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View Full Version : Freel's OBP is seventh on team at .327



demas863
05-03-2007, 03:50 PM
I know it's early but he seems to swing at any fastball, especially in tight and is prone to swinging at the first pitch, good or bad. Anybody know or understand why he doesn't work the count? He seemed to do a better job last year although I haven't looked up the stats. Narron has been called a players' manager. Does that definition include that he's reluctant to give the players specific roles and expect them to accomplish them? I would hope not.

reds1869
05-03-2007, 03:59 PM
Freel is an every day player (not just for a stretch to cover injuries) for essentially the first time in his career. It has been noted in the past that his performance tails off when he plays too much.

Falls City Beer
05-03-2007, 04:02 PM
Oh, it's been noted that he's "not an everyday player," but not correctly.

Still, it's probably not a bad idea to trade him for some relief.

bucksfan2
05-03-2007, 04:04 PM
Freel is the most undiciplined baseball player I have seen play the game in a while. He just doesn't get the little things that make a baseball player a good baseball player. With Freel's speed and ability he should be a much better player than he is. When Dunn has one more stolen base in three less attempts you have to realize that something isnt right. He has a tendency to swing at too many first pitches and bad pitches. Watching him bat is so frustrating some times because you just want Narron to give him the take sign from time to time. But Freel with an OBP of .327 a stolen base rate of right around .500 doesn't help this team out much.

reds1869
05-03-2007, 04:05 PM
Oh, it's been noted that he's "not an everyday player," but not correctly.

Still, it's probably not a bad idea to trade him for some relief.

I think Freel provides tremendous value to this team. The relief brought in would have to provide equivalent value for a trade to be worthwhile, something I don't view as possible in the current pitching market.

reds1869
05-03-2007, 04:07 PM
Freel is the most undiciplined baseball player I have seen play the game in a while. He just doesn't get the little things that make a baseball player a good baseball player. With Freel's speed and ability he should be a much better player than he is. When Dunn has one more stolen base in three less attempts you have to realize that something isnt right. He has a tendency to swing at too many first pitches and bad pitches. Watching him bat is so frustrating some times because you just want Narron to give him the take sign from time to time. But Freel with an OBP of .327 a stolen base rate of right around .500 doesn't help this team out much.

I agree his current form doesn't help the team...I just don't see it as a long term problem. If he continues this way, then it is. I do agree that he is insanely undisciplined. But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy watching Kamikaze # 6 in action. :)

Eric_Davis
05-03-2007, 04:09 PM
If there's one thing about Freel you can count on, it's his consistency in hitting.

Don't worry about him.

At the end of the year, his numbers will be the same they were last year, the year before that, and the year before that.

Eric_Davis
05-03-2007, 04:13 PM
.273; .365; .379

That's what Freel has averaged in his career for AVG, OBP, and SLG, and at the end of this year, he'll be within 5 points of avg, 10 points of OBP, and 20 points of SLG.

You can bet the farm on it.

And a guy with his speed and his lifetime stolen base percentage, he's a perfect player to lead off as many games as you can get him to lead off.

Even with an OBP of .355 he's an outstanding weapon as a leadoff hitter.

reds1869
05-03-2007, 04:15 PM
If there's one thing about Freel you can count on, it's his consistency in hitting.

Don't worry about him.

At the end of the year, his numbers will be the same they were last year, the year before that, and the year before that.

:laugh:

His last three years:

AVG OB

.277 .375
.271 .371
.271 .363

bucksfan2
05-03-2007, 04:22 PM
I agree his current form doesn't help the team...I just don't see it as a long term problem. If he continues this way, then it is. I do agree that he is insanely undisciplined. But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy watching Kamikaze # 6 in action.

Here is what I compare Freel to. He is like a basketball player going one on two on a fast break and jacking up a three. The kind of shot where you say the only time that is a good shot is when it goes in. Freel has the ability to create a run just by getting to first base. There was a game this year when he walked, stole second, went to third on the catcher's throwing error, and scored on a wild pitch that was barely out of the catcher's sight. Those kind of results are great but the laws of average are against Freel. Its disheartening to see a guy with as much speed as Freel strike out more than he walks, has a ok OBP and whose stolen base rate is poor. I want to see Freel successful because I think he is very valuable to this team but with him its almost like when he is on he is very valuable but when he is not he is almost worthless.

Redsland
05-03-2007, 04:43 PM
:laugh:

His last three years:

AVG OB

.277 .375
.271 .371
.271 .363
Pitches per AB:
2004: 4.0
2005: 4.1
2006: 4.1
2007: 4.0

demas863
05-03-2007, 04:46 PM
I want to see Freel successful because I think he is very valuable to this team but with him its almost like when he is on he is very valuable but when he is not he is almost worthless.

I don't want to believe it but those few words sure say a lot.

oneupper
05-03-2007, 05:09 PM
Freel's yearly numbers may be "consistent", but his play has been everything but. VERY streaky (look at his monthly OPS). Currently in a 5 for 34 slump.

Fast runner. Poor baserunner (pickoffs...goes for extra base when not necessary, etc.).

And he's AWFUL with RISP. Being a leadoff hitter doesn't you're always leading off. A leadoff hitter will frequently hit with a man on second and one or two outs (after the pitcher bunts).

In that situation, Freel is 24 for 93 over the past three years (ESPN doesn't give me more) with GET THIS...10 RBI. So over half the times he gets a hit with a runner on second, the guy can't score!

Freel can hardly hit the ball out of the infield and rarely hits a line drive.

Now at 32, I'd expect him to start declining, and I seriously doubt that those consistent numbers are not going to continue.

A lot of REDS pine for the second coming of Pete Rose. Sorry...Freel ain't it.
We're stuck with him (most likely starting) for another 3 years (through 2009, when he'll be 35). Personally, I'm less than thrilled.

Razor Shines
05-03-2007, 05:11 PM
.273; .365; .379

That's what Freel has averaged in his career for AVG, OBP, and SLG, and at the end of this year, he'll be within 5 points of avg, 10 points of OBP, and 20 points of SLG.

You can bet the farm on it.

And a guy with his speed and his lifetime stolen base percentage, he's a perfect player to lead off as many games as you can get him to lead off.

Even with an OBP of .355 he's an outstanding weapon as a leadoff hitter.
Again you have to figure in pick offs. It's not a help.

James B.
05-03-2007, 05:20 PM
It also should be considered that when Freel is on base he can single handedly manufacture runs. He puts pressure on the defense and causes them to make bad mistakes. I think his speed also causes the pitcher to make bad pitches while he is on base.

Will
05-03-2007, 05:30 PM
Hitting .270 something isn't that great for a leadoff hitter. But it is acceptable if he walks alot and raises his OBP. This is where Freel is lacking atm. He has to improve the OBP to be effective at table setting for the Reds. How can he do this ?
Look at more pitches and take some walks. Plus it is a leadoff hitter's job to look at pitches and clue the rest of the club in on what the pitcher is throwing and how effective it is.

jimbo
05-03-2007, 05:35 PM
It also should be considered that when Freel is on base he can single handedly manufacture runs. He puts pressure on the defense and causes them to make bad mistakes. I think his speed also causes the pitcher to make bad pitches while he is on base.

"When Freel is on base" are the key words here. You also have to take into consideration the wrecklessness he displays on the basepaths. As someone else has said, Freel is a fast runner but a poor baserunner.

RichRed
05-03-2007, 05:39 PM
Pitches per AB:
2004: 4.0
2005: 4.1
2006: 4.1
2007: 4.0

4.01 to be precise, good for 19th in the NL. With some of the ugly ABs he's had, I'm a bit surprised to see that.

Bobcat J
05-03-2007, 05:52 PM
Freel is an every day player (not just for a stretch to cover injuries) for essentially the first time in his career. It has been noted in the past that his performance tails off when he plays too much.

Freel's drop in performance from his first three games after a day off to his 7th-8th-9th games after a day off is not as big as Dunn's drop in performance for the same games, and Dunn is considered durable.

In games 1-3 Freel's OPS is .764 and in games 7-9 it is .739. A .025 difference. Dunn goes from .963 to .900.