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runfreelrun
05-08-2007, 08:55 PM
This has to be his last start as a red, he gives us zero chance to win a game. So who replaces him? The first guy who jumps out is Bailey but I dont think that is going to happen so soon. So Bobby Livingston or Michael Gosling are our best bets, most likey Livingston, as either would be an upgrade over Milton. Dont bet againt it being Bailey as this team continues to struggle he would be a draw at the ticketgate.

hebroncougar
05-08-2007, 09:10 PM
IF they do get rid of Milty (and I don't think they will), I think Dumatrait is as good a bet as any. Or a reliever and move Saarloos into the rotation.

Reds Freak
05-08-2007, 09:12 PM
Jimmy Haynes is available..

reds44
05-08-2007, 09:13 PM
I don't think we can afford to lose Saarloos out of the pen.

I don't think it will be Homer, so Dumatrait or Livingston. My money would be on Livingston, although he's not pitching well in AAA tonight.

Degenerate39
05-08-2007, 09:16 PM
I'd go with Livingston right now. When June comes around call up Homer

Reds Freak
05-08-2007, 09:32 PM
I think this is all a pipe dream. Milton ain't goin anywhere. What are they gonna do with that $9 million? It's one thing to eat Cormier's salary but not Milton's .

RedsMan3203
05-08-2007, 11:33 PM
Posts/Threads like these make me :laugh:

Once again Milton gives us a STEADY and CONSISTENT performance.

5 innings, 7 hits, 4 runs and K's 4.

His past 5 has been the same.

5 innings, Around 7 hits (High is 10, Low is 3), 4 runs (high 4, low 3) and 3k's a game (high 6, low 1).

He isn't the problem.... He also isn't the soultion but we have to live with it.

Yes, everyone in the WORLD knows he isn't worth 9 million... But we have to deal with that.

Oh by the way, only given up 4 homers this year in 31.1 innings.

You fix our problems, when you fix the pen.

edabbs44
05-08-2007, 11:35 PM
Prediction: Homer comes up very soon. The FO is quickly losing the fan base and a promotion for Bailey will rejuvenate the city.

I really wouldn't be surprised.

Aronchis
05-08-2007, 11:36 PM
I think this is all a pipe dream. Milton ain't goin anywhere. What are they gonna do with that $9 million? It's one thing to eat Cormier's salary but not Milton's .

That isn't why Milton is here. His salary is decreasing by the day to eat.

The reason Milton is here because they don't feel Bailey is ready(awfull krate) and the rest aren't better than Milton. Sad but true.

jimbo
05-08-2007, 11:40 PM
Posts/Threads like these make me :laugh:

Once again Milton gives us a STEADY and CONSISTENT performance.

5 innings, 7 hits, 4 runs and K's 4.

His past 5 has been the same.

5 innings, Around 7 hits (High is 10, Low is 3), 4 runs (high 4, low 3) and 3k's a game (high 6, low 1).

He isn't the problem.... He also isn't the soultion but we have to live with it.

Yes, everyone in the WORLD knows he isn't worth 9 million... But we have to deal with that.

Oh by the way, only given up 4 homers this year in 31.1 innings.

You fix our problems, when you fix the pen.


Nobody is saying he is the main problem on this team. But you're not doing an already problematic pen any good when you have a starter who only averages 5 innings a game. His numbers may show for the first 5 or so weeks into the season that he may be "consistant", but his stuff shows that he is a walking time bomb. He has been quite lucky so far in that he hasn't had those games where he couldn't get out of the first few innings because even though he has, he is getting hit hard consistantly.

RedsMan3203
05-08-2007, 11:41 PM
The Pen has given up 49 runs in 84.1 innings.

That is our WORRY. Not Milton, Not starting pitching... Fix the pen, you fix this team.

Aronchis
05-08-2007, 11:44 PM
The Pen has given up 49 runs in 84.1 innings.

That is our WORRY. Not Milton, Not starting pitching... Fix the pen, you fix this team.

How does Loshe,Belisle and Milton create confidence? Sounds like weakness to me.

RedsMan3203
05-08-2007, 11:44 PM
Nobody is saying he is the main problem on this team. But you're not doing an already problematic pen any good when you have a starter who only averages 5 innings a game. His numbers may show for the first 5 or so weeks into the season that he may be "consistant", but his stuff shows that he is a walking time bomb. He has been quite lucky so far in that he hasn't had those games where he couldn't get out of the first few innings because even though he has, he is getting hit hard consistantly.

I'm not buying it.... Untill he goes out and throws like he has the last 2 years... Hit, Hit, Homer. Hit, Homer type of stuff then i'm not going to be worried about it.

Not EVERY starter HAS to go 6/7 innings... Thats Crazy..

I'll take those 5 innings, 7 hits, 4 runs, 3k's from my 5th starter every outing.

jimbo
05-08-2007, 11:52 PM
I'm not buying it.... Untill he goes out and throws like he has the last 2 years... Hit, Hit, Homer. Hit, Homer type of stuff then i'm not going to be worried about it.

Not EVERY starter HAS to go 6/7 innings... Thats Crazy..

I'll take those 5 innings, 7 hits, 4 runs, 3k's from my 5th starter every outing.

Sure, not every game. But it sure would be nice knowing Milton had a CHANCE to take you that deep. It is pretty much a given that Milton never will. And he's so bad early on that we have to warm-up relievers by the 4th inning and that taxes your bullpen even more.

It's not a matter of if he is going to explode, but a matter of when. Early last season he had a few nice starts and his stuff was decent. Ever since that DL visit, his fastballs have barely topped 85 and his breaking pitches have very little break. He's a disaster waiting to happen.

RedsMan3203
05-08-2007, 11:56 PM
Sure, not every game. But it sure would be nice knowing Milton had a CHANCE to take you that deep. It is pretty much a given that Milton never will. And he's so bad early on that we have to warm-up relievers by the 4th inning and that taxes your bullpen even more.

It's not a matter of if he is going to explode, but a matter of when. Early last season he had a few nice starts and his stuff was decent. Ever since that DL visit, his fastballs have barely topped 85 and his breaking pitches have very little break. He's a disaster waiting to happen.

I know what you are saying... Personally i've gotten to see 0 of his starts this year... So i'm not going up and down defending the guy...

I get the point....

But Milton RIGHT NOW, at this point in time... Is the LEAST of our worries... Once we fix what we need to fix (pen) then we can move onto other worries...

jimbo
05-09-2007, 12:02 AM
I know what you are saying... Personally i've gotten to see 0 of his starts this year... So i'm not going up and down defending the guy...

I get the point....

But Milton RIGHT NOW, at this point in time... Is the LEAST of our worries... Once we fix what we need to fix (pen) then we can move onto other worries...

And I totally understand your point also. All I'm saying is that just because it's the least of this team's worries, does not mean you should ignore it.

RedsMan3203
05-09-2007, 12:04 AM
Ignore it for now... There are bigger fish to fry.

Redsland
05-09-2007, 12:21 PM
The Pen has given up 49 runs in 84.1 innings.

That is our WORRY. Not Miltonů
49 runs in 84 1/3 innings is an ERA of 5.23. I'll conceded that that's a problem.


Once again Milton gives us a STEADY and CONSISTENT performance.

5 innings, 7 hits, 4 runs and K's 4.

His past 5 has been the same.

5 innings, Around 7 hits (High is 10, Low is 3), 4 runs (high 4, low 3) and 3k's a game (high 6, low 1).

He isn't the problemů
Four runs per five innings may be steady and consistent, but it's also a 7.20 ERA. That's an ERA nearly two full runs higher than the pen is giving up. So that's also a problem.

Slyder
05-09-2007, 12:54 PM
How's Elizardo Ramirez looked? Early last year he looked really good.

Redsland
05-09-2007, 12:59 PM
Inactive with shoulder stiffness.

RedsMan3203
05-09-2007, 02:20 PM
49 runs in 84 1/3 innings is an ERA of 5.23. I'll conceded that that's a problem.


Four runs per five innings may be steady and consistent, but it's also a 7.20 ERA. That's an ERA nearly two full runs higher than the pen is giving up. So that's also a problem.

While I agree it also needs fixed. As I said in another post, I haven't gotten to see any of Miltons starts and in some recaps I believe i've read where he was pulled out after 69 pitches, etc. He probaly could of gone longer, but JN Manages Milton better then any other arm on this team.

He takes Milton out at the right match up, and doesn't let the game run away.

Runs by Innings when Milton as pitched

1 - 11
2 - 1
3 - 2
4 - 2
5 - 2
6 - 3


So, really after the 1st inning he has only given up 10 runs total the rest of the game he has pitched.

So, if JN gives the guy a longer start to work with, another inning or so - his ERA would drop, and we'd see less of the pen.

NoteI'm in no way defending the guy - just saying i'd rather people get off his back.

Also, If we get down to do and Milton is the last thing we have to check off our list to worry about - we must be doing pretty damn good because he is last on the list right now.

DA BEAR
05-09-2007, 02:23 PM
Hi everyone i'm new here, but anyways i might try to move milton to the pen and cut one of the others. It would be worth a shot Milton has not pitched horribly recently but not great. If they did that they could maybe bring up a younger arm. They have to do something i am tired of watching the pen blow it again and again.

Redsland
05-09-2007, 03:06 PM
So, if JN gives the guy a longer start to work with, another inning or so - his ERA would drop, and we'd see less of the pen.
According to that chart you posted, if Jerry left Milton in another inning, Milton would give up three or four runs, so I'm not sure his ERA would fall (much). :evil:

Redsland
05-09-2007, 03:10 PM
Hi everyone i'm new here, but anyways i might try to move milton to the pen and cut one of the others.
Jerry Narron has stated that Milton isn't suited for the pen, because Milton needs too much time to warm up. The fact that his first inning of work is his worst would also give me pause.

As for your other thought, Milton is the posterboy for pitching dismality (new word!), so if anyone is going to be cut he gets my vote.

PuffyPig
05-09-2007, 03:27 PM
This has to be his last start as a red, he gives us zero chance to win a game.

While that may be your personal opinion, and may well be a good thought, there's zero chance that Reds management is even considering that move at this time.