeth.

Kielty started his career in Min.

Hmmm?

Interesting theory.

Natty Redlocks
04-29-2007, 11:32 PM
A righty bat would make a bit more sense, I think.

TeamSelig
04-29-2007, 11:37 PM
Good thinking.

Sorry if I've missed this, I've been pretty busy, but does anyone think the PTBNL is just the rights to Jared Burton?

According to what i've read, McBeth seems to be a pretty decent prospect. Him, along with cash is a pretty fair deal for Denorfia who wasn't that highly regarded. I just thought that it was Burton right off the bat, but who knows?

Dracodave
04-29-2007, 11:37 PM
A righty bat would make a bit more sense, I think.

Javier Herrera. Nuff said. Aim high Reds fans!


one can wish right?

Dracodave
04-29-2007, 11:37 PM
Good thinking.

Sorry if I've missed this, I've been pretty busy, but does anyone think the PTBNL is just the rights to Jared Burton?

According to what i've read, McBeth seems to be a pretty decent prospect. Him, along with cash is a pretty fair deal for Denorfia who wasn't that highly regarded. I just thought that it was Burton right off the bat, but who knows?

Krivisky said it wasn't burton.

HumnHilghtFreel
04-29-2007, 11:38 PM
Sorry if I've missed this, I've been pretty busy, but does anyone think the PTBNL is just the rights to Jared Burton?


No. WK has already ruled that out, as he'd first have to clear waivers. Burton is already Reds property.

TeamSelig
04-29-2007, 11:41 PM
Okay, thanks. Wasn't sure about that.

Do the A's have any expendable MIFers? What about a 3rd catcher for us? ;)

BearcatShane
04-30-2007, 01:33 AM
I thought a PTBNL could not be on the major league roster?

AmarilloRed
04-30-2007, 02:13 AM
He said he was close to major league ready not major league.

BearcatShane
04-30-2007, 02:18 AM
He said he was close to major league ready not major league.



I was just ruling out Kielty with my comment.

mth123
04-30-2007, 06:37 AM
I thought a PTBNL could not be on the major league roster?

A PTBNL can be anybody.

mth123
04-30-2007, 06:37 AM
He said he was close to major league ready not major league.

Maybe that was in reference to McBeth. We may be reading too much into that comment. Maybe close to ready means close to ready to come off the DL or off a rehab assignment (which wouldn't be Kielty).

redsmetz
04-30-2007, 09:34 AM
Curious thing though. I see in the Atlanta paper this morning that the Braves traded outfielder Ryan Langerhans to the A's. I'm not sure how, or if, this impacts our trade, but we'll see.

IslandRed
04-30-2007, 11:55 AM
I thought a PTBNL could not be on the major league roster?

I think technically, the restriction is the PTBNL can't be playing in the same league as the team where he's being traded. Assuming "league" means what it says, a player in the AL could be named later in a swap to a NL club. Someone correct me if that's not exactly right.

Joseph
04-30-2007, 11:57 AM
Do the A's have any expendable MIFers?

I don't think they have any hot soccer moms.

Oh wait,there is no L in that. Sorry.

Redsland
04-30-2007, 12:06 PM
I think technically, the restriction is the PTBNL can't be playing in the same league as the team where he's being traded. Assuming "league" means what it says, a player in the AL could be named later in a swap to a NL club. Someone correct me if that's not exactly right.
You are correct.

Red Leader
04-30-2007, 12:18 PM
I'm thinking that the 2nd PTBNL is one of those deals where OAK will wait to see if Denorfia heals in time to play in September / October and if he does indeed recover and play the Reds get a pick of 'x' number of players off of list #1. If he doesn't recover by the end of the season the Reds get a pick of 'x' number of players off of a second list. In other words, I don't think this player will be named for quite some time.

Unless of course the above is contrary to what Krivsky has already said (which I admit I haven't followed too closely) in which case, I'm not thinking the above. :)

redsmetz
04-30-2007, 12:51 PM
I'm thinking that the 2nd PTBNL is one of those deals where OAK will wait to see if Denorfia heals in time to play in September / October and if he does indeed recover and play the Reds get a pick of 'x' number of players off of list #1. If he doesn't recover by the end of the season the Reds get a pick of 'x' number of players off of a second list. In other words, I don't think this player will be named for quite some time.

Unless of course the above is contrary to what Krivsky has already said (which I admit I haven't followed too closely) in which case, I'm not thinking the above. :)

I think this comes up every time and trade involves a PTBNL - I think the clubs have names which have been put forward and then the receiving club selects the one. I don't think it ever involves how the traded player performs. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Red Leader
04-30-2007, 12:59 PM
I think this comes up every time and trade involves a PTBNL - I think the clubs have names which have been put forward and then the receiving club selects the one. I don't think it ever involves how the traded player performs. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

It may not involve how a player performs, but it could involve the health of said player. If Denorfia suffers a setback in his recover and requires a second surgery or will not be available to the A's until possibly next spring training I would have to believe the Reds would not receive the same prospect they would if he was healthy and able to play in September. This isn't about performance, it's about health. I have absolutely no idea if that's the way this deal was worked out, but I'd think it'd be likely in this situation where the A's traded for an injured player.

IslandRed
04-30-2007, 01:33 PM
RL, I'm not sure about that if only because I haven't seen a single report that suggests Denorfia could play this season. I think it's more likely that the delay is because one or more guys on "the list" were drafted last year and can't be traded until June.

On the larger subject, I don't think there's any rule about how the PTBNL must be agreed upon; the list-of-names, pick-one-later is a custom rather than a requirement. Which means the type of deal RL is referring to, where the return is adjusted based on whether a guy plays or how much or how well, is possible, it's just not typical. It just doesn't seem likely in this case.

Newman4
04-30-2007, 03:07 PM
I don't think they have any hot soccer moms.

Oh wait,there is no L in that. Sorry.


:laugh: :thumbup:

PuffyPig
04-30-2007, 04:56 PM
I don't think they have any hot soccer moms.

Oh wait,there is no L in that. Sorry.

If you have to explein the joke......:laugh:

DannyB
04-30-2007, 08:08 PM
So since they have named Mcbeth already when does he show up?

Tony Cloninger
04-30-2007, 08:13 PM
During the 1st act of Shakespears' play.

Mario-Rijo
04-30-2007, 09:30 PM
On the Burton front, he would not necc. need to clear waivers would he? Could we not send him back, already having a deal in place to trade something for him? I mean is this against any particular rules, I know it may be a bit unorthodox but hey if it's legal.