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Jefferson24
05-02-2007, 12:51 AM
I noticed Arroyo has a higher batting average than Castro at the moment. We really need to move Castro to a coaching position of some kind and bring up someone a little younger with a bat and a glove. A move like that makes a little too much sense though so it probably wont happen.

creek14
05-02-2007, 12:57 AM
I noticed he wasn't at the May day celebration in Havana today.

Oh wait...



;)

Doro
05-02-2007, 01:14 AM
Castro isnt a great hitter but would you really rather have Arroyo batting? If you both had them come to the plate 450 times I would bet all the money I have that Castro would come out with the better numbers. Who are you going to bring up thats better than Castro?

KronoRed
05-02-2007, 01:19 AM
Milton

;)

RBA
05-02-2007, 01:26 AM
If only we had the Redszone Legend, the Great Gookie Dawkins back at Louisville to bring up.

vic715
05-02-2007, 01:27 AM
Castro is what he is, a utility player who has a purpose.He's not here to play everyday (thank god )but he does a decent job filling in on defense.Sparky once said "if you start playing not everyday players everyday they will eventually show you why they aren't everyday players.Castro would definitally fit that statement.

WMR
05-02-2007, 02:40 AM
He sucks.

Giving him an extension was dumb.

Oh well. Just goes to show you the legs of a "reputation" in MLB.

redsmetz
05-02-2007, 05:33 AM
He sucks.

Giving him an extension was dumb.

Oh well. Just goes to show you the legs of a "reputation" in MLB.

As Vic715 noted, he is what he is - he serves a defensive purpose.

He's Darrel Chaney & Doug Flynn, he's Rafael Landestoy and Luis Quinones - mostly defensive specialists who fill in at various infield positions. Every club has them and they all hit somewhere in the low .200's and are on the team for their versitility and their glove (although Flynn was a starter for a while in the Mets organization).

RFS62
05-02-2007, 06:49 AM
As Vic715 noted, he is what he is - he serves a defensive purpose.

He's Darrel Chaney & Doug Flynn, he's Rafael Landestoy and Luis Quinones - mostly defensive specialists who fill in at various infield positions. Every club has them and they all hit somewhere in the low .200's and are on the team for their versitility and their glove (although Flynn was a starter for a while in the Mets organization).



Excellent posts by you and Vic.

:beerme:

RANDY IN INDY
05-02-2007, 06:51 AM
Agreed. I have no problem with Castro.

Ltlabner
05-02-2007, 07:21 AM
I wonder if they had a bench player/utility guy who hit more like .250 or .260 and had a little better range, how long it would take for people to clammor that he should be in the starting line up (assuming one of the normal guys was struggling).

The logic will be Narron is an idiot because if this player had regular playing time he'd definatley hit better.

Hits too well = should play more often = Narron's an idiot
Hits too poorly = shouldn't have signed him = Krivsky's an idiot

redsmetz
05-02-2007, 07:26 AM
I wonder if they had a bench player/utility guy who hit more like .250 or .260 and had a little better range, how long it would take for people to clammor that he should be in the starting line up (assuming one of the normal guys was struggling).

The logic will be Narron is an idiot because if this player had regular playing time he'd definatley hit better.

Hits too well = should play more often = Narron's an idiot
Hits too poorly = shouldn't have signed him = Krivsky's an idiot

Methinks I detect a common thread there, Ltlabner.

redsmetz
05-02-2007, 07:29 AM
I do want to acknowledge something someone said earlier - about Castro being a coach. I don't think it's an accident that Castro is back with us. And I think part of that has to do with EE, to have a player-mentor. I would very much like to see him stay with the organization when his playing days are over. If we're to succeed, we're going to need a good influx of talented Latin players in the years to come. I'd like to see Juan Castro be one of the folks working with those kids. Besides, weak hitting bench sitting players oftentimes make the best managers. They have lots of time to study things.

Jefferson24
05-02-2007, 07:52 AM
I think Castro would be an asset as some type of coach. Where in the organization I don't know but I'm sure they could find a spot.

I just know it's going to be a long season and I think a younger player with a few more tools would be a better addition to the team in the long hual. Later on in the season when guys need more time off in order to stay properly rested we will need bench players to step in and be effective. Just playing the field and turning in your 0 for 4 wont be good enough.

hebroncougar
05-02-2007, 07:55 AM
As mentioned, Castro is nothing but a defensive replacement and a very occasional start in the infield. He was perfect when the Reds had a titanic offense (or were perceived to have), now that the offense has struggled a bit, people wonder why they have him. IMO he was a better fit when we had Lopez at short, but he still has value as a replace for EdE. in the late innings.

WMR
05-02-2007, 10:38 AM
This thread highlights the power of a reputation in MLB. Whether or not the player, as he currently exists, is still worthy of that reputation.

Castro a defensive genius?

As long as a ball isn't hit more than a foot to either side of him, maybe so.

BRM
05-02-2007, 10:40 AM
WilyMo is bitter this morning. ;)

WMR
05-02-2007, 10:41 AM
WilyMo is bitter this morning. ;)

:mooner: :devil:

BRM
05-02-2007, 10:42 AM
It's not nice to moon people so early in the morning.

WMR
05-02-2007, 10:43 AM
It's not nice to moon people so early in the morning.

:lol:

Bobcat J
05-02-2007, 10:49 AM
He was perfect when the Reds had a titanic offense (or were perceived to have), now that the offense has struggled a bit, people wonder why they have him.

I thought that the offense we have now is The Titanic. ;)

Jefferson24
05-02-2007, 01:13 PM
This thread highlights the power of a reputation in MLB. Whether or not the player, as he currently exists, is still worthy of that reputation.

Castro a defensive genius?

As long as a ball isn't hit more than a foot to either side of him, maybe so.

I agree completely WilyMo. I hear the word defensive specialist tossed around but I haven't seen anything from him that stands out. In my opinion his defense isn't so much better than anyone else that it justifies having his weak bat on the bench.

AmarilloRed
05-02-2007, 01:22 PM
You begin to wonder why Krivsky signed him to a 2-year deal. He is here to play defense in the late innings and get selected pinch hitting opportunitys. It ssems to me his role will decrease as time goes by, and I am not sure he will be here 2 years.

Doro
05-02-2007, 01:23 PM
range is overrated..... yes I said it. Look at how many fielders are said to have great range.... and how many of them cant field. Lopez, the Upton brothers, Weeks, .... I could go on forever. Even with that being said Castro does have more than average range and has a lot more than an average glove. Hes the only one of this team capable of playing SS. I dont want to hear that Phillips can.... there is a reason he was moved to SS and it wasnt Vizquel.

M2
05-02-2007, 01:23 PM
This thread highlights the power of a reputation in MLB. Whether or not the player, as he currently exists, is still worthy of that reputation.

Castro a defensive genius?

As long as a ball isn't hit more than a foot to either side of him, maybe so.

Yep. Notice how many more plays Gonzalez and Encarnacion make at SS and 3B than Castro as the season goes on. Juan can handle 2B largely because his arm allows him to play deep, but he's still a forklift downgrade in the field from Phillips.

So he can't hit and the team's starters are defensively more capable than he is. No team needs a guy like that. I've never had the displeasure of having to watch a player who brings so little to the table for such and extended period of time and I'm going to be an exceptionally happy man when this franchise gets rid of the guy for good. He's easily my least favorite Red of all time.

Chip R
05-02-2007, 01:25 PM
You begin to wonder why Krivsky signed him to a 2-year deal. He is here to play defense in the late innings and get selected pinch hitting opportunitys. It ssems to me his role will decrease as time goes by, and I am not sure he will be here 2 years.


Not just a 2 year deal but a 2 year deal with an option for a 3rd year.

pedro
05-02-2007, 01:26 PM
range is overrated..... yes I said it. Look at how many fielders are said to have great range.... and how many of them cant field. Lopez, the Upton brothers, Weeks, .... I could go on forever. Even with that being said Castro does have more than average range and has a lot more than an average glove. Hes the only one of this team capable of playing SS. I dont want to hear that Phillips can.... there is a reason he was moved to SS and it wasnt Vizquel.

lopez has horrible range and castro's range is not better than average, it's almost non existent.

pedro
05-02-2007, 01:27 PM
Yep. Notice how many more plays Gonzalez and Encarnacion make at SS and 3B than Castro. Juan can handle 2B largely because his arm allows him to play deep, but he's still a forklift downgrade in the field from Phillips.

So he can't hit and the team's starters are defensively more capable than he is. No team needs a guy like that. I've never had the displeasure of having to watch a player who brings so little to the table for such and extended period of time and I'm going to be an exceptionally happy man when this franchise gets rid of the guy for good. He's easily my least favorite Red of all time.

Brendan Harris would have filled Castro's slot nicely IMO.

M2
05-02-2007, 01:30 PM
range is overrated..... yes I said it. Look at how many fielders are said to have great range.... and how many of them cant field. Lopez, the Upton brothers, Weeks, .... I could go on forever. Even with that being said Castro does have more than average range and has a lot more than an average glove. Hes the only one of this team capable of playing SS. I dont want to hear that Phillips can.... there is a reason he was moved to SS and it wasnt Vizquel.

Felipe Lopez doesn't have great range. In fact, poor range (thanks to some of the worst reactions you'll ever see in a SS) is a major problem with Felipe. Rickie Weeks lacks range too. B.J. Upton is flashing it at 2B this year though. Jonathan Upton plays OF, so I'm not sure where he's applicable.

And there's a decade of data which shows Juan Castro has decidedly below average range at SS. I think it's apparent when you watch him play, but for those that don't see it, the numbers are there and they're not ambiguous.

M2
05-02-2007, 01:31 PM
Brendan Harris would have filled Castro's slot nicely IMO.

Me too. Plus, he'd have saved some coin.

Ron Madden
05-02-2007, 01:35 PM
If Castro is the 25th man on your roster, are you playing with a 24 man roster?

UC_Ken
05-02-2007, 01:36 PM
If Castro is the 25th man on your roster, are you playing with a 24 man roster?


Yes

RichRed
05-02-2007, 01:36 PM
Not just a 2 year deal but a 2 year deal with an option for a 3rd year.

Yucksville.

BRM
05-02-2007, 01:37 PM
Not just a 2 year deal but a 2 year deal with an option for a 3rd year.

At least it's a team option and not a player option.

coachw513
05-02-2007, 01:39 PM
As Vic715 noted, he is what he is - he serves a defensive purpose.

He's Darrel Chaney & Doug Flynn, he's Rafael Landestoy and Luis Quinones - mostly defensive specialists who fill in at various infield positions. Every club has them and they all hit somewhere in the low .200's and are on the team for their versitility and their glove (although Flynn was a starter for a while in the Mets organization).

well-stated :thumbup:

UC_Ken
05-02-2007, 01:41 PM
The ability to play multiple positions doesn't make you valuable unless you play them well. If he were a .220 hitting Alex Gonzalez then he'd have some value. A statue who can't hit has no value.

Doro
05-02-2007, 01:43 PM
Felipe Lopez doesn't have great range. In fact, poor range (thanks to some of the worst reactions you'll ever see in a SS) is a major problem with Felipe. Rickie Weeks lacks range too. B.J. Upton is flashing it at 2B this year though. Jonathan Upton plays OF, so I'm not sure where he's applicable.

And there's a decade of data which shows Juan Castro has decidedly below average range at SS. I think it's apparent when you watch him play, but for those that don't see it, the numbers are there and they're not ambiguous.

Felipe has enough range to make difficult plays. So does Weeks compared to other 2Bs. Both Uptons were origionally shortstops. Jonathon was move to outfield because he cant catch the ball and BJ was almost moved there this spring training. The only thing that kept BJ in the infield was the amount of outfield prospects TB has.

Chip R
05-02-2007, 01:50 PM
At least it's a team option and not a player option.


Like they won't pick it up.

M2
05-02-2007, 01:51 PM
Felipe has enough range to make difficult plays. So does Weeks compared to other 2Bs.

They have the ability to make a good play when they get a good jump, which happens rarely. Range doesn't just mean you can accelerate quickly. You've got to be able to do it in the right direction, get your glove in front of the ball and make a good throw too.

UC_Ken
05-02-2007, 01:51 PM
Krivsky will pass on the option so he can give Golden Hands another multi-year deal.

BRM
05-02-2007, 01:51 PM
Like they won't pick it up.

That would be compounding their initial mistake.

Chip R
05-02-2007, 01:54 PM
That would be compounding their initial mistake.


I agree. But I've just resigned myself that it's going to happen. :(

pedro
05-02-2007, 01:56 PM
I agree. But I've just resigned myself that it's going to happen. :(

What a fatalistic bunch of know it alls we've become.

WMR
05-02-2007, 01:57 PM
Thing is, for the aforementioned reasons, Krivsky and Narron wouldn't view it as a mistake. They like his "professionalism" and everything else that that entails.

(or entrails, as Tony Soprano would say) :lol:

redsupport
05-02-2007, 02:15 PM
He is the product of hybrid vigor, a cross between neil Fiala and German Barranca with a tincture of Keith Hughes sprinkled

TeamSelig
05-02-2007, 02:17 PM
The Castro sucks as a fielder allegations make me laugh.

Chip R
05-02-2007, 02:22 PM
What a fatalistic bunch of know it alls we've become.


I'll bet you a 12 pack of your favorite adult beverage they pick it up.

M2
05-02-2007, 03:10 PM
The Castro sucks as a fielder allegations make me laugh.

Great hands, great agility, good arm, poor range

That's been the book on him forever. Sorry if that doesn't plug into your great/sucks paradigm.

DannyB
05-02-2007, 04:06 PM
Yep. Notice how many more plays Gonzalez and Encarnacion make at SS and 3B than Castro as the season goes on. Juan can handle 2B largely because his arm allows him to play deep, but he's still a forklift downgrade in the field from Phillips.

So he can't hit and the team's starters are defensively more capable than he is. No team needs a guy like that. I've never had the displeasure of having to watch a player who brings so little to the table for such and extended period of time and I'm going to be an exceptionally happy man when this franchise gets rid of the guy for good. He's easily my least favorite Red of all time.

:thumbup:

AmarilloRed
05-03-2007, 01:16 AM
Was Castro given the extension before or after we signed Gonzalez? If he was signed before, it could have been done to make up for the loss of Aurilia:confused:

DannyB
05-03-2007, 04:01 PM
Was Castro given the extension before or after we signed Gonzalez? If he was signed before, it could have been done to make up for the loss of Aurilia:confused:


There is no logical answer.Some of the guys we got rid of could do as much for less.

MaineRed
05-03-2007, 09:21 PM
Great hands, great agility, good arm, poor range

That's been the book on him forever. Sorry if that doesn't plug into your great/sucks paradigm.

Is anyone else allowed to have an opinion or is yours the only one that counts?

M2
05-03-2007, 11:58 PM
Is anyone else allowed to have an opinion or is yours the only one that counts?

Mine. Duh.

WMR
05-04-2007, 01:00 AM
Mine. Duh.

:laugh:

AmarilloRed
05-04-2007, 01:39 AM
I was sort of hoping there would be a logical answer.:dunno:

Aronchis
05-04-2007, 04:00 AM
Castro is Wayne's teachers pet. I bet if anyone talks bad about Wayne, Castro tells.

Homer Bailey
05-04-2007, 04:24 AM
Funny thing is...

If we are at the All-star break with a horrible D like last year everyone would be praising WK for getting a replacement like JC.

But as soon as we sign a guy like Gonzo (who I was in support of, although I never said anything officially on this board) we dont "need" a defensive guy on our bench.

All of us want more offense... but we don't need a guy coming off the bench who is capable of hitting 30 Hrs a year. If we dont have JC, who plays late inning defense for us?? I think he is a valuable national league player and I was happy when we signed him and I am not unhappy now.

mth123
05-04-2007, 04:48 AM
Funny thing is...

If we are at the All-star break with a horrible D like last year everyone would be praising WK for getting a replacement like JC.

But as soon as we sign a guy like Gonzo (who I was in support of, although I never said anything officially on this board) we dont "need" a defensive guy on our bench.

All of us want more offense... but we don't need a guy coming off the bench who is capable of hitting 30 Hrs a year. If we dont have JC, who plays late inning defense for us?? I think he is a valuable national league player and I was happy when we signed him and I am not unhappy now.

The team was in that exact situation last year when Castro was acquired. The same (IMO wise) posters complaining about Castro now were telling us the same things then.

Castro is not anywhere close to the top of the list of this team's problems, but the problem has been stated before. It seems that when the Reds acquire guys like Castro for the purpose of sticking him at 3B in the 8th to provide steady (but far from spectacular) defense, its not a terrible idea in and of itself. The problem comes in that baseball can't be that specialized. There is no 53 man roster with 8 inactives before each game like in Football. Devoting a roster spot to such specialty players leaves the team short in other areas.

The fact that Castro was PH in the 8th of a close game with runners on base is very curious. The fact that he probably was the best guy available to fill that role was a joke and gets to the heart of why many are complaining.

Filling the roster with limited upside players who only have the skill to fill a very limited needs is a problem. As a utility IF, Keppinger, Harris or similar options who offer a wider range of uses, even if none are as outstanding as Castro's sure hands probably are, would be better in that spot. These were guys that were on hand and the team chose to jettison in order to keep Castro.

Castro really hasn't got the range for the MI anymore. His offense is never an argument in his favor in spite of a few timely hits that he's sprinkled in, and the acquisition of defensive capable starters at 2B and SS reduces the need for a glove specialist on the bench.

For what little he adds, the team would be better served by using the roster spot in a different way. There just aren't enough spots to devote to a "long snapper for the punt team" and Castro is the baseball equivalent.

GAC
05-04-2007, 06:21 AM
I do want to acknowledge something someone said earlier - about Castro being a coach. I don't think it's an accident that Castro is back with us. And I think part of that has to do with EE, to have a player-mentor.

It was mentioned in a FSN pre-game a few weeks ago that EE credits Castro with helping him a lot last year.

Last year, Castro (54 games) only OPS'd 7 points lower then Lopez (85 games while as a Red in '07) (.748 vs .741). So if he is such a waste or disaster, then what does that make Lopez? ;)

Always Red
05-04-2007, 08:53 AM
I'm as big a Juan Castro fan around here as anyone is, but I cringe when JN sends him up to pinch hit, because there are no other RH hitters on his bench at that time.

JC's time may have come and gone. I'm interested in what kind of glove Keppinger has? Does anyone know? I've heard they are playing him at 3B at Louisville, FWIW.

RichRed
05-04-2007, 09:27 AM
Last year, Castro (54 games) only OPS'd 7 points lower then Lopez (85 games while as a Red in '07) (.748 vs .741). So if he is such a waste or disaster, then what does that make Lopez? ;)

About 8 years younger? ;)

REDREAD
05-04-2007, 11:47 AM
As mentioned, Castro is nothing but a defensive replacement and a very occasional start in the infield. .

If that's all Castro was, I wouldn't mind.

But Castro is also the #1 pinch hitter off the bench when a LH pitcher is starting against us, since Conine is in the starting lineup. Jerry has done this at least three times this year, and it's idiotic. He did it again last night.
Not Castro's fault, but Narron is an idiot for doing that.

REDREAD
05-04-2007, 11:57 AM
Brendan Harris would have filled Castro's slot nicely IMO.

Yes, that's part of the reason why it's so frustrating watching Castro this year. The Reds had an in-house solution that might be better. An in-house solution that was younger and had some upside.

Instead, they chose a more expensive, declining, washed up vet.

Castro's position was a bench player on a .500 team.. Why wouldn't you take the chance with the younger guy? Even if the younger guy flops, does it really hurt you? I don't think so.

GAC
05-04-2007, 05:34 PM
About 8 years younger? ;)

True. But one is a utility player, while the other is an every day player. And one's salary is 4X as much as the other guy. ;)

OnBaseMachine
05-04-2007, 06:20 PM
Juan Castro is the worst player in baseball. The guy isn't good at anything, please release him Krivsky.

GAC
05-05-2007, 06:02 AM
Juan Castro is the worst player in baseball. The guy isn't good at anything, please release him Krivsky.

That is not true and you know it. There are quite a number of ballplayers currently in MLB that are far worse then Castro. He's a utility player and nothing more. You have said in the past that his defense is terrible, and that he is a statue. But you've never shown stats to verify that claim.

Last year, while he was a Red, Lopez OPS'd .748 in 85 games... .355 OB% + .392 SLG%.

Castro, last year, in 54 games as a Red, OPS'd .742..... .320 OB% + .421 SLG%.

And whatever defensive matrix' you use to evaluate Castro, please utilize them on Lopez.

As everyone has stated myriad of times - as long as he spends the majority of his time on that bench, and he has, and enters only in limited situations (late innings), then there is no problem as far as most are concerned.

Topcat
05-05-2007, 06:37 AM
Agreed. I have no problem with Castro.

Personally I would give his roster spot to Jeff keppinger. But that's just my opinion :confused:

TeamSelig
05-05-2007, 05:36 PM
Please guys, you are cracking me up.

Juan Castro is the king of fielding. If he was a bad fielder, do you think he would be in the MLB? I'll be the first one to agree that he is a bad hitter.

Range factor or w/e is a very flawed system. I'm pretty sure RF says that Griffey has more range than Coco Crisp (if I'm remembering correctly in a prior thread)

OnBaseMachine
05-05-2007, 06:15 PM
After thinking it through, I still can't think of one good thing Juan Castro brings to the table. Defensively, he has zero range. Plus I've seen him already boot a routine groundball at 3B this year.

WMR
05-05-2007, 07:07 PM
"Castro, you are what the French call les incompetent."

Rep for anyone who can tell me what movie that's from. (obviously, substituting someone else's name for Castro)

KronoRed
05-05-2007, 07:12 PM
"Castro, you are what the French call les incompetent."

Rep for anyone who can tell me what movie that's from. (obviously, substituting someone else's name for Castro)


Home Alone

WMR
05-05-2007, 07:17 PM
Home Alone

GET EM BOY!!! :D

"Kevin, you're what the French call Les Incompetent."

http://www.casperworld.com/bild-341-889-1-015-1.html

KronoRed
05-05-2007, 07:49 PM
http://lastperson.suncircle.org/Smileys/default/woohoo.gif