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View Full Version : Why the Losing Streak?



WVRedsFan
05-06-2007, 01:46 AM
Four games in a row that have taken us from an even 13-13 to 13-7 before we knew it. Why?

I was trying to burn off some frustration after watching the Reds tonight and found that our starters and our bullpen have killed. Not to mention a certain shortstop who was hot and now is not. Lookie here:


Starters IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
21 32 17 16 9 18 1 6.86
Bullpen 13 16 8 8 10 10 2 5.54


Though we've scored only 17 runs in the 4 games, the first one against Oswalt only netted one run, but that's an average of 4.25 per game--just about where we've been all year. But with the starters falling apart, it wasn't enough. They alone gave up 17 runs and the bullpen gave up another 8, for a total of 25 or 6.25 per game. A good recipe for failure. We expect the bully to be bad, but our starters were absolutely horrible.

Then there was that one aspect that doesn't matter, the lineup. For instance, while he was hot, he was batted up in the order. Well, he cooled off. In the four games, he was 2-16 or a .125 average. Why is he hitting ahead of Hamilton or Dunn? No one paying attention? Hatteberg, known to be a high OPB hitter played in three games and went 2-10 hitting first or second. Hamilton only got 13 AB's, but also got 6 hits. Hitting down in the order he drove in no runs. None. Surprisingly, Narron's whipping boy, EdE was 3-10 (.300) with a run, a homer, and 2 RBI's. and he only started two games.

The bright spots were Griffey at 6-16 with 4 RBI's and Norris Hopper going 3-3 pinch hitting.

It's another slump. Unfortunately, the offense is almost the same, save a little tweaking of the batting order (which doesn't make any difference according to some), but the starters failed us. We expect the bullpen to do that. And they did.

reds44
05-06-2007, 02:09 AM
It's pitching and defense. The offense has been pretty good for the 4 games.

Edwin and Hamilton have to be in there everyday, they are the future.

Narron does not like Edwin. Why? Only he knows. Not scrappy enough.

WVRedsFan
05-06-2007, 02:21 AM
It's pitching and defense. The offense has been pretty good for the 4 games.

Edwin and Hamilton have to be in there everyday, they are the future.

Narron does not like Edwin. Why? Only he knows. Not scrappy enough.

You answered your own question. Defense. Not that I think it's so bad, he's learning. But for a guy who places an emphasis on efense and experience, he probably sees Edwin as just too young to trust. He doesn't have that same feeling for Hamilton becasue he's his kid--he and his brohter brought him here. So, the failings of Hamilton (though there have been few) are acceptable to Narron, but Eddie's are not.

Jerry Narron is a complicated man. I do not understand him. I don't know who does, for that matter.

RedsMan3203
05-06-2007, 02:26 AM
I personally thought EdE D has improved. Am I really that WRONG? I don't catch THAT many games... But I thought he has improved other then a few throws here and there.

Compared to last year, how are the errors to this year?

reds44
05-06-2007, 02:26 AM
You answered your own question. Defense. Not that I think it's so bad, he's learning. But for a guy who places an emphasis on efense and experience, he probably sees Edwin as just too young to trust. He doesn't have that same feeling for Hamilton becasue he's his kid--he and his brohter brought him here. So, the failings of Hamilton (though there have been few) are acceptable to Narron, but Eddie's are not.

Jerry Narron is a complicated man. I do not understand him. I don't know who does, for that matter.
Freel's not exactly playing gold glove D at 3rd either.

Fielding Percentage @ 3rd:
Freel (35 innings): .867
Edwin (212 innings): .930

If EE's not in the lineup tomorrow, I may lose my mind.

reds44
05-06-2007, 02:27 AM
I personally thought EdE D has improved. Am I really that WRONG? I don't catch THAT many games... But I thought he has improved other then a few throws here and there.

Compared to last year, how are the errors to this year?
He's improved, there's no doubt. Narron's putting him on an even shorter leash this year because he is off to a slow start with the bat. He's coming around though.

Screwball
05-06-2007, 02:46 AM
But for a guy who places an emphasis on efense and experience, he probably sees Edwin as just too young to trust. He doesn't have that same feeling for Hamilton becasue he's his kid--he and his brohter brought him here. So, the failings of Hamilton (though there have been few) are acceptable to Narron, but Eddie's are not.

Jerry Narron is a complicated man. I do not understand him. I don't know who does, for that matter.

I'm not sure where you're getting the notion that the Narrons brought Hamilton here, because that's simply not true. That was Krivsky's idea without the input of the Narrons (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070401/SPT04/704010397/-1/openingday). Also, compare these two lines:

JH: .296/.394/.605/.999
EE: .231/.300/.308/.608

Add in the following factors:

JH has more runs, doubles, home runs, total bases and RBIs.
Freel needs playing time, and EE has made some very costly errors recently, whereas Hamilton has been sparkling with the leather.

I really don't see how Narron is to blame here. With Dunn and Griffey solid at the plate, the obvious choice is to start Freel at 3rd in place of Edwin for the time being. EE will get his chances in upcoming games, but when you have as poor a month as Edwin had, lineup changes like we saw tonight will happen.

WVRedsFan
05-06-2007, 03:51 AM
I'm not sure where you're getting the notion that the Narrons brought Hamilton here, because that's simply not true. That was Krivsky's idea without the input of the Narrons (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070401/SPT04/704010397/-1/openingday). Also, compare these two lines:

JH: .296/.394/.605/.999
EE: .231/.300/.308/.608

Add in the following factors:

JH has more runs, doubles, home runs, total bases and RBIs.
Freel needs playing time, and EE has made some very costly errors recently, whereas Hamilton has been sparkling with the leather.

I really don't see how Narron is to blame here. With Dunn and Griffey solid at the plate, the obvious choice is to start Freel at 3rd in place of Edwin for the time being. EE will get his chances in upcoming games, but when you have as poor a month as Edwin had, lineup changes like we saw tonight will happen.

No blame intended and I said their were few flaws with Hamilton. The rest is a matter of public record. Hamilton was only used as a reference for young vs. old players.

storrs19
05-06-2007, 07:46 AM
I blame it on the bullpen, as usual. They have lost three out of our last four for us. God help us all if we don't have a 10 run lead when they come in. I was chatting with a friend on the phone last night when Harrang left with and I said well The Rockies will have 10 runs before it is over...I wasn't too far off.

Anyone remember what Marty said about Greg Maddux the other night? He has gone 3-0 on only 18 batters in his lifetime. That is an insanely tremendous figure. That is CONTROL.

James B.
05-06-2007, 11:30 AM
I have been pleasantly suprised with the starting pitching this year. They have kept us in almost every game. When the bullpen comes in, things usually fall apart.

corkedbat
05-06-2007, 11:59 AM
Thi is a team with very little margin for error.

reds44
05-06-2007, 12:42 PM
I'm not sure where you're getting the notion that the Narrons brought Hamilton here, because that's simply not true. That was Krivsky's idea without the input of the Narrons (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070401/SPT04/704010397/-1/openingday). Also, compare these two lines:

JH: .296/.394/.605/.999
EE: .231/.300/.308/.608

Add in the following factors:

JH has more runs, doubles, home runs, total bases and RBIs.
Freel needs playing time, and EE has made some very costly errors recently, whereas Hamilton has been sparkling with the leather.

I really don't see how Narron is to blame here. With Dunn and Griffey solid at the plate, the obvious choice is to start Freel at 3rd in place of Edwin for the time being. EE will get his chances in upcoming games, but when you have as poor a month as Edwin had, lineup changes like we saw tonight will happen.
It's the 6th of May, and he's on a 6 game hitting streak.

Edwin hit .276/.359/.473 last year. In only 206 ABs, he led the team in doubles with 33. He also led the team in RBIs per AB, and had 17 homers. Oh yeah, he was in his first full year in the majors.

Falls City Beer
05-06-2007, 12:45 PM
Defense is sufficient.

Pitching. Just get it lodged in your head like Stockholm Syndrome.

Pitching.

Pitching. Everything returns to pitching. Just like every decision in human existence is driven by money or sex. Every bit of this team's fate is predicated on the performance of its pitching.

jnwohio
05-06-2007, 02:16 PM
Thi is a team with very little margin for error.

Agreed. The bullpen stands out of late but the margin for error is slim all around.

Just look at the cheap runs last nite that did not involve the bullpen. The first two Rockies' runs were absolute gifts. Harang gets careless with the opposing pitcher and gives up a lead off double. Nobody covers first on a bunt by Tavares (they were caught unawares by this?!?). Then the runs score on a ground out and infield single which sandwiched a K. This should at the worst been a 1 run inning and really should have been a zero inning.


Then in that fatefull 6th, there is a walk and a 2 run single on an 0-2 pitch before Coffey gets in there to deliver the gopher pitcher. And of course just before the homer there was the botched play when the guy escaped on the pitchout.

I saw where one of the beat guys wrote the other day that the team is playing just bad enough to lose. That is pretty apt right now I think.

redram
05-06-2007, 03:19 PM
It is the Bullpen. Does anyone here feel like we will win with only a 2 or 3 run lead from the 7th inning on if we have to go to the Pen. We need young arms and try and stay away from all the old-timers like we seem to have gotten used to doing the past couple years. Also why in the C@@P is Phillips batting cleanup. Last night with a right hander on the mound either Dunn or Grif or even Hamilton should have filled that spot. I know he does not want to put that pressure on Hamilton right now, but I really question Phillips being there. The worst thing that could have happened is him hitting those early Home Runs, now he seems to be swinging for the fences every AB and usually on the first pitch.

Right now this team just is not good enough to compete for a championship, and until we get a 5th starter (not Milton) and a better Pen it will only get worse. We will win games from time to time that we score 8 to 10 runs but the close games are kicking our tail. We may be 4-3 in one run games, but many times this year the Bullpen has taken a Reds 2 or 3 run lead and turned it into a 3 or 4 run loss.