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View Full Version : The End of Eric Milton as a Red?



reds44
05-08-2007, 08:50 PM
Was this his last start?

We can only hope.

jimbo
05-08-2007, 08:52 PM
I think it's a safe bet.

Redskinalum02
05-08-2007, 08:54 PM
Please please please let it be his last...:bang: :bang: :bang:

edabbs44
05-08-2007, 08:55 PM
He can share a cab with Castro and Stanton.

Reds Freak
05-08-2007, 08:56 PM
The team cannot seriously pretend that they want to contend this year by sending him out there every 5th day. He may be the best guy in the world and I have defended him against some here in the past but the guy gives the team zero chance of winning.

Although it seems like a safe bet, do we have any evidence of that?

justincredible
05-08-2007, 08:58 PM
I can't believe he has pitched a no-hitter in his career.

I really hope this is his last start as a Red but I won't hold my breath. Blue isn't a good color for me.

redsfan4445
05-08-2007, 09:01 PM
I can't believe he has pitched a no-hitter in his career.

I really hope this is his last start as a Red but I won't hold my breath. Blue isn't a good color for me.

if you see the video of his no-hitter, thats the Milton i wish was here.. HE drove towards the plate, this milton refusesd too and leaves his pitches up to be killed!!

CTA513
05-08-2007, 09:06 PM
I can't believe he has pitched a no-hitter in his career.

I really hope this is his last start as a Red but I won't hold my breath. Blue isn't a good color for me.

He used to throw around 94, now he is throwing around 86-88.

justincredible
05-08-2007, 09:07 PM
He used to throw around 94, now he is throwing around 86-88.

I realize he used to be a better pitcher, it's just hard to believe after what we have seen of him in a Reds uniform.

KronoRed
05-08-2007, 09:13 PM
Still not awful enough to send out.

Degenerate39
05-08-2007, 09:18 PM
They won't get rid of Milton. We'll be stuck with him for the rest of the season unless they put him on the DL.

KronoRed
05-08-2007, 09:21 PM
They won't get rid of Milton. We'll be stuck with him for the rest of the season unless they put him on the DL.

Or if he starts giving up more runs then innings pitched, apparently if he keeps it at 1 an inning he's doing "ok" :help:

edabbs44
05-08-2007, 09:23 PM
The team cannot seriously pretend that they want to contend this year by sending him out there every 5th day. He may be the best guy in the world and I have defended him against some here in the past but the guy gives the team zero chance of winning.

Although it seems like a safe bet, do we have any evidence of that?

The team hasn't shown much in the way of improving the team. Contract extensions, sure. But not by adding real deal talent.

hebroncougar
05-08-2007, 09:24 PM
End, what are you talking about??? He should be a regular pinch hitter. :)

justincredible
05-08-2007, 09:26 PM
Uncle Milty is much better with the bat than he is on the mound. It certainly isn't saying much, though.

Handofdeath
05-08-2007, 09:27 PM
He used to throw around 94, now he is throwing around 86-88.
Too bad that's in kilometers.

RedsFanWC
05-08-2007, 09:30 PM
Please let Milton go before the west coast road trip, please

Im really hoping that livingston comes up and takes his place, guy had a great spring, is off to a great start at AAA (hasnt won yet but has pitched really well) and has one everywhere he has gone

With Livingston in the rotation, for the first time since 1999 I would be confident the reds could win everytime they take the field (or at least have a lead until the 8th inning, the bullpen is another story)

Hey Meat
05-08-2007, 10:43 PM
He kept us in the game after a bad first couple innings. I say get rid of a majority of our bullpen.

goreds2
05-08-2007, 10:50 PM
He kept us in the game after a bad first couple innings. I say get rid of a majority of our bullpen.

Very nice comment. "He is, what he is"...A fifth starter. He is over paid but for a fifth starter, he is not bad.

redsfanmia
05-09-2007, 11:03 AM
Why bash Milton? The guy has been bashed enough and really is doing a decent job this season. He has kept the team in all of they games he has pitched in so really that all you can ask for from a fifth starter.

Joseph
05-09-2007, 11:13 AM
It doesn't matter who the fifth starter is, how much he is paid, or how fast his fastball is compared to 5 years ago. As long as the 5th starter has to rely on the bullpen [and tangentially Narron's management of such] this team will continue to lose games in the 7th, 8th, and 9th innings.

Bullpens will blow some games every year.

This bullpens blows all games it seems.

I could have stopped before the word 'all' I suppose.

registerthis
05-09-2007, 11:13 AM
Very nice comment. "He is, what he is"...A fifth starter. He is over paid but for a fifth starter, he is not bad.

8 base runners in 5+ innings, plus a HR last night.

For the season, a WHIP over 1.50, giving up over a HR per game, and a GB/FB ratio of 0.52 (translation: that's deadly in a park that gives up a lot of home runs). He's sitting on a K/9 of around 5, which is pitiful.

The icing on the cake, he's only good for about 5 innings each night, which places further strain on our already-overtaxed bullpen.

He's not eyes-popping-out-of-your-head bad like 2005, but with the wafer-thin bullpen the Reds are carrying around these days, having a pitcher who gives up a lot of runs and baserunners, but can't get out of the 6th inning, is poison.

44Magnum
05-09-2007, 01:19 PM
Fork him!


Was this his last start?

We can only hope.

redsmetz
05-09-2007, 01:36 PM
Rather than start a new thread, I'll interject this. Here's Lonnie Wheeler's column from today's Post.


Milton's paradise is lost in Cincinnati
Column by The Post's Lonnie Wheeler

If he were Homer Bailey with those numbers, Reds fans would be all atwitter. They would point to the rough first innings and say the kid's a little jittery is all and needs to get settled in but, hey, he's been pretty good after that, hasn't he, and the earned run average is passable; the least we can do is cut the fellow some slack.

It's strange how the game works, how a post-teenager who has never been to the big leagues, never slipped off his shoes on a team plane to Milwaukee or the coast, can somehow be accorded more trust and patience than a persevering 31-year-old veteran with 87 victories and still, even after the three miserable seasons Eric Milton has had in Cincinnati, fewer defeats.

In Milton's case, the public trust expired sometime before his team-record home run and ERA totals were completed in 2005. The patience ran out sometime between then and the moment, Tuesday night, when Carlos Lee's first-inning home run dropped into the second-level bleacher deck at Great American Ball Park, 434 feet away from where Milton had left another 84-mph something or other.

The thing is, everybody in the place knew what Lee was going to do. The math isn't difficult. Lee's a big, strong cleanup hitter. Milton is a prolific home-run pitcher. Milton had given up first-inning runs - nine of them - in his four previous starts. He had retired the first two Houston Astros of the evening but walked the third, bringing up the inevitable.

And that - the seeming inevitability of it all - is the problem here. Some of the local disenchantment, no doubt, is the money that Milton makes ($9.8 million this year, the last of three he signed for as a free agent). Some of it is the beating he has taken (16-27 as a Red). But most of it is resignation, the dispiriting feeling, deep down in Cincinnati's gut, that the Reds are whipped when it's Milty's turn.

It's hard not to think that way when a guy has made five starts on the season and never finished an inning with the lead, as it was with Milton heading into Tuesday night. After only three of his 26 innings - the first three - had he not trailed.

It wasn't supposed to be this way when Dan O'Brien doled out $24 million to land a left-hander with a history of winning. There were concerns about Milton's penchant for giving up home runs, and how that would play out in a ballpark known for the same thing; but generally, the news was excellent.

The Reds had actually played the market. They had actually invested in a proven, expensive starting pitcher. It was all a big bravo.

The season before coming to Cincinnati, Milton had been 14-6 in Philadelphia, even while setting a National League record for left-handers by surrendering 40 homers. The Pennsylvanian's success seemed to demonstrate that he was not disadvantaged by the two knee surgeries he had undergone the two previous years.

Maybe, by now, the knees have caught up with him. Maybe it's the elbow, which was operated on last September. Whatever it is, Milton's pitches seldom exceed the mid-80s these days in radar-gun reality. The difference between his fastball and changeup is hardly enough for a hitter to concern himself with.

In Tuesday night's second inning, Milton threw five pitches to Houston rookie Hunter Pence. They were 82, 81, 83, 84 and 85 miles an hour. On the fifth, Pence tripled.

"I think anybody that threw 95 and hits 90 now, it's tough," said Reds reliever and chief cheerleader Eddie Guardado, who was a teammate of Milton's when the latter came up with Minnesota, full of vim and velocity. "He was dominating. Had a good changeup, good curveball, which he still does.

"But Milty doesn't throw 94 anymore. He's becoming a complete pitcher now. Gets the ball up a little bit. But Milty's going to come through because he's a professional, because of the way he works and the way he is up here (tapping his forehead)."

Milton is also a first-rate athlete, as he demonstrated in the fourth inning Tuesday night with a solid two-out, two-run single to pull the Reds within a run after they had fallen behind 4-0. In the fifth, they took the lead on a two-run homer by Ken Griffey Jr.

And in the sixth - this was important - they held it. Milton gave up a leadoff double to Jason Lane, but retired Pence, and then Kirk Saarloos took care of the next two batters. When the inning was over, it was the first all season, finally, that found Milton ahead.

But the Reds, again, failed to stay there. Rookie reliever Brad Salmon surrendered a two-run homer to Lance Berkman in the seventh, and the Astros beat Cincinnati for the sixth time in seven occasions this season.

"I gave up those four runs early, and that's tough to overcome," Milton reflected. "These first innings eat at you. They kill you. You give up three runs in the first and look at your teammates and they look deflated."

That, to his considerable credit, is the sort of frank accountability with which Milton has typically handled the difficulties that have had Great American fans booing him regularly. It's the same strength of character that has enabled him, time and again, to steel himself after another horrible start and somehow keep his team in the game.

"You don't show your emotions in front of the camera," the beleaguered pitcher said after the Reds' sixth loss in seven games. "I can go behind the dugout and show all the emotion I want, but you can't let everybody else see that.

"I want to throw things and beat up things, but I've got to stay calm. I've got to let my teammates know I can go up there and get outs and not be flustered over the first inning."

The net effect, invariably, is another disappointing, gritty and inconclusive performance. For the Reds, it's quite a pickle. Milton rarely pitches so badly that his job must be immediately snatched. And he makes all that cash.

But he makes the money either way, and the question is whether and what it will cost the Reds - in victories and, in turn, significant dollars - to keep him in the rotation. As it stands now, manager Jerry Narron seems inclined to do that.

"I think Milty's pitching better than he has in the past," Narron said Tuesday. "I think he's really working at changing speeds, really working at keeping the ball down. Hopefully he can continue to do that and pitch well for us."

Meanwhile, down in Louisville, there's Bailey with his 1.83 ERA, Phil Dumatrait with a 2.34 and Bobby Livingston at 2.82. If any of them would come to Cincinnati and pitch the way Milton has, who would complain?

And if none was given the chance, who wouldn't?

flyer85
05-09-2007, 01:38 PM
I see no evidence that Milton won't take his turn in LA this weekend.

jimbo
05-09-2007, 02:03 PM
He's not eyes-popping-out-of-your-head bad like 2005, but with the wafer-thin bullpen the Reds are carrying around these days, having a pitcher who gives up a lot of runs and baserunners, but can't get out of the 6th inning, is poison.

Numbers wise, he may not be where he was in 2005, but stuff wise he is. It's only a matter of time until his numbers get there.

redsfanfalcon
05-09-2007, 02:06 PM
He was slated to be the winning pitcher when he left the game, (albeit 4 runs given up) so chances are, he'll get another start at least.

Always Red
05-09-2007, 02:13 PM
I see no evidence that Milton won't take his turn in LA this weekend.

LA would be a good park for Milty to pitch in, actually. I'd expect him to do better in that park than GABP.

He hasn't pitched poorly enough to lose the job, yet.

There are bigger problems on this team right now than Eric Milton. Soon enough, he won't be around anymore, and we'll be complaining about someone else...

Caveman Techie
05-09-2007, 02:31 PM
There are bigger problems on this team right now than Eric Milton. Soon enough, he won't be around anymore, and we'll be complaining about someone else...


Truer words have never been spoken. :)

Milton is not the problem (right now), the Bullpen is in more need of help than our 5th starter.

Redsland
05-09-2007, 03:11 PM
Milton is not the problem…
If you think this team only has one problem, you aren't paying attention.

redlegs2370
05-09-2007, 03:26 PM
He kept us in the game after a bad first couple innings. I say get rid of a majority of our bullpen.

Meat, your exactly right. The bullpen's performance is the reason the Reds are burried at the bottom of the division not Eric Milton's performance.

CrackerJack
05-09-2007, 03:27 PM
If you think this team only has one problem, you aren't paying attention.

You wouldn't know it by reading Redzone. The obsessive scapegoating of Milton is the most tired subject ever now I think.

I'm completely over the fact it was a bad signing and that he gives up 3-4 runs for every 6 innings pitched.

jimbo
05-09-2007, 04:06 PM
Truer words have never been spoken. :)

Milton is not the problem (right now), the Bullpen is in more need of help than our 5th starter.

True, Milton is not THE problem, but he is A problem. Even more so considering how bad the bullpen is and that they have to throw 4-5 innings everytime Milton starts.

Hey Meat
05-09-2007, 04:44 PM
The problem to me is the trade. Also I still sit here and wonder why we didn't try harder to sign guys who came in and shored up the bullpen late in the year. Schoenweiss or Franklin.
Also, nothing against AA, but when I go all the way to Cincinnati in the first week of the season, I don't want to see a guy that I was watching here in Midland Texas as a not that good AA pitcher come in and load up the bases(Jared Burton).

Always Red
05-09-2007, 05:01 PM
Franklin was terrible here; interesting to see that he is doing well at the Dave Duncan Pitching Career Resurrection Center.

Schoeneweiss was definitely worth keeping, and if I recall WK tried, but SS declined to come back. Do I remember that correctly?

redsmetz
05-09-2007, 05:10 PM
Franklin was terrible here; interesting to see that he is doing well at the Dave Duncan Pitching Career Resurrection Center.

Schoeneweiss was definitely worth keeping, and if I recall WK tried, but SS declined to come back. Do I remember that correctly?

We did offer arbitration to Schoeneweiss (as well as Aurelia). Therefore we have two sandwich picks for them getting away. So we did make the effort and he could have chosen to stay. I have no idea what sort of money we offered.

KYRed
05-09-2007, 05:34 PM
Milty isn't the main problem on the team right now. That's very frustrating to say. Seeing his name penciled in as a starter is also deflating to me, and I honestly don't see how its not deflating to all of his teammates. He hasn't been horrible, but he's been nothing better than mediocre, and the team is guaranteed 4 innings of bullpen work and a need to score a lot of runs for the win.

registerthis
05-09-2007, 05:35 PM
There are bigger problems on this team right now than Eric Milton.

You've got to start somewhere.

Always Red
05-09-2007, 06:06 PM
You've got to start somewhere.

true, but I'd start with a bigger problem.

There's still plenty-o-time for Milty to pitch himself onto the waiver wire. Who knows, if he keeps being an average 5th starter, he may still have some value at the ASB, for a team with a really big payroll and not much starting pitching? Then you can swap him for a tuna sandwich, or a case of beer. I agree, his stuff is not there, and he's doing whatever he's doing with smoke and mirrors, and he's giving up early runs, but then again, he is keeping his team in the game. I know, he's vastly overpaid for a 5th SP, but that's life.

I think he's walking the tightrope, IMO. The first time he has an outing like he had in 2005 or early 2006, they'll probably cut him loose. But he hasn't done that yet. I'm not convinced Livingston or Dumatrait would do much better. Bailey, I would expect more out of, but he'll most probably come up overthrowing and wild, if ST is any indication.

jimbo
05-09-2007, 06:09 PM
true, but I'd start with a bigger problem.


Why not start with the problem with the easiest solution?

RichRed
05-09-2007, 06:16 PM
Milty to the DL. How convenient.

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/

Always Red
05-09-2007, 07:03 PM
Why not start with the problem with the easiest solution?

good point, looks like he did...:D