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View Full Version : It's time to call up Homer



GOREDSGO32
05-06-2007, 03:09 AM
He needs to be put in Belilse spot, Belilse needs to go into the bullpen, and take the spot of one of these guys who are getting rocked. :bang:

RedsMan3203
05-06-2007, 03:13 AM
Pass.

We have better options for the pen....

WK can't sit on his hands much longer...

Coffey(people have trouble with his name for some odd reason) still has options I believe. There is 1 spot open to bring someone up. Santos can be relased without harm... there is a 2nd spot.

We are going to see a roster move for the pen soon because Burton's Rehab is coming to an end... Who knows who is going where.

PS - I'm not saying we should send Coffey down, just stating that he COULD be sent down without the risk of losing him.

dougdirt
05-06-2007, 03:16 AM
Bad idea. Bailey isnt ready. What I want to know is why we don't go into the minors and bring up some bullpen guys. There are guys in AA and AAA who seriously can't be any worse than what we are running out there. We have the worst bullpen in baseball and its not really close. It can NOT hurt anything to reach down and bring up a Calvin Medlock from AA or a Marcus McBeth from Louisville.

RedsMan3203
05-06-2007, 03:23 AM
I'm with yah Doug - Buuuuut how we getting them up here?

WK has already let 1 pitcher go that he signed for more then 1 year, isn't Staton on 2 years? That would be a 2nd. At this point I'm willing to try anything.. But I don't want to get snake bitten by jumping the gun.

And even with Santos track record... I'm not going to jump the gun on him yet.. He gets a few get out of jail cards to use.

Caveat Emperor
05-06-2007, 05:16 AM
He needs to be put in Belilse spot, Belilse needs to go into the bullpen, and take the spot of one of these guys who are getting rocked. :bang:

If you put Homer Bailey in the rotation, he'll have to be kept on strict pitch counts. I wouldn't want to see him throw more than 95 pitches in a game, no matter how well he was doing. He'd basically be, at this point in his career, a 5/6 inning pitcher.

Even if we throw Belisle's health issues out the window (notably the fact that he seems to pitch better with more rest for his back), it still doesn't make sense to have 2 guys in the rotation (Milton & Bailey) who each will require significant bullpen help in their starts.

sonny
05-06-2007, 05:31 AM
If you put Homer Bailey in the rotation, he'll have to be kept on strict pitch counts.

he's not pitching that much more than 5 innings in LOU. The FO (and us)should be very patient in Homer's development. It would be very sad to see him come up too soon and be another Ryan Wagner. The last thing we need is Homer to be a RZ whipping boy.:cry:

mth123
05-06-2007, 06:18 AM
I'd say no on Homer for now and Belisle needs to stay in the rotation. Right now establishing him as a reasonable back of the rotation starter seems more important than using him as a band aid for the pen.

As far as the Bullpen goes, I think it was a longshot to think that Santos would establish himself as a reliable option given his track record as a starter, but other pitchers have gone from lousey starter to good reliever so it was worth a shot with many hurt in a pen that has projected to be crummy since December. Now with Burton and then Bray due back soon and McBeth possibly ready for a call-up, there isn't room for the experiment to continue much longer.

I'd be ok with a quick 10 day stint for Coffey in AAA to see if he gets on a roll, but I wouldn't keep him down there any longer than that. That may temporarily buy some time to alleviate the logjam, but it isn't the answer for making room. Stanton and Weathers probably aren't going anywhere, so, as much as I'd like to see Stanton gone, I'll assume its not an option.

So... how does the team make room for Burton, Bray and hopefully McBeth? Coutlangus probably goes down when Bray is ready. I wouldn't mind seeing him stay and think he looks like a decent option as a lefty specialist, but he has options and won't be missed that much at this point. As far as Burton and McBeth go, it looks like Santos is going to get caught in the numbers and this team really needs to part with Saarloos somehow. With all the teams out there looking for guys to plug in the rotation he should be shopped. His contract isn't prohibitive and he's really not any better than anyone we have. His lack of K's (although they've been decent this year so far), his high walks and propensity to get behind in the count and serve up a fat one screams AAAA player who gets by on fooling guys with movement. Problem is, he only fools guys who are easily fooled. A guy who is AAAA seems like an option for a number of teams right now, but the Reds have better options (dare I say including Eric Milton). He might prove to be an OK pen guy in a 10th or 11th man kind of way if his K rates hold up (historically better in relief) but the Reds need power arms and he's a soft tosser.

So my hope is, in with Burton, Bray and McBeth out with Saarloos and Santos. Coutlangus goes to AAA.

storrs19
05-06-2007, 07:38 AM
I would certainly give Bailey or Livingston a chance with at least three starts and I would put Milton in the bullpen. I don't care whether he likes it or not. He will do as told or he can sit. We have lost our $9 million on him so why continue to run him out every fifth day for a guaranteed loss. Overall Belisle and Loshe have pitched much better than Milton has. Sadly the real problem with this team is not the starters though, it is the bullpen and I don't think we have much in the well to draw from.

Kc61
05-06-2007, 10:30 AM
Maybe pitch Coffey more wisely, rather than three games in a row with a lot of pitches.

This is the price you pay for constantly moving relievers in and out of the game. You run out of alternatives.

Probably the only move left is to replace Santos, and that will likely be Majewski when he returns from bereavement. When Bray is ready (a month from now?) another move gets made.

Then we have to see if Stanton gets it going. If not, he could be in jeopardy. I don't see Weathers going anywhere. And keep in mind Guardado will be back soon, perhaps also in a month.

But for now, you can't overwork guys this much and expect them to do well. I don't see Coffey going anywhere.

WMR
05-06-2007, 10:35 AM
Yeah let's start his arbitration clock so he can be a "finger in the dike" of this godawful team.

hebroncougar
05-06-2007, 10:46 AM
Maybe pitch Coffey more wisely, rather than three games in a row with a lot of pitches.

This is the price you pay for constantly moving relievers in and out of the game. You run out of alternatives.

Probably the only move left is to replace Santos, and that will likely be Majewski when he returns from bereavement. When Bray is ready (a month from now?) another move gets made.

Then we have to see if Stanton gets it going. If not, he could be in jeopardy. I don't see Weathers going anywhere. And keep in mind Guardado will be back soon, perhaps also in a month.

But for now, you can't overwork guys this much and expect them to do well. I don't see Coffey going anywhere.

Ding, ding, ding!! We have a winner! Manage your bullpen better, and it'll get better. How much? I don't know, but give them all defined roles, and keep them there. Don't use Saarloos one day in the fifth, the next day in the eighth, and the next day in the 4th. Keep Coffey and Stanton in the setup roles. Get spot time for Salmon and Countlangous, keep Saarloos in long reliefe, and Santos pitches with nothing on the line. And get them days off. You guys think it's bad now? We are just starting our 33 in 34 game days. If Arroyo and Harang can't go 7-8 innings each time out, it's gonna get worse, and a whole lot worse, real fast. I wanted to post a thread yesterday before the game started (and forgot) about how important Harang's start was, and if he was going to be our horse type stud, yesterday was the type of game he needed to go 8 innings and only throw 110 pitches to give the pen most of the night off. Arroyo really needs to get that done today. Especially with the Houston series coming up.

Degenerate39
05-06-2007, 10:56 AM
Wait till June to call him up.

Degenerate39
05-06-2007, 11:05 AM
Yeah let's start his arbitration clock so he can be a "finger in the dike" of this godawful team.

http://www.moviejustice.com/images/movievault/scarfface3.jpg

"Put cho finger in the dike?"

redsmetz
05-06-2007, 11:07 AM
Coffey(people have trouble with his name for some odd reason)

Especially when we have the battery of Coffee & Valentine! :eek:

rotnoid
05-06-2007, 11:09 AM
Yeah let's start his arbitration clock so he can be a "finger in the dike" of this godawful team.

Amen. This team is not built to contend now, but the organization is being built to win later. It makes no sense to raise Bailey's price down the road any sooner than is absolutely necessary. That being said, if this team was a contender, and he'd make an immediate impact (I'm not sold on that either), it's a risk you take then. But not now.

BlfdVaFan
05-06-2007, 11:22 AM
Fix the pen before you even think about Homer. Even if he gives you 6 good innings the current pen blows the game so what was the point in bringing him up?

BEETTLEBUG
05-06-2007, 11:22 AM
I don't think Homer is ready yet but a guy at work said bring him up let him pitch three or four starts maybe get his bell rung then say go down and get the things you need to work on fix and we will bring you back.

hebroncougar
05-06-2007, 11:24 AM
I don't think Homer is ready yet but a guy at work said bring him up let him pitch three or four starts maybe get his bell rung then say go down and get the things you need to work on fix and we will bring you back.

That guy at work isn't real bright. All you need to do is look at his K/BB ratio in AAA and you can tell what he needs to work on. No bell ringing needed.

WMR
05-06-2007, 11:25 AM
Ring my bell-l-l, ring my bell

WMR
05-06-2007, 11:27 AM
That guy at work isn't real bright.

Low watt bulb.

BEETTLEBUG
05-06-2007, 03:25 PM
Yes that is true the guy is factory worker not a scout.

BoydsOfSummer
05-06-2007, 05:00 PM
Let's leave Homey where he is and let him work on that change-up. There is a huge probability of him getting rocked if he comes up now. The more experience and baseeball maturity he arrives with the better.

reds44
05-06-2007, 05:02 PM
Bad idea. Bailey isnt ready. What I want to know is why we don't go into the minors and bring up some bullpen guys. There are guys in AA and AAA who seriously can't be any worse than what we are running out there. We have the worst bullpen in baseball and its not really close. It can NOT hurt anything to reach down and bring up a Calvin Medlock from AA or a Marcus McBeth from Louisville.
Preach it brother. McBeth and Medlock are the 2 best options to call up right now.

Homer's K rate and K/BB ratio screams not ready right now.

Doro
05-06-2007, 05:12 PM
All reports say he isnt ready. He doesnt go deep into games and apparently needs to learn to throw his breaking stuff for strikes and hit his spots with his fastball.

Stingray
05-06-2007, 09:10 PM
No!

Always Red
05-06-2007, 10:19 PM
What about using Homer as a closer, ala Jonathon Papelbon? It would solve a lot of problems, if it worked. The Reds have some other guys that might fit the 5th SP role, Dumatrait, Saarloos, Livingston, to name a few.

I have no idea if Homer's stuff would be suited to relief or not. I know it sure didn't stunt Papelbon's development to put him in the 'pen, though!

hebroncougar
05-06-2007, 11:01 PM
What about using Homer as a closer, ala Jonathon Papelbon? It would solve a lot of problems, if it worked. The Reds have some other guys that might fit the 5th SP role, Dumatrait, Saarloos, Livingston, to name a few.

I have no idea if Homer's stuff would be suited to relief or not. I know it sure didn't stunt Papelbon's development to put him in the 'pen, though!

I tried suggesting that back in spring training, and some guys ripped me on here for it, and made some pretty valid reasons as to why. For one, Homer's too young to put his arm through the trauma of switching and learning a whole different pitching routine (2 out of 3 days, or such). And Papelbon was 26-27 years old last year and could handle that. Homer's only 20-21.

AmarilloRed
05-07-2007, 01:52 AM
Homer will still need another couple of months before he joins the starting rotation. We really need help now with our bullpen.