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View Full Version : Interesting Quotes -- Assessing Blame



WMR
05-04-2007, 02:27 AM
So do we have anything at AAA to get Stanton out of here?

This BP is horrible...Yes, me, I am saying this, the guy who still believes that Special K had a great idea but it has backfired and now we need some BP help.


and the Reds get to pay Stanton a lot of money next year :thumbup:


A huge percentage of the board saw the Stanton pickup as dumb. What the hell does that say about the GM?


I said that before spring training(and included Cormier and Weathers). I really don't mind Weathers but he needs to be gone so Jerry can't pitch him at the back of the pen.


Agree 100%. I've been saying it for months. Wayne has spent countless hours, millions of dollars and useful players to get the bullpen where it is today. How sad is that?


I've made my opinion on these old guys known.

Wayne has said countless times that he is "ON THE SAME PAGE AS NARRON."

Blaming Narron while giving Krivsky a pass for this mess is disingenuous.

KoryMac5
05-04-2007, 08:05 AM
Narron has serviceable guys in this bullpen he chooses to use them in totally the wrong way. Their is absolutely no way in hell Stanton should pitch to Scott in that situation. Luke Scott was hitting lefties at a clip of .426 and under .200 against righties. It was apparent to all of us that Stanton didn't have his stuff against the first two batters he faced, yet Jerry stayed the course. Wayne gets 100% of the blame for his 50% of this relationship, for his continued work on this bullpen. He is basically putting a band aid on a sucking chest wound.

dabvu2498
05-04-2007, 08:13 AM
Narron has serviceable guys in this bullpen he chooses to use them in totally the wrong way. Their is absolutely no way in hell Stanton should pitch to Scott in that situation. Luke Scott was hitting lefties at a clip of .426 and under .200 against righties. It was apparent to all of us that Stanton didn't have his stuff against the first two batters he faced, yet Jerry stayed the course. Wayne gets 100% of the blame for his 50% of this relationship, for his continued work on this bullpen. He is basically putting a band aid on a sucking chest wound.

The numbers you have for Scott are for this year. 7 ABs vs. LHP. In his career he's OPSing .754 vs. LHP, .954 vs. RHP. I'd have gone with a lefty, even if he's had success vs. lefty's in his previous 7 ABs.

I keep hearing this "Narron uses his bullpen in the wrong way" stuff. "He puts them in bad situations" stuff. How about this? How about when you get put in the game, you produce? Doesn't matter what inning it is... how many guys are on base... what position in the order you might be hitting... produce!

I'm drawing the conclusion that some of those guys just aren't good enough (anymore). We learned the hard way with Cormier. I fear that we'll learn the hard way with a couple others.

REDREAD
05-04-2007, 03:09 PM
I give Wayne about 90% of the blame for the bullpen mess. Narron maybe only gets 10%.

Oftentimes, Narron is left decided which gas can to toss on the bonfire.
I don't agree with some of Narron's decisions, but a lot of time, all you can do is shrug and realize that he doesn't have a good option many times.

Wayne didn't inherit any bullpen albotrosses.. There was no immovable Danny Graves types when he arrived.. Every member in this bullpen is here because Wayne wants him here. That's why I feel 90% of the blame goes to Wayne for these late inning meltdowns. It was stupid to think that Weathers-Stanton-Cormier-Maj would be a solid bullpen core.

jimbo
05-04-2007, 03:18 PM
The numbers you have for Scott are for this year. 7 ABs vs. LHP. In his career he's OPSing .754 vs. LHP, .954 vs. RHP. I'd have gone with a lefty, even if he's had success vs. lefty's in his previous 7 ABs.


Combine that with the fact that lefties were only hitting .222 against Stanton before last night. Leaving Stanton in to pitch to Scott was a sound decision in my book, he just failed to get the job done.

Marc D
05-04-2007, 03:22 PM
I'm as big a Narron basher as there is but I honestly don't hold that pen against him. He's playing Russian roulette every night with only a small say in how many bullets they put in the gun.

KoryMac5
05-04-2007, 04:07 PM
The numbers you have for Scott are for this year. 7 ABs vs. LHP. In his career he's OPSing .754 vs. LHP, .954 vs. RHP. I'd have gone with a lefty, even if he's had success vs. lefty's in his previous 7 ABs.

I keep hearing this "Narron uses his bullpen in the wrong way" stuff. "He puts them in bad situations" stuff. How about this? How about when you get put in the game, you produce? Doesn't matter what inning it is... how many guys are on base... what position in the order you might be hitting... produce!

I'm drawing the conclusion that some of those guys just aren't good enough (anymore). We learned the hard way with Cormier. I fear that we'll learn the hard way with a couple others.

I disagree Narron knowing that the first two hitters Stanton faced reached should have pulled him. It doesn't take me two batters to know somebody doesn't have it. If you still want a lefty go with Countlangus. Most of these guys can't cut it so how do you expect them to produce in the situations you put them in. Under that theory Cormier should still be here and producing.

flyer85
05-04-2007, 04:16 PM
Jerry was dealt a bad hand with the pen. It just isn't in his makeup to do what he really needs to and that is turn it upside down. He will only remove Stanton and Weathers from the back of the pen roles when there is no other choice left.

Kc61
05-04-2007, 04:37 PM
Don't want to be an apologist for Stanton, who obviously pitched terribly last night. However, lately the guy has hardly been used. The previous night he went out there and immediately picked a guy off, didn't throw a pitch. He only has 7.2 innings all season. Some relievers need more work to stay sharp.

I can't help think that last night, after not pitching much lately, that was not a good spot for Stanton. If used regularly, I think we will be ok. Of course, I don't think he and Weathers should be the main late inning relievers. But if used properly they can both be effective.

The problem is twofold. First, you have to use relievers properly, thinking through when they are likely to be effective. Among the considerations is whether a pitcher is rusty. Other considerations are matchups, etc.

The second problem is that Reds relievers are all being placed in situations that are not optimal because the team lacks a true closer and a true eighth inning set up man.

I envision Stanton and Weathers as middle relievers who can throw in the late innings when the main guys are tired. Right now, there are no main guys.

flyer85
05-04-2007, 04:50 PM
I envision Stanton and Weathers as middle relieverson their best days.


Right now, there are no main guys.Never know whithout giving others a chance. In the long run the simple answer is that guys who miss bats are almost always a better bet.

Kc61
05-04-2007, 04:58 PM
on their best days.

Never know whithout giving others a chance. In the long run the simple answer is that guys who miss bats are almost always a better bet.

I think you need a mixture. Some guys who "miss bats." Some guys who have been through the wars, are not afraid to pitch, and most importantly won't walk guys in key spots because of nervousness and inexperience.

I also don't favor a tryout camp for young relievers.

But a manager needs to know his relievers, when they are likely to succeed, when they are rusty, tired, overused, off their game, not feeling well, etc. I sometimes wonder if the Reds do a good job in this respect.

flyer85
05-04-2007, 05:05 PM
But a manager needs to know his relievers, when they are likely to succeed, when they are rusty, tired, overused, off their game, not feeling well, etc. I sometimes wonder if the Reds do a good job in this respect.Narron tends to overuse the ones he he thinks are the best. There is a reason Coffey has almost double the innings of other pitchers in the pen. He is the best short term and long term bet at the moment (we haven't seen enough of Salmon yet).