PDA

View Full Version : Trade or cut Eric Milton?



redsupport
05-04-2007, 01:36 AM
I guess he will keep starting until he breaks joey's record for starting the season

AmarilloRed
05-04-2007, 02:34 AM
I think it is time to start cutting our losses. Eric Milton has no future in the Reds starting rotation.4-5 runs a start is not good enough anymore. If possible, we should see if he can turn it around in the bullpen. Every game he starts I mentally check off as an automatic loss. Homer Bailey is not ready yet, so we need to find another option for our 5th starting pitcher. I would look to trade him to see what we can get for him, or just cut him and accept our losses. I may be rash in giving up on him,but if we are going to try and win the division we need to at least start thinking about it.:help:

dougdirt
05-04-2007, 02:36 AM
I think it is time to start cutting our losses. Eric Milton has no future in the Reds starting rotation.4-5 runs a start is not good enough anymore. If possible, we should see if he can turn it around in the bullpen. Every game he starts I mentally check off as an automatic loss. Homer Bailey is not ready yet, so we need to find another option for our 5th starting pitcher. I would look to trade him to see what we can get for him, or just cut him and accept our losses. I may be rash in giving up on him,but if we are going to try and win the division we need to at least start thinking about it.:help:

If he is pitching bad enough that you want to cut him, what makes you think someone else is willing to take him on?

WVRedsFan
05-04-2007, 02:36 AM
I guess he will keep starting until he breaks joey's record for starting the season

Explain. Joey Jay won 21 games twice. How in the wide, wide world of sports does Eric Milton have anything in common with Joey Jay?

redsupport
05-04-2007, 02:45 AM
he lost his first five starts with the reds one year, milty could break the record

AmarilloRed
05-04-2007, 02:45 AM
There are plenty of teams in the NL Central that are desperate for ANY starting pitching-even Milton.:rolleyes:

KYRed
05-04-2007, 02:47 AM
Explain. Joey Jay won 21 games twice. How in the wide, wide world of sports does Eric Milton have anything in common with Joey Jay?

If the offense hadn't come from behind to let the bullpen take the loss, Milty would have been the first Red since Jay in 1963 to be 0-5 after their first 5 appearances.

Patrick Bateman
05-04-2007, 02:51 AM
Unfortunately, Milton hasn't really done anything to lose trust from Krivsky and Narron. He has actually pitched better so far then he has the last 3 seasons, so I highly doubt that krivsky would choose now to cut him.

A trade is always a possibility, but I still don't see anyone willing to take him at a price that management would see as beneficial.

RedsMan3203
05-04-2007, 02:52 AM
Crazy talk.

Milty is our 5th starter... He has been giving us a soild 5 innings of baseball.

In Milton 5 starts so far this year he has given up 3, 3, 3, 3, & 4. (16 runs, 13ER) He has done the job to get a W, but he has been snake bitten return the bulpen and hits.

Milton is keeping the ball IN The yard, and not walking batters... So forget the money he is making... He isn't costing the team wins.. If you want to know what is... Look up the 8th inning.. and you'll see what i'm talking about.

WVRedsFan
05-04-2007, 02:56 AM
Eric Milton did not lose the game tonight. He's the 5th starter--one I hope is elsewhere by the AS break, but still he is doing what 5th starters do. Of course, it costs us a bundle, but blame that one on Danny O'Brien and his band of merry men.

This game was lost by poor decisions which I've already documented elsewhere. Eric Milton allowed 4 runs. We scored 5.

dougdirt
05-04-2007, 03:12 AM
Eric Milton did not lose the game tonight. He's the 5th starter--one I hope is elsewhere by the AS break, but still he is doing what 5th starters do. Of course, it costs us a bundle, but blame that one on Carl Lindner.

This game was lost by poor decisions which I've already documented elsewhere. Eric Milton allowed 4 runs. We scored 5.

Fixed that for you.

Jr's Boy
05-04-2007, 03:14 AM
Yes it was dumbfounded the amount of lazy flies that were dropping in the game.He could'nt get a break.

KYRed
05-04-2007, 03:32 AM
Eric Milton did not lose the game tonight. He's the 5th starter--one I hope is elsewhere by the AS break, but still he is doing what 5th starters do. Of course, it costs us a bundle,

Have to agree with this overall. At this point, he is not the reason we are struggling. He hasn't had a great start, but he also has not made a single game unwinnable with a gigantic inning. One has to think he'd draw less criticism if he was making a "normal" salary for a small market 5th starter. And in that regard, you sure don't blame Milty for taking the $$ he was offered.

This is a situation where context must be used and run support considered. I think that can be done since it lumps Milty with Bronson. What's it mean? Maybe nothing, but we're 1-10 when Milton and Arroyo start, and 12-5 when Harang, Lohse, or Belise take the mound.

WVRedsFan
05-04-2007, 03:34 AM
Fixed that for you.I prefer to name both idiots...er...men.

Will e ever get past that dark period???

WVRedsFan
05-04-2007, 03:47 AM
If the offense hadn't come from behind to let the bullpen take the loss, Milty would have been the first Red since Jay in 1963 to be 0-5 after their first 5 appearances.

I remember that. And he still won 21 games. Of course, I don't expect that from Milton :D .

keeganbrick
05-04-2007, 05:50 AM
Crazy talk.

Milty is our 5th starter... He has been giving us a soild 5 innings of baseball.

In Milton 5 starts so far this year he has given up 3, 3, 3, 3, & 4. (16 runs, 13ER) He has done the job to get a W, but he has been snake bitten return the bulpen and hits.

Milton is keeping the ball IN The yard, and not walking batters... So forget the money he is making... He isn't costing the team wins.. If you want to know what is... Look up the 8th inning.. and you'll see what i'm talking about.

Agreed:beerme:

GAC
05-04-2007, 07:13 AM
Simple, and very important, question..... who replaces Milton in that rotation? Bailey is not coming up, at the earliest, if even at all, till the end of the season. And I personally don't think he should either. As well as those coaches in the minors.

And please don't say "Anyone is better then Milton", because that really isn't a valid response; but one simply made out of (understandable) frustration. But who do we have, and how do we know they aren't going to come in and do just as bad, or maybe even worse?

He's had a couple starts that were equal to or superior to Harang's. The difference with Harang's starts? He got the run support that saved his butt.

But throw out some names of viable candidates? ;)

mth123
05-04-2007, 07:25 AM
Simple, and very important, question..... who replaces Milton in that rotation? Bailey is not coming up, at the earliest, if even at all, till the end of the season. And I personally don't think he should either. As well as those coaches in the minors.

And please don't say "Anyone is better then Milton", because that really isn't a valid response; but one simply made out of (understandable) frustration. But who do we have, and how do we know they aren't going to come in and do just as bad, or maybe even worse?

Throw out some names of viable candidates? ;)

Right now the only internal option I see that I think is potentially a better choice is Phil Dumatrait.

I don't have a lot of hope for soft tossing Livingston. Kirk Saarloos is not what I call a major league pitcher and IMO he looks worse. I just can't understand how a guy who walks too many and K's way too few (fewer K's than Walks) and gives up HR at rates resembling some of the bigger batting tees in baseball is a reasonable option.

Fact is that the team needs to lose a few of these guys and I wouldn't really be sorry to see Milton go, but its probable he won't bring anything back. At least Saarloos with his lower salary might be movable. Why not pursue trading him for something useful and just keep the guy your stuck with?

I'd be ok with trading Saarloos and dumping Milton at this point with Dumatrait and Bray taking the spots. (Then trade Stanton and move McBeth in.)

GAC
05-04-2007, 07:39 AM
I think we are gonna end up seeing McBeth. I'd like to see that kid Thompson, who we got via the trade last year, moved up to AAA to see how he does.

I'll certainly be glad when Milton is gone. Especially when that money is freed up. I am hoping he would do well enough to be traded by the deadline. Still a chance, but slim possibility. But Milton knows his time in a Red's uniform is over.

But cutting him, when IMO, we really have no viable candidate to come in, doesn't serve any purpose. Keep plugging him out there, miss him in the rotation when you can (days off, etc), and keep the BP warm.

But he has kept the ball in the park, has been the victim of some shoddy play behind him, and has pretty much kept us in games through 5 innings. After that? You're pushing it. And I think it's because of his knee, which is degenerative IMO.

red-in-la
05-04-2007, 07:45 AM
You call 10 hits and 4 walks in 4 innings doing a good job? Much less putting your team down 3-0 in the first inning game after game.

Are we now down to giving Milton credit for the hits not being hit hard? When does that count for anything?

The fact that Milton is keeping the "ball-in-the-yard" and he is pitching this poorly only shows me that things are going to get worse, not better.

As the craftly lefthander pointed out last night, Milton does not have the Ml stuff to get ML hitters out. Let him pitch for another NL Central team.....that would be good for the Reds right there. At least there is a chance that someone else might get better with time, Milton is toast.

GSURedsfan
05-04-2007, 08:10 AM
I know last night on the game thread that we need to eat his contract, but the truth is, he isn't doing all that bad. It's the bullpen that needs the help.

Brent

Big Daddy P
05-04-2007, 08:51 AM
Whoa he's really slingin' this year, baby. His era is under 5 at 4.83.

He's in an Uncle Milty zone that is just stupendous, tremendous, and titillating to all that witness his genius with the rock.

I'm scouring the world wide web right now for an Uncle Milty jersey that I can proudly wear about town and country. I think I'll even grow an Uncle Milty ratty black scraggly beard to go with it.

Go Uncle Milty! Give me a U, give me an N, give me a C.........

BuckWoody
05-04-2007, 08:59 AM
Sure Milty put us down three to start last night but look at how those runs scored. A-Gon boots an easy grounder then they get a pop out to right field that looked like it should have been caught…at least it did from my couch. ;) Give him those two outs, which is to say if he had a better defense behind him, and they may not even score a run.

Granted, you’d like for a pitcher to be able to pick up his teammates in that situation but he still pitched well enough to get out of the first with no runs. If that happens then he likely has a really nice start...maybe even go another inning.

Milty has actually kind of surprised me so far with how well he’s done in the 5th spot. Of course my expectations were very low but he’s kept us in games and hasn’t had one of those nine-runs-in-two-innings kind of implosions.

What other options do we have? They’re not going to release him and eat that money unless he goes completely in the tank over the next month or two. No one in their right mind is going to give us anything in a trade. Right now there is no clear cut person to step in and take his place, just a couple of "what if's" and "I'd like to see's". Let’s ride him while he’s “hot” (Milton hot that is).

Strikes Out Looking
05-04-2007, 09:18 AM
Yes, his era is under 5, but he barely makes five innings a start.
Yes, the defense stunk behind him on Thursday night. Might that be a sign that his team has very little confidence in him and is a bit jumpy/worried/anxious when he's on the mound.

I've notice that both Trent and John Fay's blogs have comments from both beat writers about Milton--and they've asked Narron about Milton.

My take is this: The Reds know they have a problem. The Reds don't know how to fix it without eating what is now about $7 million. I will guess this will resolve itself in about six weeks, when either the $5 left is more swallowable to the Reds, the Yankees have run out of internal starting pitchers (meaning their Rookie league starters have all been placed on the dl), or the Reds are so far out of it, it won't matter when Milton pitches or how Narron uses the bullpen.

redsrule2500
05-04-2007, 09:21 AM
Honestly, Eric Milton is the least of our worries right now...

RedFanAlways1966
05-04-2007, 09:21 AM
Makes me think of 2003 and Jimmy Haynes' 1st four starts...

* 17.2 IP, 30 H, 25 ER, 9 K, 18 BB.
>> 0-4 record, 12.73 ERA, 2.72 WHIP.

Those stats make this year's Eric Milton look like an ace.

bucksfan2
05-04-2007, 09:43 AM
Milton didn't lose the game last night. What do you guys want out of a #5 starter. He is never going to live up to the contract he signed and because of his knee problems never will be an innings eater anymore. I would think by the all star break if Milton stays the same he won't find himself on the club anymore. But as of right now Milton isn't responsible for losing the games.

coachw513
05-04-2007, 10:02 AM
I always remember JJay as being one of the first that pitched in the LL World Series to make it to the majors!!

berryluther
05-04-2007, 10:47 AM
I remember that. And he still won 21 games. Of course, I don't expect that from Milton :D .


Has Milton even won 21 games for us total?

BRM
05-04-2007, 10:51 AM
Has Milton even won 21 games for us total?

He's won 16.

flyer85
05-04-2007, 10:57 AM
Milton didn't lose the game last night. What do you guys want out of a #5 starter. at this point the Reds have a number of likely better options.

IamWallaman
05-04-2007, 11:08 AM
at this point the Reds have a number of likely better options.

"Potentially" better. Livingston got rocked in his MLB experience. Saarloos was deliberately moved to the pen by Oakland. Bailey isn't ready.

That really only leaves Dumatrait... but I'm far from convinced that he would translate into a better MLB pitcher (in comparison to Milton)

As said before, Milton is not the problem. The pitcher's job is to keep the game to 3-4 runs max. Milton has done that every outing this year. Our focus needs to stay on that pen. We're not capable of competing when our pen gives up 2-3+ runs nearly every game.

PuffyPig
05-04-2007, 11:19 AM
Milton has a DIPS ERA this season of 4.55.

No matter how much he is hated, he's not going anywhere until he actually starts pitching much poorer.

Oswalt has a DIPS ERA of 4.20 this year.

For those that believe in DIPS ERA, how do you feel about the fact that this rating system suggests that Milton has picthed close to what Oswalt has done this year?

PuffyPig
05-04-2007, 11:22 AM
[QUOTE=IamWallaman;1329915 Our focus needs to stay on that pen. We're not capable of competing when our pen gives up 2-3+ runs nearly every game.[/QUOTE]

Since our starters have given us an average of about 6.5 innings per start this year, those 2-3+ runs per game would translate into a bullpen ERA of about 9 (2.5 runs in 2.5 innings). Our actual bullpen ERA is about half that. Not good, but not as bad as you suggest.

IamWallaman
05-04-2007, 12:02 PM
Since our starters have given us an average of about 6.5 innings per start this year, those 2-3+ runs per game would translate into a bullpen ERA of about 9 (2.5 runs in 2.5 innings). Our actual bullpen ERA is about half that. Not good, but not as bad as you suggest.

I'm aware of that. That's why I put a "nearly" in there. Even if they are giving up 2-3 runs every other game, that's too much.

Ideally, for the Reds to be successful, they need their starter to give up 3 runs max and their bullpen to give up 1 run max. (or some combination)

I have faith in the starters (currently) to keep them in most of the games... but I've got a dreadful fear of that pen... again. Despite what Narron does, they still have to be capable of keeping things close. It's frustrating beyond measure to see them lose us so many games...

Caveman Techie
05-04-2007, 12:03 PM
Yeah, Milton is not living up to his contract. That is true, but what more can you expect out of your number 5 starter. He hasn't been "rocked" once this year so far. The same can't be said of Harang. Aaron has given up 5 or more earned runs in 3 of his starts. Milton has only given up 4 earned runs once and his other three starts were 3 runs, 2 runs and 2 runs. Granted Milton hasn't pitched as many innings and I wouldn't skip Aaron to pitch Milton, but lets have some objectivity when it comes to the guy.

bucksfan2
05-04-2007, 12:13 PM
Milton has a DIPS ERA this season of 4.55.

No matter how much he is hated, he's not going anywhere until he actually starts pitching much poorer.

Oswalt has a DIPS ERA of 4.20 this year.

For those that believe in DIPS ERA, how do you feel about the fact that this rating system suggests that Milton has picthed close to what Oswalt has done this year?

I really dont care about that stat for one because I dont know what it is and second of all the Reds had the lead in the 8th inning and should have won the game. You can throw out all the stats you want to evaulate a pitcher but in the end its wins and losses. So far this season Milton has pitched well enough to keep the reds competitive in every game. Until Milton falls flat on his face I am fine with him pitching the way he is right now.

vic715
05-04-2007, 12:22 PM
I remember that. And he still won 21 games. Of course, I don't expect that from Milton :D .

Actually Jay was 7-18 in 1963.

indy_dave00
05-04-2007, 12:23 PM
Any stat that compares Eric Milton performance to Roy Oswalt's 4 hitting the Reds on Wednesday is flawed badly.

This review of last nights game pretty much sums up Eric Milton.

Eric Milton gave up seven hits and four runs -- three earned -- in five innings Thursday in a no-decision.
Impact: He struck out one and walked three and has given up at least three runs in every start this season as his ERA has risen to 4.85. Milton stuck around for just 69 pitches, 46 of which were strikes. There's just not much upside here.

He is what he is an overpaid #5 starter , who was a power pitcher and has struggled mightily with lesser stuff. He has worked only 26 innings in 5 starts , only once going 6 innings. At this point you know going in you'll need the bull pen for 4 innings + every time he pitches. As an old timer hard for me to accept starters only being expected to work 5 innings and being considered a successful outing.

Showing my age but in 1970 Jim Merritt was a 20 game winner by early September ,he ended 20-12 with a 4.08 era. The following season he was was winless until Sept. ending 1-11 with a 4.35 era. At times a win/loss record can be misleading because of run support (Bronson Arroyo vs Aaron Harang this season.)

While Eric Milton to some may be pitching okay , his career says he's 87-84 w/l with a 5.01 era now in his 10th big league season. He's not going to get any better, I have to agree with people who say get rid of him even if it means eating salary , his 28-30 starts should be given to someone who might have a future in Cincy beyond this year.

PuffyPig
05-04-2007, 12:37 PM
Any stat that compares Eric Milton performance to Roy Oswalt's 4 hitting the Reds on Wednesday is flawed badly.




It's based largely on BABIP. Which has been proven, more or less, with a lifetime of stats.

Oswalt was very BABIP lucky on Wednesday, Milton unlucky on Thursday.

Oswaly may have pretty good results this year, but if he continues pitching like he has, his ERA will begin to rise. His K's are down, his walks are up. he needs to reverse that trend if he's to continue keeping his ERA in the low 3's.

Ludwig Reds Fan
05-04-2007, 12:41 PM
I agree... for a 5 starter, Milton isnt bad.

bounty37h
05-04-2007, 12:45 PM
I know last night on the game thread that we need to eat his contract, but the truth is, he isn't doing all that bad. It's the bullpen that needs the help.

Brent

I dont know, when you cant ever get past that 5'th inning, you are stretching your bullpen out so long it is bound to be a disaster. A starter need to go more then 5 innings consistently to give the team a chance to win games

indy_dave00
05-04-2007, 12:50 PM
I'll take my chances Roy Oswalt wins 15+ plus games with a 3.50 era or lower over Eric Milton winning 10 games with an era under 4.80.

Stats can be manueved anyway the stat taker wants , I'll take on field results. Oswalt is 4-2 with a 3.06 era this season -- Milton 0-4 with a 4.85 era you tell me those are similar results of effectiveness? Every run Oswalt has allowed 17 in 50 innings has been earned--- Milton has allowed 17 runs 14 earned in 26 innings -- please explain how they are pitching similar and Oswalt is "lucky" while Milton is "unlucky".

Careers Oswalt 102-49 with a 3.05 era -Milton 84-81 with a 5.01 era -- sorry no remote comparison in any way.

If you want to compare Milton to some try Rodriguez of the Astros but to even bring up Oswalt's name in comparison to Milton is totally laughable.

PuffyPig
05-04-2007, 01:03 PM
I'll take my chances Roy Oswalt wins 15+ plus games with a 3.50 era or lower over Eric Milton winning 10 games with an era under 4.80.

Stats can be manueved anyway the stat taker wants , I'll take on field results. Oswalt is 4-2 with a 3.06 era this season -- Milton 0-4 with a 4.85 era you tell me those are similar results of effectiveness? Every run Oswalt has allowed 17 in 50 innings has been earned--- Milton has allowed 17 runs 14 earned in 26 innings -- please explain how they are pitching similar and Oswalt is "lucky" while Milton is "unlucky".

Careers Oswalt 102-49 with a 3.05 era -Milton 84-81 with a 5.01 era -- sorry no remote comparison in any way.

If you want to compare Milton to some try Rodriguez of the Astros but to even bring up Oswalt's name in comparison to Milton is totally laughable.

I'm obviously not trying to compare Milton over Oswalt over the long term, or even this year.

I merely pointed out that Oswalt has been quite lucky this year;not nearly as dominate as he has been in the past.

Also, Milton has actually pitched a little better than his actual results.

I also mentioned that Oswalt was lucky in his last start, and Milton was unlucky. That doesn't mean that Milton outpitched Oswalt, it's just that the difference was as great as it might have appeared.

If you have no understanding of DIPS ERA and BABIP, that's fine. But you shouldn't discount proven methods for that reason alone.

DIPS shows Oswalt at a 4.20 ERA, Milton at 4.55. That's closer than their actual performance.

If you look at their actual stats, you'll see why they are so close.

Oswalt has a 5.22 K rate per 9 innings, Milton 4.85.

Oswalt has a 3.24 W rate per 9 innings, Milton 2.77.

Oswalt has a .77 HR rate per 9 innings, Milton 1.04.

Preety close, but the reason why Milton's ERA is much higher is because hitters are BABIp .328 off him (career average .294), while Oswalt is giving up a .243 BABIP (career .305).

Again, unless Oswalt starts K'ing more and walking less (which is very likely in my view), you'll see his ERA going up as his BABIP likely does).

indy_dave00
05-04-2007, 01:19 PM
Dominate or not Oswalt is a winner in the Greg Maddux mode and will continue to be for many years. Milton is a below average starter. Stats can be slanted anyway you want.

If Milton had a 4.20 actual era as Oswalts adjusted era is - he'd be allowing 9 runs in 21 innings thats 4 starts for him - he'd win games if that was reality.

Sorry Milton should not be in any future plans of the Reds regardless of whatever stats you use. His signing was a huge mistake and sooner he is gone the better.

If he was pitching effective enough no matter what criteria you use it would seem teams would be calling-so far not a peep of any team having any interest in Eric.

Not really trying to be agrumentative Puffy Pig , just saying any criteria that equates Oswalt and Milton is badly flawed.

Chip R
05-04-2007, 01:21 PM
Milton's killing us a little different than he did the last two years. The last two years was like being in a knife fight when the other guy kills you by deep stabs and slashes. This year it's like you get a lot of nicks and small cuts but you dies a slow death because you lose so much blood. Milton's not giving up a lot of home runs but a hit here, a walk there, a double here, a single there adds up.

BRM
05-04-2007, 01:41 PM
Milton's killing us a little different than he did the last two years. The last two years was like being in a knife fight when the other guy kills you by deep stabs and slashes. This year it's like you get a lot of nicks and small cuts but you dies a slow death because you lose so much blood. Milton's not giving up a lot of home runs but a hit here, a walk there, a double here, a single there adds up.

He's allowing almost as many baserunners now as he did in his horrific 2005 season. It's only a matter of time before his ERA starts to climb.

AmarilloRed
05-04-2007, 02:15 PM
He is doing well in the month of April when pitchers do well because of the cold weather. The weather will get warmer and the hitters will also do better, and when that happens Miltons era will inevitably explode. I really hope all of you are right and he can sustain it. I fear that Milton is fools gold, and he will really begin to start hurting us in a division race. I have no ready substitute for him, but I would think any of our AAA starteers would do as well as Milton will when the temperatures begin to heat up.:milton: :explode:

PuffyPig
05-04-2007, 03:32 PM
Not really trying to be agrumentative Puffy Pig , just saying any criteria that equates Oswalt and Milton is badly flawed.

And I'm not trying to equate the two, make no mistake.

My 2 points are:

1. Milton hasn't pitched as bad as he usually does yet. It may well be coming, but it's not here yet.

2. Oswalt hasn't pitched that well this year. He'll need to ramp it up or you'll start noticing the actual difference in the actual results.

Hey Meat
05-04-2007, 03:56 PM
Once he gets that fifth loss, I think it's time for something to happen. Send him to the bullpen or DFA. Thank God we are almost through with him. Move on down the road, get another tattoo of your new team, but use some of that "Wrecking balm" stuff to take off the tattoos of your previous teams.

GSURedsfan
05-04-2007, 04:03 PM
I dont know, when you cant ever get past that 5'th inning, you are stretching your bullpen out so long it is bound to be a disaster. A starter need to go more then 5 innings consistently to give the team a chance to win games

Good point, I didn't think about it like that.

Brent

jimbo
05-04-2007, 04:25 PM
As said before, Milton is not the problem. The pitcher's job is to keep the game to 3-4 runs max. Milton has done that every outing this year. Our focus needs to stay on that pen. We're not capable of competing when our pen gives up 2-3+ runs nearly every game.

Another job of a starting pitcher is to at least make it through the 6th inning, which Milton has only done once in five starts. The guy is a walking timebomb. It isn't a matter of if it happens, but when. If this management is serious about winning this season, Milton should never make another appearance for this team.

redsmetz
05-04-2007, 04:47 PM
Another job of a starting pitcher is to at least make it through the 6th inning, which Milton has only done once in five starts. The guy is a walking timebomb. It isn't a matter of if it happens, but when. If this management is serious about winning this season, Milton should never make another appearance for this team.

It's so simple for us to say things like this. And many of us keeping saying it over and over and over again - aside from not making it into the sixth inning, Milton has kept us in every game he's pitched. We've been saddled with this contract for three years, it's almost up. If they can trade him, they will, but I don't see them just spitting out $9 Million dollars. And that doesn't mean they're not serious about winning.

Oi Vey!

jimbo
05-04-2007, 05:13 PM
It's so simple for us to say things like this. And many of us keeping saying it over and over and over again - aside from not making it into the sixth inning, Milton has kept us in every game he's pitched. We've been saddled with this contract for three years, it's almost up. If they can trade him, they will, but I don't see them just spitting out $9 Million dollars. And that doesn't mean they're not serious about winning.

Oi Vey!

I usually agree with you redsmetz, but I can't this time. I would characterize Milton as "keeping us in games" as stretching it. If he was going as deep as 6 or 7 innings, that point might be valid in my eyes. He is barely hanging on enough to get into the 5th inning and that isn't acceptable even for a 5th starter. I would also agree if I was able to see some ability, but his stuff so far this season has been extremely mediocre. 85 mph fastballs and 80 mph breaking pitches with little movement is a recipe for disaster.

I realize that dumping that kind of money is pretty hard to do, but they have to pay him whether he plays or not and if he is hurting the team more than helping, than there is only one logical choice IMO.

redsmetz
05-04-2007, 05:48 PM
I usually agree with you redsmetz, but I can't this time. I would characterize Milton as "keeping us in games" as stretching it. If he was going as deep as 6 or 7 innings, that point might be valid in my eyes. He is barely hanging on enough to get into the 5th inning and that isn't acceptable even for a 5th starter. I would also agree if I was able to see some ability, but his stuff so far this season has been extremely mediocre. 85 mph fastballs and 80 mph breaking pitches with little movement is a recipe for disaster.

I realize that dumping that kind of money is pretty hard to do, but they have to pay him whether he plays or not and if he is hurting the team more than helping, than there is only one logical choice IMO.

Perhaps "keeping us in games" isn't the right way to put it. I see the Milton situation as a very expensive problem that you can't just flush - that is a lot of money. But I think in the games he's pitched, things have been close enough that we could have won any number of those games with any amount of offense.

Were they works of art? Was he reminding anyone of Tom Seaver? No, heck he's not even reminding anyone of Hoyt Wilhelm or Wilbur Wood! And no question, even being in the game has been a bit of luck. But in at least three of his starts, the offense was AWOL. And I think if we can't find someone to trade him to, then we have to hope for the best, which is what we've gotten - games we could win if the offense did its job.

That's all I'm saying. He's given us a chance to win every game he's pitched this year, as ugly as those outings have been. I don't think that's unreasonable to hope to make the best of a bad situation inherited from the previous management. After this year, let's wish him good luck and we can all move on. But I'll be very surprised if they just dump Eric.

VR
05-04-2007, 06:07 PM
I think it's just a matter of keeping him around long enough to get someone to eat part of that contract. The league is starter-thin this year...and a couple mediocre starts might get him traded in June or July w/ the partner picking up at least a bit of the contract.

zombielady
05-04-2007, 08:23 PM
Crazy talk.

Milty is our 5th starter... He has been giving us a soild 5 innings of baseball.



I think you meant "Solid" but truthfully your typo is more on point... His pitching is definitely soild

AmarilloRed
05-05-2007, 04:09 PM
I did mention I thought we should try and put Milton in the bullpen-I think that is a viable option with the way our bullpen has performed. He cant seem to go longer than 5 innings, so bring him in in the 7th 0r 8th inning.:doh:

Chris Sabowned
05-05-2007, 04:12 PM
I couldn't imagine trading him cause who would take on his contract? Maybe the Yankees with all their injured pitchers, but outside of that who wants him?

AmarilloRed
05-06-2007, 02:50 AM
The Cardinals have lost Carpenter-theyre truly desperate.

zombielady
05-08-2007, 04:56 PM
I couldn't imagine trading him cause who would take on his contract? Maybe the Yankees with all their injured pitchers, but outside of that who wants him?

the yankees- "yeah, we'll stick with the injured pitchers, thanks..." :evil:

Chip R
05-08-2007, 05:06 PM
The Cardinals have lost Carpenter-theyre truly desperate.


And watch Dave Duncan perform a miracle on him.

BucksandReds
05-08-2007, 07:47 PM
if someone would take his contract I say dump him for nothing.

jimbo
05-08-2007, 08:21 PM
Geez, this guy has to go. He has no zip on his "fastball" and no break on his breaking pitches. Every one of his pitches looks the same. He's a batting practice pitcher.

Cut him.